TransAsia 235 TAIPEI river plane crash

Anything on the news and elsewhere in the media with evidence of digital manipulation, bogus story-lines and propaganda

Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Maat on February 16th, 2015, 8:52 am

Cobra Commander wrote:
Maat wrote:One can't really determine what discrepancies there might be in images with entirely different view perspectives, CC. Zoom lenses can also make distant objects seem closer (would need more views from that bridge to compare). What does seem odd, though, if that debris and "wing" part is supposed to be right at the spot it "crashed" through, there's not even a mark on the barrier — but it "vaporised" a light pole? :huh:

Maat,

I understand and took that into consideration (Verrazano 9/11 debate), but the additional structures around that factory structure is inconsistent in multiple pictures tells me these are fake backgrounds. Image
Image
That is clearly the same building in both photos.
The background images just keep changing, and that building with the aluminum chimney stack is missing from the second pic, as is the building directly to the left of the building in both pics. Also, where is that bridge that we see on the other side of the river, as posted in my previous post?

Anyway, the buildings still seem way too close even with the zoom issue and different lenses in the first pic.

I see this as smoking gun photo fakery for the Taipei psy-op, and that's not even counting the tampered with debris in my last post.

If anybody can find the higher resolution and larger pic of the 2nd photo, please post it for me. I've seen it before, but can't find it again.

CC, it's not enough to just believe or declare a photo fake, we have to be able to demonstrate it clearly & unequivocally — with images of the same scene from the same or very similar perspective. Those you posted are really all too different; in elevation, distance, angles etc. Yes, your last post with the Leaning Towers of Taipei is very weird; but could you explain exactly why you believe it couldn't be a real photo to a guest just reading this topic?

Re the images of debris on the road, from different directions — there's no way to know what the timeline was supposed to be, so how would one prove it wasn't moved, run over, taken or messed with by passers by, for example. The evidence has to be irrefutable & undebunkable before we can call anything a "smoking gun".

To find other sizes of images, just drag & drop it into Google search & then "search by image"; e.g. that Getty image of the river (can't be hotlinked): http://www.gettyimages.com/editorial/cl ... r-pictures

Taipei-Pixel-Plane-river.jpg
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Cobra Commander on February 16th, 2015, 9:46 am

Maat,

I'm a catastrophe property claims adjuster, both commercial and residential. I've taken thousands upon thousands of photos with high quality cameras provided by the largest insurance companies you can think of, but I can't name due to NDA's and security access agreements. I've taken thousands upon thousands of photos of structures, and I'm certain no camera is going to make the background structures that large from this distance...

Image
My building is still not visible in this picture, so its even further back.

As for the debris moving, in an event like this, protocol is supposed to be the road shut down and no debris removed. Hell, in Cincinnati, where I live, they shut down I-75 to investigate T.I. and his posse getting shot. Also as an insurance adjuster going in to investigate catastrophes, we are not supposed to move any debris from the event.

As for the Leaning Towers of Taipei, that is simple. The person/people who created this image did not straighten up their inserted photoshop building images, leaving them crooked. This may be due to them being lazy, or they had a tough time placing them on hill. I am certain that was the reason for the leaning image. We've seen the Leaning Tower of Pisa, but there is no way they are going to have that many leaning buildings that are either apartment buildings, or offices. I would like to also add that when you place crooked images in a photo, it makes the crooked images look more 2 dimensional. Somebody tried to counter with it was a wide lens, but that would cause the same effect on the opposite side of the picture, which it doesnt. I dont know if anybody recalls all the wide lens rap videos of the late. 90's, but that's a good example of what the wide lens effect would look like.

Edit: now that I think about it, if we go back to the pic of the guy walking on the bridge, my building is behind him. Since he is pretty much in line with where the plane went down, as evident with the debris he is by, my factory building should be visible in the above pic, but isn't.
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Cobra Commander on February 16th, 2015, 12:47 pm

This is a great example of how the Leaning Towers of Taipei are screwed up in photoshop...

Image

Image

As you can see in this Vicsim photoslop of Vicsim Calixto Anaya I found a while ago, the daughter of the Vicsim is crooked and leaning back, making her 2 dimensional instead of the other characters. We have the same error made in the Leaning Towers pic that makes them 2 dimensional. Hopefully this makes it easier for readers unfamiliar with fakery to understand why the photos are fake.
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby brianv on February 16th, 2015, 3:44 pm

Now I know "we" aren't entirely comfortable with photographic forensics as such but...

Image

http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?i ... 41&fmt=ela

Stripped of any meaningful EXIF data. Not that there was any to begin with, if my suspicions about the creation of these images is correct.
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Flabbergasted on February 16th, 2015, 7:21 pm

Cobra Commander wrote:This is a great example of how the Leaning Towers of Taipei are screwed up in photoshop...

I wouldn´t be surprised if it was all fake and photoshop, but the "leaning" buildings on the left and the "leaning" piles on the right are not evidence of photoshop, but of keystoning. My own shitty pocket camera does an even worse job, especially when it is tilted in relation to the horizon (as in the picture you posted).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_effect
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby hoi.polloi on February 16th, 2015, 10:36 pm

Yes, I agree. There may be poor imitations of the phenomenon in fakery, and we might be able to see them once in a while, but it's a normal and real consequence of using some cameras. Check out Real Estate photographs.
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Houdini on February 16th, 2015, 10:52 pm

Apologies for my earlier screw-up. Here is a nearly 2-hour video of the "rescue operation" from Russia Today news network. I don't know if they purport this to be from their own camera crew or a feed from someone else (how does Russia Today get a camera crew on the scene in minutes?).


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paUO9A_L-w0

I haven't watched the whole thing yet but seeing how many pontoon boats are surrounding the plane, it shows the incongruity of the "happy ending" photo Simon posted earlier. Seeing how deeply the plane is submerged and how none of the rescue workers are getting out of their boats and standing, it can't possibly be waist-deep water. The people in the "happy ending" photo, provided they weren't injured, could have easily waded to shore without any rescue help.

At 19:40, the camera view briefly switches to a different view, so there were at least two cameras. Then at 22 minutes the original view zooms back to the full scene and a hand comes around with a rag and wipes the camera lens - nice touch! :P This camera appears to be shooting from nearly the same location as the long-range still photo Cobra Commander posted (with the tilted buildings). Might be useful to compare both scenes for anomalies...

That's all I have to report so far. I still have another hour and a half to watch...
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Cobra Commander on February 16th, 2015, 11:27 pm

Flabbergasted wrote:I wouldn´t be surprised if it was all fake and photoshop, but the "leaning" buildings on the left and the "leaning" piles on the right are not evidence of photoshop, but of keystoning. My own shitty pocket camera does an even worse job, especially when it is tilted in relation to the horizon (as in the picture you posted).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_effect

Keystone effect would affect the background and foreground, creating a trapezoid out of the entire photo.

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product ... ction.aspx

The foreground is fine in the Leaning Towers photo. The ever-changing background is what is all screwy.

hoi.polloi wrote:Yes, I agree. There may be poor imitations of the phenomenon in fakery, and we might be able to see them once in a while, but it's a normal and real consequence of using some cameras. Check out Real Estate photographs.

Haha! Real Estate photos are another gig of mine. Being an independent catastrophe adjuster, I only work when a catastrophe (hurricane/wind/hail/snow/etc...) has been declared by the insurance companies. In the down time I have to find work, so I do photography for real estate and banks on foreclosed homes.

This reminds me that I'm supposed to do my monthly check-in for insurance adjusting. I just so happen to have to call my dispatcher, whom is the daughter-in-law to my very first insurance adjuster manager. What does this have to do with everything in this thread? My first insurance adjusting manager/trainer happens to be a former FAA Investigator, and the top airline crash analyst for CNN who is their go to guy for the Asian airline crash wave. I always pick his daughter-in-law's brain when I call in about each crash. I can't wait to pick his brain again. I would drill him on this Taipei Creek crash. I remember asking him a million questions about 9/11 and him just joking about how silly the terrorists threat on planes are. Paranoid people wrapped a guy in bubble wrap that they thought was a terrorists. Hold on... bubble wrap... box cutters... I solved 9/11! Terrorists are package handlers!

Sorry for the rant. Haha!
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Flabbergasted on February 17th, 2015, 12:02 am

Cobra Commander wrote:Keystone effect would affect the background and foreground, creating a trapezoid out of the entire photo.

I don´t want to be stubborn or anything, but I do see a trapezoid. It´s just that there are no tall structures in the foreground to highlight the distortion.
Image
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Cobra Commander on February 17th, 2015, 1:07 am

Flabbergasted wrote:I don´t want to be stubborn or anything, but I do see a trapezoid. It´s just that there are no tall structures in the foreground to highlight the distortion.

The river lines would highlight the distortions. I don't see any distortion to the river at all. The blue building to the right by the river appears to have a little curvature to it, but the distortions all stop once the background hits the water.

BTW... I don't think you're being stubborn. Its good to question every little possible flaw a camera could produce. It's needed in our research just so that we know every single counter argument we may receive. Its constructive criticism.
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Cobra Commander on February 17th, 2015, 8:40 am

Ok, I was wrong that the distortion appeared to end at the water. Why the leaning towers are so noticeable is because the dwellings right in front of the leaning buildings are straight, and not leaning as much. I found that I could manipulate the results of trying to prove or disprove the Keystone Effect by drawing a line from a person at the bottom of the screen to prove either point. The people are too far away in the pic, and how do you determine where on a person to draw a line from??? I found that you can see the straight lines on the sides of the dwellings, and they are right beneath the buildings. Here's the Leaning Towers of Taipei once again, with the example lines drawn in red. People can easily do this themselves in Paint to see.

Image

I'm certain that they tried to recreate the Keystone Effect, and leaned images too much. So, Flabbergasted is right, and so am I. To hopefully explain how they got it wrong in Photoshop to people that might or might not understand Photoshop...

Imagine that you have a straight on shot photo of buildings. Now, you erase the background of those buildings so you can add them in to a different photo. Even though you erased the background, your buildings image is still contained in a square from that original square photo. To change the angle of that image to get the desired effect in this photo, they needed to grab the right side of the image, but it looks like they manipulated it by grabbing just the right corner and turning it. You can also try the left side by pulling the corner of the image up, but that is a worse way to angle the photo. They tried to create a Keystone Effect, but they pulled that upper right corner back too much, bringing it out of alignment with the houses right below it. The houses look alright for the Keystone, but they help highlight the buildings a lot, as shown in my above photo.

I think I'm done with the towers of Taipei. Time to find something new to add to the thread. :D
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Maat on February 17th, 2015, 1:04 pm

*
To revisit the “guy on bridge + debris” pic with a building behind (as a reference point): it's captioned: “A man walks past the wreckage of a TransAsia Airways plane which hit a motorway before crash landing in a river, in New Taipei City, Feb. 4, 2015. (REUTERS/Stringer)” Pic 6 @ http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/02/05/tai ... e-take-off

The view of the river wreckage with bridge (screenshot only @ http://harare24.com/index-id-news-zk-27196.html) does show the edge of that building, but there is no missing light pole shown on the bridge within this view of the wreckage — the spaces between them diminish consistently (i.e. same number of concrete sections beneath):

Taipei-Pixel-Plane-river-wreckage-bridge1a.jpg
(still haven't found the video it's from)

The building is shown in this video, far left, at 3s: http://youtu.be/HzW3ZQw9U7Q

Taipei-Pixel-plane-river-wreckage-bridge+building1.jpg

Here’s a poorer quality variant with different views (but not of the building): http://youtu.be/5VXVu3HQZXw

So, it's difficult to determine where the "plane" was supposed to have clipped the bridge; whether farther to the right of the video-depicted viewpoints, drifted downstream (whichever way that is), or they simply forgot to remove a light pole from their stock image layer for the video.


P.S. Just a little reminder for all: This forum’s protocol is to include the original page source links for our images in every post (even when added somewhere on an earlier one, no one should have to page back to find them). Serious research requires easily referenced sources, especially when dealing with multiple issues.
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Cobra Commander on February 17th, 2015, 2:36 pm

Maat,

I had the original link for the pics in my Leaning Towers first post, which is at the bottom of page 4, and now it comes up as a 404 error. The missing pole I believe is supposed to be across from the second light post from the right, which is just before your last arrow. There looks to be something sticking up where the light post is supposed to be.

Lesta on YouTube posted this video. At around the 4 minute mark, a guy walks by the top of the downed light pole and his shadow disappears. He also exposes Evil Edna's claim of the passenger in the Taxi cab.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COpY5jlPJPU
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Houdini on February 17th, 2015, 4:11 pm

With all of the emergency rescue people adorned in helmets, life vests and wetsuits that we see in later photos, why are two guys in civvies among the first ones on the scene, and standing on the plane?! Image

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/ ... st-19.html
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Re: TAIPEI river plane crash

Postby Maat on February 17th, 2015, 4:56 pm

Cobra Commander wrote:Maat,

I had the original link for the pics in my Leaning Towers first post, which is at the bottom of page 4, and now it comes up as a 404 error. The missing pole I believe is supposed to be across from the second light post from the right, which is just before your last arrow. There looks to be something sticking up where the light post is supposed to be.

Lesta on YouTube posted this video. At around the 4 minute mark, a guy walks by the top of the downed light pole and his shadow disappears. He also exposes Evil Edna's claim of the passenger in the Taxi cab. [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COpY5jlPJPU ]

You'll have to specify which arrow you mean, there are no missing poles in the image I annotated.

Anyway, I’m only interested in the original sources, not a Youtube Debunkers’ Duet effectively promoting each other. Notice he didn’t even bother to list the original reference sources in his notes, I had to find AAP’s video to get them. <_<

e.g. Shadow Man & "pole" ► 32s (remember that "pole" was depicted as hit with such force it vanished & would not have just dropped straight down onto the road beneath, regardless)


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7seFmr3gVA

View of wreckage in river from debris on bridge:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRrfQRbySGI


“Drone’s-eye” view of the bridge, wreckage & river starting at 3:24


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vTitUdyF_Y

Love the buzzing noise, sounds like a flatulent bee :lol: — guess to convince you it’s really a drone (I wondered if real drones did record their own noise; I've now been reliably informed that they do)

For the taxi driver story: http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/drive ... raumatised
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