Truth Movement

How the controlled opposition was designed to be part of the 9/11 hoax

Re: Truth Movement

Postby simonshack on February 29th, 2012, 1:37 am

Thanks, Nonho...

I hope your post answers Upstream's questions too. :)
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Re: Truth Movement

Postby upstream on February 29th, 2012, 1:49 am

Simon and nonho,

Who's decision was it to delete paragraph 3 and 5 from nonhocapito's original post? Why the need to delete?

Image
http://postimage.org/image/4jz967g2x/full/

Do you still believe there is malicious intent in using a proxy, nonho?
Last edited by upstream on February 29th, 2012, 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Truth Movement

Postby nonhocapito on February 29th, 2012, 1:51 am

upstream wrote:
Did those members happen to visit the site behind a proxy?


Simon, I never got a clear answer to this.


Since I have been on this forum, I have learned for sure of at least one user who used proxies to connect to this forum: Fred. I personally checked the IP he connected from on google, and it turned out to belong to a proxy. Easy does it. Of course this does not mean that when a number does not appear to be from behind a proxy, then that user is certainly legit (nor the other way around, because a legit member could use a proxy because he's paranoid). I am sure that agencies or the military have dozens of different ways at their disposal to produce and cover identities across the internet. It certainly would be a lost battle to focus on this.

upstream wrote:Who's decision was it to delete paragraph 3 and 5 from nonhocapito's original post? Why the need to delete?


I was still editing the post after posting it. Sorry, I do that sometimes.
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Postby MarioOnTheFly on March 2nd, 2012, 10:16 am

Simon,

I'm not sure I understood what you ment by your comments on the bomb whitnesses.

I have one question...logic escapes me. Why, if the testimonies are fakes...did they testify to bombs in the lobby when the official account was that planes took down the towers. As far as I know, the official story does not say there were bombs in the lobby ? What would be the point of having actors say there were bombs, and than peddle that to the public ? To create confusion ? To what end...it only created a suspicion in the OS. Didn't they want everybody to believe the OS ?

Thanks

edit:

I would assume some kind of explosives had to be used to take down the towers. Or ?
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Re: Truth Movement

Postby simonshack on March 2nd, 2012, 1:59 pm

Mario,

The "bomb witnesses" (promoted by the fake 9/11 "Truth Movement" ever since day one) were most likely necessary for the following reason:

Since we may assume that the demolition charges made a fair amount of noise for a few seconds (Poof!Poof!Bang!Bang! - just like every conventional demo does), there WOULD be some normal/honest New Yorkers who heard them - and eventually raised questions about this fact.

Now, the perps knew this would be represent a little problem - so they HAD to strongly promote their own high-profile (yet fully controlled and complicit) 'witnesses' to international stardom - such as Willy "BOOM" Rodriguez (the former magician/con artist/and James Randi assistant). The aforementioned honest people would stand no chance to make their voices heard above the loudly, media-promoted fake 'truthers' - while most would be satisfied that the issue was "taken care of" by those '9/11 superstar whistleblowers'...who even had direct access to Dubya himself!

ImageImage

It's really not so difficult to imagine/understand, is it? (after all that we know today, that is!)
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Re:

Postby Makkonen on March 2nd, 2012, 2:17 pm

MarioOnTheFly wrote:To create confusion ? To what end...it only created a suspicion in the OS. Didn't they want everybody to believe the OS ?


Primarily, yes. Of course the majority of people (unfortunately) have believed TOS for whatever reason, but for the few potential dissidents/skeptics there needed to be a plan on how to lead them astray as well. Thus was born the premeditated Truth Movement. While some of it may seem to contain promising leads, they lead to a dead-end. However, I don't want to sound too all-knowing and righteous here, as I myself was sucked into the TM too, but luckily, after being frustrated with a myriad of "leads", learning and realizing that the towers were mostly/totally empty was obviously a key turning point. You then go from speculating on a hundred different things to hard evidence (CGI animations, simulated victims, actors reading scripts, etc.) with two swift strokes of the Occam's Razor - September Clues and the Cluesforum. :)
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Re: Truth Movement

Postby Makkonen on March 2nd, 2012, 3:18 pm

About William Rodriguez:

As Simon pointed out, there is such an elaborate narrative for Mr Rodriguez that it doesn't really seem all that innocent/spontaneous.

To further prove this point, searching for William Rodriguez on YouTube brings up such dramatic, theatrical-sounding videos that a red flag has to be put up: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... +rodriguez

Titles bestowed upon Rodriguez:

"The Last Man Out"
"The Last Man Standing"
"Hero of 9/11"

When a public figure connected to 9/11 is venerated (or in some cases scorned) in such a bizarrely dramatic and enthusiastic manner, all systems should be on alert. Just how many times have we heard of a sim or an actor, "Hero of 9/11"? :lol:

Rodriguez is a good example of what I would call the "Wikileaks synergy": that surprisingly, despite the instance/person apparently being (vehemently) "anti-establishment", the establishment has no problem whatsoever feverishly promoting said instance/person! Curious, ain't it..? Image


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIC0Kl4TKoU

Story indeed ;) :

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIZtqKiidlo


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugiZWPyaQio

"Conversion to Islam" :lol: :

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1b0F2X2tNg

I suppose I needn't put anything else up, but let's just say... all of that and this...

Image
:lol:

Image
Image



...and yet:

Image
Image

Image
Last edited by Makkonen on March 2nd, 2012, 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

Postby MarioOnTheFly on March 2nd, 2012, 3:29 pm

Makkonen wrote:
Primarily, yes. Of course the majority of people (unfortunately) have believed TOS for whatever reason, but for the few potential dissidents/skeptics there needed to be a plan on how to lead them astray as well. Thus was born the premeditated Truth Movement. While some of it may seem to contain promising leads, they lead to a dead-end. :)


Firstly, thanks guys for clarifying your views. As I said in my introductory post, most of my online writing is based on common sense. In that light, if we take in to account that bombs/charges were used and heard by the innocent onlookers, wouldn't it be counter productive for the whole scam to be even remotely associated with the "real plan"...which obviously did include bombs. So, even if leads led to nowhere, people tend to believe video eye witness testimony, and thus believers that bombs were used are born. Isn't that too close to truth for comfort ? Even today...with the whole truth movement behind it...I see OS apologist simply saying that some heard bombs...some didn't, and the powers that be don't feel the need to address those issues...simply ignore them. So if it works today, it would work even better with just a couple of nobodies claiming some bomb sounds were heard. But no...they went further to back up that claim...putting up actor/firemen claiming that they heard a series of successive smaller explosions just before towers went down? I having a bit of trouble with this. It does not sound logical to me that they would do this if they wanted to cover their tracks. But I'm definately not a specialist in psyops. Maybe there is some twisted logic in that that my puny brain can not grasp.

As for towers being empty...a few questions about that. Since you say that nobody probably died...we have to assume that:

1. All the floors from the point of missle impact to the top had to be emptied prior to the attack. Anybody still on the floor of impact would have probably died, and anybody above that floor would have been trapped and eventually died in the collapse.

2. After the missle impact, fire alarm was sounded and all occupants were evacuated from the towers...all occupants under the impact floors. They had plenty of time...almost an hour from the impact.


It was tuesday morning if I'm not mistaken, around ninish. I'm in Croatia. At that time everybody is at work in my country, don't know about America though. So where were all those people that worked on the floors above the impact point on the first tower? If they were evacuated...there would have to be some reason for evacuating people before the impact in order for nobody to die ? Surely people that worked on those floors would have came out and said that somebody evacuated them before the impact ?


Maybe you guys already covered those issues...I'm new here so I haven't been able to go through all of your extensive documentation here.

Thanks
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Re: Re:

Postby Makkonen on March 2nd, 2012, 4:14 pm

MarioOnTheFly wrote:In that light, if we take in to account that bombs/charges were used and heard by the innocent onlookers, wouldn't it be counter productive for the whole scam to be even remotely associated with the "real plan"...which obviously did include bombs. So, even if leads led to nowhere, people tend to believe video eye witness testimony, and thus believers that bombs were used are born. Isn't that too close to truth for comfort ? Even today...with the whole truth movement behind it...I see OS apologist simply saying that some heard bombs...some didn't, and the powers that be don't feel the need to address those issues...simply ignore them. So if it works today, it would work even better with just a couple of nobodies claiming some bomb sounds were heard. But no...they went further to back up that claim...putting up actor/firemen claiming that they heard a series of successive smaller explosions just before towers went down? I having a bit of trouble with this. It does not sound logical to me that they would do this if they wanted to cover their tracks. But I'm definately not a specialist in psyops. Maybe there is some twisted logic in that that my puny brain can not grasp.


In hindsight, I should have been more specific about what I meant by the TM leading into all sorts of dead-ends. The TM has put the OS claim of "thousands of victims" at its core and never questioned it. And thus if the discussion of the reality of the alleged victims is off-limits, then so must be the question of whether 9/11 was a complete and utter hoax. The TM tries to reject or even deride these questions so that the conversation stays on a plethora of red herrings, keeping the TM "relevant" and financially viable.



As for towers being empty...a few questions about that. Since you say that nobody probably died...we have to assume that:

1. All the floors from the point of missle impact to the top had to emptied prior to the attack. Anybody still on the floor of impact would have probably died, and anybody above that floor would have been trapped and eventually died in the collapse.


Yes. There were no victims and obviously nobody working in those top floors. There is still some debate as to whether there were a handful of people in the lowest parts of the WTCs who were then evacuated as soon as the "event" began. But indeed: no real victims, only simulated ones.



2. After the missle impact, fire alarm was sounded and all occupants were evacuated from the towers...all occupants under the impact floors. They had plenty of time...almost an hour from the impact.


Yes, this is plausible in the possibility there were still a handful of people in the lowest floors.



It was tuesday morning if I'm not mistaken, around ninish. I'm in Croatia. At that time everybody is at work in my country, don't know about America though. So where were all those people that worked on the floors above the impact point on the first tower? If they were evacuated...there would have to be some reason for evacuating people before the impact in order for nobody to die ? Surely people that worked on those floors would have came out and said that somebody evacuated them before the impact ?


The WTC complex was as much part of the hoax as anything else. Ever since the first "terror attack" on WTC (the 1993 one) - or maybe even before it? - there had been a concerted effort to empty it from most of its residents in preparation for the gigantic hoax of 2001. The WTC buildings were redundant and asbestos-filled, thus in need of demolition, so not many would have wanted to be there anyway. Since the general public didn't know much of anything about the WTC, it was always going to be relatively easy to keep up the impression of a massively occupied "economic powerhouse" of NY, which of course ultimately played into the widespread notion of "thousands of victims" on 9/11, when the reality was anything but to begin with.
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Re: Re:

Postby MarioOnTheFly on March 2nd, 2012, 6:41 pm

Makkonen wrote:
The WTC complex was as much part of the hoax as anything else. Ever since the first "terror attack" on WTC (the 1993 one) - or maybe even before it? - there had been a concerted effort to empty it from most of its residents in preparation for the gigantic hoax of 2001. The WTC buildings were redundant and asbestos-filled, thus in need of demolition, so not many would have wanted to be there anyway. Since the general public didn't know much of anything about the WTC, it was always going to be relatively easy to keep up the impression of a massively occupied "economic powerhouse" of NY, which of course ultimately played into the widespread notion of "thousands of victims" on 9/11, when the reality was anything but to begin with.



so you are saying that you know for a fact those floors were empty...? something like 15 floors to the top...? Is there a record of this?

I would like to see the puppet masters of this fiasco...
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Re: Re:

Postby Makkonen on March 2nd, 2012, 6:52 pm

MarioOnTheFly wrote:so you are saying that you know for a fact those floors were empty...? something like 15 floors to the top...? Is there a record of this?


Obviously any "official" documentation for this kind of thing is hard to obtain, but since all of the victims were simulated entities, it is correct to deduce that the towers had to be by and far mostly or even totally empty.
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Re: Re:

Postby MarioOnTheFly on March 2nd, 2012, 9:01 pm

Makkonen wrote:
Obviously any "official" documentation for this kind of thing is hard to obtain, but since all of the victims were simulated entities, it is correct to deduce that the towers had to be by and far mostly or even totally empty.


Did a little search on wiki concerning what you said. I found this under little Larry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverstein_Properties)...

World Trade Center
During the 1990s, New York was suffering from the effects of the 1987 stock market crash, which led to high vacancy rates at the World Trade Center. George Pataki became Governor of New York in 1995 on a campaign of cutting costs, including privatizing the World Trade Center. A sale of the property was considered too complex, so it was decided by the Port Authority to open a 99-year lease to competitive bidding.


It appears there is a high probability that there were many vacancies during the time in question...
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Re: Re:

Postby Makkonen on March 2nd, 2012, 9:18 pm

MarioOnTheFly wrote:It appears there is a high probability that there were many vacancies during the time in question...


Yes. Even if the WTC wasn't emptied right after 1993, it was in the works (definitely number one on the perps' WTC to-do list Image).
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Re: Truth Movement

Postby Makkonen on March 2nd, 2012, 9:22 pm

And obviously, since the WTC had to be rigged for demolition, it was necessary to get most people out of there before doing so.
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Re: Truth Movement

Postby nonhocapito on March 3rd, 2012, 12:48 am

About the hilarious, inspiring and surreal connection between con-man William "janitor" Rodriguez and the great "debunker" ex-magician anti-magician James Randi, I recently found this in the acknowledgments to James Randi's book "The Faith Healers":

As for the conjurors who generously gave me their time, Willy Rodriguez is a clever devil who dared much for me


I don't think the word "conjurors" is here being used metaphorically either. <_<

I still haven't browsed through "The Faith Healers". It is a 1987 book where Randi famously exposes many tricks of false doctors shamans and magicians and where, i guess, moralizes against the gullibility of people. :P

It must be noted that the book also comes with a foreword by Carl Sagan, another "great debunker" scientist, whose name I recently encountered being mentioned as his favorite author by major swiss-italian shill/agent Paolo Attivissimo.

Tout se tient...
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