9/11 MEMORIAL SCAMS, VICSIMS, Etc

[SacredCowSlayer]

Todd was a hero even more so than those among us who used his name for personal gain. There is good and evil and he stood with our good angels. There is not much difference from the evil actions of those who declared war on our way of life and individuals in our country again, that took advantage of this tragedy for personal gain.

He will be a hero for all time.

Posted by: aw1123 | August 3, 2010 8:42 AM

Maybe I'm reading too much into this (or perhaps just don't understand it), but does this look like a passive aggressive snipe at another Sim beneficiary? Maybe evidence of infighting between payoff recipients.

[simonshack]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this (or perhaps just don't understand it), but does this look like a passive aggressive snipe at another Sim beneficiary? Maybe evidence of infighting between payoff recipients.

EXACTLY my thoughts, dear SCS, exactly my thoughts.

Your interpretation of those sentences really is the only reasonable / plausible one - what OTHER interpretation could there be? I see none.

[SacredCowSlayer]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this (or perhaps just don't understand it), but does this look like a passive aggressive snipe at another Sim beneficiary? Maybe evidence of infighting between payoff recipients.

EXACTLY my thoughts, dear SCS, exactly my thoughts.

Your interpretation of those sentences really is the only reasonable / plausible one - what OTHER interpretation could there be? I see none.

Simon,

At the risk of stating the obvious- wouldn't this be the most distasteful way imaginable to make such a comment? I mean really. . . on a tribute page? To me it is tantamount to a person roasting his own brother while delivering his father's eulogy . Even someone who believes the 9/11 lie would see something wrong with that!
To me this is just more ammo to use when explaining the 9/11 scam to people.

[hoi.polloi]

SacredCowSlayer, do you suppose this is documentation of one of the "fake settlements" happening here?

http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FCO ... CO.,%20L.P.

AEGIS INSURANCE SERVICES, INC., Liberty Insurance Underwriters, Inc., National Union Insurance Company of Pittsburgh, Nuclear Electric Insurance Limited, Certain Underwriters at Llloyds, (Syndicates 1255 and 1511), as subrogor of Consolidated Edison Company of New York, Inc. and Consolidated Edison Company of New York, Inc., Plaintiffs-Appellants, v. 7 WORLD TRADE COMPANY, L.P., Defendant-Cross-Defendant-Cross-Claimant-Third Party-Plaintiff-Appellee, Silverstein Development Corp., Silverstein Properties, Inc., Defendants-Cross-Defendants-Cross-Claimants-Appellees, Tishman Construction Corporation, Defendant-Cross-Defendant-Appellee, Office of Irwin G. Cantor, P.C., Defendant-Cross-Defendant-Third Party Defendant-Appellee.
United States Court of Appeals, Second Circuit.
Decided: December 4, 2013.

Looks like it involves a Cantor ... presumably not of Cantor Fitzgerald, right?

[omaxsteve]

*

Our member "omaxsteve" registered here back in March 29, 2010.

His first post went like this:

Hi,

I have been reading for a while but have not had a reason to post as of yet.

I firmly believe in TV fakery , no planes, and for the most part that many of the victims are pure simulations.

My problem, is what about those victime that in fact really did exist. My sister is visiting from Maryland, and she knows (or knew) a victim who supposedly crashed in the plane at the pentagon. His name was Todd Reuben. In fact two weeks before sept 11, she sat at the same table as Todd Reuben and his wife at a wedding reception.

Now, excuse me, omaxsteve - but the questions I have (over FIVE years later) are the following :

Have you followed up this claim by your sister since then?
Any news about Todd Reuben's son - and if he has recovered from this terrible 'polio' condition / deformation?


http://www.legacy.com/guestbooks/guestb ... 823&page=4

Seriously now, for how long is this silly farce supposed to go on?
WHY are virtually ALL the "9/11 victims" portraits blatantly photoshopped?

"TODD REUBEN" - on the National 9/11 Pentagon Memorial:

http://pentagonmemorial.org/explore/bio ... d-h-reuben
" Todd was an avid fan of all local Washington sports teams, particularly the Redskins, Capitals, DC United and Maryland Terrapins. His greatest sports commitment, however, was coaching his cherished 11-year-old twin boys, Jason and Jeffrey, in basketball and soccer, at which they both now excel. "

"Carole and Jesse Reuben go to the Pentagon Memorial so often that they've become volunteers to help visitors."
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 17094.html

Simon: Yes I followed up but led to a dead end. My sister says was only able to tell me that she heard the wife and two children (twins) moved to Florida soon after the event. My niece attending the same school as the Reuben twins but was not in the same grade and never saw them after the day their father allegedly died in the plane that was said to have crashed in the Pentagon. Like the majority of people I know (whether Jewish or not) neither my sister, nor any of her family (husband and three kids) are even remotely open to the possibility that the whole 9-11 event and specifically the plane crashes, as you and I both know, were nothing more than a made for TV movie.

regards,

Steve O.

[hoi.polloi]

Simon: Yes I followed up but led to a dead end. My sister says was only able to tell me that she heard the wife and two children (twins) moved to Florida soon after the event. My niece attending the same school as the Reuben twins but was not in the same grade and never saw them after the day their father allegedly died in the plane that was said to have crashed in the Pentagon. Like the majority of people I know (whether Jewish or not) neither my sister, nor any of her family (husband and three kids) are even remotely open to the possibility that the whole 9-11 event and specifically the plane crashes, as you and I both know, were nothing more than a made for TV movie.

regards,

Steve O.

Excuse me, but what school was that, if you don't mind me asking? It's public information by now, right? Also, if you please, are you reiterating these "twins" were seen before their father allegedly died? Is there a yearbook you could acquire?

The "father" looks pretty darn fake. Are you sure there was one and he looked like that sloppy botched image? Was he ever seen at school?

You are presumably a grown adult, Steve O. and it should be alright for you to patiently ask questions about this, even if little by little, right?

[Critical Mass]

Where was this wedding reception where the family were allegedly seen at (and whose wedding was it)?

Have you managed to locate any photo's from this wedding... if your Sister, 'Todd' & Vivian were all there then there should be photo's?

I've found the Florida voter records for Vivian (and some other fellow who lives with her).

[fbenario]

Like the majority of people I know (whether Jewish or not) neither my sister, nor any of her family (husband and three kids) are even remotely open to the possibility that the whole 9-11 event and specifically the plane crashes, as you and I both know, were nothing more than a made for TV movie.

You've got at least a double (and possibly a triple) negative in there, which renders the sentence either meaningless, or the opposite of what I think you are trying hastily to say. Still, it is so confusingly written I can't even be sure I'm right that it is poorly done.

[Selene]

Like the majority of people I know (whether Jewish or not) neither my sister, nor any of her family (husband and three kids) are even remotely open to the possibility that the whole 9-11 event and specifically the plane crashes, as you and I both know, were nothing more than a made for TV movie.

You've got at least a double (and possibly a triple) negative in there, which renders the sentence either meaningless, or the opposite of what I think you are trying hastily to say. Still, it is so confusingly written I can't even be sure I'm right that it is poorly done.

It's unreadable (coming from me ... ).

But it touches upon a sensitive spot.

I reckon that 98% of my social surroundings sheeplishly follows the "official story" on 9/11 or at least does think planes...

Some I have been able to convince but the number of ignorant sheeple is much bigger...

I hope I am an exception.

[SacredCowSlayer]

Like the majority of people I know (whether Jewish or not) neither my sister, nor any of her family (husband and three kids) are even remotely open to the possibility that the whole 9-11 event and specifically the plane crashes, as you and I both know, were nothing more than a made for TV movie.

You've got at least a double (and possibly a triple) negative in there, which renders the sentence either meaningless, or the opposite of what I think you are trying hastily to say. Still, it is so confusingly written I can't even be sure I'm right that it is poorly done.

It's unreadable (coming from me ... ).

But it touches upon a sensitive spot.

I reckon that 98% of my social surroundings sheeplishly follows the "official story" on 9/11 or at least does think planes...

Some I have been able to convince but the number of ignorant sheeple is much bigger...

I hope I am an exception.

In my experience it is best to start out with simple things when introducing a person to media fakery.

Traumatic events have a powerful affect on the brain. The hoaxers count on this to keep people from exercising any critical thinking about a given event.

So I like to start out with people by asking "if the news media and government were caught blatantly lying to you, they would lose their credibility right?" Once they agree I show them the LAX dummy video. Nine times out of ten I get a "are you sh!tting me!" kind of response. That opens the door wide open, and then I show them Robbie Parker smiling and laughing. That is always followed by a nearly identical response.

At that point I have established credibility for myself and simultaneously crushed whatever faith they had in the media. Most of the time they ask me for more examples, but I tell them to watch "We Need to Talk About Sandy Hook" and get back to me later.

When they do it is almost always accompanied with wanting to talk about it or them wanting to know what other events have been staged. That's when I tell them to go to cluesforum.

So here is where the gained credibility (usually some pre existing cred to be sure too) comes in handy. I warn them before going to CF that they will see things that will tempt them to scoff (I know I nearly did when I first saw questions about AIDS, nukes, etc.) but to understand that there are a lot of things under scrutiny at CF that we have always just accepted without ever really thinking about it.

It never fails that they contact me later saying something like "OMG 9/11 was faked?!?! And you never told me?!?!". They of course follow this up by admitting that they would have said I was crazy if I had told them at the start.

Note: Time and place is key. And one on one conversations are best. People are generally terrified of being different, so they won't even be able to think straight if they sense they are being watched and judged. That should go without saying.

Also Note: The 1 in 10 who believe the LAX dummy is real. . . they don't pass go and certainly don't collect $200. Good oxygen is simply wasted on such people.

I only post this because another forum member and I have been corresponding about this issue, and I occurred to me that others may benefit from it as well.

That said, I recognize this might be the wrong thread for it. So if it needs to be moved then fine by me. It can be picked up elsewhere. I'm certainly curious to hear about the experience of others in this regard.

[SacredCowSlayer]

SacredCowSlayer, do you suppose this is documentation of one of the "fake settlements" happening here?

http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FCO ... CO.,%20L.P.

AEGIS INSURANCE SERVICES, INC., Liberty Insurance Underwriters, Inc., National Union Insurance Company of Pittsburgh, Nuclear Electric Insurance Limited, Certain Underwriters at Llloyds, (Syndicates 1255 and 1511), as subrogor of Consolidated Edison Company of New York, Inc. and Consolidated Edison Company of New York, Inc., Plaintiffs-Appellants, v. 7 WORLD TRADE COMPANY, L.P., Defendant-Cross-Defendant-Cross-Claimant-Third Party-Plaintiff-Appellee, Silverstein Development Corp., Silverstein Properties, Inc., Defendants-Cross-Defendants-Cross-Claimants-Appellees, Tishman Construction Corporation, Defendant-Cross-Defendant-Appellee, Office of Irwin G. Cantor, P.C., Defendant-Cross-Defendant-Third Party Defendant-Appellee.
United States Court of Appeals, Second Circuit.
Decided: December 4, 2013.

Looks like it involves a Cantor ... presumably not of Cantor Fitzgerald, right?

Hoi,

Well one of those questions is easy. The defendant Irwin G. Cantor does not appear to have an affiliation with Cantor Fitzgerald. He is evidently a consultant involved in large building projects like WTC7 which was at the center of this litigation.

The other question is more difficult. Evidence of settlements/payoffs? Not from what I can tell by reading through the case you linked. It would take too long to go into the details of that case as it is rather mind numbing.

But essentially the Federal District Court dismissed the case on summary judgement because the events of 9/11 were not foreseeable (planes causing WTC 1&2 to collapse which damaged WTC 7 causing its collapse ). Of course the court parrots the government/media version of events with zero departure. The plaintiffs appealed to the Second Circuit and they affirmed the dismissal on slightly different grounds.

So, taking it at face value it (at least on the surface) appears that the plaintiffs (Con Ed power supply and its insurers) did not prevail and did not win any damages. Whether they got reimbursed another way and/or the litigation was just a show is another story.

I'm going to explore the possibilities of that last sentence when I get some time.

[Selene]

Great Guide To Get To Know Truths!

(quoted below, freaking #phones).

Be praised that your environment is more open to these things.

I come from a culture where it's more accepted to talk about anal sex at the dinner table with grandma present than about the crude possibility that man never stepped nor will step on the Moon...

So yes, you're completely right and please post a link to that LAX dummy.

My friends are ok. It's the bigger circle that is sheeplish in Seattle, in my case.

Like the majority of people I know (whether Jewish or not) neither my sister, nor any of her family (husband and three kids) are even remotely open to the possibility that the whole 9-11 event and specifically the plane crashes, as you and I both know, were nothing more than a made for TV movie.

You've got at least a double (and possibly a triple) negative in there, which renders the sentence either meaningless, or the opposite of what I think you are trying hastily to say. Still, it is so confusingly written I can't even be sure I'm right that it is poorly done.

It's unreadable (coming from me ... ).

But it touches upon a sensitive spot.

I reckon that 98% of my social surroundings sheeplishly follows the "official story" on 9/11 or at least does think planes...

Some I have been able to convince but the number of ignorant sheeple is much bigger...

I hope I am an exception.

In my experience it is best to start out with simple things when introducing a person to media fakery.

Traumatic events have a powerful affect on the brain. The hoaxers count on this to keep people from exercising any critical thinking about a given event.

So I like to start out with people by asking "if the news media and government were caught blatantly lying to you, they would lose their credibility right?" Once they agree I show them the LAX dummy video. Nine times out of ten I get a "are you sh!tting me!" kind of response. That opens the door wide open, and then I show them Robbie Parker smiling and laughing. That is always followed by a nearly identical response.

At that point I have established credibility for myself and simultaneously crushed whatever faith they had in the media. Most of the time they ask me for more examples, but I tell them to watch "We Need to Talk About Sandy Hook" and get back to me later.

When they do it is almost always accompanied with wanting to talk about it or them wanting to know what other events have been staged. That's when I tell them to go to cluesforum.

So here is where the gained credibility (usually some pre existing cred to be sure too) comes in handy. I warn them before going to CF that they will see things that will tempt them to scoff (I know I nearly did when I first saw questions about AIDS, nukes, etc.) but to understand that there are a lot of things under scrutiny at CF that we have always just accepted without ever really thinking about it.

It never fails that they contact me later saying something like "OMG 9/11 was faked?!?! And you never told me?!?!". They of course follow this up by admitting that they would have said I was crazy if I had told them at the start.

Note: Time and place is key. And one on one conversations are best. People are generally terrified of being different, so they won't even be able to think straight if they sense they are being watched and judged. That should go without saying.

Also Note: The 1 in 10 who believe the LAX dummy is real. . . they don't pass go and certainly don't collect $200. Good oxygen is simply wasted on such people.

I only post this because another forum member and I have been corresponding about this issue, and I occurred to me that others may benefit from it as well.

That said, I recognize this might be the wrong thread for it. So if it needs to be moved then fine by me. It can be picked up elsewhere. I'm certainly curious to hear about the experience of others in this regard.

[Apache]

Going back to Suria Clarke, one of the UK victims. I researched quite a few of them a while ago and I made some notes about 2 particularly strange paragraphs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/s ... ghter-died

From the above article I focused in on this bit as a particularly nasty bit of psychopathy:

"I knew that somewhere in that was my daughter, but I was there six weeks later, staying in a hotel way up in New York, but you could see the steam and the smoke still rising from there, so the temperature levels down below would have been very, very high. Science just told you. Things went straight down the middle and would have been going down through a gigantic coffee grinder and then been being cooked, really, I suppose."

Science just told you?

Things? What things? People, elevators, office furniture, their daughter?

A gigantic coffee grinder?

"been being cooked, really, I suppose." Jesus. Who talks like that about their dead daughter? No-one.

Then Alex Clarke is quoted as saying a very strange thing (if the above isn't strange enough):

In a way, you say, 'I never said goodbye' – and I never said goodbye – but of course young women go out and have dreadful road accidents and do things like that.

Really? Do they? Fascinating.

My advice to the journo who wrote the above - try harder.

[SacredCowSlayer]

Take the equinox challenge and bring forth ANY home video or any video footage of the 9/11 Victims 3000 ( times minimal 3 home videos some where on the planet) .... 9000 should be out there at least! ... Should be an easy task.

Looking into NYPD lady cop hero Moira Smith (see page 60 of this thread), I came across this interview with her surviving 'husband' and 'daughter' from 2011, which contains what is supposed to be a few short home movie clips of this vicsim. Brief video snippets of Moira appear at 1:26, 1:46, and 4:26. Check it out:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/911-patricia-smith-girl-red-dress-remembers-police/story?id=14478523#.T7SvzJhuHzI

[sorry- wasn't able to imbed properly]

To be clear, I am not suggesting she was a real victim. Moira Smith does not appear in the Social Security Death Index- although her body was reported as recovered in 2002. Also, a basic internet search turned up ZERO records of this particular 'Moira Smith' (nee Reddy) pre-911. I find that very suspicious, especially given that her official tribute describes her receiving the Distinguished Duty Medal for some sort of bravery involving a derailed subway back in 1991...

Well today I saw an article about this particular Sim and her "husband". Evidently he sent back the award that was given his "wife" (posthumously) because he was so offended over Bruce/ Kaitlin Jenner being given the same award. See http://nypost.com/2015/11/15/family-of- ... yn-jenner/

Are these survivor roles for life? Or maybe just the mid a high visibility sim "families"?

There can be little doubt about where the DHS money is going. It truly must be Psyop Central.

[Critical Mass]

For those who have been following the bizarre 'shut down' & 'zombification' of the Voices of 9/11 Memorial site this year you may be interested to know that...



Why they appear not to have bothered informing anyone they were doing this (or why the 'shut down' had to take place at the same time as the Cantor Fitzgerald site. Also why were there were a large number of new links to vicsims after the 'shut down'?) I will leave to the readers speculation.


Either way from what I can determine the new site is slower & makes acquiring & investigating imagery far more difficult (photo's have to uploaded & viewed one at a time now) compared with the previous one (which was already overly slow & difficult).

I suppose this means I'll never get to quite finish my imagery collection from the previous site... I had been (painstakingly) downloading all imagery from that site but had only managed to get up to & finish the M victims. I'll upload those early next year for future researchers.


PS

Shortly after first joining Cluesforum I did make it a (probably rather emotional) goal of mine to 'close the Voices' site... I'm not too sure if this really counts as a win or not but, fuck it, let's take it.