9/11 Vicsim Index/DNA databank

The notion of 'thousands of victims' was crucial to generate universal public outrage. However, having 3000 angry families breathing down their necks was never part of the perps' demented plan. Our ongoing analyses and investigations suggest that NO one died on 9/11.

Postby fred on April 6th, 2010, 10:32 pm

Yes, it's almost as if these tedious posters are just hired shills: lowly PR hacks following a written set of instructions.

But of course the very idea that there could be dishonest stooges paid to post messages anonymously on message boards boggles the mind. Is that even possible? /

Surely OmaxSteve, our trustworthy and loyal supporter, deserves the benefit of any doubt.

Image

Clearly there is something unusual about this forum that attracts so many honest Canadian friends and relatives of those who knew vicsims. The fact that they follow the now-familiar pattern summarized by Hoi Polloi is assuredly a coincidence; or perhaps a sign that the message board itself is culturally biased.

[I once saw a Michael Moore film about Canadians, and he proved conclusively that Canadians don't even lock their doors. They may seem just like us, but they are not not like us.]

We must assume that OmaxSteve is telling the truth (what kind of man would tell a lie about his own sister?) and that his sister, real or imaginary, is also telling the truth.

Clearly we should heed his excellent concerns, and those of his cohort, and abandon our research in favor of something more suiting Joe Public and the Canadian concern trolls.

How indeed will this information take root in Canada if we offend the very friends and families of the vicsims themselves? To continue as we have been is not just unsporting, it's unseemly. We should all feel very, very ashamed of ourselves for entertaining the thought that OmaxSteve and his make-believe sister are lying shills.

What possible motive would they have to come here and lie?

[Canada, an independent country positioned above the United States geographically and culturally, boasts an excellent social insurance scheme that provides an outstanding standard of living for even its dimmest citizens, who, we can assume, would be loony to harbor any desire for money.]
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Postby fred on April 6th, 2010, 10:59 pm

omaxsteve 4 Apr 6 2010, 07:23 AM wrote:
C) My sister is lying and/or I ( a Canadian citizen ) am a "shill"

What I don't understand is why you are so quick, both in my case and others to choose option C?

... I am not a researcher. I do not know how to go about proving, or disproving someone's existence.



OmaxSteve, and I mean this in the gentlest way possible, not everyone is good at his job and not everyone and his sister are cut out to be a secret agents or shill typists.

Perhaps you should take some time to enjoy the simple pleasures life has to offer you as "( a Canadian citizen)", if indeed that's what you insist on calling yourself. Certainly you can take comfort in the fact that your "sister", if that's what you wish to call her, must certainly take pity on you.

You tried your very best, and that's what matters.

Image
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Postby fbenario on April 7th, 2010, 1:38 am

omaxsteve 4 Apr 6 2010, 02:23 AM wrote:the vicsim report is the most outstanding research and the most important truth of all


Well, "whatever-your-name-really-is", I do actually agree with, oh, 15 words of yours. Out of how many, 1,000?

A pretty low percentage, wouldn't you agree?
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Postby Rasta84 on April 8th, 2010, 4:45 pm

hoi.polloi 4 Jan 25 2010, 02:56 PM wrote: So should we collect all the names that don't appear on the CNN list?

We could start with Legacy.

Wall of Americans is out since it's been utterly deleted.

Maybe there are some people who claim to know people who died - names of which don't exist on the entire Internet, let alone any memorial. In that case, should we collect all those names privately and see if they coincide with one another?

I have a feeling by the time we count everybody who says they knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody, our list of 9/11 victims will reach Giuliani's 6,000-something estimate, no?


My mom told me once that a woman she works with's husband was killed in 9/11, something like that. I'll ask her for the name some time. Not saying I necessarily believe her but I believe that's what she told my mom at least. Hopefully I can get the name.
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Postby hoi.polloi on April 8th, 2010, 5:46 pm

Rasta84 @ Apr 8 2010, 03:45 PM wrote:
hoi.polloi 4 Jan 25 2010, 02:56 PM wrote: So should we collect all the names that don't appear on the CNN list?

We could start with Legacy.

Wall of Americans is out since it's been utterly deleted.

Maybe there are some people who claim to know people who died - names of which don't exist on the entire Internet, let alone any memorial. In that case, should we collect all those names privately and see if they coincide with one another?

I have a feeling by the time we count everybody who says they knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody, our list of 9/11 victims will reach Giuliani's 6,000-something estimate, no?


My mom told me once that a woman she works with's husband was killed in 9/11, something like that. I'll ask her for the name some time. Not saying I necessarily believe her but I believe that's what she told my mom at least. Hopefully I can get the name.


Yes, hopefully.
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Postby suuch on April 9th, 2010, 9:29 pm

My name is Steve I'm a first timer to this forum. I contacted Simon not too long ago expressing my interest in this whole ordeal. I have read the vicsim report and at first due to my lack of understanding of computers I had a hard time following. So I started to do some digging of my own. I started with the more well known vicsims. I figured I would look into the companies they worked for prior to the incident. I got through 6 of these vicsims and realized that 4 out of the six people I researched were all "big shots" at their respective companies. Mark Bingham was the CEO of The Bingham Group. Thomas Burnett Jr was senior vice president and chief operating officer of Thoratec Corp., a maker of medical devices based in Pleasanton, California. So I started looking into these companies and saw a trend where these businesses had very large mergers/deals in the year 2001 (post 9/11) in fact in some cases it was the company’s largest merger/deal recorded. Has anyone else looked into these businesses? In the vicsim report it has a list of the companies responsible but I can’t recall if it touched on what I am speaking of. Any help?
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Postby MartinL on April 9th, 2010, 10:15 pm

suuch @ Apr 9 2010, 09:29 PM wrote: My name is Steve I'm a first timer to this forum. I contacted Simon not too long ago expressing my interest in this whole ordeal. I have read the vicsim report and at first due to my lack of understanding of computers I had a hard time following. So I started to do some digging of my own. I started with the more well known vicsims. I figured I would look into the companies they worked for prior to the incident. I got through 6 of these vicsims and realized that 4 out of the six people I researched were all "big shots" at their respective companies. Mark Bingham was the CEO of The Bingham Group. Thomas Burnett Jr was senior vice president and chief operating officer of Thoratec Corp., a maker of medical devices based in Pleasanton, California. So I started looking into these companies and saw a trend where these businesses had very large mergers/deals in the year 2001 (post 9/11) in fact in some cases it was the company’s largest merger/deal recorded. Has anyone else looked into these businesses? In the vicsim report it has a list of the companies responsible but I can’t recall if it touched on what I am speaking of. Any help?


It would probably be good to make a thread where we can investigate the major VicSim companies more closely. Are there any VicCompanies involved also maybe?
Nice initiative Steve :)
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Postby hoi.polloi on April 10th, 2010, 11:08 am

suuch @ Apr 9 2010, 08:29 PM wrote: My name is Steve I'm a first timer to this forum. I contacted Simon not too long ago expressing my interest in this whole ordeal. I have read the vicsim report and at first due to my lack of understanding of computers I had a hard time following. So I started to do some digging of my own. I started with the more well known vicsims. I figured I would look into the companies they worked for prior to the incident. I got through 6 of these vicsims and realized that 4 out of the six people I researched were all "big shots" at their respective companies. Mark Bingham was the CEO of The Bingham Group. Thomas Burnett Jr was senior vice president and chief operating officer of Thoratec Corp., a maker of medical devices based in Pleasanton, California. So I started looking into these companies and saw a trend where these businesses had very large mergers/deals in the year 2001 (post 9/11) in fact in some cases it was the company’s largest merger/deal recorded. Has anyone else looked into these businesses? In the vicsim report it has a list of the companies responsible but I can’t recall if it touched on what I am speaking of. Any help?


suuch and MartinL, I will start the thread immediately. Thanks for the support on the matter (at last, someone agreeing with me!)

It has been my argument since the beginning that the corporations and institutions responsible should get the Enron/AT&T treatment to them all - maybe what that ultimately entails is for them to be tried, fined, broken up, dismantled and legally barred from forming again.

As Piper and I have both tried to emphasize, any company defending a sim's existence - especially with papers supposedly making them real - is guilty of criminal perjury. However, they must be pinned. That is easy enough for most. I expect some of the little fish will get away.

As to your question about CEOs and such, there is a slight problem with the story that all these fake people had this job. If you look over their job descriptions one by one, over and over, as I have, you may find something like 20 vice presidents, 10 presidents and various CEO-like names describing all who died from a single company. This would be fine in America, where titles are paraded around without much meaning to them, and companies often naming their employees something high and granfalutin' because it looks good on a resume. However, it does present some questions about the structure of these corporations, no?
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Postby MartinL on June 8th, 2010, 1:41 am

Re-upload on youtube removed due to a copyright claim by Robert Anderson.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ie%3F&aq=f

I guess it's gonna be problematic to track down this particular "Robert Anderson".....

Anyone got a clue who might have removed the video this time?
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Postby terbates on June 8th, 2010, 5:07 am

Why is it always "I have a sister who knew," or "I have a friend who knew someone," or "my mothers ex knew some one," why isn't there someone who can say "I know" and here is their address and phone number.

I mean, ALL the people allegedly working in the Towers and not one person has come forward and said "I knew a jumper," or " The guy sitting in front of me is gone"...

Well then I'll put in my two cents too. I knew a guy who's sister's garbageman used to date a girl who's ex-boyrfriend's wife's brother knew a guy who's brother's sister used to date a lady who worked in the tower and her brother jumped......... I mean come on....If you're gonna post sheissa as this....don't!!!
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Postby Rasta84 on June 13th, 2010, 2:41 am

hoi.polloi @ Apr 8 2010, 05:46 PM wrote:
Rasta84 4 Apr 8 2010, 03:45 PM wrote:
hoi.polloi 4 Jan 25 2010, 02:56 PM wrote: So should we collect all the names that don't appear on the CNN list?

We could start with Legacy.

Wall of Americans is out since it's been utterly deleted.

Maybe there are some people who claim to know people who died - names of which don't exist on the entire Internet, let alone any memorial. In that case, should we collect all those names privately and see if they coincide with one another?

I have a feeling by the time we count everybody who says they knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody, our list of 9/11 victims will reach Giuliani's 6,000-something estimate, no?


My mom told me once that a woman she works with's husband was killed in 9/11, something like that. I'll ask her for the name some time. Not saying I necessarily believe her but I believe that's what she told my mom at least. Hopefully I can get the name.


Yes, hopefully.


I forgot to do this
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Postby Rasta84 on June 13th, 2010, 2:43 am

terbates 4 Jun 8 2010, 05:07 AM wrote: Why is it always "I have a sister who knew," or "I have a friend who knew someone," or "my mothers ex knew some one," why isn't there someone who can say "I know" and here is their address and phone number.

I mean, ALL the people allegedly working in the Towers and not one person has come forward and said "I knew a jumper," or " The guy sitting in front of me is gone"...

Well then I'll put in my two cents too. I knew a guy who's sister's garbageman used to date a girl who's ex-boyrfriend's wife's brother knew a guy who's brother's sister used to date a lady who worked in the tower and her brother jumped......... I mean come on....If you're gonna post sheissa as this....don't!!!


I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself personally it's because I'm a shill who was paid to write that by the government. The rest of the posters you'd have to ask individually.

Being serious though for all I know the woman who my mom works with that told her that is some deep cover operative who's lying about it. It just seems weird that there'd be people like that working in nursing homes but I guess almost anything's possible. Most of this 'vicsim' evidence does seem to check out.
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Postby hoi.polloi on June 13th, 2010, 7:19 pm

Rasta84 4 Jun 13 2010, 01:43 AM wrote:
terbates 4 Jun 8 2010, 05:07 AM wrote: Why is it always "I have a sister who knew," or "I have a friend who knew someone," or "my mothers ex knew some one," why isn't there someone who can say "I know" and here is their address and phone number.

I mean, ALL the people allegedly working in the Towers and not one person has come forward and said "I knew a jumper," or " The guy sitting in front of me is gone"...

Well then I'll put in my two cents too. I knew a guy who's sister's garbageman used to date a girl who's ex-boyrfriend's wife's brother knew a guy who's brother's sister used to date a lady who worked in the tower and her brother jumped......... I mean come on....If you're gonna post sheissa as this....don't!!!


I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself personally it's because I'm a shill who was paid to write that by the government. The rest of the posters you'd have to ask individually.

Being serious though for all I know the woman who my mom works with that told her that is some deep cover operative who's lying about it. It just seems weird that there'd be people like that working in nursing homes but I guess almost anything's possible. Most of this 'vicsim' evidence does seem to check out.


When people cite 'personal reasons' for war crimes and propaganda, what can you say? Lying bastards are lying bastards and it doesn't make them innocent to say "oh I have a head ache, that's why I made up this story about someone who doesn't exist".

And sorry to say this, but sarcasm - however amusing - doesn't excuse us from our responsibility to figure it out. If you don't do the footwork, then aren't we just proving to the world that most people don't actually question liars significantly enough to break up a ring of scripted criminal story-tellers?

Provide us with names. Dates. Plot points of the 9/11 script.

Do your best to pursue a conversation with this person, and hell - try to get their permission to get a recording of it. Then ask the tough questions and post it online. Some people just make sh#t up and as long as we buy it, we are guilty of endorsing the lie.

It is pretty much everyone's responsibility reading this site to doubt your claim Rasta until there is some explanation for it.
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Postby nonhocapito on September 29th, 2010, 11:48 am

It occurred to me, because of a certain skype discussion, that the DNA databank for the 9/11 victims is an interesting piece of evidence, if we corner those responsible and force them to PROVE this database exists somewhere.
For the time being, I'll post here the little I learned so far.
The story begins, like all good stories, with a Google search.

On this article I find the DNA database mentioned:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6065FZ20100107"

Two women were identified by referencing DNA from the remains with a database of DNA profiles from victims of the attack, said Ellen Borakove, a medical examiner's spokeswoman.


Ellen Borakove. What has Google to say about this woman?
Well, she is ALL OVER THE PLACE, although I can't seem to find a single picture of her face.
Being the face for the NYC office of the Chief Medical Examiner (website: http://www.nyc.gov/html/ocme), she is so often mentioned on news articles her quotes are even collected on quotes websites.
Here are a few articles where she appears on the NY daily news:
http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Ellen+Borakove

She seems to be saying the last words on all sorts of cases of violent deaths, about 9/11 rescuers, and even celebrities who died in NYC such as John Lennon (!) and Heath Ledger.
Actually, to handle celebrity cases of suspicious deaths seems to be her more high-profile occupation, which accounts probably for the fact that her picture is hard to find among thousands of pictures of the celebrities whose cases she handled (just see this google search: http://www.google.com/images?q=Ellen+Borakove)" )
Here she rules on Ledger:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/02 ... _died.html
Here she refuses to release John Lennon autopsy report:
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/exhibit_n.htm
Here she rules how a ground zero worker died:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10 ... ed_fr.html
And here is an interesting article about the DNA identification on the 9/11 crime scene using bone fragments:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/09 ... _of_9.html

Laura Lee Morabito's remains were found in the initial recovery effort but could not be linked to her by the DNA technology used at the time, said Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the city's medical examiner.

The medical examiner's office now is working with the Bode Technology Group, a Lorton, Virginia-based DNA testing laboratory that has patented a new methodology of DNA extraction. The new system requires much less sample material than was required just five years ago.


Laura Lee Morabito is so excited about the news her left eye got a little deformed:
Image
Talking about this, somebody carried around a coffin: http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2007/10/s ... morab.html --and somebody whined about a mosque: http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=500758

The Bode Technology Group website:
http://www.bodetech.com/
Who formerly ran (and still owns) this venture? But none other than Howard Safir, New York City Police Commissioner until 2000:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Safir

Howard Safir
Image

After Safir resigned as Police Commissioner in 2000, he immediately went to work as a consultant to the chief executive of ChoicePoint, Inc. and ultimately ran their Bode Technology Group subsidiary, which they purchased at Safir's urging in April 2001.
In February 2007, Safir became CEO of Bode Technology when GlobalOptions Group, Inc. acquired The Bode Technology Group from ChoicePoint in a cash purchase for $12.5 million.


Among other things this guy is "a member of the Board of Visitors to CIA University". I guess that explains why his forensic group is based in Virginia, right?
ChoicePoint also dwelled in Intelligence, and was involved in the Florida 2000 recount (when Safir was there): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChoicePoint

Anyhoo. DNA. Here goes the Bode Tech website about the WTC victims on the "cold cases" page:

Over 3000 highly compromised bone fragments from World Trade Center victims were processed in 2006-2007 and of these over 2000 reportable profiles were generated, resulting in new identifications from samples previously unidentified.


Against what, exactly, these samples were compared? Let's see what the deputed government agency has to say. This seems the place with the answers:
http://massfatality.dna.gov/ (it's a study that moves from the 9/11 case, in form of a website, also in PDF here: http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/214781.pdf))
I highly recommend chapter 8 which details the relationship between the DNA laboratories and the 9/11 victims "families" (lol). It is worth a couple of laughs. Apparently the "relatives" provided their own swab samples, which were later compared to the bone fragments to find a match. They maintain that this page http://dna-view.com/simulate.htm makes it perfectly clear. :D
Here's a nice graphic of where the samples came from (sorry, graphics not embeddable in the page): http://massfatality.dna.gov/Exhibits/21
More details here: http://massfatality.dna.gov/Exhibits/1/

From more than one passage I seem to understand that there is not ONE vitcims databank, but that the samples are instead spread over more than one laboratory in a system called "Decentralized Laboratory Structure".
http://massfatality.dna.gov/Exhibits/8/ and http://massfatality.dna.gov/Exhibits/9/
Hmm... This way it seems pretty hard to pinpoint who first collected and who is storing the samples and the matches...

But let me go back a second.
Let's take a look at the source of this:
http://massfatality.dna.gov/Exhibits/21
"Information provided by the New York City office of the Chief Medical Examiner".
In other words, the office of Ellen Borkarove... so I guess we're back at square one. They seem to be the ones hosting the 9/11 victims DNA databank, or, in other words, making up what constitutes the DNA of the vicsims (or simDNA).

(I wonder, how do you ask for proof for the existence of a DNA databank? In what form is this stored? All electronically? Anyone has a friend geneticist or microbiologist to ask to?)
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Postby fred on September 29th, 2010, 4:28 pm

Since it's publicly funded, you could probably FOIA the security procedures for the DNA databank.

You should be able to get copies of all of the contracts that were awarded and find out who's actually working on it.

I'm guessing that this DNA operation would be rather easy to fake by going to some local morgues and sending in a bunch of hair clippings in small bag. "This is from aunt Melba, we fear she was lost in Tower One."

Send some regular lab workers a bunch of cotton swabs, combs, and hair clippings, along with some bones from the local morgue and ask them to piece it all together. Tell them the hair from body one is your "Todd Beamer" sample. Let them match it up with fingernail you say you found in Shanksville, no doubt embedded in a terrorist's neck fragment as the passengers bravely sacrificed themselves.

Or they could save a bunch of time and money by just claiming that they did this and let Howard Safir and Ellen Borkarove tell you your request violates the privacy of the 9/11 families.

"Bork a Rove"? sounds like a portmanteau of Conservative hero and Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork and Republican Strategist Karl Rove if you ask me... but maybe it's a real name.
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