The MOON HOAX

If NASA faked the moon landings, does the agency have any credibility at all? Was the Space Shuttle program also a hoax? Is the International Space Station another one? Do not dismiss these hypotheses offhand. Check out our wider NASA research and make up your own mind about it all.

Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 3:21 pm

A Spacesuit Ballet

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA5dYUqJGbw
What's up with the color of the people in the background of the Kennedy Moon speech clip at the start of the video?
Why does part of the background crowd look black and white? Hard to tell without seeing the original film or a nice clean transfer, but it could be just a photographic darkroom mistake I suppose.

Notice how mobile the astronauts are in these suits. See 1:36.
Last edited by ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 5:46 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 3:22 pm

Space Suit Design

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4pHXz0dUBE
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 3:23 pm

Astronaut Training At Moses Lake 1

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Z0a6Nvoxk
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 3:24 pm

Model Investigation of Techniques for Apollo Lunar Module Landing Impact Tests 1965 NASA color 4min

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTt1PLVTIAs
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 3:43 pm

Compare this footage and the lack of background parallax, to Simon's brilliant deconstruction of the Zapruder film. The background mountains are clearly a 'Hollywood' screen.
LRV on the Moon - Apollo 16 - HD Video Stabilized

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cKpzp358F4

Shot on a film set. This footage was never meant to be viewed stabilized. Note to how the surface of the Moon here does not resemble the glowing sphere we sees when we look up into the sky.
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby hoi.polloi on October 11th, 2015, 9:08 pm

ProperGander, can you please summarize the last four or five videos you posted (along with your thoughts or context for watching them) so that readers can understand what you are saying by posting them? Thank you.
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 9:22 pm

When I was initially doing research on this subject I cam across the argument that the video was not simply being played back at half speed, that it was not a hoax as it clearly appeared to be, but that the spacesuits had restricted the motion of the astronauts. This argument was used to support the idea that the gravity was 1/6th as theorized, and the suits restricted illustration of this fact. These videos show otherwise. The videos posted on the prior page shows the harness and rig set up they used to simulate the Lunar gravity as theorized. This is an example of the actual and visible engineering that NASA either did themselves or had commissioned.

The book Suiting Up for Space: The Evolution of the Space Suit by Lloyd Mallan points out that the suits were at a 95% 'nude range' or something to that effect. The next generation suits would be even better. This was supposed to mean that the astronauts would have no problems moving about. It would be as if they were in normal clothes, or close to it. It will be interesting to see how the story changes, if at all, with a potential Mars journey possibly in the works.
(Or any other silly NASA enterprise.)

A lot of effort and work went into the Apollo and other NASA programs and I think it well worth doing as much research into it as one can, so one really understands how and why it was a fake event. There are patents for things like multi color disc based video cameras and so on. It is a fascinating subject, it is like learning how a magician creates the wonderful illusions that enthrall the crowd. I posted a few of these videos so the researcher could easily look at them for themselves. Others might see something in them that they find useful that I did not. Plus some of the designs are interesting to look at and see working. It is art.

The last clip is the Moon buggy clip where we can clearly see the effects of Earth gravity and the lack of anything close to a vacuum, plus the above mentioned lack of a real mountainous background. The motion stabilization really gives the illusion away, just like it does with the Zapruder film. These clips were never meant to be viewed in the manner we view them today. The public has to easy access to the tools that can be used to either make these creations or decipher them.

The model of the Lunar Lander impact tests is just neat. ;) I like old school model work.
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby roastrunner on October 15th, 2015, 6:01 pm

I came across a complete copy of Bill Kaysing's interview to Bart Sibrel in 1996/97:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJxHnpa90w4

It's about an hour long. Parts of this interview have made their way into various videos of various quality over the years, along with some other interviews Kaysing has given, but this un-cut version is the longest I've seen him talk about his days at Rocketdyne as a technical report writer.

While there's a wealth of information regarding Apollo, which pretty much has to be put out of its misery at this point, what I found more interesting was the context that these "rocket boys" were working in. Namely, from his perspective, the nation's best and brightest at Rocketdyne and Boeing were treating NASA contracts as blank checks, getting drunk on the job, chasing girls, fabricating test results, etc. Not the clean-cut engineers you would expect to be working day and night to beat the Russians to the moon. I know Kaysing alluded to this in his book where he talked about engineers stationed in Nevada bringing showgirls in from Las Vegas on the taxpayer's dime (giving them high security clearances in the process), but this interview is more interesting to me in that he goes in to more depth.

The big picture here is that, in all likelihood, most huge, multi-faceted, secretive, well funded government military projects are probably similarly run. Hence we're constantly building newer and better missile defense systems after the previous ones fail to work, etc. (http://graphics.latimes.com/missile-defense)

Btw, if this doesn't qualify as an insider blowing the whistle on the moon landings, what would?
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby Farcevalue on December 12th, 2015, 6:45 pm

Meet Hiten - The Space Shack!

(Okay, the spelling is not exact, but close enough methinks ;) )

Image

Part of the Muses Program (it's all falling into place or space), the Hiten demonstrated the first ever aerobraking technique by a deep space probe, which was concluded after the ninth swing by and the second aerobrake. The resemblance to a futuristic snare drum is purely coincidental, I am sure.

This was happening in the nineties according to Wiki, so the synchronicity of chronological syntax is suspect. But I would have to see it in a hard copy of an early version of the Encyclopedia Britannica to be convinced they are not pulling someone's chain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiten
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby simonshack on December 12th, 2015, 7:43 pm

Farcevalue wrote:This was happening in the nineties according to Wiki, so the synchronicity of chronological syntax is suspect. But I would have to see it in a hard copy of an early version of the Encyclopedia Britannica to be convinced they are not pulling someone's chain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiten


:lol: Hilarious, dear Farcevalue - as doubtful as it is. Well, if it's as you suspect (a play on Hytten) - I'd be highly honored!
Hi-five to you for the find! Image Oh wait, that's ten fingers slapping - so that would be a Hi-ten!
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Postby ICfreely on March 3rd, 2016, 1:10 am

My Jewish neighbor in Iran, Mr. Lovine, was also my grandfather’s lifelong friend, business partner and attorney. The first time I asked him what he did for a living he said, “You tell me the whole truth & leave the lying up to me. That’s what I do!” B)

A few months before the 1985 Tehran bombings Mr. Lovine drove me to my grandfather’s house near Laleh Park. Gramps had the looks of Spencer Tracy and persona of John Wayne. Both he and Mr. Lovine donned 3-piece suits every day of their adult lives. We went to the backyard where gramps was gardening (picture Don Corleone & Hyman Roth). As usual, we got into a deep political conversation. I was cheerleading for America. Told them of all the cool things I’d seen in America (Disneyland, etc.). They weren’t impressed so I played the ‘Apollo’ card.

Me: If Iran is so great why can’t it put men on the moon like America?
Them: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Me: :unsure: :huh:
Mr. Lovine: Don’t be silly, kid! Nobody’s been to the moon.

They proceeded to tell me the tale of Mohsen Hashtroodi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohsen_Hashtroodi

Two days after the Apollo 11 production Dr. Hashtroodi voiced his doubts in Keyhan International. He claimed rockets couldn’t escape Earth’s atmosphere. He also noted Von Braun’s ‘Empire State Building’ quote. Suffice to say, it created a big uproar across the country. Newspaper sales doubled!

The Shah personally met with him and told him to ixnay on the akeryfay. Dr. Hashtroodi told the Shah he was prepared to debate NASA’s scientists. The Shah pulled some strings & got him fired. Also, Keyhan International’s Hashtroodi articles were censored in the United States & Europe. In response, the professor began teaching his students from his home. After all, there was no law against him hosting a daily ‘get together.’ This lasted for a month until the Shah decided to reinstate him.

At the time he was earning $700/month (a respectable salary - currency conversion & inflation adjusted). The fine folks at NASA, instead of taking up his challenge to debate, offered him a senior position for $10,000/month!

He refused!

The Shah met with him again & asked him to reconsider. A prominent Iranian professor working for NASA would be great for Iran’s image & the salary wasn’t too shabby either. The professor said, “All over the world 2+2=4 but in America it’s either 3 or 5. Their purported accomplishments are purely theoretical & have no basis in reality. I’m not willing to sell my soul! As a result, a few years later he was ‘retired’ early.

How do I know of the conversations that took place between the Shah & the professor?

The Shah’s wife’s Uncle lived across the street from my grandfather. Both my grandfather & Mr. Lovine were present for those meetings.


CM,

Not sure if this post belongs here. Move it to the 'Apollo' thread, derail or delete as you see fit.
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby fubarfuthark on March 3rd, 2016, 11:33 am

ICFreely: Absolutely fascinating story. Utterly first rate. You grew up in Iran?

I know I covered it in the total mess of a thread I made when I was trying to get my thoughts together about the the links between Islamic space programs, Charlie Hebdo, the Raelians, Queen, ex-nazi occultists, Syrians in Space, the Berlin Airdrop, the Book of ISAIAH (Israel Space Agency Investigation About Hornets) and Turkish transhuman creationist sex cults. But do you know of this person?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anousheh_Ansari
and her appearance in the film
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepideh_%28film%29

This has 'Iranian Nuclear Psy-op' written all over it.

In any case, the idea that the Iranian people were more aware of the moon hoax back than the rest of the world, back in the days of the Shah touches on something that I have been wondering about for some time, namely, did the Islamic world, broadly speaking, and specifically during the cold war, not really fall for the Apollo hoax/space race? And was this an intentional move by the perps in order that they would not 'lose their faith' and join the church of scientism like their western/christian brethren, thus setting up a long-view development with regards the fake 'clash of civilisations'?

Bearing in mind that that the crescent moon IS the symbol of islam and that the houses of the moon are said to relate to the 99 names of god (I am not repeating the Allah=Moon God slander here), perhaps a lot of muslims in the middle east were taught that this is all simply nonsense and America is the Great Satan and is lying. To be fair, this IS basically true.

As in such arrangements
http://www.islamiccircle.co.uk/wp-conte ... 38qo4d.jpg
The likes of this are seen a lot on people's walls. I might be wrong in thinking that some such arrangements are based on the moon.

http://moonsighting.com/articles/roleofislam.html
This is a strange article. It exhorts muslims to study astronomy by, of all things, quoting Richard Feynman! The list of things that Feynman dabbled with...Superfluid Helium, Quantum Computing, Nanotechnology, was on the panel of the Rogers Commision that investigated the Challenger crash. Mostly arrant nonsense. Feynman's wickedpedo article also, like Baruch Blumberg's, mentions his love of the Talmud.

a quote at the end of the article
The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has said “ Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave”. Islam is about a lifetime of learning. A lifetime of learning means we can never know or understand everything. It is a dynamic process and we must continue to strive at all times.
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Postby simonshack on March 3rd, 2016, 12:29 pm

ICfreely wrote:Me: If Iran is so great why can’t it put men on the moon like America?
Them: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Me: :unsure: :huh:
Mr. Lovine: Don’t be silly, kid! Nobody’s been to the moon.

Am lovin' it... But hey, naysayers (moon-landing-believers) might say : "Duh - Mr Lovine just told you that he lies for a living!".. :P

Mohsen Hashtroodi certainly seems to have been a fascinating / exceptional individual. I found this excerpt from one of his speeches - on the Mo-Ha website dedicated to this evidently wise man far ahead of his times (he passed away in 1976):

“The subject I am to speak about may seem weird. You see the progress of knowledge and technology has made life more difficult than in the past, this reminds us of Bertrand Russell’s description of the future as a scientific hell. No doubt, we will have more difficult and miserable lives if brutal sciences are going to govern our societies. Technology may bring more comfort, wealth, and well-being but will also make life very complex and hard, because happiness comes from a mystery that is different from close to the path of science.

Bertrand Russell had predicted this scientific hell – and we stand at the threshold of such a hell in the world. However a solution can be found in art and ethics. Therefore humanity must go back to the dawn of human thought.

We know that human relations were based on emotions thousands of years ago. Modern logical relations have resulted from economy, science, and technology. These technological changes were introduced in our history only in the 20th century resulting in the creation of logical relation among humans. Although logic manages comfort and well-being with set criteria, happiness is the result of interdependence of human beings, say, individuals need to love and to be loved and this won’t be achieved without emotional relations.

I want to emphasize why seeking the dawn of human consciousness is important at the end of the 20th century; it is critical to trace the reasons for today’s problems. It is not enough to say that developing destructive Weapons and military equipment is the main cause. No scientist planned to make bombs and drop them on civilians when he split the atom. This is a claim by world politicians and world conquerors. It is obvious that we can use any means in a good or bad way. Art may be used against society or vice versa; but neither is the mission of art. The same is true for science; its mission is just to discover the unknown, to determine and distinguish between true or false.

It is wrong to state that the spread of wars and massacres is due to advanced weapons; the outbreak of wars is a consequence of the lack of love and emotional relations in human life. Development of knowledge was achieved at the expense of morality and art, and the unfair undeliberate guilt of scientists should be paid for with the tears of another innocent called artist. This is why artists seem worried and anxious, for they are more attentive to emotional relations (…).

http://www.mo-ha.com/testimony-of-a-for ... io-tehran/


Wow. Where are all the modern-day Mohsen Hashtroodis? Why is it that - nearly every time I learn / get to know about such great persons - they are almost always long dead? Perhaps we could dedicate a thread on this forum to seek out and discuss our contemporary / still-alive-and-kicking Hashtroodis (and similar exceptional men of integrity) in order to at least gather in one place the 'message and spirit' of individuals (who may not even know each other) that may make a true difference in restoring some sanity in this silly world ? See, I sometimes have the feeling that Cluesforum (myself included, of course!) spends too much time pointing out and picking apart the bad / sad / appalling things surrounding our lives - and too little time highlighting the good / propitious / invigorating aspects, outlooks and people of our times. I can see several members of this forum collaborating and uniting their combined, wide-ranging knowledge to do just that.

***********
One thing however - regarding Hashtroodi - leaves me a bit puzzled / confused : as I surfed around the interwebs, I bumped into the following tidbits:

On the same page linked above, one of his former students is quoted as saying that ...
"(...) Dr. Hashtroudi established some institutes such as the IMS and the Iran Space Centre."

On another site - Iranian.com - under an article hailing the (alleged) Iranian space / satellite program - a commenter writes:

"The first communication satellite was obtained by shah's regime in early 70's. Tehran's observatory was set up during shah's regime. The first space club, investigating various rocket fuels and translating related documents began working in mid 70's. First rockets and telescopes were purchased and assembled and tested in mid 70's by the space club. Their publication was called Faza with cooperation from academics and university students, specifically the late Professor Hashtroudi. All of this were aborted by the revolution."
http://iranian.com/main/blog/daryush/am ... space.html


And under another (hilarious) article titled "Did Einstein convert to Islam?" - at the AEI (American Enterprise Institute) website, a commenter writes (in response to another comment listing an array of prominent Muslim scientists) :

"You forgot to name Dr. Hashtroudi as the main scientist in Soviet program of spacecraft launch into space.He was a muslim and a shia."
https://www.aei.org/publication/did-ein ... -to-islam/

Surely not the same prof. Hashtroudi / Hashtroodi - who knew and said that "rockets cannot escape Earth’s atmosphere"? :huh:
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby ICfreely on March 3rd, 2016, 4:58 pm

simonshack wrote:Am lovin' it... But hey, naysayers (moon-landing-believers) might say : "Duh - Mr Lovine just told you that he lies for a living!"..


He was one of the wisest people I've ever known. He was an honest lawyer (liar). A hard concept for you to grasp?

simonshack wrote:One thing however - regarding Hashtroodi - leaves me a bit puzzled / confused : as I surfed around the interwebs, I bumped into the following tidbits:On the same page linked above, one of his former students is quoted as saying that ... "(...) Dr. Hashtroudi established some institutes such as the IMS and the Iran Space Centre."


Just because NASA is fake doesn't mean people should stop trying to explore. You have to remember that those conversations took place in 1969. He wasn't a god standing atop Mt. Olympus - knowing & seeing all. As a mathematician his worldview was obviously skewed. Turning down $10K/month from NASA & publicly calling them out is commendable in my book. BTW, he's not my hero. My only hero in life is my father. Maybe if all fathers started acting like real men & stepped up to the plate the world wouldn't be such a fucked up place.

Fuck it. It's so much easier to blame Jews, Jesuits, Masons and all other kinds of boogeymen for our own shortcomings!

I'm not sure what you're getting at Simon. Would you prefer we stick strictly to sourcing/citing rather than providing insight? Your bulldog does a great job of citing wiki to back up his unsubstantiated beliefs. Maybe if I follow his lead I'll move up the 'Dean's List.'


P.S.

I could tell you some of my firsthand experiences with Masons & Jesuits that'll make you shit your pantaloons, muchacho! What I've shared so far is only the tip of the iceberg. The thing is, I have to gauge where you and everyone else are at in order to determine what I can say and how I can say it. The quantum probability of you coming across another person like me is slim to none! I'm not about to apologize for shattering anyone's illusions of reality.
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Re: The MOON HOAX

Postby Critical Mass on March 3rd, 2016, 5:52 pm

ICfreely wrote: The thing is, I have to gauge where you and everyone else are at in order to determine what I can say and how I can say it. The quantum probability of you coming across another person like me are slim to none. I'm not about to apologize for shattering anyone's illusions of reality.

Cluesforum is a place where people are meant to post evidence for neutral researchers... my advice to you would be just "post your evidence".

If you don't think it's appropriate for neutral researchers then just post it in the chatbox... and if any criticism comes your way then take it on the chin "like a man" with "big balls" (I myself have have had posts sent to the derailing room & threads locked... it's REALLY not an issue in the grand scheme of things).


I, for one, absolutely love your story about Mohsen Hashtroodi... however what is a neutral researcher meant to make of it?

It's "hear say" of "hear say" at best (I must reinforce that I personally believe that you're telling the truth).

Right now ANY neutral researcher can read up (and indeed listen to) stories of David "flat Earth" Weiss's best friend who died on 9/11 or Simons late father who saw what we now call satellites pre-1957.

How is a neutral researcher meant to make sense of this?


They must, inevitably, do so by evaluating for themselves each particular piece of evidence.


Also please remember that, right now, one can find "research" that "proves" that me, you & Simon are the same physical person pretending to be debating amongst themselves.

We're, clearly, not the same person... we're just honest individuals trying to get to the bottom of all of this obvious fraud.


Can you provide more details for a neutral researcher (and I don't know about you but I like to think of myself as a neutral researcher)?

I would suggest acquiring a copy of the actual July 22 1969 Keyhan International article for starters but I'm sure you could come up with more.
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