"9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

The most common objection people have to our research: "Too many people would have been involved to pull off such a massive hoax." Well, with trillions of taxpayers' dollars at hand, this operation could certainly afford contracting many individuals (under a gag order and on a need-to-know basis). Meet the real - and unreal - persons, companies & entities assigned to carry out this gigantic, media & military-assisted psyop.
hoi.polloi
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"9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

"9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax is the name of my thread to try to slip into the minds of those who perpetuate the 9/11 hoax with good intentions. This thread might also be called after the proverbial "road to hell ... (that is paved with good intentions)" or just "The argument for 9/11". I am not as interested in the devious players since I will probably never understand their twisted mindset and would probably never want to. I aim to try to explain - to satisfy my personal world view - the number of "normal" people who operate politely and honestly in society and believe that lying to the American populace somehow makes America stronger instead of seemingly more pathetic and desperate.

I realize this is just speculation and therefore of dubious value, but I also believe it could lead to some investigation we might not expect.

Here are some of the reasons I can imagine a normal person would lie about 9/11 - or believe the liars they work with:

1. Thankless, stressed-out firefighters and police officers feel they need attention and want to be thanked for their constant service.
2. They also feel that their job is made more difficult by the empowerment of gangs with espionage technology that makes it to the consumer marketplace.
3. They might feel that in order to "grant" society this technology, they want something in return for their hardship.

All this turned out to be aided by the fake terrorist events which help the industrial-security cultures meter the technology as it comes out, helps them maintain their (maybe condescending) attitude to the public of: Go ahead! Enjoy all the cell phones, Internet use and fancy camera equipment you'd like! and also convinces them that it's a risk worth taking since they maintain control over the "ring (higher tech) to rule them all" so to speak.

They also probably approve of the "big brother" cameras and scanners and such as a means of keeping tabs on the average person.

Yes, you could say they are somewhat paranoid about it all, but maybe they genuinely believe in "binding" a multicultural society together using technology and they also felt that the average person thinks like they do: completely mistrusting in others and the average person's will to resist blowing up another country - given the chance.

Perhaps the leaders of Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, the modern 'Western Powers' (like UK and USA) and all actually agreed to fabricate this 9/11 nonsense in the hopes of uniting people around their ideals.

Simon will likely chastise me for giving the perps too much credit, but again I am not talking about the perps. I am talking about the person on the border between the lie and our investigation into it. Most people who think they know something about 9/11 are on this border and they are the ones protecting the lie ... because they believe it or sympathize with it. Which are close cousins of attitude.
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by fbenario »

hoi.polloi wrote:Here are some of the reasons I can imagine a normal person would lie about 9/11 - or believe the liars they work with:

1. Thankless, stressed-out firefighters and police officers feel they need attention and want to be thanked for their constant service.
2. They also feel that their job is made more difficult by the empowerment of gangs with espionage technology that makes it to the consumer marketplace.
3. They might feel that in order to "grant" society this technology, they want something in return for their hardship.
4. Most folks have had ingrained in them from elementary school that America is great, and is a force for good in the world. Any conflicting evidence/theory/discussion gets compartmentalized into a tiny room of their brain that they refuse to ever again enter. They actually think that part of themselves disintegrates if they try to face that they have believed lies about their country for decades, and that their beloved US military is a force for evil in the world.

5. Their future career prospects and standard of living depend on pleasing those with more power and influence.
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by Brutal Metal »

Patriot act, Strip searches in airports,it's only a matter of time before they MAKE YOU have a microchip implanted in your neck! Science Fiction will turn into Reality! :huh:
hoi.polloi
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

And I suppose from the perspective of the New World types, that would be a good thing.

Those who resist are deemed "smart" enough to go without.

Those who don't resist are deemed the "sheeple" that deserve to be numbered, tagged, tracked and controlled like a herd.

I would not go along with that picture personally. But you can see how an average person (who might think themselves worthy of the chip or not) might think that on the surface it is a morally acceptable "gleaning" of the population. We should expect from the 9/11 hoaxers soon a lot of propaganda about there being no difference between robots and humans.
HonestlyNow
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by HonestlyNow »

hoi.polloi wrote: We should expect from the 9/11 hoaxers soon a lot of propaganda about there being no difference between robots and humans.
From 9-11 ABC NIST dub3

Image

From wikipedia:
Cubix set in the year 2044, is the story of a bright-eyed young boy named Connor with a deep fascination for robots. His father, Graham, who dislikes all robots, has never truly been supportive of Connor. As a surprise to his son, he purchases them a home and a small doughnut shop in the robot center of the world, Bubble Town, location of the RobixCorp headquarters. In this town, robots even outnumber people. The reason for RobixCorp's success is the EPU: Emotional Processing Unit, allowing robots to develop their own unique personality, just like a human being.
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by Brutal Metal »

hoi.polloi wrote:And I suppose from the perspective of the New World types, that would be a good thing.

Those who resist are deemed "smart" enough to go without.

Those who don't resist are deemed the "sheeple" that deserve to be numbered, tagged, tracked and controlled like a herd.

I would not go along with that picture personally. But you can see how an average person (who might think themselves worthy of the chip or not) might think that on the surface it is a morally acceptable "gleaning" of the population. We should expect from the 9/11 hoaxers soon a lot of propaganda about there being no difference between robots and humans.
Hi hoi I actually think they'll spin the chip implant procedure to make it seem like it'll be a benefit for the citizens, I bet the advertising campaign has already completed behind closed doors. They'll use words like 'Public and Personal Safety"/We'll store all your medical records as a courtesy (in your Fricken Neck! :D )/"This will help weed out Terrorist, it'll be considerably more accurate than a paper driven census taking!) The dumb sheep will drink the Kool-Aid and the final decline of World civilization will begin, the perps could do anything even something as horrific as mass extermination to reach their goal...
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by repentantandy »

I'm confident there are quite a few genuinely aware, intelligent individuals who, at some point in the past decade, came to realize that the OCT simply cannot be a true story. Yet they have never, ever given voice to their doubts. And probably never will.

Perhaps the key to understanding the disturbing (to us) post-9/11 behaviour of these non-perps (people who never signed on to the PNAC agenda, mentally or literally, who might even have opposed it if they were initially aware of it) but who nevertheless (and despite their inner doubts) either chose to defend the OCT when confronted by doubters (or at least to actively denigrate the OCT sceptics) is FEAR. Yes, sheer, unmitaged and inescapable FEAR:

Fear of seeming out of step with society's OCT-supporting "opinion leaders".

Fear of being associated with OCT-opposing "kooks".

Fear of the withdrawal of funding for pet projects by OCT-supporting, tax-free foundations.

Fear of ostracism by OCT-supporting peer groups.

Fear of retribution in the workplace by OCT-supporting superiors.

Fear of discovering unbearably painful truths about a political party/religious-belief system/ethnic group/national-loyalty mindset/military affiliation/professional relationship/employment commitment/etc. in which they've heavily, deeply, overwhelmingly invested their lives and careers.

And ultimately fear of the further (and nationally fatal) unraveling of the already seriously frayed and decayed "social fabric" that still keeps most of their fellow citizens from daily descending into barbarism, tribal warfare, and a drowning pool of community chaos.

So, if the "center (of the U.S. republic) cannot hold" because it is functioning from a base of massive, media-spread lies and ghastly, war-mongering corruption that benefits mainly the ultra-elite, then perhaps these suspicious-of-the-OCT (but nevertheless fearful-and-compliant-with-the-deception) non-perps see the only pragmatic course to chart (in postponing national doomsday) to be a Zelikow-like "propping up" of the essential 9/11 "public myths" for as long as possible.

Of course, we fakery-exposers profoundly, vehemently beg to differ... either optimistically trusting in the public's ability to "handle the truth," or fatalistically pressing on -- to risk the 9/11 truth version of "The Samson Option". :(
Farcevalue
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by Farcevalue »

Do those who believe and perpetuate the myth through the variety of methods that support the meme: fiction writers , teachers, local news reporters, etc., qualify as those who lie because they think it is best for the country? Stated another way, everyone who is in a position to spread and support the myth may not be someone who knows but goes along to get along, but is simply part of the snowball effect.

I sometimes forget that things I have come to accept as undeniable and absolute facts, the sun rises - there were no plane crashes, can still come as a shock. Reactions generally range from kill the messenger to maim the messenger, friends and family not withstanding. I think those who have invested much in their belief may work actively to avoid the truth. For some, reality is based on consensus and breaking from the herd causes too much discomfort to be considered.

My biggest disappointment yet has been reactions at sites supposedly dedicated to rational argument and deduction of truth from first principles who accept the argument from authority of television. If it's not acceptance of the OCT, the consensus is: Maybe there were no planes, but why is that important? I have my own thoughts, such as allowing the powers that be to arbitrarily rewrite the laws of physics cannot lead to anything positive for the rest of us. Anyone care to submit their thoughts on why it's important not to let this sleeping dog lie?
hoi.polloi
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Do those who believe and perpetuate the myth through the variety of methods that support the meme: fiction writers, teachers, local news reporters, etc., qualify as those who lie because they think it is best for the country?
No. But a lot of these people are not being honest with themselves about the event ... our squabble with those of good intention who fail to understand what happened is the friendly argument of scientists trying to determine the results of an unreproducible experiment; as you said, rewriting physics to give a free pass to a neo-religious "miracle" like the "plane crashes of 9/11" trick is outrageous.

These people prefer to be fooled, and they haven't taken time to weigh any dissenting opinion nor consider its potential logic. They "disagree" with evidence that it was hoaxed, but have not produced any contrary explanation. (The government "accidentally" made hours and hours of fake 9/11 footage prior to the "surprise terrorist attack" perhaps?) It is intellectually dishonest, much in the way that scientists accuse other scientists of writing poor articles that jump to unfounded conclusions.

There are those who are writing the articles, which we take the most issue with; and there are those you mention - who merely blindly believe the articles. It is in our interests to say, "I don't believe this article was written well or is based on proper science" when we see them. As to why that kind of exploration is important, we might consider the questions posed to us on a daily basis by all sorts of wise people in our lives: is justice "important"? Is peace "important"? Is love "important"? Is earnest communication with our brothers and sisters "important"? We might ask why people are upset that CEOs of the five existing major banks are collecting so much dough and the military is sending more and more people into absurdist macabre slaughters and we might ask all the people in the streets of America right now protesting those things. Lately, the forces of truth and justice are being treated as important enough to defeat American sloth and apathy. Knowing Americans, that's gotta be some pretty fucking powerful attention paid to truth and justice.

I can't say I know a single person who has outright dismissed all these principles like a total Nihilist. If everyone involved in my life ever told me "it's not important" and I sensed in their voice and their delivery of that statement that they meant it, I could stop, couldn't I? Since the only people who have said that to me appear to be afraid of the truth rather than compassionately redirecting my interests, I haven't been convinced it really doesn't matter and we should just let bygones be bygones and reboot our investigation of humanity and the sciences so quickly.

There are many more important things than science, but science is one of our best hopes for a consensus understanding between peoples of Earth. With that understanding, expressions of love are communicated better, and love is all that matters.

A lot of people agree with me about the Golden Rule philosophy, but they don't think 9/11 can net any kind of common understanding. Simon has proven that's wrong and the media "terrorist" events are not hopeless problems but actually evidence of the failure of lies and misunderstanding: the triumph of truth, without the need to bomb "evildoers".

On the other hand, there is one reason science might be under attack that could be based on a very frightening philosophy. Consider the following:

1. Scientists interested in the truth are using computers and technology to discover new aspects of life and the human race in it.

2. They are running and recording tests and simulations to see how human behavior uses this knowledge.

3. They find that the more technology we have, the more we abuse it on each other and one another.

4. One out of a hundred average random persons - when simulated in scientific tests - is corrupted by the power of technology and the simulations always end with them being an evil dictator standing on a planet of dead, raped babies.

5. Benevolent rulers wish to entrust humanity with the technology and knowledge but cannot, due to the responsibility they would feel for releasing incredible powers to the average person and the risks involved.

6. As we have seen in the past, inventions occur simultaneously and spontaneously across the globe (e.g.; there were three inventors of the light bulb in our era) and so the only way to prevent potentially disastrous technology from reaching the mad men is to prevent knowledge and truth from reaching the point at which those inventions would spontaneously appear across the globe.

7. To curb inventors and clever people from discovering something "irresponsible" (e.g.; Death Ray) they have created a simulation of their concerns about humanity - which has taken the form of 9/11, 7/7, Oslo and other fake "attacks". The message is always the same: "primitive" people cannot be trusted with individual power. These serve several purposes, but one of them is to produce physically impossible events that mess with common conceptions of science.

8. By using psychological operations of this nature - which cast doubt on the average person's trustworthiness, which demonstrate physical impossibilities, which confuse, slow or halt the public record and scientific progress - they hope to buy time before a fool gains Tesla technology and "splits the Earth in two" or something similar.

Would this be a flawed plan? Yes. And incredibly speculative on my part. It raises more questions than answers.

After all, the operators of the hoax believe they themselves are incorruptible to a point that they may be wrong about. Their simulations of human behavior are most definitely incomplete, since lurking variables must be considered in all statistical measurements. Their faith in humanity might actually be the exact force that is determining humanity's ability to avoid self-destruction. (Their superiority-complex might be the same phenomenon as the corrupt over-powered individual phenomenon that they fear. i.e.; you become what you fight). Greed plays an incredible factor in the intellectual property gangsterism of mining, resource control and wars. (If these "elites" are really so smart and benevolent, why couldn't they channel the cold bloodlust of our troops into something productive? Did the self-destructive tendency of humankind simply reach a boiling point and they had to make an agreement to spill it into the Middle East?)

And yeah ... "Who killed the electric car?"

In other words, there might be two forces at work at all times - up and down this chain of power. The people dcopymope writes about (the "evil Illuminati elite" types) and types of people I speculate about here (those trying to halt/control/meter our physical power from devastating the Earth and each other even worse).

This - and only this - seems to me to be the best excuse for those who perpetuated 9/11. My advice to those who I speculate about is for them to let go of that fear about the average person becoming an evil nightmare; it is only empowering the "evil Illuminati types" who safely lurk in the shadow of our doubt.

Allow humanity to have the pacifying, clean technologies. Allow science and truth to move forward. That is my call and Simon's call. We believe in people.
CryptoAnarchist
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by CryptoAnarchist »

fbenario wrote: 4. Most folks have had ingrained in them from elementary school that America is great, and is a force for good in the world. Any conflicting evidence/theory/discussion gets compartmentalized into a tiny room of their brain that they refuse to ever again enter. They actually think that part of themselves disintegrates if they try to face that they have believed lies about their country for decades, and that their beloved US military is a force for evil in the world.

5. Their future career prospects and standard of living depend on pleasing those with more power and influence.
Spot on. That's why I call the baby boomer generation the "worst generation". They got the full on propaganda through the new medium of TV and federally subsidized public schooling. Socialist agendas were pumped into their soft minds and they were forced to repeat the "pledge of allegiance". There was no alternative media to counter-balance what they were taught - they turned on state controlled TV and got more of the same lies and propaganda. Most of this still happens today, but at least real information is getting out now and there are more people thinking for themselves.

I always think of the interview of G Edward Griffin and the KGB agent. Whether you believe that authentic or not (I have my doubts), his explanation of the demoralization process is exactly what has happened. There's a part where he says, and I paraphrase, "Even if you show them concrete evidence against their beliefs, their minds are incapable of changing once demoralization has taken place."

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that many people are just literally incapable of reason if they haven't learned it by a certain age.
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by Dcopymope »

CryptoAnarchist wrote:
fbenario wrote: 4. Most folks have had ingrained in them from elementary school that America is great, and is a force for good in the world. Any conflicting evidence/theory/discussion gets compartmentalized into a tiny room of their brain that they refuse to ever again enter. They actually think that part of themselves disintegrates if they try to face that they have believed lies about their country for decades, and that their beloved US military is a force for evil in the world.

5. Their future career prospects and standard of living depend on pleasing those with more power and influence.
Spot on. That's why I call the baby boomer generation the "worst generation". They got the full on propaganda through the new medium of TV and federally subsidized public schooling. Socialist agendas were pumped into their soft minds and they were forced to repeat the "pledge of allegiance". There was no alternative media to counter-balance what they were taught - they turned on state controlled TV and got more of the same lies and propaganda. Most of this still happens today, but at least real information is getting out now and there are more people thinking for themselves.

I always think of the interview of G Edward Griffin and the KGB agent. Whether you believe that authentic or not (I have my doubts), his explanation of the demoralization process is exactly what has happened. There's a part where he says, and I paraphrase, "Even if you show them concrete evidence against their beliefs, their minds are incapable of changing once demoralization has taken place.
Yeah, I've linked to that video interview before, here is the full version below.

Yuri Bezmenov; ex-KGB Defector - "Deception Was My Job":
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doqvkC-jYk

Here is another important interview of G Edward Griffin with Norman Dodd about the major tax exempt foundations using their influence to merge the Soviet system with that of America's, as he said they were ordered to do by the White House.

Norman Dodd On Tax Exempt Foundations:
full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM
CryptoAnarchist wrote:
Personally, I've come to the conclusion that many people are just literally incapable of reason if they haven't learned it by a certain age.
Exactly as intended, as Bertrand Russell stated in his books that I've quoted from in the link below.

Why are smart people fooled
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by fbenario »

hoi.polloi wrote:(Their superiority-complex might be the same phenomenon as the corrupt over-powered individual phenomenon that they fear. i.e.; you become what you fight).
Or, in Nietzsche's somewhat more elegant wording:
Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

Unread post by fbenario »

CryptoAnarchist wrote:I always think of the interview of G Edward Griffin and the KGB agent. Whether you believe that authentic or not (I have my doubts), his explanation of the demoralization process is exactly what has happened. There's a part where he says, and I paraphrase, "Even if you show them concrete evidence against their beliefs, their minds are incapable of changing once demoralization has taken place."
Numerous psychological studies have 'proven' that when a belief is very firmly held, conflicting evidence not only doesn't lead one to question his own belief, it causes the belief to be even more firmly held.

Or, put more simply, when someone's livelihood depends on not questioning his beliefs, he won't, no matter how strong conflicting evidence is.
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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

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Re: "9/11 will be great!" say participants of the hoax

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