9/11 Vicsim Index/DNA databank

The notion of 'thousands of victims' was crucial to generate universal public outrage. However, having 3000 angry families breathing down their necks was never part of the perps' demented plan. Our ongoing analyses and investigations suggest that NO one died on 9/11.

Postby Surcouf on January 25th, 2010, 11:22 pm

hoi.polloi Posted on Jan 25 2010, 02:56 PM

...Maybe there are some people who claim to know people who died ...



I do know in person someone who wrote privately in November 2006 (I have the letter written from his own hand, translated here) : " ... However, in the airplane [AA 77 - editor's note], there was the brother of one of my friends of New York city (I went on his grave two years ago)..."

I will take the chance one of those days to ask him the name of this person and location of the grave ...

It came to my mind that simulating graves on a large scale may not be that easy. Along with the vicsim list, maybe should we try to establish the exhaustive list of burial places for all those ghosts ?
Everything might not be faked ...
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Postby brianv on January 25th, 2010, 11:44 pm

Surcouf @ Jan 25 2010, 11:22 PM wrote:
hoi.polloi Posted on Jan 25 2010, 02:56 PM

...Maybe there are some people who claim to know people who died ...



I do know in person someone who wrote privately in November 2006 (I have the letter written from his own hand, translated here) : " ... However, in the airplane [AA 77 - editor's note], there was the brother of one of my friends of New York city (I went on his grave two years ago)..."

I will take the chance one of those days to ask him the name of this person and location of the grave ...

It came to my mind that simulating graves on a large scale may not be that easy. Along with the vicsim list, maybe should we try to establish the exhaustive list of burial places for all those ghosts ?


Do it tonight Sur!
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Postby antipodean on January 26th, 2010, 2:36 am

Maybe there are some people who claim to know people who died - names of which don't exist on the entire Internet, let alone any memorial.



As I've already said before, I know someone who say they knew someone who died in WTC1 & they worked for UBS, unfortunately they only remember their christian name, but know the full name of their fiance, who (don't laugh) escaped the South Tower. & there is nothing on them on the internet.

So this victim would have attended the Risk Waters Conference. Who themselves would have hidden behind the privacy mask, in not releasing the names of attendees, outside of Risk Waters's own staff.

A pattern may emerge on which companies these untraceable victims worked for.
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Postby hoi.polloi on January 27th, 2010, 10:34 am

should we try to establish the exhaustive list of burial places for all those ghosts ?



Yes, if we could start to collect addresses to add to this database, we might begin this laborious task.

However, given we know they know what we're doing, we should brace ourselves for the most convincing lies yet. Our experience with liars should help us plod forth and collect the data, despite obstacles, and then we actually have a body of data to reflect on and chew (and maybe start traveling a bit to confirm).

Before this index is created, it may be overly difficult.

Granted, this is a momentous task. But I am confident we can do it if we put our minds to it.
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Postby hoi.polloi on January 27th, 2010, 10:39 am

As I've already said before, I know someone who say they knew someone who died in WTC1 & they worked for UBS, unfortunately they only remember their christian name, but know the full name of their fiance, who (don't laugh) escaped the South Tower. & there is nothing on them on the internet.

So this victim would have attended the Risk Waters Conference. Who themselves would have hidden behind the privacy mask, in not releasing the names of attendees, outside of Risk Waters's own staff.

A pattern may emerge on which companies these untraceable victims worked for.



Yes, I too know a few people who are unwilling to provide details. These people have played with my trust and sometimes acted in highly suspicious ways strictly around 9/11 whereas every other subject they talk about is like any person. It is disorienting at first, but ultimately it makes sense. People who are lying about this must have an anchor in true honesty or they wouldn't have the capacity to lie about a specific issue. In avoiding comparison of their truth to their lies, I am unable to make an assessment about what they say.

Plain and simple, deception is deception. And it starts with people lying to those that trust them. When that trust is broken, the lie is avoided rather than retracted, because in their minds, it must continue to be effective to everyone who still might believe them.
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Postby idschmyd on January 28th, 2010, 1:25 am

On people who knew people. Last week, a client not called Rita claimed that she used to work with someone who was killed in the Madrid Event. She said his name was Jos? Luis and he worked with her at Caja Madrid. There’s only one Jos? Luis on the lists, a seventeen year old called Betencourt, or Tenesaca Betencourt, depending on the list. I saw Rita the next day and, with some decorum, asked her how old Jos? Luis was. She immediately said 'not young', and guessed he was around 30-40. I asked if she was sure about the name, and she said she was. I asked if she had attended the funeral. She said that she had been pregnant in hospital at the time but her colleagues had attended. I asked if she had ever really seen him, perhaps touched him. She said yes, seemed slightly sheepish, perhaps unsure where my questions were going, perhaps insulted by them, perhaps entering that state cashiers enter as they’re handing over way too much change. Anyway, JL wasn’t on the list.

I met Rita again this week. She said she had emailed a former colleague and confirmed the name was not Jos? Luis, it was Jos? Miguel Valderrama. He was 26, which surprised her because she remembered him as? she used the word ‘father’. I suppose ‘fatherly type’? Seems she had been informed not reminded of this character.

JMV is on the lists, with El Pais adding the surname ‘Lopez’. The pics:

ImageImage

The blurbs give his age and place of work, gf name (Roc?o) and some bits and bobs.

Not sure what’s going on with Rita, but I suppose for the moment that she’s not consciously toying with perceptions. This is pdf file of a note from the Fed of Financial Services to members of Caja Madrid dated March 18th 2004, exactly a week after the campaign launch. I don’t know yet if Rita saw it at the time. At the end you see a long list of testimonies from JMV’s work colleagues saying what a great chap he was, interspersed with poetry and anecdotes. Many of the comments suggest a childlike and joyful man, even the letter refers to his youthfulness ('fatherly type', ‘not young’, '30-40'??).

First impression of the letter is heavy weight propaganda bent on making this prefabbed sprout a reality. There’s a largely functional translation below should you wish.

Rita is a friendly lady, slim, wide-eyed, strung like a gazelle, a political but comely smile. We meet again next week. I’m thinking of putting together some mug shots to see if she can identify JMV. Any other ideas for a continuation? Stress positions? Perhaps I should leave her alone.

Letter from "Las Secciones Sindicales de CC.OO., ACCAM, UGT, Alternativa Sindical y CSICA en Caja"

For us at CajaMadrid, the attack has been particularly hard. In this massacre we have lost a colleague and various relatives of employees; at the same time, six members of La Caja have been injured. On behalf of the staff, we offer our sincerest respect and commiserations ? We put ourselves again at your disposal and will do everything that it is our hands to do. We have set up [poor choice?] an account for contributions for the thousands of victims of this massacre, that will help them to deal with the various circumstances that come from a situation like this. The account number is?. We encourage you all to give, although we know that no economic help will erase the profound imprint of this event, especially for the more than two hundred families that have lost loved-ones forever.

As we have said, among the fatally wounded we find our colleague, MJV, who worked in the building in Plaza Celenque in Madrid, in 0735-Activos Adjudicados. JM was 25. An economist, he joined the company in 2000. A good worker and colleague, he had brilliant professional prospects ahead of him. Sensitive to his surroundings, he was one of those who keep one step ahead when circumstances demand. This is why he had no doubts about going to Galicia to help with ‘chapapote’ [clean up after Prestige oil spill of 2002, an emotionally charged event; just chant ‘nunca m?s’ everyone knows what you’re talking about.]

Also, he was a candidate in the last elections of the union, to which he had been affiliated since the beginning of his professional career with Caja, convinced of the necessity for staff to organise themselves and the role that unions must play in modern working relations.

JMV brought together in his personality all the best values of a youth that is not always judged fairly: nobility, generosity, high vision, solidarity and commitment, as much as permanent kindness and a smile that rubbed off on everyone. His hopes and dreams for himself with his parents, his girlfriend and his friends, have been tragically cut short.

The representatives of the workers at the Council of Admin have suggested for this Organ[ ?? translation breakdown] that the name JMV be given to one of the Social Work initiatives with a permanent character, such as a facility or a grant? The Council unanimously supports the suggestion.

But without doubt, it is JM’s colleagues who can best speak about JM. We shall let them speak, as a reminder and a tribute to our companion and to the rest of the victims of this brutal massacre.


Followed by gushing tributes aplenty.
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Postby simonshack on January 28th, 2010, 2:20 am

Idschmyd,

Please copy and paste your extremely interesting last post into the 11-M thread :
http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... c=55&st=30

Thanks!

Do not delete it from here, though - as it is very much on topic with the vicsim discourse - and the ways the "reality" of fake identities gets diffused. I have read all of the Caja form-letter and it all sounds sooo familiar - appeals for donations and all...:

"La cuenta es la 20380603266030000045. Animamos a todos a contribuir"

Also, the description of their 'lost employee' is straight out of the 9/11 memorial book:
"Jos? Miguel reun?a en su persona los mejores valores de una juventud a la que no siempre se juzga con justicia: nobleza, generosidad, altura de miras, solidaridad, compromiso... as? como una bondad y sonrisa permanentes, que contagiaba a los dem?s."

I'll attempt a short translation of this form-letter (of the Spanish BANK 'CAJA MADRID') which describes their 'lost son' :

"The persona of Jos? Miguel united the best values of the sort of youth we do not always rate with justice : nobility, generosity, far-reaching views, solidarity, commitment...as well as a kindness and a permanent smile, contagious to most people."
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby idschmyd on January 28th, 2010, 2:58 am

simonshack @ Jan 28 2010, 02:20 AM wrote: Idschmyd,

Please copy and paste your extremely interesting last post into the 11-M thread :
http://z6.invisionfree.com/Reality_Shac ... c=55&st=30

Thanks!

Do not delete it from here, though - as it is very much on topic with the vicsim discourse - and the ways the "reality" of fake identities gets diffused. I have read all of the Caja form letter and it all sounds sooo familiar - appeals for donations and all...:

"La cuenta es la 20380603266030000045. Animamos a todos a contribuir"

Also, the description of their lost employee is straight out of the 9/11 memorial book:
"Jos? Miguel reun?a en su persona los mejores valores de una juventud a la que no siempre se juzga con justicia: nobleza, generosidad, altura de miras, solidaridad, compromiso... as? como una bondad y sonrisa permanentes, que contagiaba a los dem?s."


No prob. It's an interesting moment. I have another friend who insists her daughter was two years above a girl at school called Marta whose mother died. The daughters may have travelled on the same bus. This friend is convinced of the death and carnage. She felt it. "It was all around you," she says. Someone recently blurted 'but we have the bodies!' Where, for the love of god, do we have the bodies?

Illusions anchored to real sensations. We were all on that train.
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Postby hoi.polloi on January 28th, 2010, 5:17 pm


Illusions anchored to real sensations. We were all on that train.



The burning flesh smells, the chaos, the atmosphere of war, of Dante's inferno. It was just like Dante's inferno ... to hell and back ...

Self-directed, self-delusional story telling. Auto-propaganda. We must have patience with it. It is a significant factor.
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Postby fbenario on January 29th, 2010, 3:37 am

hoi.polloi 4 Jan 28 2010, 11:17 AM wrote:

Illusions anchored to real sensations. We were all on that train.



The burning flesh smells, the chaos, the atmosphere of war, of Dante's inferno. It was just like Dante's inferno ... to hell and back ...

Self-directed, self-delusional story telling. Auto-propaganda. We must have patience with it. It is a significant factor.


It's amazing how strong the power of suggestion is. You spoonfeed the public fake images, tell them how much 'death' resulted from the image shown, and everyone swears that they 'know' it happened.

Mushroom clouds at Hiroshima
Landing modules on the moon
Planes flying into buildings on 9/11
Trains in Madrid
Nightclub in Bali
Subways in London
Underwear in Detroit
Miniature Duomo in Italy

Why are so few of us comfortable with the conclusion that NOTHING shown to us in mainstream media is trustworthy? I'm happy to learn that, but no one else wants to admit it. They are all SO comfortable in the warm embrace of believing that our respected American institutions, both government and media, would never lie to us. OF COURSE they are acting in good faith.
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Postby D.Duck on January 29th, 2010, 10:37 pm

I feel the same way. I question everything in the news now. It's impossible to know what to believe.



Sunshine,

Its not impossible to know what to believe.

You have to see it as a drinking problem.

Let me explain:

You just put 100.000 people with a drinking problem on an island and give them access to tons of alcohol.

All kinds of problems would happen and they would try to solve them when their brain is dumbed down with alcohol and we all know how that will work,lol.

If you have 100.000 people on an island capable of critical thinking and the same problems came up, they will solve them in a different way, much better in my opinion.

Now, we have a world population that is dumbed down more then a guy with just a drinking problem cos of media, school, cool aid, fast food and I can name 1000 more but you know what I mean.

The only thing that attracts a guy with a drinking problem is alcohol.

The only thing that attracts people of the world is a cell phone that makes pancakes and they don't understand that they have to go to rehab to get back their access to critical thinking.

The biggest fear both of them have , is to see the world with the reality glasses on.

So if you want to sell the stuff we are researching you have to treat people and see people as alcoholics and give them time to sober up or send them to rehab and that is http://www.septemberclues.info/ .

Dr.Duck, Dr. Hoi and Dr.Shack will take care of you. If you are a hard nut to crack you will get into special treatment by Dr.Ozzy, Dr.Fred and Dr.Brianv,lol.

People will probably do as most people do when they come to rehab and that is to fall back to their comfort zone and start to drink again as soon as they get out and that will happen 3 to 5 times until they get it.

So if you have access to full critical thinking you will know what to believe.


Quack
D.Duck

BTW: Hey, I just found out we don't have many sisters at the rehab.
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Postby hoi.polloi on January 30th, 2010, 11:32 am

Any vicsim data at all that is left out of the Index would be useful. Addresses of grave sites, etc.

If anyone could just spend a couple days collecting one site of allegedly all the vicsims and post it in a spreadsheet, then we have that much more investigative power to those interested in cracking this.
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