School Shootings: Columbine and Virginia Tech

Discussing the most relevant "sequels" or "reminders" of 9/11. The so-called "War On Terror" is a global scam finalized to manipulate this world's population with crass fear-mongering tactics designed to scare you shitless.
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School Shootings: Columbine and Virginia Tech

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am

Here is a thread to discuss specifically the two more artificially famous shootings of recent memory -- the media sensations 'Columbine Massacre' and 'Virginia Tech Massacre' and the various discussions therein. Since the Kent State Massacre took place some time around the period they were apparently assassinating people left and right, I think it too needs some attention for those who want to peek at it.

The reason this thread is begun is to crack open publicly, on this site, the notions that those events are completely fake or partially fake based on what we know about modern hoaxes like 9/11, 7/7 and NASA's silly Apollo projects.

Please, as usual, discuss fakery first before speculating on "evidence".

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Unread post by SimonJCP » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:58 pm

Columbine: Witnesses Saw More Than Two Gunmen (Compiled by Ralph "Starviego/Starvosan" Zaeschmar)

1) Chris Wisher, sophomore (1261) He turned and saw two guys carrying shotguns, and wearing black trench coats. A 3rd guy wearing a white T-shirt and jeans was seen throwing bombs onto the roof.

2) Jake Apodaca, sophomore (653) He was at the soccer field, heard firecrackers. He turned and saw two guys carrying shotguns, wearing black trench coats and black T-shirts. A 3rd guy wearing a white T-shirt and jeans was seen throwing bombs onto the roof.

3) Jonathan Cole, freshman (749) He noticed two tall guys in black trench coats. He then saw a third male, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans. This person looked over to the other two suspect, and yelled "GO!! GO!!".

4) William Arapkiles, freshman (660) He states that he was at the soccer field, and heard firecrackers. He turned and saw 3 people near the West entrance. Two were wearing black trench coats, and carrying guns. The third was wearing a white T-shirt, and no visible gun. The person in the white T-shirt was pacing back and forth about 5' away from the two gunmen.

5) Channel 7 News at 12pm(noon) on 4-20 (EP 21-244) "Reporter said that numerous witnesses he spoke to who were not named said they saw 3 gunmen."

6) Lindsay Elmore, junior (332)"I believe there were 3 gunmen." (340) "...there was so much movement that Elmore thought there was more than two people."

7) ACSO Nelson (8810) "... a list of 3 names that the 12 witnesses ID'd from a yearbook were turned over to ACSO investigators to forward."

8) Jason Baer, sophomore (1759) Hid in greenroom off science hall "I heard more than two people yelling to each other saying 'over here' and stuff."

9) Anthony Sammauro, freshman (5071) "Tony stated that two suspects came in the front door and one came in the side door."

10) Erik Sunde, freshman (4576) Saw two gunmen downstairs near cafeteria, runs upstairs and sees another person in trenchcoat in front of library doors.

11) Jon Curtis, staff (2286) Describes 3 attackers.

12) Richard Olejniczak, father of students Alicia and Sarah (5070) "Richard then asked this Investigator what information had been obtained reference any other participants. Richard stated that while he was at Lea Wood Elementary School, waiting for information about his two daughters, he talked with two girls who came from the school. The girls said they had seen two guys in the cafeteria, wearing all black. There were also two guys who entered the main door from the parking lot. One was in black, the other in white. The girls said they all had guns.

13) Adam Campbell, senior (732) Walked out of school at 11:20am(immediately before shooting) on 4-20 and saw Harris in the parking lot with 2 or 3 other guys, wearing a white T-shirt and a backward baseball cap.

14) Matt Katzenmeier, sophomore (5745) Saw 4 subjects carrying bags in, according to Darlene Mesch.

15) Alicia Maes, sophomore (22755) Saw 4 people with trenchcoats and guns, according to Rachel Nelson.

16) Natalie Baker, freshman (2583) Told her mother there were 2 other shooters besides Harris and Klebold.

17) Jennifer Tindall, sophomore (1226) Sees 2 suspects, neither of which is Harris and Klebold.

18) Ryan Ezzie, sophomore (2967) Saw 4 people outside with hats on backwards. On 20612, he says he "...saw at least 4 parties dressed in black standing calmly when others were running."(by the school library)

19) Jordan Grimm, freshman (22432) According to Jordan's aunt, he saw Harris and Klebold and 2 others together ouside school just before the incident began.

20) John Spahlinger (1176) Clement Park maintenance worker, "a majority of the students Spahlinger helped informed him there had been a trench coat mafia gang shooting over at the high school and that there were 4 shooters involved."

21) Thornton/NorthglennPD SWAT Team (EP 9-34) At 11:35pm on 4-20(12 hours later) the team enters CHS for another search. "We were advised that 2 suspects(shooters) might still be in the school."

22) Littleton PO Mike Eyman (8670) Advised that "there were possibly 4 suspects in the school."

23) Nathan Dykeman, senior (trenchcoat mafia associate) "...anyway yes there were 2 more people in the school with handguns but they decided to bail.... eric and dylan went threw with it and the other 2 did not...

24) (8894) "Daphne Baca had listed 4 names of possible suspects. Those names included Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Chris Morris, and Robert Perry."

25) Trista Fogerty, freshman (23144) "Trista said she believes, as do most other students, that there were more than 4 people involved in shooting."

26) J. Adams (7422) Construction worker near CHS; he refers to a black BMW and a small tan car drive down his cul-de-sac, followed five minutes later by the sound of bombs. A co-worker says the BMW was filled with 4 teenagers, the tan car which followed it had 2 people in it. (7430)

27) Gary Talocco, teacher (8876) He says that the school roof repairman saw 3 people exit vehicle with Harris and Klebold. Tan vehicle followed them into the lot.

28) Dick Strange (1194) "It was at approximately 11:45am that Strange first observed 4 to 5 individuals, all dressed in black trench coats, standing alongside Columbine High School in the vicinity of the gymnasium."

29) Patrick Vassar, freshman (4691) Sees 4-5 individuals at 11:15am dressed in black walk away from the school, all wearing trench coats, except one, who was wearing cami pants.

30) Seth Biggi, junior (2475) Was told by Courtney Shakowski she saw 4 to 5 tenchoat mafia members enter cafeteria with a big, black duffel bag.

31) Devon Adams, sophomore (10614) Names 3 (Redacted) names as being directly involved in the Columbine shooting--they are not Harris and Klebold.

32) Boulder PD SWAT Timeline (8245) 2130 hours: "2 suspects believed dead inside, 1 arrest, 1-2 other supects/associates."

33) Julie Thomas, passerby eyewitness (ACSO 808) That on 042099 at about 0755 hours, Julie turned onto Polk St. from Pierce St. and saw a small brownish/golden truck parked on the south side of Polk St. 5 male teens around it. At least three of them are wearing black trench coats.

34) Pat McDuffee, trenchcoat mafia associate (10786) A member of the trenchcoat mafia names 5 people in the attack group. Says another 5 helped plan the attack and helped provide guns and bombs.

35) Melissa Chavez (9023) Met Harris and Klebold and 4 other boys at the mall. They showed her a map of where they would bomb the school.

36) Tim Kastle, senior (3416) Tells police of 5 suspects.

37) Pam Wood (8902) Got call at work in Pennys at South West Plaza from students trapped in school. One saw 6 trenchcoats and that all were shooting handguns.

38) Amy Terry, sophomore (2207) Was told by friend Elisha Encinias that she was in the commons when trench coaters with masks on came in shooting. Running upstairs, she sees 4 people in trenchcoats coming in through the glass doors at the west end of the main hallway.

39) Bryan Frye, sophomore (806) While crawling past the admin office(where he had just heard gunshots), he saw 5 or 6 persons all dressed in black.

40) LFD Capt. Mike Gorman (EP 1-335) "Capt. Gorman told me the only information was that there were 5 to 6 shooters from the Trench Coat Mafia."

41) JCSO Kevin Walker (EP 1-223) "Dep. Walker related the communications center advised there were approximately 6 gunmen, dressed in black."

42) JCSO Vincent DiManna (EP 1-363) At 11:35am, JeffCo. Lt. Manwaring "advised him there were as many as 7 gunmen inside the cafeteria and commons area."

43), 4-19-2001 "They(the cops) believed that they really had 6 to 8 armed individuals inside there."

44) Adam Campbell, senior (732) Says fellow student Jessica Cave says she saw 10 shooters at the school(Jessica herself was not interviewed).

What did the ear witnesses hear? Numerous students heard gunshots/explosions in different parts of the school simultaneously. Which of course probably meant more than two shooters, as Harris and Klebold were officially together almost the entire time. To wit:

45) Sara Houy, sophomore (380) Heard bombs in cafeteria below, while shooters were inside library, exploding bombs.

46) Josh Lapp, sophomore (480) Heard gunfire in other parts of the school while attack on library is going on.

47) Brandi Wiseman, sophomore (4751) Caught in one of the rooms off the kitchen, hears gunshots, bombs and screaming coming from cafeteria and library.

48) Holly Pinkham, sophomore (1620) Says friend Don Goin had his shoe shot off while in middle hall, while gunshots were going off in cafeteria.

49) Matt Katzenmeier, sophomore (3424) Heard shots and explosions inside the school at the same time there are 2 suspects outside.

50) Alex Babiniec, freshman (1954) "He thought the explosions were coming from the level he was on and from downstairs at the same time."

51) Drew Lagerborg, junior (1999) Ran west down south hallway, there was a gunman at end of that hallway. Ran to north hallway, he heard a shooter down that hallway as well.

52) Josh Brinkley, sophomore (2528) Heard shots downstairs, then different shots upstairs(from two guns).

53) Jay Gallantine, staff (3086) Sees gunman by library then runs downstairs where he hears more gunshots "all this time hearing shots all around me and above me."

54) Lindsay Wyant, sophomore (4799) Heard shots in cafeteria and library at same time.

55) Evan Todd, sophomore (8826) Heard bombs in other parts of the building while Harris and Klebold were in library.

56 and 57) Diwata Perez and Jessica Holliday, seniors (9923) Heard gunshots elsewhere while shooters were in library.

Among the best evidence are witnesses who actually identified other participants by name.

58) Crystal Archuleta, junior (EP1-197) "...she did see one person throw a pipe bomb. .....She told me at the time she thought it was Robert Perry."

59) Seth Dubois, freshman (EP21-125) "...Seth told Katherine(Carlston) that Robert Perry was seen shooting a girl in the back while leaving the library."

60) Wade Allen Frank, senior (EP1-91) "Mr. Frank told me that he thought origonally one of the individuals(shooting) was someone by the name of Robert..." "He stated that the person was tall, approximately 6'3" and kind of ackward(sic) and gangly."

61) Bryan Frye, sophomore (EP25-69) "He stated that the person he had previously believed this shooter to be was Robert Perry. .....In a previous interview, after receiving his yearbook, he had told his father that he believed the shooter to be Robert Perry. He also stated that the gunman had bad acne."

62) Courtney Haulman, freshman (EP25-91) "There was three guys. The guy I remember most was the main guy. He's over 6' tall and has long curly dark-colored hair. He was wearing a trench coat. His name is Robert Perry."

63) Lacey Hohn, freshman (EP1-186) "...can you identify or descibe who was shooting? ....Ms. Hohn said that she does not believe it was Harris or Klebold. Ms. Hohn believes it was an individual named Robert."

64) Bijen Monty, junior (EP1-110) "I asked her if she saw the source of the shooting. She told me she saw who she thought, at the time, was Robert Perry with a gun hanging around his neck. She said she never actually saw him shoot the weapon. "She asked me if I had any information in regards to Robert Perry. I informed her I did not."

65) Tessa Nelson, freshman (EP1-113) "I asked her if she saw the source of the shots. She said she saw a male, who she thought was Robert Perry, wearing boots, dark jeans with dark hair, walking down the stairs outside the cafeteria. She said the male suspect pulled a gun and started shooting."

66) Katelyn Sue Place, freshman (EP21-285) Kate said, "It was (Redacted). I'm almost positive of it. I remember looking him dead in the eye. He was in my debate class..... . ...Dylan kind of looked like Robert, but Dylan doesn't have the long face. Robert's teeth are messed up and he was smiling and I saw his teeth then. Kate said that she has since seen pictures of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, and she said, "It's not one of them."(Referring to the person she saw shooting out on the outside commons.) "She remembers him shooting Ann Marie(Hochalter). .... Robert was just randomly shooting. ...Robert was still shooting. ....Kate said that Robert shot Ann Marie before he smiled at Kate. ....She looked and saw Jason(Autenrieth) trying to help Ann Marie, dragging her away from Robert, to the side."

67) Lacey Smith, junior (4470) "On the diagram she depicts (Redacted) as walking in through the doors, past where she was sitting, and going in about as far as they north end of the school store. It was at that time she heard the windows breaking and then realized she was hearing shots. "....she did not have any trouble indentifying PERRY when he walked past her. I asked SMITH how sure she was that the person she saw and spoke with was (Redacted). I asked, "90 percent sure? 50 percent sure?" Her response was "100 percent sure." I then showed SMITH a photo lineup which included a picture of Dylan KLEBOLD, and asked her if the person who walked past her was in the lineup. She stated he was NOT in the lineup. .....As (Redacted) passed her and was near the commons area of the cafeteria, she then explained that (Redacted) pulled a weapon out from under his trench coat and started firing into the cafeteria.

68) Brenton Hooker, junior (16397) "....he turned around and observed an individual he thought was ROBERT PERRY(ex-student of Columbine High School) standing outside the door just to the north of the main entrance shooting a pistol in his direction...." ....HOOKER described the individual he thought was PERRY as 6'8" - 6'11" in height, very skinny, tight black pants, black trench coat..."

69) Tiffany Lien, freshman (968) "Lien stated she believed gunman number one was (Redacted).... ...Lien stated that she was approximately twenty to twenty-five feet away from gunman number one and looked at him face to face for approximately 25 seconds, frozen in her tracks." Tall male had long black trench coat, black jeans, dark brown hair. His hair was kind of long and had curls. He was skinny and his shoulders kind of hunched over. ...She also stated that the gunman had bad acne.

70) Kristen Long, senior (20245) "Long said suspect definitely had dark hair and a large nose, thought it might be (Redacted)."

71) Rusty Shyler, junior (5464) "The individual was very tall. ...Shyler saw his face partially and thought based upon his dress and size that it may have been (Redacted). He was a hundred percent sure it was (Redacted). He described (Redacted) as being 6'6" to 6'7" tall and having lots of zits."

72) Chris Thierren, sophomore (1207) Saw a tall shooter with acne, large nose, shoulder-length hair. "He stated that the picture he saw was of (Redacted) and he was 'pretty sure' he was the shooter he saw that morning at CHS."

73) Erin Walton, sophomore (4139) "Erin Walton said she knew one of the shooters, and that he not one of (the) two Eric and Dylan. ...he was a senior named (Redacted). and he was very tall, had bad acne scars on his cheeks.... "

74) Chris Wisher, sophomore (9832) "....he recognized one of the shooters--the other shooter was the kid wearing black that was arrested and placed in cuffs and put inside a black police car. He said that he is 100% positive that he was the male that shot at him." "Thought he recognized Chris Morris as being one of the shooters.... ...on the west side of the cafeteria."(EP6-265)

75) Ashley Egelund, freshman (22671) "Ashley was in north corridor when she observed (Redacted) and Eric Harris coming around the corner from the library.... She said Chris Morris was armed with a handgun while Harris was armed with a shotgun.(5248 ) ....both started shooting at Ashley.... Ashley did not know (Redacted) at first but she saw his picture in the yearbook and is positive it was (Redacted).

76) Leiha Murphy, sophomore (3828) In the cafeteria, notices commotion outside north-west door. "I saw a guy I recognized as (Redacted). He was running... (Joe)Stair had his blond hair down. It's past his shoulders. He's about 6', tall, skinny, he was wearing a long black trench coat.... I saw nothing in his hands. He was observed a short distance from whatever was going on at the door. My thought was that (Redacted) was involved if there was a fight." Stair named in the cafeteria map(3830). Leiha also immediately picked him out of a photo lineup. "I ask Leiha if she was certain that this individual was (Redacted). Leiha said "Oh yeah, I'm certain.... I saw his face full on. I remember seeing his face completely....(she said he stood in place for about 15 seconds)....I remember him graduating last year." She remembers him wearing 'makeup on his face and hand' and that because of that, he stood out from other students." " (3836) Also, at least four ear- witnesses heard the suspects refer to one of their number as "Joe."(Encinas, 2943, Herivel, 1927, McKenna, 3525, and Salazar, EP21-224)

77) Cara Sander, sophomore (EP25-203) Describes gunman as pudgy, overweight, very full face, thick bushy eyebrows. IDs him as (Redacted), who is heavy-set with a round face, short dark hair and dark eyebrows. A copy of the CHS yearbook page with Brian Sargent's photo is included in her interview. [John Ungerland(1701) says Brian Sargent has a round chubby face and is a big guy with bushy eyebrows. He saw him that morning at school; Sargent was wearing a short sleeve white button-up shirt-a polo type.]

78) Jason Brehm, sophomore (719) One of the shooters had a very round face, shorter than 5'11". Not Harris or Klebold.

79) Mindy Pollock, freshman (10009) Sees one gunman outside west entrance, holding a gun on the fence. ...Dressed in a "white dress-type shirt", short brown hair, with a "little bit of a gut". "POLLOCK stated she recognized the lower, #1 gunman as (Redacted)."(1095)

80) David Eagle, sophomore (1878) "The guy with the gun had black hair looked like it was spiked shaved on the sides.(sic) It was also blond on top. 5'9", about 18 years old. "He has since seen pictures of Harris and Klebold on television. ...David said that the person he saw did not look like the people he's seen on television."

81) John Vandemark, sophomore (2216) In the science hall, sees older shooter with dark hair, spiky with blond tips.

82) Erin Walton, sophomore (2243) In th science hall, sees suspect with short blond hair-"like he was going bald"-older, in his 30s.

83) Jen Smull, sophomore (2182) In science hall, sees Klebold and an older suspect, 25-30, blond with short, spiky, buzz-cut hair.

84) Nathan Anema, freshman (2359) "....Anema identified (Redacted) as possibly being the person he saw throw a pipe bomb during the shooting at Columbine High School on 4-20-99. ...Anema stated that he initially thought the person that he saw throwing the pipe bomb was (Redacted)."

85) Katy Beer, freshman (6636) ".... when the incident began at Columbine High School, she initially tried to get out of the school by going toward the main doors on the east side of the school by the administrative offices, however, she said she saw a third shooter next to these offices and that this third shooter shot out windows at that location. ...Katy Beer told him this third shooter may have been (Redacted)."

86) Leanne Clark, freshman (1422) "...Clark told her that she saw who did the shooting in the cafeteria, and that Clark identified (Redacted) as a gunman."

87) Frank DeAngelis, School Principle(8018) "I also assisted the principle of Columbine, who was having hard time giving the pictures of possible suspects to the command post and was present when he looked at and identified one of the suspects he was named.(sic) The male suspect was in the custody of, I believe, Jefferson Co. Sheriff's investigators."

88) Amy Evans, senior (22205) "....Amy Evans said there was a third shooter and it was (Redacted)."

89) Mark Hengel, junior (5901) "Hengel identified Klebold and (Redacted) from the photograph in the attached 1A envelope.... Also attached is a 1A envelope is a diagram of Columbine High School indicating the diection of Hengel and the two individuals dressed in black." Apparently the interviewing officer didn't like what he was hearing, and so the interviewer ends up telling the eyewitness what he saw: "I then advised Mark Hengel that the skinny person he saw standing and shooting was Dylan Klebold and the person he saw standing over the duffel bag was Eric Harris."

90) AnneMarie Hochalter, junior, gunshot victim outside the cafeteria (18218) "Advised that Harris/Klebold did not shoot her. .... Has ID on shooters."

91) Leigh Kamens, senior (1422) While in the 'green room' off of the science hall, she identified (Redacted) as one of the gunmen.

92) Alicia Maes, sophomore (3614) "Alicia stated that when she first observed the male in the black trench coat, she thought it was a person known to her as (Redacted)."

93) Mark Opfer, freshman (1064) "At the time, Opfer believed the taller person in the black tenchcoat who with(sic) the shooter was (Redacted)....." "CHS student Mark Opfer was interviewed on 4-27-99... In that interview Opfer stated that he believed (Redacted, wearing a trench coat) was standing next to a gunman and was involved in the shooting."(25625)

94) Josh Ortwein, senior (1939) "...Josh Ortwein witnessed the shooting and he was telling everyone he saw (Redacted) shooting a gun."

95) Jessica Rusch, sophomore (2143) "...she identified one of the gunmen at the Columbine High School as being an individual known as (Redacted)."

96) Valeen Schnurr, senior, gunshot victim in library (18969) "Per Valeen's mother, Shari Schnurr, Valeen possibly identified her shooter as (Redacted)."

97) Jennifer Tindall, sophomore (1226) "....insisted that neither suspect she saw was Eric Harris or Dylan Klebold. ...Tindall picked out (Redacted) photograph as possibly being the male in the black trench coat."

98) Adam Thompson, junior (21039) "....he had seen a gunman shooting inside the school. Does not think it is the same as gunmen in the media."

99) Terry Lawson, junior (10020) ID other than Harris and Klebold.

100) Monica Schuster junior (19470) "Schuster saw gunman but did not believe it was Harris and Klebold."

101) Kacey Ruegsegger, junior, gunshot victim in library (128) "Ruegsegger did not recognize the pictures of Harris and Klebold she has seen in the media as the gunmen in the library."


The White T-Shirt Suspect

The White T-shirt Bomber

There were a couple of publicized interviews of students on 4/20/99, in which students claimed to have seen three suspects. The official report, which came out several months later, claimed that these people were confused. The report claims that they saw Eric Harris both before and after he took of his trench coat, and thus thought that he was two different suspects.

Now, the southwest side of Columbine is where the shooting began, and it is a jumble of corners, angles and hills. People near the West entrance would not be able to see around to the stairs. People by or down the stairs would not be able to see the West entrance. So, only the witnesses further away would have the best perspective on the unfolding events.

What do these witnesses say?


Chris Wisher (page 1261 in the 11,000 pages of released files)
Chris states that he was behind the cafeteria about 100 yards away, and heard what he thought were fireworks. He turned and saw two kids wearing trench coats, and one kid wearing a white T-shirt who was throwing bombs onto the school. One of the trench-coated kids shot a shotgun at him, and then other kid in a trench coat had an automatic rifle. A little later, he and his friends also saw a person with a gun hiding in the bushes in Weaver Park.

Jake Apodaca (page 653)
He states that he saw 3 suspects, simultaneously. He was at the soccer field, heard firecrackers. He turned and saw two guys carrying shotguns, wearing black trench coats, black berets, black pants, black army boots, and black T-shirts. He had seen them at school before, but could not find them in the yearbook. A 3rd guy wearing a white T-shirt, jeans, light brown hair, that he had not seen him at school before, was seen throwing bombs onto the roof. It is not stated if the 3rd suspect had a gun or not. Jake also states that he saw a gunman with a shotgun hiding in the bushes in Weaver Park.

Jonathan Cole (page 749)
He states that he had met up with Jake Apodaca and Chris Wisher outside the main West entrance. There, he noticed two tall guys in black trench coats, no hats, one had on a ski mask, and one had "puffy" hair. One had a white T-shirt under his coat, the other had a black or dark T-shirt. These 2 walked over to top of the hill and looked down toward the cafeteria. He then saw a third male, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans, exit the school through the same door. This person looked over to the other two suspect, and yelled "GO!! GO!!". The two suspects pulled out guns and began shooting. Jonathan began running, looked back and saw the person in the white T-shirt throwing some bombs onto the roof, which exploded. Several days later, when students were allowed back into the school to claim their belongings, he saw the white-t-shirted bomb-thrower at the school. This person is described as being 5'10", wearing black glasses, and having collar length blondish brown hair. Jonathan was shown a photo lineup, but could not identify him as one of those suspects. Jonathan was about 73' to 75' away from the gunmen, but could not identify them.

William Arapkiles (page 660)
On 5/5/99, Billy states that he was at the soccer field, and heard firecrackers. He turned and saw 3 people near the West entrance. Two were wearing black trench coats, and carrying guns. The third was wearing a white T-shirt, and no visible gun. The person in the white T-shirt was pacing back and forth about 5' away from the two gunmen. He saw the gunmen shoot toward the ground and into the air. He saw them shoot one person near the top of the stair, and another at the bottom of the hill, then a third victim that was trying to run away across the parking lot. The shooter then shot at the witnesses on the soccer field. Billy observed actions of one shooter, which seemed to him to be a jammed gun.

Don Arnold (page 666)
Don states that he was on the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned toward the school. He saw a "short, pudgy" male in a white T-shirt that was throwing bombs onto the roof. He did not see this person having a gun. Don saw another male standing at the top of the hill, shooting toward the parking lot. Don had gone shooting with his father before, and knew the sounds of gunshots. He heard two different gunshot sounds -- one was a shotgun, and the other was not. This shooter then turned and shot 5 or 6 time toward the soccer field using a shotgun. He saw that this shotgun was a pump shotgun.

Pat Neville (page 1043)
On 5/6/99, gave an account much like Don Arnold's. He was by the soccer field, heard firecrackers, turned and saw two suspects. One in a black trench coat, tall, all in black, shooting people with a long gun. The other had a white T-shirt, blue jeans, no visible gun, and was throwing bombs onto the roof.

Arthur Curtis (page 765)
Arthur was also on the soccer field. He only saw 2 shooters. One was tall, with long hair, and wore a black trench, the other wore a white T-shirt. He saw the one in the black trench coat carrying a sawed-off shotgun. Arthur states that he could identify the one in the trench coat if given a picture. He saw them shoot at groups of people and at the soccer field witnesses. He reported that the one in the white T-shirt descended the stairs, fired a few shots, and went back up the stairs.

Mike Kenny (page 938)
Mike was also on the soccer field when here heard a noise like firecrackers. He looked and saw two people about 100 yards away. One was in a black trench coat and black pants and was holding a TEC-9, the other was about 10 feet behind him and was wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans. They appeared to be together. The one in the trench coat was shooting, but Mike couldn't tell if the one in the white T-shirt was shooting or not. The trench coat shooter shot at the players on the soccer field, who ducked and ran. Mike looked back, and saw explosions on the roof. He did not see anyone throw a bomb up there, but either of the two suspects he did see could have thrown a bomb to that location.

Jason Brehm (page 718)
On 5/5/99, Jason give the following information: Jason walked out the West main doors, and saw a figure in a black trench coat, leaning against a post outside the library North door. This person was a little shorter than 5'11", with a round face, and was not Eric or Harris. This person had a black hat turned backward, black boots, and one pants leg tucked into a boot. This person also has a large, full, black nylon bag with straps at his feet. Jason walked to the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned around. He turned, and saw the guy in the trench coat still there, with smoke rising beside him. He said this lone gunman walked down and back up the stair, shooting, then threw some bombs onto the roof, then ran back down the stairs and shot a different, louder gun, which Jason thinks was a shotgun. He thinks that was when Lance Kirkland was shot in the face. As Jason was running away, he saw a figure in a white T-shirt walking calmly from the parking lot towards the shooter.

J-u-s-t-i-n Woods (page 1268)
J-u-s-t-i-n was on the soccer field, and states that he was about 50 feet away, and saw two guys come out of the West entrance of the school. He identifies one shooter as Dylan, describes him as wearing a trench coat, a black hat, and no mask, carrying a handgun with a banana clip. He says that the other suspect wore a white shirt, black pants, boots, not hat, no mask, and more clean-cut that the other. This suspect had a shotgun, leaned against the fence and shot at people. Klebold was shooting at @#% and the other people on the soccer field as they ran away. He heard explosions, and saw smoke on the roof of the school.

Bryan Stepp (page 1179)
On 4/30/99, Bryan stated that he was playing soccer, and saw two guys near the West main entrance. One was wearing all black, black cargo pants, black trench coat, and a hat. The other suspect was wearing a black trench coat and a white shirt, and a hat. He saw the first suspect bend down and light fireworks or pipe bombs. When he stood up, Bryan could see he held a gun with a banana clip. He said that someone walked out of the West entrance door, and this suspect shot at this person, who then fell down. Bryan said that this suspect shot at students down the hill from him, and they all ran away except one, then the shooter shot at the student in the soccer field, who fled. When Bryan looked again, he heard explosions and saw smoke above the roof of the school. He also saw the banana-clip shooter shoot out the windows in the double doors of the West main entrance, then both shooters walked down the stairs toward the cafeteria, where they shot out a window.

Evan Vitale (page 1243)
On 4/20/99, Evan stated that he was in the Sr. parking lot, in a car that was about to leave school. He heard a "pop pop pop" and looked, and saw a kid on the top of the hill, shooting a rifle, about 30 shots. This gunman was wearing a white T-shirt, a trench coat, black pants, had dark hair and dark skin. He saw another individual in a dark trench coat, a black ball cap worn backwards, and long, blond hair, who was running up and down the stairs outside the West side of the cafeteria. As the car began pulling out, Evan noticed a third suspect. This person was stand by the wall next to the West side of the cafeteria. This suspect was holding a pump shotgun, and wore a white shirt and black pants. He was very sure this was not Dylan. Evan did not believe it possible for this suspect to be the same as the shooter on the hill, as it seemed that this would have required this person to move too far too fast.

Trent Karnes (page 911)
Trent was the driver of the car Evan Vitale was riding in. He was in the parking lot when he heard what he thought was someone roofing. It was 6 or 7 rapid gunshots. He turned and saw a person at the top of the outside stairs, holding a rifle, leaning on a fence, shooting down the hill at people. He was wearing a white dress shirt, black dress pants, and a thin black vest. Trent saw another person, about 6'2" or 6'3" tall, in a black trench coat, black pants, medium brown shoulder length hair, a black leather hat, and sunglasses. He saw this person running up and down the stairs, apparently looking at the victims between groups of shots by the first person. Trent estimated the distance at between 100 and 200 yards. He also mentions that there was a kid wearing a white T-shirt and faded blue jean shorts, standing, watching and smiling. He thinks this kid was not part of it, only that he thought it was a joke, as apparently did the other people he saw smiling as they ran.

Mindy Pollock (page 1093)
On 4/26/99, she gave this information to the FBI: She was about to get into Trent's car with Evan, where she heard firecrackers. She looked, and saw a man running up and down the stairs, and another standing at the top of the stairs shooting people. She thought is a skit. She described the running man as wearing black pants, black shirt, a black hat backwards, a black trench coat, and carrying a silver handgun, which she did not see him shoot. She described the shooter as wearing black pants, a white shirt, black suspenders, a red hat backwards, and a huge black gun.


Summary table deleted here. I'll edit in a reformatted version later.

We know Harris was wearing a white T-shirt, but did the investigators come to the correct conclusion that every sighting of a suspect in a white T-shirt was Harris? Of the 15 sightings listed above, only 7 are consistent with Harris. Even with these 7, 3 are clearly inconsistent with the official timeline. (See detailed analysis of the witnesses' accounts below.) Put another way: of the 14 people that witnessed these events, only 4 gave statements consistent with the description and activities of Eric Harris, as seen in the Sheriff's Report.

Most telling however, is that no less than 4 witnesses saw 3 suspects AT THE SAME TIME. These 4 witnesses were Chris Wisher, Jake Apodaca, Jonathan Cole, and William Arapkiles. This is very, very strong corroboration - corroboration that was either overlooked or ignored. Two others had strong evidence of a third suspect. These two were Don Arnold and Evan Vitale.

It is certainly reasonable to assume that not every witness will see every suspect. So, for the sake of argument, lets suppose that there was a third, T-shirt wearing bomb thrower, and see how well the witnesses' statements support this. Please note we will not be counting the failure to notice a suspect as an anomaly. This could easily be accounted for by a bad angle, or by the witness focusing on the more immediate threat rather than surveying the scene carefully.

Since we know that Harris wore a white shirt as well, how can we tell the two apart? Well, Harris wore black pants, had a gun, and spent all of his time outside the school at the top of the hill, shooting people (according to the official report). The possible 3rd suspect, as reported by the 4 witnesses who saw 3 suspects at once, wore blue jeans, had no gun, and threw bombs onto the roof.

Do any of the other witnesses report a shooter that more closely matches our hypothetical bomber? Lets examine each:

Don Arnold: The description of the trench-coated shooter with a pump shotgun, shooting from the top of the hill, much more closely fits Harris that Klebold. Since the suspect in the white T-shirt does not match Klebold at all, he must be a 3rd suspect. Don hears two distinct weapons, but the suspect in the white T-shirt did not have a gun, which also strongly indicates a 3rd suspect.

Pat Neville: The description of the trench-coated shooter much more closely fits Harris that Klebold. Which means the suspect in the white T-shirt must be a 3rd suspect.

Arthur Curtis: The description of this suspect in a white T-shirt fits Harris very well.

Mike Kenny: This report has little information, but Mike did notice the explosion, and since the suspect in the white T-shirt was wearing blue jeans and had no visible gun, it does give more support to the white T bomber theory.

Jason Brehm: This muddled account is mostly likely a combination of Harris and Klebold.

J-u-s-t-i-n Woods: A sighting of Harris without a gun seems most likely. Who threw the bombs is unclear.

Bryan Stepp: Given the sparse details, it is most likely Harris

Evan Vitale: The 3rd suspect could possibly have been Harris. Even if it was not, this suspect is not the white T-shirt bomber as described above.

Trent Karnes: The shooting suspect in a white T-shirt is consistent with Harris. The other person mentioned seems most likely to be uninvolved

Mindy Pollock: This suspect also is consistent with Harris.

So, let's try these groupings:

Arthur Curtis, Jason Brehm, J-u-s-t-i-n Woods, Bryan Stepp, Trent Karnes, Mindy Pollock, and Evan Vitale do not report seeing this white T-shirt bomber. The person in a white T-shirt that they do see conforms well to Harris's description. If we assume that the official timeline is erroneous in not having Harris go down the stairs, then they are very consistent.

Don Arnold, Pat Neville, and Mike Kenny saw a suspect that very strongly supports the account of the bomber seen by Chris Wisher, Jake Apodaca, Jonathan Cole, and William Arapkiles.


There was a third accomplice, the White T-shirt Bomber.

Switching to this theory instead of a two-shooter theory, the number of anomalous testimonies falls from 11 to 4. (Evan, Jason, Trent and Mindy all reported a shooter that may not have been Eric or Dylan).

Of the 14 witnesses, four witnesses saw him simultaneously with Eric and Dylan, and 3 other witnesses saw him with one of the two shooters.

Put in percents:
No white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 73%
With white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 28%

If we factor out the anomalies that do not directly relate to the white T-shirt bomber, we have:
No white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 50%
With white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 0% None. Zip.

Seven corroborating witnesses, four of whom saw 3 suspects simultaneously. Furthermore, none of the seven reports about the white T-shirt bomber contradict each other. And the theory much more closely aligns with the actual witnesses' reports than does the official report.

Could it be any plainer than that?

There was a third accomplice, the White T-shirt Bomber. ... 5801#15801


Chris Morris -- Close friend of Harris/Klebold, Leader of the Trenchcoat Mafia, Known for knife-pulling and talking about constructing explosives, Reported to be one of the shooters by witnesses and tipsters, Son of a policewoman, Arrested at the scene

Robert Perry -- Columbine dropout, Spent a lot of time on campus after he left, Trenchcoat Mafia member, Identified by many witnesses as a shooter, His mother died from undisclosed/unknown causes years later

Joseph Stair -- Columbine graduate, Son of a US Air Force veteran, Founder of the Trenchcoat Mafia, Talked about blowing up the school, Said he had a "hit list", Reported to be on campus that morning by one witness (In contradiction of his alibi), Earwitnesses heard the assailants addressing someone named "Joe" in a comradely manner during the shooting, Died in a suspicious suicide in September 2007 (Days before the Columbine "Memorial" event was to be held)

Matt Akard, Jim Branetti, & Matthew Christianson -- Known as "the Splatterpunks", arrested wearing combat-fatigues in Clement Park (Near Columbine), Said they heard about the shooting on the radio and came to see it before the first radio report, Knew the names of the gunmen (Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold) before they were released, One was reported to be an ex-Columbine student who was expelled

Brian Sargent -- Named as being involved, Matched the description of the "round-faced" shooter who was described as being "neither Harris nor Klebold"

Nate Marshall -- West Metro Firefighter, Taught Fire-Safety classes at Columbine, Named by Columbine mother Donna Taylor as having been Harris/Klebold's trainer, Witnesses saw someone wearing a police/firefighter-style shirt at the school, Witnesses (such as Mindy Pollock) saw a shooter matching Marshall's description

Adult In The Science Hall -- Several students saw a grown man in his 30s firing a shotgun in the science hall, One female student described him as having a "chiseled face"

A number of other assailants were seen. A short shooter wearing a jacket was seen running through the cafeteria. A shooter with dark brown hair and bushy eyebrows was seen firing a gun outside. A German-speaking suspect was reported. Witnesses saw a gunman on the roof. Two witnesses saw an assailant with a shotgun in Weaver Park (Near Columbine).

Other students reported men in black jumpsuits/masks and at least three witnesses state that the ATF was shooting students. One man named "Wilton" said that ATF agents dropped into the school while the shooting was beginning -- if this is true, it has never been admitted to and it would be the earliest law-enforcement entrance into the building. Furthermore, it would throw serious suspicion onto the ATF, as the shooting continued on for hours.


Now, with this knowledge, consider that officially, the shooting was carried out by two troubled teenagers who couldn't aim.

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Unread post by SimonJCP » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:05 pm


Columbine Massacre: April 20, 1999
Release of The Matrix: March 31, 1999

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Unread post by Jazza » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:08 pm

That looks like the 2nd Matrix movie. Which was released in 2003.

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Unread post by freewayrickyross » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:42 pm

here is most of the videos that can still be found including the 3 hr cafeteria surveilance tape and the video of chris morris being arrested at the scene along with others (splatterpunks ) and other key videos ... 34df67d203

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Unread post by hoi.polloi » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:53 pm

Is there reasonable explanation for the security cameras in that school?

I remember when they tried installing more security at my school as a result of Columbine, but I don't remember there being much in the schools I knew.

Was this a private school? Is it near a military "safe city" or something like that?

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Unread post by idschmyd » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:12 pm

I can't confirm there were genuine killings, let alone who might have done them, but if indeed there were shootings, and if SimonJCP’s Ralph ‘Starviego Starvosan’ Zaeschmar's info is to be trusted, then it looks like there were other killers involved, and it’s well possible that some kind of hypnosis/mind training, something of a MkUltra nature, was used to get the kids to do the shootings.

For more info on mindbending and methods, you could do worse than enjoy this UK TV show called The Heist, by illusionist/mentalist/magician Derrren Brown, in which he turns a group of middle managers into armed robbers on a Channel 4 budget.

Meanwhile, this is Dave Sanders, C'bine coach and victim. Is there innocent explanation for the relationship between beard and glasses on the right?


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Unread post by fbenario » Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:35 am

SimonJCP 4 Jun 17 2010, 10:58 AM wrote: Now, with this knowledge, consider that officially, the shooting was carried out by two troubled teenagers who couldn't aim.
I'm confused. Last night I asked anyone with info that Columbine was a psyop to please post it. Now this thread appears, asking the question whether Columbine was real, and the first post gives a long list of witnesses who said that, not only was it real, but it involved more than the two famous shooters.

Given our questions about so many other famous incidents of the last 50 years, I still have to ask, was Columbine real? Did anyone die? Did anyone die at VA Tech?

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Unread post by SimonJCP » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:25 am

Is there reasonable explanation for the security cameras in that school?

According to Donna Taylor, the mother of one of the alleged wounded, the school's Principal, Frank DeAngelis, was friends with Bill Clinton:

Connections like that might make it easier for you to get government grants for security extras. Plus, we know that Columbine High was in the heart of the military/intelligence/defense community.

There are, however, issues surrounding the cameras. On Page 1627 of the FBI report, we're told that Columbine had surveillance camera in it's library. Here we're also told that on April 23, the existence of a surveillance system in the library was acknowledged by investigators. However, when we read on, we discover that the story changed on April 24 -- there was no surveillance camera in the library, according to the police. CRTF maintained, based on their sources, that there was video surveillance in the library and that this was covered up.

One witness, a woman named Sydney Keating, talked about cameras that show a view of the outside of the library. She reported these to the authorities. The section of the Columbine report relating to her story can be found here:


Other cameras were "inoperative" that day. The planting of the large bombs in the cafeteria wasn't caught on film because the film just happened to be switched by a custodian while they were planting the devices. :rolleyes:

Was this a private school? Is it near a military "safe city" or something like that?

It was in the heart of one. In addition to having a notoriously corrupt police department that reportedly housed the FBI's counter-intelligence division, they are also home to Lockheed Martin, which happens to be the largest employer in the area.

Bill Zabel, a researcher who was down there to investigate, tells us:

Also I have been told that the entire Columbine area is what is called; "A
Safe Commnity" by the U.S. Military and the CIA, NSA, DIA, etc. This kind of
community is created specifically for former and reitred members of the U.S.
Intelligence Community. Now not all people living there are ex-intel, but most
are and every other family I talked to admits that the father or mother and in
some cases both were ONI, G2, OSI, etc. There are also people in the community
that were involved in the Denver International Airport land deals, total
corruption there.

The community is also home to:
-A notoriously corrupt police department that houses the offices of FBI Intelligence
-A Comcast division that houses NSA offices

And, of course, Lockheed Martin. Lockheed Martin is the biggest employer in the area. It's one of the flagships, if not the flagship, of the Military-Industrial Complex, and is not at all separate from military/intelligence covert operations.

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Unread post by SimonJCP » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:49 am

Columbine Video Fakery


The "cafeteria footage" can be found here, and is used as evidence that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold acted alone in carrying out the shooting:

CRTF reports on one expert who recognized the footage as fake when they saw it. They explain their reasons for this stance:

Please note the following comments made by a Denver researcher, "This is my professional opinion -- having worked in film and video for years -- that the video has been fooled around with. If you look at the stills, they are in blue. But the CCTV camera in the cafeteria is black and white. Now, for the reason you use a blue haze on a black and white film or still [is] simple, a blue haze put over a black and white frame will cast shadows on the subjects in the frame, thereby clouding the clarity of the video frame. Now, why would you do that? Simple; so that you can't see clearly the faces of the people in the frame. I should know, I do this on feature films when I'm doing lighting to cast shadows on the actors faces to make them seem mysterious."

Bill Zabel offers his expertise on the subject -- he states that the video is a fake:

"Are you saying that they doctored the footage?

"That's my professional opinion because I was trained in film and video post-production. And if you blow that up on an Avid Works station, you can see little pixels around Harris and Klebold. As they move in slow motion, you can see those pixels changing color, which they should not if they are in that frame originally recorded as they were walking around in the cafeteria. You talk to any video expert, uh, in fact I tell people, go find your own expert, take the footage, and let them look at it. I guarantee they'll come to the same conclusion."

So, who faked it? Well, Sheriff John Stone gives us the answer:

Stone also said a video tape from a surveillance camera in the school cafeteria was being examined. 'From what I understood from our investigators,' Stone told reporters, 'there is graphic information on there, and it was being sent to Washington, D.C. to the FBI lab to have this tape enhanced.'"

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Unread post by MartinL » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:53 am

Maybe these people should get a copy of September Clues?

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Unread post by hoi.polloi » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:02 am

fbenario @ Jun 18 2010, 01:35 AM wrote:
SimonJCP 4 Jun 17 2010, 10:58 AM wrote: Now, with this knowledge, consider that officially, the shooting was carried out by two troubled teenagers who couldn't aim.
I'm confused. Last night I asked anyone with info that Columbine was a psyop to please post it. Now this thread appears, asking the question whether Columbine was real, and the first post gives a long list of witnesses who said that, not only was it real, but it involved more than the two famous shooters.

Given our questions about so many other famous incidents of the last 50 years, I still have to ask, was Columbine real? Did anyone die? Did anyone die at VA Tech?
My curiosity exactly, fbenario.

I created this topic out of an interest to pursue that question.

So far what we've gathered from SimonJCP is a host of fascinating information about cover-ups within cover-ups ... but I personally haven't found an "entry" point to this story that I find quite believable yet. Thanks SimonJCP for collecting all this info and posting it here. It is definitely a good summary of what's going on within the 'conspiracy theory' circles of the Columbine investigation.

One of my biggest concerns is the use of "MK-Ultra" hypnotism to make people act in accordance with direct instruction, like mind-controlled zombies. This was the (I presume deliberate) rumor circulated about both Columbine and the Virginia Tech incidents.

What doesn't sit right with me about the "MK-Ultra" explanation is that it presumes any given news story or conspiracy theory story coming out of these events, if they were events, positions us as "more informed" than before. We don't know if all of those stories' intentions are so admirable. Perhaps, like the false Al Qaeda stories, they are various threads of a single story weaver, who has developed the entire thing to net our minds within a false reality.

Pages upon pages of witness testimony no longer phase me, given the extreme amounts of diarrhea exuded by the news over 9/11, and the third shooter - or up to 10 shooters - are not compelling enough stories to get me re-invested in the news media's lying habits and adherence to fictional scripts (no doubt developed in private meetings with top brass individuals).

In an ideal world, I'd like to start with the question: does the school 'Columbine' exist? If so, where? What is its relationship to the self-declared elite's "Goddess of America, Columbia" and how much does any symbolic significance indicate a novelistic, fabricated quality in the entire story? If the school does exist, might it have been selected for this symbolic significance? If that's just as likely as a "random" school in the U.S.A., what factors are involved that caused this story to take place specifically at Columbine?

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Unread post by MartinL » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:20 am

One of the students who helped produce a 1997 video that's similar to the April 20 assault on Columbine High School is the son of the FBI's lead agent in the investigation.

Scott Fuselier is not considered a suspect in the April 20 shootings. Why was Dwayne Fuselier the head of the FBI investigation?
His son was a former member of the Trench Coat Mafia. Wouldn't that be the *last* senior FBI man to put in that spot?
The many Christians who felt Columbine was a religious crime,

Officials with the FBI said Friday their lead investigator in the Columbine High tragedy will stay in his post despite close ties to the school.

Dwayne Fuselier's son graduated from Columbine in 1997 and was one of the students who produced a videotape more than two years ago that shows TRENCHCOAT-WEARING STUDENTS ARMED WITH WEAPONS MOVING THROUGH THE SCHOOL'S HALLS.

The film ends with four students walking away from the school as it EXPLODES IN FLAMES. ... _mafia.htm

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Unread post by idschmyd » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:09 pm

IceDash 4 Jun 18 2010, 03:02 AM wrote: Image

You should know that better, it was quite normal for glasses to do that. Try dipping straw in water and look from the top view, it look like it was cut off but it the water effect
The water effect it know do I well but I still see both portion of my disjointed straw; one half doesn't disappear. But hey, I'm not pushing the image fakery path too strongly here. Other victims provide unlikely images - very blurred with inexplicable detail, pairs of images inexplicably re-sized, coloured, framed, even flipped (in my observation) - but also collections of passable-looking photography.

A round of image pairs available here:

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Unread post by freewayrickyross » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:55 pm

some beards puff out till they reach the sideburn then are brought in this is a possibility

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