brianv wrote:Ok, they find a strand of hair or a tooth and they say "Oh that's Joe Bloggs!" How the fuck do they know it's Joe Bloggs? Did Joe Bloggs previously and in foresight of his own demise submit himself for DNA profiling? Or did someone come to his house and take away his hairbrush and his underpants after the event of his death? Or did they have a sample of his blood on record? Did they have a sample of living tissue? I'm not sure about the whole DNA thing at all, could it be a hoax in itself?
edgewaters wrote:brianv wrote:Ok, they find a strand of hair or a tooth and they say "Oh that's Joe Bloggs!" How the fuck do they know it's Joe Bloggs? Did Joe Bloggs previously and in foresight of his own demise submit himself for DNA profiling? Or did someone come to his house and take away his hairbrush and his underpants after the event of his death? Or did they have a sample of his blood on record? Did they have a sample of living tissue? I'm not sure about the whole DNA thing at all, could it be a hoax in itself?
What I think is that if you were to dig in any given area in New York, as deep as the sub-basements of the WTC, you're likely to find teeth, bones, maybe even hair (but most of all, teeth) from tons of people. Mostly from the 1800s. Any given person from that era will likely have thousands of living relatives today, many in New York but some all across the US (and possibly abroad too). So, with enough samples of sufficient age, it would not be difficult to match up to whomever you wanted to.
omaxsteve wrote:My post, and my curiosity, was not intended to direct readers attention to the fact there were real victims.
I wholeheartedly believe that the great majority and of the alleged victims were total fabricated simulated non-entities.
I am equally certain that a few vics that were once living breathing people did not die as purported ; there were no planes, no crashes, and either none at all, or at most a small handful of people in the towers when they imploded.
I believe that that investigating the "reported" facts may help to determine the modus operandi of the whole scheme.
Since my background is in data analytics, I thought it may be interesting to look deeper into the false claims to see if there is a pattern.
For example we may discover that 99% of the airplane vicsims were said to have been identified by dna , but only 10% of the tower vicsims to have been identified through that method. What were the comparable numbers of "dna" identified vicsims for Pentagon employees vicsims versus those to have allegedly been on the non-existant flight 77?. How many, of the alleged vics were claimed to have beenidentified by body parts or boine fragments. (those may be a clue to which subset of the vicsims were "created" by using body parts from corpses taken from the morgue)
I think you are a touch paranoid, Hoi, if you feel that my purpose here is to "speculate against the evidence for fakery".
What drew me here in the first place was that it was at the time the only site that openly discussed the fact that what was shown on TV on 911 was nothing other than video fakery. You need not feel insecure that your vicsim report is being challenged, at least not by me. I think it is an amazing piece of research and I am a huge believer in the fact that were tons of fabricated vicsims that never existed prior to the event. My feeling that there were possibly a few "real" people who were either killed , or are now hiding under a different identity does not jeopardize the value of your research nor does it make me a "troll" trying to cast aspersions on the entire body of research.
This thread is titled "search for 911 remains" . my query was in response to the data that Heiwa posted regarding the numbers of vicsims identified and not identified. When perps commit a crime the clues they leave behind are often found in what they have done to try and "cover up" for their crime. In this case , what have they done to cover up for the lack of real victims?
They have obviously planted phony and/or fabricated evidence. I was wondering if anyone had more detailed information about the phony evidence that could be analyzed for patterns. That's all.
brianv wrote:Crimes where DNA is used as evidence : "There is a 100,000,000:1 chance that it belongs to the accused."
You go out and dig up some bones and have it DNA tested then try finding the relatives of the bone.
edgewaters wrote:brianv wrote:Crimes where DNA is used as evidence : "There is a 100,000,000:1 chance that it belongs to the accused."
You're talking about a match to a specific individual - not to anyone he might be related to. It's completely different. I doubt very much that they have samples from the actual victims, I bet they just have samples from the supposed victim's family, and all they have to do is find a related person who shares some common DNA.
Unless you believe they've got a toothbrush or whatever from every single victim, to do an exact match with. I kind of doubt that, given that the victims are imaginary.You go out and dig up some bones and have it DNA tested then try finding the relatives of the bone.
They do that. Look up "Cheddar Man" for an example. Some Neolithic tribesman they dig up and in the nearby village they find a few dozens of relatives. Surprising? Not really, if you understand that the billions of humans on the planet today all come from just a few millions back then, and there's been thousands of years of interbreeding in between where all the genetic material is getting swapped around. Even if we just cloned ourselves he'd probably still have 1 or 2 relatives nearby, never mind sexual reproduction.
One person from the 1800s will have many thousands of living relatives, and if you have tens of thousands of samples, you could find one that will be *related* to a person. Take a celebrity from the 1800s, and I'm sure there is someone on this forum who can trace their genealogy back to that person - possibly not direct descent, but even a tangential connection will do (a cousin of the individual or something like that in the direct line). Now take a few tens of thousands of 1800s people. You'll almost certainly be able to find at least one relative for *everyone* on this forum. That's more like how I'm thinking they're doing it.
They have a heap of human detritus from a few centuries of habitation, and all they have to do is find some common bit of DNA with the person posing as family. The source DNA wouldn't even have to be in their direct line ... the source could've had a cousin who was, for example. Or, heck, a grandparent's sister's cousin's uncle. All you have to have is a few common points in the DNA; not an exact match.
I imagine the biggest logistical headache here isn't finding DNA that *might* be related but finding people who will agree to pose as relatives, if only for a DNA sample.
hoi.polloi wrote:A very close friend of mine studies DNA and vouches for its reality. When I've challenged him on it, he's presented adequate evidence to me - in a magnanimous way that contrasts highly with anyone I've asked about suspicious sciences like CERN, satellites, space probes, terrorist "drills", etc. - that he personally identified proteins from it and that they are getting many many people to do so all over the world.
So whatever my word is worth to you brianv, I'd encourage you to look into it yourself too. DNA seems very real based on my investigations, though admittedly dubious as a criminal investigation "catch all" that TV may claim it is.
- "More human remains were found at the World Trade Center site on Wednesday. Crews made the discovery at 11 Water street" (...) The ME (Medical Examiner) is also investigating other remains that were found about two weeks ago on the roof of 90, West street."
- "Construction workers found 9 pieces of bone and tissue on a 20th-floor scaffolding on this building on West street." [9+2=11]
-"Workers have found 65 potential human remains at the World Trade Center site over the last couple of days..." [6+5=11]
-" Demolition workers found 74 new bone fragments on the roof of the Deutsche Bank over the weekend..." [7+4=11]
- "Crews continue to find human remains on the roof of the Deutsche Bank building, next to the Trade Center site, the medical examiner's office says 142 fragments were found, bringing to 598[5+9+8=22] the total of fragments found in the building..."
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