Mavi Marmara and Other Israeli Video Fakery

Discussing the most relevant "sequels" or "reminders" of 9/11. The so-called "War On Terror" is a global scam finalized to manipulate this world's population with crass fear-mongering tactics designed to scare you shitless.

Mavi Marmara and Other Israeli Video Fakery

Postby daddie_o on July 6th, 2016, 1:51 pm

I've been meaning to put this up for awhile, but I saw a video last night about something that just happened in Israel that pushed me over the edge. (I'll post on that next.) Terror attacks in Israel are endless. Some of them jump out at me as obviously fake, while others I am not so sure of. I was hoping to start a thread looking at the imagery of some of them and then seeing what people here think about them as faked or not. In fact, as someone who live in Israel, getting the forum's input on this issue was one of my motivations for joining the forum in the first place.

I'm going to kick the thread off with the Mavi Marmara incident from back in 2010. You may remember that the Mavi Marmara was a ship that led the 2010 attempt to break the Israeli blockage/stranglehold on Gaza. The ship was raided by Israeli commandos who were attacked by the passengers. Several passengers were shot, some died. Here is the Wikipedia page on the raid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid

(And here is David Rovics's heartbreaking song about it, if anyone here likes a good protest song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWrnGog7Wj4)

There was an 'official' video of the raid released by the IDF, which showed the commandos being attacked as soon as they descended from their helicopters. This video was propaganda released by the Israeli government to show its people and the world that the supposedly peaceful, moderate demonstrators were “actually” vicious Islamist murderers. (That's the official line.)

At this point I should mention that there are two other posts on cluesforum about the Mavi Marmara, The first is a comment from Simon where he posted an e-mail he had received about it: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=178&p=2354779&hilit=mavi#p2354779

But that comment is buried in a thread on ‘Influences of Israel and Zionism.’ I wanted to start a new thread devoted specifically about Israeli media fakery, especially as it concerns terrorism and related events.

The second is a thread about the (missing) EXIF data on the footage: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=227&hilit=mavi

And while I’m linking to other’s work on this topic, here is a youtube video I found that contrasts the IDF video with a picture of the Mavi Marmara, but some of the claims it makes (which are also in Simon’s post) are not true (for example, you can see the flags, and the writing of the Mavi Marmara name might not be visible simply due to the FLIR technology): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4InOzs1C-9g

OK, so here is my analysis:

The crux of it is a comparison of the official IDF video of the raid and the hour of video that was “smuggled out” from the event. (Just to be clear, I don’t assume that either of these are real footage from the event, and I will return to that issue at the end.)

Here is an official video that summarizes the IDF’s version of events, according to which all 15 soldiers slide down in the first minute, and then ‘in the first few minutes’ they were attacked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z31GesVrBjc

That is not the key video in my analysis. But one thing to note about this video is that here there are two ropes coming down from the helicopter for the soldiers’ descent (the technique is called fast-roping). The official IDF video explanations say that the soldiers in the helicopter threw down a stun grenade to clear the area, then lowered down the first rope, which the activists tied to the ship. Then they lowered a second rope. But why would they just leave the helicopter tethered to the ship like that? It sounds kind of dangerous. Why didn’t they detach the rope from the helicopter? If you look on youtube for fast roping helicopter you can see examples where they can easily and within seconds detach the rope from the helicopter. Also, if the activists were able to tie the first rope to the ship – why would the commandos lower a second one? Also, the video says that there were 15 soldiers in the first helicopter and that all of them slid down within a minute and each of them attacked as soon as they landed. If you were like, say, the 11th guy and saw everyone before you getting attacked, don’t you think you might reassess your tactics at that point? I mean these guys are supposed to the IDF’s elite commandos. :ph34r: The best and the brightest. It’s absurd.

Putting those oddities aside, we turn to the real meat: the official IDF video of the raid:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI

Here we indeed see one rope tied to the ship and another rope suspended from above (note that at no time in this video do we actually see the Blackhawk). So in this video, all the troops descend on the same rope.

Time line:
11 seconds (just at the end of 11, so we can call it 12), first soldier enters the top of the frame

17 seconds, first soldier lands

21 seconds: second solider enters top of frame. (So there is a 9-10 second difference in time to first appearance until second soldier lands. Also note that the first soldier has landed and is already being beaten by the time the second soldier enters the frame.)

26 seconds: a third soldier enters the top of the frame, just after the second has landed. That’s a 5 second difference between 2nd and 3rd .

29 seconds: just after 3rd soldier lands, we can actually see a 4th soldier just before there is a jump cut to a video of another soldier coming down.

So in the course of 17 seconds (29-12), we see 4 soldiers descend from a single rope. I’ll stop the count there due to the cut, because it’s impossible to know how much time passes after that.

OK, now we move to another video supposedly filmed from the perspective of the activists. Skip to 41:25:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY

It’s hard to see due to the spotlight shining at the camera, but here is the timeline as far as I can discern.

41:27: we can see the helicopter deploying two ropes, one on either side:

It takes about 5 seconds for both ropes to deploy.

This is consistent with the information at this page (http://www.isayeret.com/content/skills/ ... ters.shtml), which describes the standard procedure for Israeli special forces is indeed to deploy two ropes, one from each side of the helicopter. Ropes are deployed more or less simultaneously.

41:34: we can see the first soldier coming down the rope on the far side of the helicopter (the side furthest from the camera, which is the right side of the helicopter from the perspective of the pilot).

41:37: we can see a 2nd soldier coming down the rope on the near side of the helicopter, followed almost immediately by a 3rd soldier down the rope on the far side and appear to descend more or less at the same time.

41:41: we see a 4th soldier coming down the near rope.

41:44: we see a 5th solider coming down the far rope.

41:48: we see the emergence of a 6th soldier, apparently from the far side

41:49, we see a 7th soldier, apparently descending on the near side. The 6th and 7th soldiers descend more or less in tandem

So in the course of 15 seconds (41:49-41:34), we’ve seen 6 soldiers descend on two ropes. Compare that to the other video, where only 4 soldiers came down one rope in the space of 17 seconds.

41:54, another soldier descends.

So we can already note two major discrepancies: 1) There are 2 ropes they’re descending down, not just 2) The second descent comes only about 3 seconds after the first, not 7-10 seconds.

These two videos are completely at odds with each other. Though note in the activist video they are armed with metal rods and firing slingshots at the helicopter.

Another anomaly: Here’s more IDF footage showing one of their soldiers being thrown from the top deck. (At 1:13)

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMjAULWn0

In the top-down view, you can see that the soldier is being thrown to the port side (left side if you are on the ship facing forward) of the ship. You can tell it’s port, because of the big tower to the left of the screen, which is aft of the landing area.

Then at 1:33 in the same video, they show footage from the side. Here, they are filming on the starboard side of the ship. You can tell it’s the starboard side, because as the camera pans to the right, you can see the smaller communications tower (or whatever it’s called), which is towards the bow of the ship relative to the landing pad. If this were being filmed from the port side of the ship, then panning to the right would show the much larger tower that is aft of the landing area.

So in one view, they are throwing the soldier over the port side of the ship, and in the other video they are throwing him over the starboard side.

Also, later in the video they show an activist throwing a firebomb. But wouldn’t a firebomb explode heat everywhere and be captured by the thermal FLIR camera? I don’t see anything after the fire bomb allegedly explodes, other than people running away.

And another thing about the same footage: notice that the soldier being attacked (at 2:33) is wearing really big, bulky white gloves. If you look on youtube for fast rope exercises, you’ll see people using these in training situations. But it doesn’t make any sense that they’d be using them in a real world situation. They’re too bulky. They would make it nearly impossible for you to handle your weapon properly. If you had to wear them, you’d need to take them off really quickly. But you don’t have to wear them. There are plenty of gloves that are not as bulky and still good for fast roping. Here is a video review of some made by Oakley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FWqAd00FtM. I’m sure the Israeli military would supply their elite commando units with something better than those big bulky white gloves for fast roping. Unless... it was a training exercise?

It is noted on the Wikipedia page on the gaza flotilla raid that the IDF trained for a month in preparation for the raid. Hm… interesting. So I surmise that the the ‘official’ IDF footage comes from the drills. In fact, it turns out that the Mavi Marmara has a sister ship, which is very similar. It was originally called the Karadeniz, later sold and renamed to Dream, whose registered owner appears to have been Loral, as in the Defense Contractor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loral_Corporation

But it might not be the Marmara sister ship, since there do seem to be some major discrepancies between the sister ship and the boat in the IDF footage, for example with the communications tower at the front. They look very different. In particular, the one in the IDF video has like a big swooshing triangle pointing to the back. But pictures of the Mavi’s sister ship do not have that (nor does the Mavi), so it might be a different ship altogether. But it is clearly not the Mavi.

So we can rule out the IDF footage. It’s fake. I don’t think it’s CGI; most likely from a drill. In fact it was likely choreographed from the beginning with the plan to substitute it with the made-up official story. Or they pulled it out from training footage after the fact to use it as excuse for why they murdered 9 activists. Interestingly, the IDF has been forced to admit that they doctored the audio that they released with the video.

But then that leaves us with the question of the other footage, the activist footage that was allegedly smuggled out. The story here is basically that the IDF confiscated everyone’s cameras and video cards, but one woman, Iara Lee, managed to smuggle out an hour’s worth of footage (technically 1:02:13). I haven’t really looked into this woman’s story, but here is one link: http://culturesofresistance.org/iara-lee

It’s not clear to me why it was only this bit of footage. My assumption is that it was on a video card that she managed to hide from the IDF. Does that make sense? That this selection and length of footage would be salvaged? I don’t know.

I think it’s important to entertain the possibility that this footage might also be fake. After all, we know how important it is for them to maintain these manufactured events as real, even as they present alternative, "conspiratorial" views on the event. I’ve looked through it, and the scenes of people injured and being helped seem real to me. At least much better production values than the shitty hoaxes and crisis actors we’ve been getting the past few years. So I’m inclined to believe it’s real. And yet, I still have my doubts.

One reason I have my doubts is that Ken O’Keefe was involved in this. He is a fraud. So if he’s involved in it, then I have to wonder if the whole thing is a fraud. (Why do I think he’s a fraud? I’ll just point you to this comment of mine on a Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/com ... ks/d4bozj0)

Also, I have my suspicions about Haneen Zoabi, and she was also on board. She is sold to us a firebrand Israeli Palestinian politician, but she comes from a prominent Palestinian family that has been collaborating with the Zionists since before statehood. Maybe she turned over a new leaf, but my suspicion is that she’s a plant. Or in other words, controlled opposition.

My guiding assumption is that the opposition is controlled; and the likelihood of this being true is directly proportional to the exposure they get and the (apparent) influence they have. So I think the whole BDS thing is likely another psy op, though I am not clear yet on what its goals are.

Another doubt comes from this other documentary, which was made by a Spanish filmmaker (Laura Arau) revisiting the events of the Marmara raid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6c0z0NJmx8

She splices footage from the raid with the people involved re-enacting what happened. Like the Lee video, it sure seems real. The emotion appears raw and unmanufactured. And yet, there is footage from the raid that doesn’t appear in the Lee footage. But if the Lee footage was the only footage that made it off the ship, then where does that additional footage come from?

I think you will also find additional footage and perhaps some other anomalies in this video (both parts 1 and 2):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7tT3FA2vUQ

Add to that the photos that we see on the web from on the boat. Did the IDF go through the pictures the activists’ took and release some of them selectively? I assume that is true for some of the pictures. Is it true for all of them?

So the IDF footage was phony. The real question is: what about the rest?
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Palestinian Girl with Knife Gunned Down by Israeli Soldiers

Postby daddie_o on July 6th, 2016, 3:26 pm

You might think the subject line of this post would be enough to identify the event, but unfortunately this has been happening way too often in Israel in the last 9 months or so. And this is not the first one caught on tape, by any means. They call it the wave of the knife attacks, or the intifada of the knives. This just happened yesterday, July 6th. My wife showed it to me, and my immediate reaction was, "it looks fake." Here's the video, followed by my impressions. I should note that this took place in the occupied territories, not far from an Army base. We can call this video "Exhibit A:"


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoNT0bRTNu8

First off, it's quite a coinky-dink that this person with a dashcam just happened to be passing by at just the right moment to capture it. And the way he sort of gently (and calmly) pulls up at just the point to get the whole scene in view. If there was audio, I wouldn't be surprised to here him shout, "Action!"

But then there's the woman with the knife. The way she's holding it up like that. It just looks so staged. I mean, I guess she could just be holding it up and kind of paralyzed in fear. It's possible. There is a whole discourse here about young Palestinians (especially women), who feel desperate and do these knife attacks as a way of both committing suicide and bringing honor to themselves (especially when it has been sullied) and their families. I'm not saying I buy that, but her pose could be viewed as consistent with that narrative. (And the again, maybe that's why the narrative was invented, to make sense out of this staged insanity).

But also, this woman just seems to come out of nowhere. She doesn't have bag, so where did she pull the knife out from? Did she just cross the street and walk towards the soldiers holding a knife behind her back the whole time? And where did the soldiers come from? They're in full combat gear, so it's not like they were waiting for a bus. It's not an unusual sight to see a soldier waiting for a bus with a weapon, since they often have to schlep their weapons home with them when they're on leave, but they're not in full gear like this. So what are they doing by that bus stop? It's not a checkpoint or anything. And didn't they see that woman coming? They didn't get suspicious as she approached them with a hand behind her back. Only when she lifted it up in the air did they realize what was up?

And then the shooting itself: doesn't seem very bloody or real to me. If you slow it down, you can see that there seems to be a gust of wind that blows the front of her scarf to the sides a bit, just before she falls down. I suppose this could have been caused by a bullet blast. But you also don't see a flash or anything when the rifle is fired, either. I assume you would see, but I'm no expert so I don't know. When she rolls over, you can see some moisture on the ground that wasn't there earlier, which is presumably supposed to be blood. I know that blood is easily faked on the spot, but this event just seemed so absurd it's hard to believe they would go out of their way to have fake blood).

And yet, despite the elements of this that look totally faked, the scarf blowing and the blood (if that's what it is), still leave me with a lingering doubt. You will tell me I'm silly and it's obviously fake. But that's where I'm at.

My wife's theory for why they would do the hoax was that in a lot of these recent cases where soldiers are killing Palestinians, the soldiers claim that the Palestinians were trying to stab them so they shot in self-defense. The Palestinians think they're lying or framing them after the fact by planting a knife on them. So this could be a way for the Israeli government to 'prove' that people really are trying to stab soldiers.

OK, you know what? I'm just going to post a bunch of other similar types of events that have been in the news the past few months so forum members can weigh in on those, too. I'm genuinely curious to see what people think about whether they're hoaxes or not. I'll label them to make them easier to refer back to.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are lots of armed people in Israel. Police, security guards, soldiers and some civilians. So if you were to hoax an event out in the open, you'd have to be very careful to control the environment lest somebody with a gun decides to take "justice" into his own hands (and that's doubly true for the territories where the maniac settlers walk around with Uzi's). Many of these events happened in crowded areas that do not appear to be well controlled (although that's not true for the event I posted above). In some of the videos, all you can see is the aftermath, but I think it's instructive so I include them.

I am not posting all these videos to make a political point of any kind. I am not trying to drum up sympathy for Israelis, to paint Palestinians as extremists, or to show that the brutality of the occupation has driven Palestinians to desperation. I am simply posting them for forum members to examine hoaxing or video trickery. Some, none or all of them might be hoaxes.

I would say these first two are the most similar to the one above:

Exhibit B:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25bg9CI2ZJ8

Exhibit C:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQC6VbECyBw

Exhibit D:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w012kiBfS_c

Exhibit E:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKWqmJNu0So

Exhibit F:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30MJyQRK7og

Exhibit G:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up19SsOPhxs

Exhibit H:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JMehtknAAo

Exhibit I:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA4vvC2Y7KU

Exhibit J:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unpfLtp7yJU

Exhibit K (here's one where a Jewish guy stabbed somebody he thought was Arab but turned out to be Jewish -- oops):


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTyK3Yqj3yg

Exhibit L (this was a shooting attack):


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOxWdvehEk8

Exhibit M:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay6G-yYqH1k

Exhibit N:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp1Va1G4Mw0

Exhibit O:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBtmNa6NpMg

Exhibit P:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQnOaQLO1Kw

Exhibit Q:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALbJUGMvL2A

Exhibit R:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi9alQXfPxo


Here was one where a Palestinian Israeli opened fire on a crowded cafe in the heart of Tel Aviv in broad daylight. They have cctv of him next door in the supermarket before the attack, and then from inside the bar:

Exhibit S:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LieC1dqkxCw

Exhibit T:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt5e1wGcP9s

Here was a recent alleged shooting in Tel Aviv:

Exhibit U:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz1NRoKBggE

Here are a few about a stabbing back in March in south Tel Aviv (Jaffa) where an American tourist was allegedly killed. This is a video of a guy running through the street. People are honking their horns and shouting 'Terrorist!' in Hebrew:

Exhibit V:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCin9Lq_YKw

Here's another one from the same event where they've shot the terrorist and he's laying on the ground as people encourage the police officer to shoot him in the head:

Exhibit W:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OIyAMofuPk

Two other videos related to that event:

Exhibit X:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbQwqwSawsI

Exhibit Y:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tkiceqEK-o

And finally, exhibit Z. This one is an example of another trend, where Palestinians (allegedly) run over people on the sidewalk, usually waiting for a bus:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guB4I8E4_cg


I did not intentionally end at Z. I just went through youtube and posted most of the videos I found that were relevant, and just got to Z by chance. I wish I could say that was all of them, but it's not. There are more. You know, these drip by day by day, but when you see them all in front of you, it's pretty upsetting. I gotta get the fuck out of here. :(
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Re: Palestinian Girl with Knife Gunned Down by Israeli Soldi

Postby nonhocapito on July 6th, 2016, 9:37 pm

daddie_o wrote:They call it the wave of the knife attacks, or the intifada of the knives. This just happened yesterday, July 6th. My wife showed it to me, and my immediate reaction was, "it looks fake." Here's the video, followed by my impressions. I should note that this took place in the occupied territories, not far from an Army base. We can call this video "Exhibit A:"


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoNT0bRTNu8


I agree that some of the videos you posted smell of fakery and certainly the first one you showed. I like the way you express doubt, I think doubt should be the approach, because obviously there is a danger of confirmation bias. However in this case all your arguments stand: she appears out of nowhere, walking with a knife held behind her back, approaching two soldiers who seemingly are waiting for the bus... The scene smells of deliberate Hitchcock a mile away. I don't really see the blood you mention... I notice instead the person in a pink shirt apparently pulling over up the road after the shooting, and running to the scene, later stopping an approaching car from which other people get out and also head to the scene. Who are these people?

Here's an idea: Perhaps the scene was filmed with the soldiers and the girl on a green screen, while the road was filmed naturally and innocuously, from a real dashcam.

In order to create the illusion of a "reaction" to events that are not really happening, the man in the pink shirt and the other car acted out an unnoticed response to the non-existent shooting.

The rest is layers and digital composition. As you see, "controlling the environment", wouldn't be a problem; it's never a problem, all it takes is organization. And when emotions run high, nobody notices the fakery.

BTW the political effectiveness of a scene like this, in my opinion, is that it enrages both parties (the Israeli for the plain aggression, the Palestinians for the inequality in weaponry and the cowardice of the soldiers), keeping everyone in check in their position. Which is the whole purpose anyway.
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Re: Palestinian Girl with Knife Gunned Down by Israeli Soldi

Postby simonshack on July 6th, 2016, 11:38 pm

daddie_o wrote: I gotta get the fuck out of here. :(


Dear Daddie O,

Does "here" - in your above sentence - stand for "Israel" or for "Cluesforum"? -_-

Now, please don't get me wrong : I'm not being facetious nor, much less, sarcastic towards you. I truly and sincerely appreciate your efforts and the time you've taken to compile ('from A to Z") the many "Absurdly-Blurry-Type-Terror-Video Clips" - aired on the media & internet connected to the seemingly endless - and quite frankly, excruciatingly boring "Israeli-Palestinian conflict". I respect your efforts even more so - knowing that you live in Israel.

I have long suspected that the main 'training ground' for those clowns relentlessly faking the news of our world has, in fact, been Israel and Palestine.

Back in 2010, I remember spending many hours / days analyzing the "Mavi Marmara Incident" imagery (finding countless, glaring inconsistencies and gross image manipulations within it). Yet, since it was such a 'sensitive issue' (which might have labeled me as an 'antisemite' or such like) - I ultimately decided to just 'drop it' or, to use your own words, "to get the fuck out of there".

As it is, when the outrageously crass / in-our-face "WE CON THE WORLD parody music video" was released, I was happy that I had made the right decision - i.e., not to dwell too much on the obviously contrived, totally stage-managed "Mavi Marmara Incident" - probably designed to make us all (normal people) argue with each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Con_the_World (PLEASE do read this Wickedpedia article!)


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg

And no, "WE CON THE WORLD" is not a Palestinian production. It is just arrogantly thrown at our faces by those Nutwork clowns - on the strength of their full & confident knowledge that most people on this world are under the spell of the phony 'news' spewed by the top brass (i.e. the media moguls) of their bulldozer-sized mass-brainwashing propaganda machine. This is the sad and sorry situation we - the normal people - are all trapped in. Hopefully, Cluesforum will help solve this problem - in the long run. All we need is to raise by a notch or two the cognitive faculties of our fellow, normal people.
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Re: Mavi Marmara and Other Israeli Video Fakery

Postby daddie_o on July 7th, 2016, 7:36 am

Does "here" - in your above sentence - stand for "Israel" or for "Cluesforum"?


I know that was a joke, but just to be clear, "here" stands for Israel. I'm relatively new to all this, so for me going over the Mavi Marmara footage with a newfound critical eye is exciting. (I pretty much ignored the details of the story when it happened.) Another event I had a good laugh about was the '72 Munich Olympics. What a crock! Just read the Wickedpedia article on it and see how many absurdities you can spot. Don't make a drinking game out of it, though, or you'll end up in the hospital with alcohol poisoning.

The Wickedpedia article you linked to quotes a CIA officer who called the We Con The World parody "pretty clever agitprop." Clever? Really? Oy. :wacko: That tells you all you need to know about the level of sophistication at the CIA. "Hey Bob, have you seen that new video Shlomo and the boys at the Mossad came up with? It's genius!"

The anti-semitism trump card has been painstakingly constructed at great expense, and it's nearly impossible to escape the vice-like grip it has on our discourse and thought.

Oh, I forgot to mention anothe data point that has left me with feeling the BDS movement is being set up for a fall, or in any case that it's being led as part of some larger psyop. Recently there was an Op-Ed published in the Washington Post, "I'm Jewish and I Want People to Boycott Israel." https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... tt-israel/

So first off, it was published in the Washington Post, the CIA's own newspaper. The woman who wrote it might be sincere, but the fact that the Washington Post published it means they're promoting it. And if they're promoting it, how legit can it be? Something stinks. Also notice in that article she mentions two companies who have joined the boycott. One of them is G4S. Remember that's the company that owns Wackenhut and Securicor. Recall Securicor's links to 9/11 and also that Omar Mateen of the Orlando Hoax was (allegedly) a G4S employee. If G4S is boycotting Israel, then you know the BDS movement has either been co-opted if not manufactured from the ground up. The question still: to what end...?
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Re: Mavi Marmara and Other Israeli Video Fakery

Postby nonhocapito on July 7th, 2016, 9:08 am

daddie_o wrote:So first off, it was published in the Washington Post, the CIA's own newspaper. The woman who wrote it might be sincere, but the fact that the Washington Post published it means they're promoting it. And if they're promoting it, how legit can it be? Something stinks. Also notice in that article she mentions two companies who have joined the boycott. One of them is G4S. Remember that's the company that owns Wackenhut and Securicor. Recall Securicor's links to 9/11 and also that Omar Mateen of the Orlando Hoax was (allegedly) a G4S employee. If G4S is boycotting Israel, then you know the BDS movement has either been co-opted if not manufactured from the ground up. The question still: to what end...?


I also have this feeling about the BDS movement. I think that the purpose as always is multifold: 1) do it and control it, before any real opposer does it and it gets out of control; 2) do it, to actually keep some "friendly" companies off the list, and only have on the list those which can handle a bit of boycotting; 3) do it, to stimulate a global reaction "in support of Israel", with people and celebrities endorsing Israeli companies to help against the BDS movement; 4) do it as a smokescreen, while further horrible taking over and expansion continues to happen in different forms. etc.
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Re: Mavi Marmara and Other Israeli Video Fakery

Postby hoi.polloi on July 7th, 2016, 2:54 pm

I haven't dived into your "knife attack" series (those stories sound truly absurd without even watching any 'support' videos), but after looking at your first post about the chopper raid my initial impression is that it's perfectly fine to assume the official IDF video is a CGI or mocap creation. A lot of the actions to me look a bit video-gamey. The long comparative video seems like it could have been acted to me, and I'm not sure what you find convincing about it except that it's a bunch of people really milling around and moving bodies and so forth? It reminds me of the kinds of fluff stuff the Naudets were creating to backstop their 9/11 "documentary" with fire fighters visibly toning down their self-consciousness. The bit with the laser at about the 39th minute was slightly comedic and unconvincing. That's just me, though, and I know people can do something like that when they want to appear 'cool' in front of the camera. Yet, the entire thing feels surreal.

I agree with nonhocapito that it's perfectly fine to start from a place of doubt and go from there. Propaganda is in full swing in the Middle East, and with anything remotely to do with Israel. So if people would argue that determining the realness or fakeness of these videos is of some primary importance in determining what's going on in Middle East affairs, they need to get serious and acknowledge on a huge mainstream level that propaganda has gotten at least as 'sophisticated' as the fake footage on 9/11, in NASA nonsense and so forth.

We've speculated at times about various skirmishes around the world and wondered: just who is dying? Just who is participating? Where does the military disinformation end? (Can we see techniques they've been using since the first 'World War' to paint a particular narrative?)

So I think anything like a war zone is going to be covered in propaganda, by propagandists. At the least, you seem to have proven that is the case once more! Thank you for looking into the messy business and dredging these up. You're onto it, and yes I have to agree — you might personally benefit from getting the fuck out of Israel! (Or, you know, stay in the heart of the beast and help wake up your neighbors. That is the strategy of some critically minded Americans about living in America.)
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Re: Mavi Marmara and Other Israeli Video Fakery

Postby daddie_o on July 7th, 2016, 9:05 pm

Nonhocapito, I skipped past your reply earlier. I like the idea of a green screen. Although the change in perspective as the car approaches the scene -- you can see everybody there, and it really looks like the car is approaching. Though I guess you could recreate that effect with a large enough studio space... definitely would make controlling the environment easier. And you're right about the guy there who stops the other person from getting any closer. He is supposed to look like a bystander, but acts like a handler. That is something we see repeatedly in these hoaxes.

BTW the political effectiveness of a scene like this, in my opinion, is that it enrages both parties (the Israeli for the plain aggression, the Palestinians for the inequality in weaponry and the cowardice of the soldiers), keeping everyone in check in their position. Which is the whole purpose anyway.


Yes, absolutely I agree 100%. Very good point.
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Re: Mavi Marmara and Other Israeli Video Fakery

Postby nonhocapito on July 8th, 2016, 8:36 pm

daddie_o wrote:Nonhocapito, I skipped past your reply earlier. I like the idea of a green screen. Although the change in perspective as the car approaches the scene -- you can see everybody there, and it really looks like the car is approaching. Though I guess you could recreate that effect with a large enough studio space...


The green screen is actually not an "idea" I'm having, but a demonstrated presence which we encountered countless times in many psyops as it is well documented on this forum. There is no doubt that this tool or anything similar is heavily used. This is literally how the 9/11 street scenes were filmed.
Furthermore, there is no need to imagine "a large studio space" to compose that scene. Once you have a sequence filmed on a green screen, you can digitally zoom it in, make it slide along a path, at the appropriate speed, etc. Hollywood movies are literally filled with this trick, which is a dime a dozen. Notice besides how nothing comes in front of the scene, not that it wouldn't be possible with a little more After Effect work. Any monkey in front of a computer screen can put this together, as a gazillion videos like these exemplifies:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-eXuLFo3Nc

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L34HsXXU00
browse through youtube with the keywords "green screen" "aftereffects" "motion" etc :)
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Re: Mavi Marmara and Other Israeli Video Fakery

Postby daddie_o on July 10th, 2016, 1:09 pm

Nonhocapito: thanks for schooling me without making feel like a noob. I have much to learn about the mechanics of video fakery.

Hoi:

my initial impression is that it's perfectly fine to assume the official IDF video is a CGI or mocap creation. A lot of the actions to me look a bit video-gamey


You might very well be right about that. The more I look at it, the more things look a little too fluid.

The long comparative video seems like it could have been acted to me, and I'm not sure what you find convincing about it except that it's a bunch of people really milling around and moving bodies and so forth? ... the entire thing feels surreal.


I would say there are two things that made it difficult to simply dismiss it as a hoax: 1. The videos of people being treated. There is one in particular of a guy (I think he's supposed to Indonesian) being treated. He looks very sweaty and pale. His physical and emotional state look authentic. Then there's the CPR bit. Maybe they've set the crisis acting bar so low in other recent events, that something that I'll fall for anything that looks even halfway realistic. 2. The international scope of all the characters involved. You can really see this if you watch the follow-up documentary. It would have been quite a feat to put all these people together from all these different countries for a fake production. Not impossible, but certainly difficult. I'm remain undecided, but leaning towards manufactured.

We've speculated at times about various skirmishes around the world and wondered: just who is dying?


Yes, well that question is of particular relevance to me. I don't assume all of these events are fake, but I am open to the possibility. I approach it as an empirical question. If all these events are fake, then I don't really need to be worried (for now) about my safety and my children's safety. But if not, then it's a different story. And it factors into the decision to stay or go. I am trying to help wake up my neighbors, but it's not easy. The brainwashing and indocrination is very thorough and runs very deep. In pre-school they are already talking about what they're going to do in the army. It's f--'ed up. Not everybody is like that, obviously. There are many people who are sickened by what is going on. But they are hard to reach beyond the "left-wing" identity that has already been carved out for them by the zookeepers...

Thank you for your thoughtful and considered response!
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