What the "9/11 truth" debates keep missing

The most common objection people have to our research: "Too many people would have been involved to pull off such a massive hoax." Well, with trillions of taxpayers' dollars at hand, this operation could certainly afford contracting many individuals (under a gag order and on a need-to-know basis). Meet the real - and unreal - persons, companies & entities assigned to carry out this gigantic, media & military-assisted psyop.

What the "9/11 truth" debates keep missing

Postby hoi.polloi on December 13th, 2013, 12:00 am

Now that we know the videos and photos are plagued with signs of doctoring, if they haven't been outright manufactured whole cloth, there are a number of debates across the Internet that no longer feel relevant.

I think I have been hesitant to make any accusations like this before because I have not felt the need — and perhaps I've had a personal revulsion — to address what seemed like psychologically designed distractions. Anyway, I think the time has come to admit there are too many arguments leading nowhere and based on fabricated evidence. We should call some of them out. Hopefully to reengage those who we've ostracized on CluesForum because of their focus on a particular issue. Those with their heart in the right place but who continually miss the point that their evidence is false evidence pre-stacked against them.

Since the videos of the towers being attacked and collapsing, all evidence of the airplanes and seemingly all evidence of the victims are falsehoods, the contradictions and debates therein were likely set up (or at least used) to cause endless debate and speculation about the nature of the attack, and to foil investigations by planting distractions within the videos and media.

DELIBERATE (VERY LIKELY SCRIPTED) DISTRACTIONS INCLUDE:

  • Hollow towers theory
  • Nuclear attack theory
  • Space beams theory
  • Strange airplanes or missiles
  • Holograms
  • "Dancing Jews" celebrating the attacks
  • Explosions/"squibs"
  • Imagery of melted cars
  • Activities of rescue workers
  • Shining UFO-like objects in various videos
  • Conspiratorial language
  • Most things mentioned in the mainstream media as a 9/11 "cover up"
  • The appearance of U.S. military weakness on that day

The truth is we cannot know because it was a darn near perfect military cover up using the appearance of military weakness to have people constantly point out where the military failed in the operation, and therefore conclude the entire operation must have been a failure.

In fact, whatever their end goal (we can at least presume it was to increase security and defense industry spending) 9/11 was not a failure as a deception. It fooled almost everyone. Including those who insist they are never fooled.

This is difficult for people to admit, because we know how many mistakes people make regularly, and we want to assume we can catch a military deception as it happens. And we want to know why a deception is taking place.

Since we could not "catch" it — since no mental framework aside from complete dismissiveness could have — and we cannot yet know why it's still taking place to this day, our cognitive panic sets in and creates a barrier: we refuse the potential understanding that millions upon millions of people have been fooled. Excuses are developed to explain why (or dismiss the fact that) hundreds, if not thousands, of millions were fooled and why they are continually fooled, and this leads to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if they are.

Perhaps it doesn't. Perhaps that is the safest, most rational response: aversion. Just saying,
So what?

and moving on.

If that's the case, then the human race successfully overcame 9/11 with no aid. The operation itself, for all its complexity and what must have been a ridiculous budget and waste of money, was pointless.

However, if it does not matter that so many people can be completely misled, but there is also resistance to the fact that it happened; that the military-TV partnership has a very strong psychological control over the people, then we must also admit to some extent a kind of pseudo-death of democracy or enlightenment or science, or possibly admit that 9/11 was some activity to tell us that these never existed in the first place, or there are those who wish it to be so. Or at least, we must admit that everyone can be fooled. And those who are not fooled can be branded as insane. (Something any victim of any form of zealotry, be it religious or otherwise, would probably be the first to agree with!)

In that case, and not to be hierarchical about it, but debates on "9/11 Conspiracy" and "9/11 Truth" web sites outside of this discussion don't seem to matter as much. These "small picture" debates include:

USELESS, ENDLESSLY ARGUED 9/11 TOPICS:

  • The method and true appearance of the towers' destructions/collapses
  • The design and variance of any airplanes images (or any airplanes seen or used)
  • Varying smoke color from towers as evidence of chemicals used
  • Varying architectural designs for the Twin Towers themselves
  • What the race/religion/gender/etc. of any high-profile player (victim, terrorist, hero) is
  • The number of fake people who represent real deaths taking place behind the scenes

All of these things show enough variance in the fabricated movies and Internet information to indicate the true nature of what happened is part of a single phenomenon which will never be known to but a few in high military/State government/otherwise influential positions. While distinguishing facts from fictions in these debates may be important from an ontological perspective, they still fail to address the larger picture that these debates continue to distract and fool people. And it leads no where nearer to the important admission that everyone was fooled in some way, and no expert appeared to save us from our ignorance. On the contrary, experts appeared out of the woodwork to all show us in which ways each of the various points of the day is believable or not.

September Clues and a few other sites are the only sites that insist you investigate everythingevery aspect of life itself — for yourself.

We must admit we can be and have been fooled by this aspect of culture, whatever it is, if we are to properly take a "big picture" lesson away from this. And for those that insist they haven't been fooled, it may be in our best interest to correct them (and remain humble in doing so, such as pointing out our own ability to be fooled, times we have been fooled and remind folks it's okay to make mistakes). I think this may be the path to healing the human race from and reconciling this 9/11 ugliness.

Because the true debate here, the one that 9/11 raises for any one at all is, does it matter that 9/11 fooled us?

If not, let's just forget about it and move on, shall we? But if it does matter, let's ignore the false debates that don't matter and ask what can we really do about our submission to experts that lie, our gullibility, our ignorance, our violent resistance to admitting our ignorance and trust in charlatans, and our media and government corruption, if anything? And is there anything to be done?
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Re: What the "9/11 truth" debates keep missing

Postby fbenario on December 13th, 2013, 3:03 am

hoi.polloi wrote:Since we could not "catch" it — since no mental framework aside from complete dismissiveness could have — and we cannot yet know why it's still taking place to this day, our cognitive panic sets in and creates a barrier: we refuse the potential understanding that millions upon millions of people have been fooled. Excuses are developed to explain why (or dismiss the fact that) hundreds, if not thousands, of millions were fooled and why they are continually fooled, and this leads to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if they are.
...
However, if it does not matter that so many people can be completely misled, but there is also resistance to the fact that it happened; that the military-TV partnership has a very strong psychological control over the people, then we must also admit to some extent a kind of pseudo-death of democracy or enlightenment or science, or possibly admit that 9/11 was some activity to tell us that these never existed in the first place, or there are those who wish it to be so. Or at least, we must admit that everyone can be fooled. And those who are not fooled can be branded as insane. (Something any victim of any form of zealotry, be it religious or otherwise, would probably be the first to agree with!)
...
All of these things show enough variance in the fabricated movies and Internet information to indicate the true nature of what happened is part of a single phenomenon which will never be known to but a few in high military/State government/otherwise influential positions. While distinguishing facts from fictions in these debates may be important from an ontological perspective, they still fail to address the larger picture that these debates continue to distract and fool people. And it leads no where nearer to the important admission that everyone was fooled in some way, and no expert appeared to save us from our ignorance. On the contrary, experts appeared out of the woodwork to all show us in which ways each of the various points of the day is believable or not.
...
We must admit we can be and have been fooled by this aspect of culture, whatever it is, if we are to properly take a "big picture" lesson away from this. And for those that insist they haven't been fooled, it may be in our best interest to correct them (and remain humble in doing so, such as pointing out our own ability to be fooled, times we have been fooled and remind folks it's okay to make mistakes). I think this may be the path to healing the human race from and reconciling this 9/11 ugliness.
...
If not, let's just forget about it and move on, shall we? But if it does matter, let's ignore the false debates that don't matter and ask what can we really do about our submission to experts that lie, our gullibility, our ignorance, our violent resistance to admitting our ignorance and trust in charlatans, and our media and government corruption, if anything? And is there anything to be done?

An excellent post, Hoi, from first word to last. The paragraphs I've quoted go right to the heart of the flaws and imperfections in humanity that the bastards used - and continue to use - against mankind to accomplish their grotesque continuing evil.
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Re: What the "9/11 truth" debates keep missing

Postby repentantandy on February 21st, 2014, 5:34 pm

Back in December Hoi said something so profound and troubling (IMHO) that I'm quite surprised it has elicited only a single comment.

Was everyone else who reads this forum simply left speechless when Hoi predicted that "...the true nature of what happened is part of a single phenomenon which will never be known to but a few in high military/State government/otherwise influential positions."

So, Hoi, what if anything (of enduring human value) HAS been accomplished by all this "truth"-seeking (and bitter squabbling) that so many 9/11 sceptics have devoted so much of their time, attention and effort to, for much of the past decade?

And what is your current speculation as to what would be the bottom-line effect on social cohesion and order in the USA if the "true nature of what happened" on 9/11 WERE to become widely understood?

Or do you firmly believe that such an occurence is so beyond the realm of possibility as to be unworthy of your consideration?

In any case... where would you have us go from here? :unsure:
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Re: What the "9/11 truth" debates keep missing

Postby hoi.polloi on February 22nd, 2014, 1:26 am

And what is your current speculation as to what would be the bottom-line effect on social cohesion and order in the USA if the "true nature of what happened" on 9/11 WERE to become widely understood?

Or do you firmly believe that such an [occurrence] is so beyond the realm of possibility as to be unworthy of your consideration?


How would I know? I'm in the same boat as anyone else who isn't part of that tiny crew. But I see it as almost unimportant even if it is outside the realm of possibility. How many people are fooled by unimportant things, such as urban legends and superstition? Billions of people every day. There is actually very little that the human race knows for certain about anything at all. And we are shown time and again when we try to act like we know more, what we thought we knew was actually unreal. Myths and legends are still the dominating factor in human life. Again, I must emphasize we all understand what Joseph Campbell is talking about when he says that we go through and enact mythical rituals every day. I am not saying 9/11 is up to that mythical level, I don't think it was really successful in that regard, it was most successful in just fooling people and making fools of everyone. The people who made 9/11 believe themselves to be mythmakers but actually they are no more mythmakers than any one of us. If you recognize that, you totally rob them of their already crooked aim.

Even if some government stooge was given the green light to read the official report of the "Behind the Scenes" action, would anybody believe her or him? Let's just speculate some amazing fantasy world where among those who did, it was opinion leaders that changed the world consciousness on it and everyone came to widely know what really happened. If this occurred, it would only make a small scientific difference in our knowledge of how the world works. This knowledge would be preserved and protected and enshrined the way knowledge of other things is done: through repetition in schools and universities.

The perhaps most important point, however, is something we already know. And that is: everyone can be fooled by something some of the time. It's an Abe Lincolnism, actually.

But without that being upkept and re-tested, that knowledge too could fade over time. People will one day think the world is flat again. They will think it's round again. They will think it's inside-out again. There is no such thing as permanent knowledge, only knowledge applicable or inapplicable to the time in which we are living. The knowledge that is inapplicable seems to be preserved in myths as if it were applicable or will be applicable again one day. And that is probably a fine thing to bear in mind, because that may be exactly the purpose of myths anyway.

If there were anything I could advise about this particular time it would be to update all our myths and understandings to recognize that yes, indeed, the entire world can be fooled by small minorities who successfully repeat anything enough times. Is that not how language is formed anyway? Perhaps perceptions of realities, myths both used and disused, are formed the same way.


In any case... where would you have us go from here?


So much pressure! It's not up to me! Where would you have us go? Just continue onward, I guess. It's all we ever do. As far as processing the fact that everybody was fooled, I can only suggest using the wonderful and cathartic gift of laughter. It is, after all, so absurd, the kinds of stories we sometimes mistake for universal truths.

All I can do is laugh. When we don't know how to update our myths and legends in the face of something overwhelming, just laugh and the myths and knowledge will update themselves accordingly.
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Re: What the "9/11 truth" debates keep missing

Postby dblitz on February 22nd, 2014, 4:04 am

I see 9/11 as a pre-emptive strike on the internet itself, among other things of course. It may even be that the wide availability of the internet at that time was a way of putting the weapon (alternative press) in the hands of the nerds and thinkers who weren't necessarily up with 'conspiracy theory' so that 'opinion makers' (the clever friends of the average person) would be able to assure those around them that no matter what rumors they had heard about alternative explanations online, they have checked it out and it was all just a bunch of crazy tin foil types.

I knew it was an op because I was already aware of them and I had been studying conspiracy and media since the mid 90's. I remember watching it and knowing that my life was set to be transformed as I was not about to pretend I didn't understand it's true nature (if not the specific technique employed,) and I remember very well watching almost every one around me simply collapse into submission. It was also a way of making those who were already known to their friends as 'conspiracy theorists' appear extremely insensitive to the suffering of the 'victims,' and thereby discrediting independent investigation even further.

Over time a few of my associates ended up questioning and researching but without enough experience in these matters prior to the event, they almost always thought they already knew better than me, having been hooked by the same techniques the T.V. and papers had programmed them to respond to. They would accuse me of being a shill or a racist or a religious bigot or whatever other straw-man they were prepped to spurn me with once they had been brainwashed by an Alex Jones or a Noam Chomsky or a David Icke. Almost every 'alternative theory camp' has been loaded with a denial of a specific truth that is key to the overall picture and that keeps the various streams of research artificially separated.

It's a lonely road this one we are on, and I want to thank all the members here for being as honest as they are and as open minded as possible, but still warn that, as far as I can see, there remain some blind spots and assumptions on the forum that are the inevitable result of the sheer power of the Humanist and scientistic worldview that many seem quite happy to continue to hold to, even as those who developed and continue to propagate it are revealed as the scum of the earth.

In my view the primary reason for the continuing denial of people who should know better is not primarily intellectual or scientific, but psychological and spiritual. Consider what is meant by 'the world' as the term is used by Christ and the Apostles in the Gospel (Love not the world nor the things of the world.) Forget what you have learned about the 'seven deadly sins' of the Roman Catholic church. The notion that spiritual life is a matter of measurement, legality, reward and punishment for the keeping or breaking of arbitrary rules is entirely a product of the scholastic theology of the west, and was never a part of the early or Orthodox Church.

In the true Church sin is considered as a misuse of something that was created good, and the early fathers recognized the unnatural passions as the source of ignorance and evil. A passion is a habitual misuse of a natural human power that becomes an enslaving force that not only prevents those subject to it from escaping, but also binds the corrupt and mindless culture that has resulted from the 'freedom' that the secular, post-Christian culture claimed would result when the passion were no longer restrained, and their right or wrong use left up to the opinion of the individual.


“The world is the general name for all the passions. When we wish to call the passions by a common name, we call them the world. But when we wish to distinguish them by their special names, we call them the passions. The passions are the following: love of riches, desire for possessions, bodily pleasure from which comes sexual passion, love of honour which gives rise to envy, lust for power, arrogance and pride of position, the craving to adorn oneself with luxurious clothes and vain ornaments, the itch for human glory which is a source of rancour and resentment, and physical fear. Where these passions cease to be active, there the world is dead; for though living in the flesh, they did not live for the flesh. See for which of these passions you are alive. Then you will know how far you are alive to the world, and how far you are dead to it” - Saint Isaac the Syrian.



Basically, people are far too comfortable and hedonistic to threaten their stable way of life with serious questions on even the most fundamental questions of science, let alone psy-ops. This is why we need to let go of the idea of a mass awakening that is anything other than a controlled rebellion. There will only ever be a small elite of thinkers willing to overcome the unnatural passions for the sake of truth, and we war with a small group of equally elite thinkers who are bent on maintaining the situation and whose religion is directed towards the absolute and total corruption of themselves and those they influence. Remember what Darth Sidious said to Anakin when he sent him to the Jedi temple? He had to push himself to greater and greater acts of evil in order to grow in the Dark Side. Shortly After Anakin slaughtered the younglings. We are ruled by the equivalent of the Sith, and most people will follow them right into hell if turning back means something as trivial as losing the good opinion of the sheep next to them. Or should I say goat?

We should try to see that we are seeking an eternal truth beyond this world and put our hopes there, doing what we can for this one, not in service to our passions, but for the sake of truth itself, or we will be used as tools just like the revolutionaries of the past were.
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