Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Discussing the most relevant "sequels" or "reminders" of 9/11. The so-called "War On Terror" is a global scam finalized to manipulate this world's population with crass fear-mongering tactics designed to scare you shitless.

Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby hoi.polloi on June 19th, 2016, 10:16 pm

nonhocapito wrote:
hoi.polloi wrote:It was maybe done with some cursory understanding of graphology but it is not a skilled forgery. The major clue is the poor variance in letter style, such that the letters are individually crafted (to roughly resemble one another) rather than written holistically as a learned hand does. It is very much as though it were copied from a script letter by letter, which would include deliberately misspelled words, and they were still figuring out the artificial "character" of their own handwriting.
(...)
Unfortunately, most people will glance at this crude graphic and think it's evidence that something on paper actually exists and it is what it's purported to be.


I don't see what you describe but that's just because I know nothing of graphology. Can I ask... where does your knowledge of graphology come from?


25 Years of personal experience in creating and writing text, in editing manuscripts and writings of people of various ages, in graphic editing, letter design and book making, along with 15 of those years doing it professionally and heavily networking in a community of artists with similar interests and sharp, highly competitive levels of criticism regarding anything related to it. It is essentially my life and has been since my fascination with it at age 8. If you want me to consult more people like myself, I'd be happy to ask them, but I am confident they would agree with me that it's a very suspicious document if I showed them part of this without telling them the context. And unfortunately, any confidence that this gives you (that I know what I'm talking about) is of course self-imbued.

Graphology is kind of a joke and controversial as a term, and so perhaps I should not have used that word, but I feel people understand what I mean when I say that instead of referring to "Exemplars" (which, in this case, we don't have, though a forgery for an operation of this size could easily use the same crew to forge a number of minor documents; coming up with signatures, etc.) or anything else related to forensics, which sounds like the average person cannot access this level of analysis for themselves.

I don't have experience with art in a courtroom setting, but I have experience with graphic artistry itself, and loads of creative minds who manipulate graphics and text to form the basis for cultural works. So to sort of pitifully answer your question, knowing full well it doesn't really help you "see" what I've described (no pun intended), my experience in analyzing countless pages of hand-written text and text art comes from this personal experience in the techniques of hand-written text for both artistic and practical use. This is why people trying to compare Simon's cartooning style and my own make me laugh out loud. Of course, it's not a joke for amateurs who think our styles are similar by putting stroke against stroke. It's like those people who try to say Welsh is the same language as Mandan because there are a few "friend" words: http://www.languagegeek.com/siouan/mand ... welsh.html

My belief is this "Omar" letter is an artistically directed, creative work, and not the casual hand writing of a slightly unskilled person.

If we must believe it was done by the alleged signer, "Omar Mateen", or even a forger, they must have had an artistic fascination with integrating various writing styles into a singular purpose. That is, curbing default habits into an affected style that is incongruent with the natural habits of the hand. An affectation for the authority reading? I highly doubt it. I am with SacredCowSlayer in the sense that the premise of the existence of the document in this form is doubtful too. In that case, we may ask, why not a typed letter? Something less open to such scrutiny?

Well, why so many mistakes in the photo manipulations we've caught, too? They don't mind as long as the average person is already looking at it with fear, trepidation and consideration to take it for what we're told it is rather than wondering: hmm, how hard would this document be to fake, with present technology?

Forged letters? The oldest trick in the book next to rolling a borrowed seal. Kids do it to get out of school. But occasionally, an actual call to the parents is required to confirm the letter was written by them. In this case, I would ask you to dial up the "parents" in your head and ask if it passes for you.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby MrSinclair on June 20th, 2016, 4:01 am

brianv wrote:
Why does the top half of "his" head always look like it's in one room, while the bottom half is in another?

What's Max Headroom in Yiddish?



That's quite funny and accurate about his head.

According to the online translator Max Headroom is max kop tsimer
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby mnew9 on June 20th, 2016, 10:21 am

This "eyewitness" interview is pure comedy. The witness in question decided to try and escape the club "after a good 10-20 rounds" were fired, apparently saw a large bullet sticking out of someone's leg and actually held club doors shut as people were trying to escape the shooter. :wacko: Yet he doesn't seem the slightest bit traumatized by the whole experience. :D What a hero!! :puke:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Agt0A1Fcrg
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby nonhocapito on June 20th, 2016, 11:11 am

Thanks, Hoi. Of course it was not my intention to argue that that letter was credible in any sense. But without anything to compare it to (i.e. a piece of "authentic" writing of this non-person) I would have thought it a bit difficult to make such an informed assessment. Yes the writing looks a bit unnatural, but I imagine that this imaginary boy would have himself copied the text from the one provided by the family lawyer, printing letter-by-letter the words he did not understand. The final result being probably the last of multiple drafts in very bad handwriting. Anyway it matters little, as all this garbage from NYT supports very badly the existence of this hypothetical afghan-half-terrorist-half-gay-armed-american.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby Farcevalue on June 20th, 2016, 12:03 pm

mnew9 wrote:This "eyewitness" interview is pure comedy. The witness in question decided to try and escape the club "after a good 10-20 rounds" were fired, apparently saw a large bullet sticking out of someone's leg and actually held club doors shut as people were trying to escape the shooter. :wacko: Yet he doesn't seem the slightest bit traumatized by the whole experience. :D What a hero!! :puke:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Agt0A1Fcrg


Facts on noise levels:
1. Decibels measure sound pressure and are logarithmic. That means that only a 3db increase almost doubles sound pressure, a 6db increase quadruples sound pressure, etc.
2. Gradual hearing loss may occur after prolonged exposure to 90 decibels or above.
3. Exposure to 100 decibels for more than 15 minutes can cause hearing loss.
4. Exposure to 110 decibels for more than a minute can cause permanent hearing loss.
5. At 140 dBA noise causes immediate injury to almost any unprotected ear.
6. There is also the more extreme ‘acoustic trauma’, which is an immediate loss of hearing after a sudden, exceptionally loud noise such as an explosion.

Comparative noise levels and length of time for damage to occur
Jet engine taking off 140 dB Instant damage
Thunder/Ambulance siren 119 dB 3 minutes
Hammer drill 113 dB 15 minutes
Chain saw/Earphones/Concert 110 dB 30 minutes
Bull Dozer 105 dB 1 hour
Tractor/Power tools 96 dB 4 hour
Hairdryer/lawnmower 90 dB 8 hours

Noise levels of firearms:
.22 caliber rifle 130dB
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18" barrel 155.5dB

-http://m14forum.com/hearing/78442-various-noise-levels-firearms.html

A quick Google search of the term "concert rider SPL guarantee" will return results ranging from 110 to 115 db. There is no universal legal standard for SPL levels in clubs, but the consensus among AV installation contractors is that the limits in clubs range from 110 to 120 db on the high side.

There have been a number of comments by "witnesses" about how the gunshots were initially perceived as part of the music, but the db scale is logarithmic, with the perceived level of loudness DOUBLING for every 3 db of increase in SPL (Sound Pressure Level).

The idea of a volley of 155 db gunshots being perceived as part of the mix of the 110 db recorded ambience is ludicrous in the extreme, not unlike failing to notice a wheelbarrow in a birthday cake. The effect of the first reports of a rifle in that situation would have been utter pandemonium with the frantic patrons bolting for one of the seven exits they would have had to pass on the way to hide in the restrooms, where they then huddled and trembled while the shooter emptied and exchanged dozens of magazines, except when he was making one of his 16 phone calls or checking Facebook for updates on the status of his spree.

Yes, the story starts as a parody of itself.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby Farcevalue on June 20th, 2016, 12:45 pm

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/the-final- ... -massacre/

Speaking of parody:

According to the timeline in the article linked above, the siege started at 2 am, beginning with the "suspect/shooter" engaging in gun battles with a security guard and shortly thereafter with police reinforcements, who force him into a bathroom where he was then involved in hostage negotiations via cell phone for 3 hours until the wall was breached, ending the episode at 5 am.

Oh, and on the way to the bathroom while evading cops and returning fire in his second gun battle he shot over 100 patrons killing 49. I $#!t you not.

The End.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby CluedIn on June 20th, 2016, 2:24 pm

The TV show "The Voice" seems to have an integral role in all of this. First Grimmie now Jano Fuentes - a Mexico Voice show contestant - shot in his car in Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

Love this quote - Police initially said the man had been pronounced dead soon after the shooting, but he was placed on life support so relatives could arrive from Mexico, according to family and friends. :blink:

Nice Luciferian look he has going here - I especially like the little horn they drew on the right side of his head:

Image

What is with all of these people dressed in white? Innocence? And their tribute is in front of a politicians office? For a minute I thought the pic was taken in Mexico - nope - that's Chica-go!

Image

https://www.gofundme.com/29yfwek

I looked up "Jano" to see if anything relevant popped up - http://janojustice.com/ - which just happens to be an Illinois company.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby brianv on June 20th, 2016, 4:52 pm

Image

A flock of Mehh - xicans.

Stripped of EXIF data.

ELA http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?i ... 47&fmt=ela :wacko:
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby Mickey on June 21st, 2016, 4:24 am

MrSinclair wrote:I think this old adage attributed to Mahatma Gandhi applies here "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. "


Not to be picky, this is an often misattributed quotation, like several others attributed to famous names.

http://www.snopes.com/first-they-ignore-you/ and you can do more research if you wanted.

Seeing this article in the NY Daily News tells me they are past the point of ignoring the hoax debunkers and are getting desperate enough to move to the mocking stage.

"Orlando shooting survivor was target of 'insensitive' conspiracy theories while she recovered from bullet wound"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2678872


They have been mocking since forever.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby SmokeytheBarrister on June 22nd, 2016, 9:17 am

One, as a criminal defense lawyer, I can saw unequivocally that hardly anyone outside the profession uses the word "adjudicate", let alone in the proper context.

That word has a very specific meaning that is only helpful to people who know what it means and its significance, especially as a juvenile case. Moreover, why would a person explain an adjudication with such precision and fail to mention the very likely juvenile probation and how the experience of accountability etc. really helped them etc.? [not that I believe such nonsense, but that's what schools and employers like to hear evidently].


As a fellow criminal defense and juvenile lawyer, I can say you are spot on. "Adjudicate" immediately jumped off of the page. I would venture to say many (if not most) lawyers fail to understand or appreciate the distinction between an adjudication of delinquency and a criminal conviction. As for my teenage clients, it is highly likely they heard the word for the first time from me. The "A" word could come from the clerk's office or from an order of judgment - but why use the fancy "A" word to explain the disposition of the battery charge, then mention in passing that the other charge "was dropped."

Also, why qualify the subsequent altercations as not resulting in contact? I mean, why would a person even mention further altercations? There's no upside to such a comment.


A simple "I have not been in trouble with the school or the law since" would make more sense. It's interesting the "author" seems to be more interested in explaining the not-bad results of his conduct (altercations not resulting in physical contact) than avoiding the issue altogether.

I wonder how many teenagers would refer to their school cop as a "school resource officer?" How many of us as teenagers were involved in "altercations?" I'm sure this teen "exited his motor vehicle" instead of getting out of his car, too. If I didn't know any better, I'd say someone with a background in law enforcement wrote this.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby nonhocapito on June 22nd, 2016, 10:09 am

SmokeytheBarrister wrote:
One, as a criminal defense lawyer, I can saw unequivocally that hardly anyone outside the profession uses the word "adjudicate", let alone in the proper context.

That word has a very specific meaning that is only helpful to people who know what it means and its significance, especially as a juvenile case. Moreover, why would a person explain an adjudication with such precision and fail to mention the very likely juvenile probation and how the experience of accountability etc. really helped them etc.? [not that I believe such nonsense, but that's what schools and employers like to hear evidently].


As a fellow criminal defense and juvenile lawyer, I can say you are spot on. "Adjudicate" immediately jumped off of the page. I would venture to say many (if not most) lawyers fail to understand or appreciate the distinction between an adjudication of delinquency and a criminal conviction. As for my teenage clients, it is highly likely they heard the word for the first time from me. The "A" word could come from the clerk's office or from an order of judgment - but why use the fancy "A" word to explain the disposition of the battery charge, then mention in passing that the other charge "was dropped."

Also, why qualify the subsequent altercations as not resulting in contact? I mean, why would a person even mention further altercations? There's no upside to such a comment.


A simple "I have not been in trouble with the school or the law since" would make more sense. It's interesting the "author" seems to be more interested in explaining the not-bad results of his conduct (altercations not resulting in physical contact) than avoiding the issue altogether.

I wonder how many teenagers would refer to their school cop as a "school resource officer?" How many of us as teenagers were involved in "altercations?" I'm sure this teen "exited his motor vehicle" instead of getting out of his car, too. If I didn't know any better, I'd say someone with a background in law enforcement wrote this.


As I have mentioned above, couldn't this kind of language easily be explained by the fact that the boy would have copied this letter word by word from a model provided by a family lawyer or someone who knew how these things are carried? In any case he would not have made up such letter himself, this is not how it happens in real life. Rather, someone interested in his welfare (parents, a lawyer, etc) would have coached him on how to do it properly, most likely, again, by furnishing a model. This can also account for the non natural look of the handwriting. As to the reason why he would mention the following altercations, it might be because the people to whom the letter was destined were already informed about such episodes.

None of the above is to suggest the letter is true: the letter either way doesn't prove anything and doesn't mean anything, it can only be considered "proof" to an uninformed public fed by mainstream media with "evidence" they will not think of questioning in the first place.

I write this just to suggest possible objections to your arguments.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby mnew9 on June 22nd, 2016, 10:29 am

The Orlando Police Chief John Mina's explanation of certain events at the Pulse nightclub do not make a lot of sense -

At a press conference Monday, Mina told news organizations including the AP that when Mateen arrived at the club around 2 a.m., an officer who was working at Pulse in full uniform "engaged" with the shooter near the entrance.
Additional police officers entered the club after Mateen and another gunbattle ensued, the AP reported. Mateen then retreated into a bathroom filled with clubgoers and the shooting incident became a a hostage situation.

With a goal of breaching the exterior wall of the bathroom where Mateen was last seen, police set up a controlled explosion. Dozens of additional clubgoers were able to escape through the hole in the wall, Mina told the AP.
Mateen exited the building through the same hole and died after exchanging fire with the officers, Mina said.

In an earlier press conference, Mina explained that the reason it took officers nearly three hours to storm the club and kill Mateen was because they had to act cautiously so as not to endanger hostages.
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/ ... ils_g.html

So it appears that the SWAT teams were acting "cautiously so as not to endanger hostages" but then decided to blast holes in the walls of the rooms where they believed Mateen was holding the hostages! :blink:

Also, with "dozens of additional clubgoers" escaping through the holes in panic, how did the police actually know which one was the gunman?
It appears from what the police chief says that Mateen let everyone escape through the walls first and THEN "engaged" with the police in a gunfight. Otherwise how could police have fired shots with clubgoers trying to escape the scene?? :rolleyes:

Going by the picture below, all the blast holes are above ground and going by the size of them it must have taken ages for "dozens" of people to escape through them BEFORE the police allegedly confronted Mateen in a gunfight. As I said, the official story does not make sense! Check out the bullet holes around the blasted holes, fired apparently when Mateen showed himself.
Image
http://ktla.com/2016/06/12/if-you-are-a ... -shooting/
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby CluedIn on June 22nd, 2016, 11:45 am

Youtube Spotlight - this has been up for only 17 hours and has over 4 million views. This is in their "spotlight" section so it may garner more views than a random video. Interesting Thumbs Up: 112,871 Thumbs Down: 150,918 with 4 million plus views.

The pregnant "man" is so touching :puke:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtCyepuLt8Q
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby CluedIn on June 22nd, 2016, 12:07 pm

They are forcing the hospital workers to sign non-disclosure agreements ala SH, BM, etc. I find this photo especially interesting, the release of it being number one - staff signing non-disclosure agreements and they disclose this autopsy photo. ;) Such staging - the "one eye", the white glove of surrender and scissors to cut your tongue out if you dare to speak against us. Also, the crown tat is a nice touch!

https://www.superstation95.com/index.ph ... 90aW5nIl0=

Image
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby Flabbergasted on June 22nd, 2016, 3:08 pm

mnew9 wrote:[...] With a goal of breaching the exterior wall of the bathroom where Mateen was last seen, police set up a controlled explosion. Dozens of additional clubgoers were able to escape through the hole in the wall, Mina told the AP.

In general, images from news sites look weird when you enlarge them, so I may be mistaken, but I´d say the edges of those holes look awfully two-dimensional (shopped) and not like the result of an actual explosion.

Image

If this computer was for sale online, would you buy it?
Image
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