FUKUSHIMA nuke/tsunami scare 11-03-11

Anything on the news and elsewhere in the media with evidence of digital manipulation, bogus story-lines and propaganda
daozen
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by daozen »

nonhocapito wrote:
daozen wrote:Well I see to many differences between HAARP and the Nuclear Hoax (fukushima I suppose?) to even compare them. Everyone in the world got their eyes stuffed with images and news on the earthquake/tsunami/nuclear whatever where as most in the world have no idea of what haarp is.
This is what I meant by "conspiracy factor". It is true that if (a big IF) HAARP is a hoax, it obviously works in a different way than the Nuke hoax: rather than offering it to us as an official truth they let it pass as an hidden truth. But the final purpose is still to scare a certain percentage of the population into the idea that end-of-the-world weapons do exist, and that they are in the hands of very dangerous criminals (as depicted by Kubrick's "Doctor Strangelove"): thus we all better accept any "reasonable" alternative offered to us.

Powerful weapons are very scary. They are meant to be scary much more than they are meant to be used. It is not unthinkable to imagine that military superpowers could evolve into organizations devoted to fear alone, that do not even have to waste energy to actually invent and construct weapons of mass destruction. Like those venomous animals that evolved to just show the signs of animals carrying venom, without actually having to waste energy to produce it.
daozen wrote:Saying that it's "pushed" by Alex Jones and Jesse Ventura is absolutely irrelevant and a fallacy no?
I feel like reminding us this detail because to me it is an added clue pointing in the direction of the psyop. Alex Jones is a professional fear-monger: he speculates and exploits all possible, imaginable fears (especially male fears), and has used 9/11 as a leverage to suggest even more of those fears in a subtle but powerful way: the final picture of the world according to him is one of constant threat and constant secrecy -- which is ideal to get your public to wait from you to hear what's to do next.
daozen wrote:I mean what is it about "September Clues" that convinced you (I pressumed) the "fake" vids where not "faked", if that makes any sense, lol.
I think I understand what you mean, but I don't see a real similarity with September Clues: SC takes imagery produced by the mass media and turns it inside out proving it is a forgery. You don't need to be a video expert or an engineer to see the stitching, so to speak. Imagery and data about HAARP comes to us already packaged to persuade us of the reality of HAARP, only a scientist could "turn it inside out" and you would have to trust that scientist. These are the situations that are perfect to fool people. I refuse to get to that level. I remain in mine, where I see strange things that I have no way to judge. Maybe tomorrow some conditions will arise where I will be able to take a clearer stance about this. For example, HAARP will be officially denied or officially admitted, using some official, MSM imagery as proof. We will be able to judge it then.
daozen wrote:What other explanation do you have for the fact that the whole hoax was built and shown for a specific date right after a quake. As far as I remember the fact that there was some sort of quake in Japan is a fact no?
Check out this post of mine, right at the beginning of this thread: http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2351299#p2351299
You will see how many doubts I expressed -- even on the observations Simon was making about the fakery in the videos; observation that later on I had to admit were largely well-founded, since I started spotting traces of fakery myself.

And you will see that already then I defined the HAARP problem in the same exact terms we are discussing it now: If HAARP is fantasy, how could they have an earthquake happen precisely on a certain spooky date like 3/11?

It is following questions like these, that have no proper, immediate answer, that my opinion remains "floating" and perplexed. Before the Japan earthquake, I was much more certain that HAARP was pure psyop. Now, as I said, I don't know. On one hand I don't wanna fall for a psyop trap, adding to the collective fears, helping someone like Alex Jones in his dirty job: at the same time I cannot deny that certain earthquakes or related "disasters" look like man-made events hyped by fakery. (Other examples could include the volcano in Iceland or the old tsunami of the 26th of December 2004, etc.)
Man, I'm glad I found this forum, it's so nice to be able to discuss matters rationally, thanks.

Anyway, yeah I say I would agree with your overall stance, or atleast I think it's a rational one. I'll just say a few things about a few things.

On Alex Jones, he might be fear-mongering, but I think it's more a result of his own world-view and paranoia. I think the guy is honest about most if not all he says, but I think he just isn't smart enough to see how certain things work, including his own mind. At the same time, I think he puts out a lot of valid information, and I would say that most of it is. He just adds the paranoid angle to it which taints the info. Rightly so? I don't know. I certaintly don't see it as a sign of a psyop and in fact would trust most of what he says as pointing out the psyops.

"Imagery and data about HAARP comes to us already packaged to persuade us of the reality of HAARP" Does it?

"only a scientist could "turn it inside out"" mmm... Scientist as in according to society or as someone who practices science? If we take the second defination anyone can turn it inside out.

"These are the situations that are perfect to fool people.[/u] I refuse to get to that level."
Seems you are afraid to be a "fool" if you believe in HAARP. Nothing wrong, but there seems to be a particular aprenhension, embarrasment, no?

I haven't really reasearched what's behind all those dates' numbers, they are the ones the aluminazi like or something right? lol, anyway. I'm not even talking about that but about orchestrating all the media fakery to be released right after a natural quake. Is it not irrational to think they could have not done it unless the quake was also man-made?

hey, Is there a HAARP thread? maybe there should be one?
Last edited by daozen on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nonhocapito
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by nonhocapito »

daozen wrote:On Alex Jones, he might be fear-mongering, but I think it's more a result of his own world-view and paranoia. I think the guy is honest about most if not all he says, but I think he just isn't smart enough to see how certain things work, including his own mind.
I disagree with you. I think that Alex Jones is a propagandist and an half-criminal with a fake identity, actively working at herding and steering "people with questions" in all the wrong directions or to blind alleys. Whatever valid things he gives you, it is to lure you in his maze were people are supposed to waste years, decades of their lives. Look into the "truthers and shills" forum on this board for more about him and the likes of him.
"Imagery and data about HAARP comes to us already packaged to persuade us of the reality of HAARP" Does it?
"only a scientist could "turn it inside out"" mmm... Scientist as in according to society or as someone who practices science? If we take the second defination anyone can turn it inside out.
As far as I can tell there is nothing about HAARP that I can dismantle and understand properly. It "looks like", it "sounds like", science -- but without being knowledgeable into that field, I have to take it at face value. I see a diagram, I see a trace of activity, I'm told what it is -- but I do not really understand it in its entirety and cannot even be sure it is not just a bunch of random lines and numbers and bizarre ideas. Which most of the times I tend to think it is.
So I'd have to take a leap of faith and consciously decide to believe it. By doing so, I compromise myself: and from that moment on I will be even more eager to convince others that my leap of faith is right, because that way I'll convince myself too.
Seems you are afraid to be a "fool" if you believe in HAARP. Nothing wrong, but there seems to be a particular aprenhension, embarrasment, no?
No. Once again: HAARP is not something you have to "believe in". It is something you are supposed to understand. If you cannot understand it, either because there is not enough data, or you cannot really judge its relevance and validity, or the sources are unknown, then it is not very wise to declare "belief", trusting whatever work has been done by someone else. Avoiding this is not "being afraid to be a fool", that's simply not being a fool.
I haven't really reasearched what's behind all those dates' numbers, they are the ones the iluminati likes or something right? lol, anyway. I'm not even talking about that but about orchestrating all the media fakery to be released right after a natural quake. Is it not irrational to think they could have not done it unless the quake was also man-made?
Let's skip on the illuminati... But it is the same thing: orchestrating all the media fakery or matching a precise date means foreknowledge. Of course there are other possibilities: for instance, they got lucky with the date (same date as the Madrid bombing; same figures of many emergency phone numbers; but it is possible) and they were prepared with faked material to capitalize right away on the next big earthquake that was about to come in Japan. Considering there's many every year, it is not impossible. So you see why even an incredible coincidence like the japan earthquake isn't enough to declare HAARP undoubtedly true.
hey, Is there a HAARP thread? maybe there should be one?
No there isn't one... personally I hope there won't be one for the time being, simply because there is not enough material to judge rationally with general understanding of its meaning and certainty of the sources: the thread would probably just turn very quickly into a pointless dispute among "believers" and "non-believers". I'd wait for new events or facts that shall allow us to work on that topic from the point of view of media fakery and propaganda, which is what we do here. (Comparatively, I can discuss the Nuke Hoax without being a nuclear scientist, because I can discuss and understand the elements of propaganda and fakery behind it, which I can use as a map to orientate myself.)
daozen
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by daozen »

I will take a look at at the truthers shills thread, but you are kind of on point with all you say here. I guess I have not anything to add, lol. Maybe I will find time to research the matter more closely and share any evidence or whatever if I find any. Thanks ;)
fbenario
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by fbenario »

daozen wrote:I mean $250 million (atleast) is quite a bit
to be studying what the colors of the aurora borealis are ain'it?
Why do you think anyone spent any dollars on anything at all? What led you to speak with such strong certainty on this point?

What makes this one number on some government budget any more believable than anything else government says?
daozen
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by daozen »

fbenario wrote:
daozen wrote:I mean $250 million (atleast) is quite a bit
to be studying what the colors of the aurora borealis are ain'it?
Why do you think anyone spent any dollars on anything at all? What led you to speak with such strong certainty on this point?

What makes this one number on some government budget any more believable than anything else government says?
Agreed! It could be any number, I should have written "allegedly"
Heiwa
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by Heiwa »

I like Germany and the German Gesellschaft für Anlagen und Reaktorsicherheit (GRS) mbH has now explained (or tried to explain) what happened at Fukushima a year ago:
http://www.grs.de/sites/default/files/p ... ma_WEB.pdf
What we know (?) is that there was an earthquake centered out at sea, a tsunami and that the big tsunami waves flooded the Fukushima Daiichi atomic power plants and destroyed the cooling systems of the plants (and killed two people of the staff). Due to lack of cooling the plants overheated, all water in the plants boiled off and the fuel elements’ uranium oxide and surrounding metal elements melted.

What happened then is not clear as nobody has really tested what happens when an atomic power plant overheats and the 68 tons core of uranium oxide melts due to lack of cooling. It is suggested that when the temperature was 1200°C and the Zirconium pipes (filled with uranium oxide) melted, hydrogen gas was produced one way or another and escaped through some safety valves, when it mixed with external air (oxygen), there were explosions and the roofs of the power plant buildings blew off (as seen on TV). Ok, why not?

But the actual reactor vessels of steel/concrete remained intact in spite of the temperature rising to 2850°C with everything inside in fluid form. No further (atomic bomb) explosions due to exponential chain reactions, etc, etc as atomic bombs do not work anyway – http://heiwaco.tripod.com/bomb.htm . And evidently nobody was roasted to death by 2850°C heat.

The clever Japanese power plant staff later managed to cool down the reactors using sea water and there we are today. Nobody has died from atomic, radioactive radiation of any kind at and around Fukushima. Several thousand people are working on the site cleaning up the mess and the radiation level is at about 30 microSievert/day, which is very low. It seems you can absorb several hundred milliSievert/year and still be fit (as there is no scientific evidence to the contrary). :rolleyes:

People in the surroundings want to go back to their houses/businesses as they consider it safe, but … they are prevented. Plenty of ‘experts’ say it is dangerous, etc, but when you ask for evidence you get … nothing. :o

My feeling is that it is more dangerous to expose oneself to the sun on a sunny beach during summer than to return to Fukushima. :D
nonhocapito
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by nonhocapito »

Thanks for the recap, Heiwa. Very useful.
I remember having read somewhere that it would take million of years to return that area back to normalcy: that it would end like Cernobyl, devoid of humanity and even of animals! And yet people are working on the site, and there seems to be no drama about their gloomy destiny!
I wonder what exactly is the attitude of the japanese government regarding the displacement and the future of that area. They are probably being very laconic about it, as the japanese are not famous for pretending answers or mistrusting the authority, I think.
confusioused
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by confusioused »

About if HAARP is real or not. I suspect it is as it doesn't take much ELF waves to shake the ground. But I guess that doesn't prove it either but I still believe they can from all research I have done. But if I remember correctly, the mods don't want a HAARP thread here. Anyways, here is a demonstration of ELF waves for earthquakes which they use the ELF waves to find oil and gas in the shale.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1jIjx0XF_U

Hope this works. I can't stay to fix right now if it doesn't, sorry. (plus I am computer illiterate :angry: )

edit: Sorry, I tried 3 times dangit.



(youtube link fixed - simon)
bostonterrierowner
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by bostonterrierowner »

confusioused wrote:About if HAARP is real or not. I suspect it is as it doesn't take much ELF waves to shake the ground. But I guess that doesn't prove it either but I still believe they can from all research I have done. But if I remember correctly, the mods don't want a HAARP thread here. Anyways, here is a demonstration of ELF waves for earthquakes which they use the ELF waves to find oil and gas in the shale.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1jIjx0XF_U

Hope this works. I can't stay to fix right now if it doesn't, sorry. (plus I am computer illiterate :angry: )

edit: Sorry, I tried 3 times dangit.



(youtube link fixed - simon)
ELF means 11 in german :)
daozen
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by daozen »

bostonterrierowner wrote:
ELF means 11 in german :)
;) that could mean a few things.
nonhocapito
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by nonhocapito »

confusioused wrote:Anyways, here is a demonstration of ELF waves for earthquakes which they use the ELF waves to find oil and gas in the shale.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1jIjx0XF_U
I am sorry but as far as I'm concerned this is not a "demonstration"... This is just a suggestive video foddered with pseudo-science endorsed by an engineer/actor who behaves like a con man. You cannot be persuaded by something like this and yet aspire to see through media fakery. How do you know this is not all bullshit?

If you are a scientist and this is your field, this video is completely useless for the total lack of scientific data, sources, papers etc. But of course this video is not for scientists who can understand these things properly! This video is for all the others, who are expected to simply "believe" anything the History Channel tells them while having no way to decipher what makes actual sense and what doesn't. In other words, it's TV.

Case 1: HAARP and the like is a real secret military project. If it is so, it makes absolutely no sense to imagine that a secret military project is hinted at on TV like this. Secret is secret.

Case 2: HAARP is military project that is being slowly revealed to the public, and such "documentaries" are a way to achieve that. In this case, we should understand why this would be happening and why this isn't happening in a way that is scientifically sound, persuasive and discussed at all academic levels. Why it remains confined into the realm of the suggestive 3-minutes videos of the crappy propaganda infrastructure that feeds us fakery day in day out?

Then there is case 3: HAARP is complete bullshit, and this is why all "demonstrations" of this technology look like chemtrails videos, all suggestive and not exhaustive under any point of view.

*

Image

BTW: this "doctor Agnew" who appears in this video is shown like a simple engineer who accidentally discovered some secret technology. But the truth is that Agnew is a professional "conspiracy theorist" who simply acts like the necessary "scientist on our side", which allows all those who already want to believe, to be entitled to believe.
(Because this is the "age of science", "science" is now required to "believe". :wacko: )

This is Agnew's website: http://www.arkofmillionsofyears.com/ Enjoy! B)
Dr. Agnew's interest in space exploration inspired him with friends at JPL, NASA, and Hughs. He entered the Air Force in 1973, where he graduated top in his class in electronics engineering & later graduated with honors in Chemistry from TN Tech. http://www.arkofmillionsofyears.com/The_Authors.htm
(I believe the official 9/11 conspiracy theorists have a number of similar "scientists" working with them with very similar intents).
hoi.polloi
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

My biased, very speculative sense is that either:

HAARP is mostly harmless
~or~
HAARP is something worth being extremely cautious about and that is precisely why it is being backwardly discredited through obvious annoying hype on mainstream television and mainstream "conspiracy" channels

But the fraudulent fake personality "Judy Wood" is not promoted on television in the parallel case of her useless "Space Beams" limited hangout is she/it? So HAARP to me feels a bit special in the fact that it is on television at all. Perhaps HAARP is mostly harmless and the Fukushima strike was induced by traditional methods: water pressure, dynamite or some such. Or the tsunami was merely predicted ahead of time and the power plant was just attacked and fake media prepared around it in order to cover up just how deliberate the attack was.

Anyway, nonhocapito is right - it seems like HAARP's media is all hype and no science, just like stuff on the History Channel that tries to discredit the moon landing debunkers. On the other hand, I am not trying to protect amazing technology I know nothing about, which is why we should critique it the 9/11 way - examine the bad media and process that we don't actually know the truth that is being hidden by it.
nonhocapito
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by nonhocapito »

hoi.polloi wrote:HAARP [could be] something worth being extremely cautious about and that is precisely why it is being backwardly discredited through obvious annoying hype on mainstream television and mainstream "conspiracy" channels
Yes, thank you! I was thinking about this possibility too but I couldn't find a way to express it clearly. It is possible that they are working to keep this subject confined into the conspiracy programming, to discourage actual scientists or researchers like us to look into it. But maybe we are granting them too much effort. It is very possible that they are handling the subject of HAARP "specially", allowing its abridged form to be "exposed" on TV, just like they allow it for UFOs, crop circles, or the mysteries of the egyptians.

Certain conspiracy subjects have evidently been elected by the brainwashing machine as useful on a mass scale: to disrupt values, destroy spirituality or sense of wonder, increase fears, fog rational thinking and in general "troll" the public into following pointless, inconclusive speculations. Maybe HAARP is simply, steadily growing into becoming one of these conspiracy "special" subjects.
HonestlyNow
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by HonestlyNow »

Image
Was the placement of a model of an emergency vehicle in the scene necessary for this demonstration?
I counted 14 close-up shots of this l'il red vehicle.
fbenario
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Re: Japan Earthquake 11-03-11

Unread post by fbenario »

nonhocapito wrote:This is Agnew's website: http://www.arkofmillionsofyears.com/ Enjoy! B)
Dr. Agnew's interest in space exploration inspired him with friends at JPL, NASA, and Hughes. He entered the Air Force in 1973, where he graduated top in his class in electronics engineering & later graduated with honors in Chemistry from TN Tech. http://www.arkofmillionsofyears.com/The_Authors.htm
Perp central!
Tennessee Technological University, popularly known as Tennessee Tech, is an accredited public university located in Cookeville, Tennessee, US, a city approximately seventy miles (110 km) east of Nashville.

Notable alumni
Rodney Atkins, Country music singer[6]
Jimmy Bedford, sixth master distiller at Jack Daniel's[7]
Robert Burton, Sr., CEO of Cenveo, Inc.
Roger K. Crouch, NASA astronaut[8]
Lincoln Davis, former U.S. congressman
Elois Grooms, former NFL player
Johnny H. Hayes, former TVA director and presidential campaign finance manager
Dwight Henry, former Tennessee state legislator and gubernatorial candidate
Bill Jenkins, former U.S. congressman
Andy Landers, women's basketball coach at the University of Georgia
Barbara McConnell, New Jersey state legislator[9]
Frank Omiyale, NFL player
David Simmons, Florida state senator[10]
Ken Sparks, football coach at Carson-Newman College
Scott Stallings, professional golfer
Carl Stiner, former Commander in Chief of the United States Special Operations Command
Harry Stonecipher, former CEO of Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, and Sundstrand
Lonnie Warwick, former NFL player
Barry Wilmore, NASA astronaut and United States Navy test pilot
Jim Youngblood, former NFL player

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_ ... University
I've unfortunately actually been to that stupid small Southern rural town.
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