Parenting In the Simulation Age

Questions, speculations & updates on the techniques and nature of media fakery

Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby SacredCowSlayer on June 25th, 2016, 7:53 pm

CluedIn wrote:Give me a break!

Florida Gov. Rick Scott has ordered 49 state flags to be placed at the State Capitol for 49 days in honor of Orlando shooting victims.

[Image


One can easily imagine school buses lining the street with herds of children to be taken on tours of "What Hate Looks Like" (or something like that) on the grounds. :puke: But maybe summer break (I'm not sure what the schedule is for schools there) will save them from the experience?

I suppose it doesn't make much difference if the kids are watching the "news" anyway. To say the least, I'm very grateful that my children have been able (and continue) to grow up without exposure to all the programming by the media and "schools".

It is certainly interesting to see how they relate to other people in their lives who aren't aware of fakery. They are always kind and gracious, and manage to either change the subject or say something vague so as to acknowledge the comment without agreeing with the premise of the story.

We have family discussions from time to time about how to do this, particularly as it relates to conversations with certain family members or other people. I'm not sure what would happen if they had to attend traditional institutions of "education". In any event I'm very glad I don't have to find out.

It has definitely challenged me and my wife as parents regarding how we teach them history and science. As they have matured (and as we deem appropriate) we have been explaining that there are many fabricated events (which often includes bogus science) that are widely taught and believed to be true by others in society. In many ways they can now spot fakery better than we can.

We laughed a while back about the thought of them hearing about the "moon landings" or 9/11 for the first time at a friend's house or some social setting simply because we don't want to teach fake history. I could picture my daughter falling out of her chair laughing when she sees a picture of the Apollo 11 LEM in front of her grandparents, and the conversations that would ensue. That was indeed her response when I first showed it to her. She likes to refer to it as either the "moon foil" or "space garbage". :lol:

The fakery itself is a big part of history, so it is important to teach. But that is a very abstract concept, so parents have to recognize when (and wait until) their child is ready (maturity wise). Needless to say, they need to be able to see it for themselves when they get older, and learn how to discern between fiction and reality.

These are interesting times to be raising kids for sure.
Last edited by SacredCowSlayer on June 26th, 2016, 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby simonshack on June 26th, 2016, 4:18 am

SacredCowSlayer wrote:These are interesting times to be raising kids for sure.


THERE.

You touched a point which makes my mind spin - particularly because I have no children of my own - but let me now pretend that I DO have bred some kids, for the sake of philosophical discussion.

Now, how on Earth could I possibly even begin - as a father - to tell my children about the massive amount of fakery produced by a restrict "club" of clownish psychopaths who have coalesced and decided to rule this world via deception ? How can I keep my children from being 'mentally hijacked' by their school teachers and the constant TV / news media propaganda? Funnily enough, I could even word it this way:

HOW CAN I PROTECT MY CHILDREN FROM THE CORPORATE MEDIA'S TT (THOUGHT-TERRORISM) ?

I simply don't know. Perhaps this underlying, core question is something that this discussion forum should start to tackle seriously - were it only to provide a basic 'charter' for overturning the utter insanity of the current state of affairs on this planet of ours. If we're not going to do anything about it - we might just as well say goodbye to every notion of self-determination and individuality.

As I always like to say: may reason prevail.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby nonhocapito on June 26th, 2016, 11:34 am

Well said Simon, just think of the amount of brainwashing kids in primary and secondary school go through in regards to the holocaust! Depressing lessons, terrifying trips to Auschwitz, guilt trips implanted in their little brains to last for decades. What is a parent to do? If you tell the child that these are lies and exaggerations, that this is propaganda, he will repeat it to other kids and be quickly singled out and made to feel even worse; even bringing down legal consequences for the parent. If you let the brainwashing go too far, it may be impossible later to show the child how this is not to be taken seriously. They might even resent you for not taking this seriously yourself.

And if you teach your child "doublethink", to hide from the world their ideas or feelings about such propaganda in order to deceive the authority, you make them into hypocrites and this is possibly the worst outcome.

But fakery is not the only thing to besiege the newcomers into this world. The sheer presence of violence, pornography, individualism, injustice, inequality, availability of drugs, the stupidity of science-worship or the stupidity of blind religion... no parent can fully or completely protect their own from such an assault of idiotic/manipulative/degenerative ideas and behaviours.

We all realize this and yet we put children out in the world hoping that along the way we will manage to equip them with tools to protect them. Knowing full well that there is no winning strategy here, only different forms of loss.

However in a sense it has always been this way, and it is nobody's place to say who will be enlightened and awake in the end, who will succumb to the assault. Some will always be aware.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby CluedIn on June 26th, 2016, 12:15 pm

SCS - I applaud you and your wife! My son (only 22) has 2 sons already and they are not vaccinated and will not attend public schools or private for that matter. My daughter-in-law plans to home school - ha! if it's even legal in Michigan when they are ready for school. Detroit (I'm in a suburb of) had a story a few years ago about a mother who killed and put her 2 kids in the freezer. The main focus of the story was that they were home-schooled and from there legislation started being written (don't think it has been passed) for the State to make visits to all home schoolers to check and make sure you did not murder your child since they cannot be head-counted daily in the indoctrination centers.

Teaching history will be very tricky. We are a few years away from that, but are still trying to figure out the best approach so as not to overload the kids.

I will say one thing, the medical community treats my grandchildren like they have the plague once they learn the are not vaccinated. My one grandson needed to be transported from one hospital to another and the woman at the desk (in front of my daughter-in-law) told the EMS driver that he was going to be transporting an unvaccinated infant (OH THE HORRORS!) The guy looked at her as if she was insane and later told my daughter-in-law that he does not vaccinate his own kids.
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Re: Pulse Gay Bar Orlando shooting, 12 June 2016

Postby SacredCowSlayer on June 26th, 2016, 4:23 pm

simonshack wrote:
SacredCowSlayer wrote:These are interesting times to be raising kids for sure.


THERE.

You touched a point which makes my mind spin - particularly because I have no children of my own - but let me now pretend that I DO have bred some kids, for the sake of philosophical discussion.

Now, how on Earth could I possibly even begin - as a father - to tell my children about the massive amount of fakery produced by a restrict "club" of clownish psychopaths who have coalesced and decided to rule this world via deception ? How can I keep my children from being 'mentally hijacked' by their school teachers and the constant TV / news media propaganda? Funnily enough, I could even word it this way:

HOW CAN I PROTECT MY CHILDREN FROM THE CORPORATE MEDIA'S TT (THOUGHT-TERRORISM) ?

I simply don't know. Perhaps this underlying, core question is something that this discussion forum should start to tackle seriously - were it only to provide a basic 'charter' for overturning the utter insanity of the current state of affairs on this planet of ours. If we're not going to do anything about it - we might just as well say goodbye to every notion of self-determination and individuality.

As I always like to say: may reason prevail.


Dear Simon,

Thank you for quickly understanding and appreciating the seriousness of this issue as it relates to those of us raising young children. I shudder to think how difficult it would be for me personally if I had only come to see the blanket of deception five or ten years later.

I have carefully read the thoughts and observations expressed by Noho and CluedIn, and it will come as no surprise to any of you that I must elaborate and bring this discussion to fruition. I have much to say (including hope and optimism rooted in practical options/solutions) as it relates to dealing with the legal realities, consequences, and the various issues raised by each post following mine (above).

But before I do that, I respectfully request that (perhaps beginning with my post above?) that this be moved to a New Topic called something like "Parenting In the Simulation Age", or another title if you can think of a better one.

My brother (I believe you already know his user name and connection to me) called me last night after reading my post and said "this needs to be a topic on its own" since it is so important. Plus it will likely derail the Orlando thread. I agreed, and a few minutes later I saw your reply which of course confirmed what he told me. Unfortunately it was late and I didn't have time to send a thorough reply.

I have been talking at length over a period of months with my youngest brother (who is also a lawyer and raising his own young children in another U.S. "State") about how we should go about raising these beautiful children that we have been given the honor and responsibility of raising. My hope would be to see him join in the discussion as he has given me vast insight into this issue that I likely would not have considered otherwise.

I look forward to seeing where this goes. Hopefully it will develop into a Charter (to use your word) or perhaps a guide of sorts where parents "waking up" (that phrase kind of irritates me- but I can't think of a better one right now) can come and get some no-nonsense practical advice on how to proceed. It's an intimidating and daunting task, so all the more reason to "flesh it out" and provide some wisdom.

Let me know how you (and/or the appropriate Mod) wishes to proceed, or of course simply feel free to move all this to an appropriately titled new topic as I requested above. It is your forum after all, so I deliberately and respectfully use the word "request".
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby hoi.polloi on June 27th, 2016, 1:52 am

Quite contrary to parents' fears that educating their children about fakery is going to ostracize them, I found that children talking about fakery among themselves were in a very strong position indeed in my school.

I suppose it depends on the school, but I had a quite inner-city education and my exposure to rumors of fakery among the children was a great foundation for my own skepticism, which evolved into quite a nuanced understanding after years of building the skill of cognitive dissonance, as I explained in my "rabbit trails" story on Fakeologist.com: http://fakeologist.com/about/rabbit-tra ... ment-11869

I would say, please teach your children about fakery without shame or timidity or hesitation. You may be the first place they will hear about it, but certainly not the last. My advice is to always use humor and keep it apart from religious topics. If you are on this site, I have no doubt your children may be quite intelligent indeed.

Please, stop the hesitation and fear. Take advantage of the fact that children think themselves quasi-immortal and want to be powerful. Give that power to them. Please, for the sake of the future!
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby nonhocapito on June 27th, 2016, 11:12 am

hoi.polloi wrote:Please, stop the hesitation and fear. Take advantage of the fact that children think themselves quasi-immortal and want to be powerful. Give that power to them. Please, for the sake of the future!


you are certainly right, but here's what the average goy parent in the western world fears, not without reason:

child: "my father said we shouldn't take the holocaust too seriously!"
teacher: "well, your father is an anti-semite and a holocaust denier, and should be reported".

or any variations of that, bringing all sorts of different degrees of trauma to a family. You don't think a teacher facing a situation like this would live it alone, do you?
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby brianv on June 27th, 2016, 12:27 pm

I have told my son just to get on with his studies and pay particular attention to the core subjects. I have explained that all is not what it seems with the world, and will explain further as he gets older, as a result he's already on board and asking the right questions. My daughter will get exactly the same. Holocaust schmolocaust!

Oh just one other thing, Tell-Lie-Vision is discouraged!
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby Kham on June 27th, 2016, 11:11 pm

I would say, please teach your children about fakery without shame or timidity or hesitation.


Well said Hoi, and look, Lenon Honor agrees with you!

Lenon Honor at the Free Your Mind 3 Conference.
How to Create Sovereign Children – Lenon Honor, September 2015


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlrkcSoabX0

Lenon breaks down how to keep children’s minds free of manipulation. At the end of the video around 1:15:00 Lenon goes over 10 tips on keeping the minds of children free, which includes learning about media manipulation.

1. Screen media content in advance of your children seeing it.
2. Have intelligent age appropriate conversations about media manipulation.
3. Develop within your child adequate intellectual process.
4. Always answer your children’s questions.
5. Allow children access to alternative information that is empowering.
6. Engage in activities that engage self-esteem so your children won’t look outside of themselves for validation.
7. Provide your children with music that has positive messages and positive images.
8. Supervise your children’s media exposure.
9. Have intelligent conversations with your children about the differences between appropriate and inappropriate media.
10. Answer age appropriate questions that children have about sex prior to media exposure.

Great advice, I totally agree on all counts.
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby Seneca on June 27th, 2016, 11:39 pm

This is a very important topic. I tried to launch a similar topic 2 years ago : viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1716

To the advice I would add the following (maybe this is obvious)

-I have never lied to my children. (This doesn't include games and things like Santa Claus, but I also tried to be honest about that.)
-If I don't know something I will tell them so.
-If I answer a question I also try to tell why I believe this
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby Flabbergasted on June 28th, 2016, 4:43 am

Seneca wrote:This is a very important topic.

I like this topic too and hope to chip in along the way.

My parents and grandparents were as little philosophical as they come, so I wasn´t exactly showered with insights, precious advice and admonitions in my childhood. The funny thing is that the three or four sayings and quotes they did use stuck to my memory like superglue!

My mother liked this trick question: "what are the two things a child needs the most?"
Usually people would suggest a number of essential things, such as "love", "protection", "education", "cuddling", "nourishment", "attention", etc.

However, the "right" answer was: a good example and a good explanation.

The first is obviously all-encompassing (and impossible to feign) so no comment is necessary. The second eventually enables children to think for themselves, guided by common sense, to become truly autonomous adults.

Good raw material for anything constructive!
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby hoi.polloi on June 28th, 2016, 4:54 pm

child: "my father said we shouldn't take the holocaust too seriously!"
teacher: "well, your father is an anti-semite and a holocaust denier, and should be reported".


Right, but real life often doesn't sound like Pinocchio. Usually a child doesn't start a sentence among judgemental peers with, "My mommy and daddy told me to ..." and they learn pretty quick not to do that anyway.

For better or worse, children are pressured into independent stances very quickly in America, and if not by the system by hyper-competitive peers who are also, ironically, encouraged by the system to co-educate each other. This forms a complex microcosm of society in school situations. Gangs, cliques, disinformation, mind games, the students all do it to each other quite early. They also know that arguments have to be made from their own (if fragile) selves, even while they spend their first ten years or so merely echoing what others say in order to test it.

But when they pick "friends", you can often find children emotionally inseparable. Give them strong adult language (I don't mean harsh or aggressive, but like the strong stances we would give any skeptic) about questioning things, and the situation shouldn't be too big of an issue. When allied children were quietly discussing and sharing with each other the fakery of nuclear explosion animations in the middle of my elementary school class, for example, the teacher ignored this entirely because they just wanted to get through the lesson plan. In fact, teachers often played a back seat to the much more trustworthy discussions between peers, be it because of agism or doubt in authority or whatever. Students feel victimized and vulnerable in classrooms. When a teacher compromises their own trustworthiness in the eyes of the students, it can send a classroom into a rapid downward spiral.

I think the goal is to make sure the new generations are able to "pick their battles" more wisely. Funnily enough, we're helping each other somewhat develop the language right here on this forum. (Though it should be modified to fit any given community/readership/situation.)

It's true, however, that while teachers often don't like or want conflict anywhere near them, parents and teachers can often butt heads on things. So you are getting at more of an adult issue about children and how to care for them.
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby nonhocapito on June 28th, 2016, 9:57 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:
child: "my father said we shouldn't take the holocaust too seriously!"
teacher: "well, your father is an anti-semite and a holocaust denier, and should be reported".


Right, but real life often doesn't sound like Pinocchio. Usually a child doesn't start a sentence among judgemental peers with, "My mommy and daddy told me to ..." and they learn pretty quick not to do that anyway.

For better or worse, children are pressured into independent stances very quickly in America, and if not by the system by hyper-competitive peers who are also, ironically, encouraged by the system to co-educate each other. This forms a complex microcosm of society in school situations. Gangs, cliques, disinformation, mind games, the students all do it to each other quite early. They also know that arguments have to be made from their own (if fragile) selves, even while they spend their first ten years or so merely echoing what others say in order to test it.

But when they pick "friends", you can often find children emotionally inseparable. Give them strong adult language (I don't mean harsh or aggressive, but like the strong stances we would give any skeptic) about questioning things, and the situation shouldn't be too big of an issue. When allied children were quietly discussing and sharing with each other the fakery of nuclear explosion animations in the middle of my elementary school class, for example, the teacher ignored this entirely because they just wanted to get through the lesson plan. In fact, teachers often played a back seat to the much more trustworthy discussions between peers, be it because of agism or doubt in authority or whatever. Students feel victimized and vulnerable in classrooms. When a teacher compromises their own trustworthiness in the eyes of the students, it can send a classroom into a rapid downward spiral.

I think the goal is to make sure the new generations are able to "pick their battles" more wisely. Funnily enough, we're helping each other somewhat develop the language right here on this forum. (Though it should be modified to fit any given community/readership/situation.)

It's true, however, that while teachers often don't like or want conflict anywhere near them, parents and teachers can often butt heads on things. So you are getting at more of an adult issue about children and how to care for them.


I love how you managed not to mention the holocaust at all. Anyway

1) I was not thinking about nor talking about America in particular. If anything I am thinking about Europe where the grip on "holocaust deniers" is very tight and stands as an example of how schools can and will impose thought policies, for which the holocaust represents a model but by no means the only application.
Maybe other issues are seen with a more soft eye, but I suspect that in the future deviations from the 9/11 official doctrine will also not be tolerated. For one teacher who appreciates a thoughtful or honest question or statement for what it is, there's a hundred who love the sound of their voices when they seem to express bold ideas, and get even more aroused if they glimpse the possibility of getting some credit for putting dangerous elements in line.

2) the example I gave has nothing to do with Pinocchio. You don't seem to actually have an idea of how non-hypocrite children behave, or perhaps you are focusing too much on teenagers. My example reflects what a spontaneous, innocent, unaware child in elementary school might do in class when he hears things which contradict things he heard at home.

Both my parents were very politically-minded and I remember doing this a lot as a child, under their influence. I am not saying their influence was good or bad: only that I carried this energy from home to school. And I was not the only one, since my school collected children from working class areas of Milan which in those years were highly politicized. The wildest ideas were often repeated by the unaware kids.

This is a real experience I had in elementary school:

teacher (asking a rhetorical question after a speech about some terrorist event (perhaps the Moro case?), or maybe even doing actual snooping work for the man): "Is anyone here in favor of the Red Brigades?"
Maybe because of my contradictory nature, and because of an onset of confusion as to why the RB weren't described in such terrible colors at home, I raise my hand, in the conviction that after all my parents must be supporters of them, since they don't seem to hate them so much.
Follows a brief exchange, which I honestly don't remember, between an incredulous teacher and yours truly. It might have gone a bit like this:

"so, uhm, your parents are for the red brigades?"
"yes."
"don't they think this is a bad thing?"
"no because they're communists."
"are they red brigades?"
"uhm, I don't think so"
etc.

OK, so maybe my parents' influence was not very good. Regardless, this will happen when children experience such radically different points of views between home and school. Later that day I told the story to my mum and all she said was something like: "hm, that wasn't a good idea". (My parents were barely "guevarists", not red brigades, but the so called "strategy of tension" was in place and periodical ransacking by the police was not an uncommon experience.)

The point being: if the suggestion is to raise children as hypocrites, deceivers or liars, then we have no parenting problem here. If however you want your children to grow up without the taint of "doublethink" clouding their moral and critical intelligence, all sorts of problems can arise, as exemplified above. My parents were very confused themselves, I guess, but never even remotely suggested that their/my ideas should be diluted or, like you suggest, hidden. I don't think there were any real consequences to that event, but would it go the same way today? On issues that the official propaganda feels very strongly about? I doubt it.

I feel this is a catch-22 for which I have no special recipe. Perhaps that good movie, "Running on Empty", asked similar questions somewhat, but certainly didn't answer them.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDvqRVhQ9UU
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby CitronBleu on June 28th, 2016, 11:08 pm

I've noticed a strong denial of official theories in my classrooms (I live in a large metropolis on the east coast of the United States).

I allow down time for students to discuss whatever they want. In one class, I would say 80% of the students openly reject the official version of the September 11 attacks, or the NASA fairy tales.

I cannot openly support non-mainstream opinions, but I do make clear I am open to discussing any topic, within the framework of reason.
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Re: Parenting In the Simulation Age

Postby Flabbergasted on June 29th, 2016, 12:13 am

nonhocapito wrote:[...] here's what the average goy parent in the western world fears, not without reason:

child: "my father said we shouldn't take the holocaust too seriously!"
teacher: "well, your father is an anti-semite and a holocaust denier, and should be reported".

I make it clear to my children (or anyone else who shows interest in revising history) that rejecting the tenets of holocaustianism/exterminationism at school or at social gatherings is very likely to elicit aggressive reactions (at least mockery) and will brand the child as "neonazi" or "antisemitic" for all time. It is no small social disaster for a child to be ridiculed and ostracized like that.

I only advise people to speak out against holocaustianism in public if they have a substantial arsenal of scientific and historical facts to enter the skirmish with and if they can manage animosity with unshakable equanimity. Believe me, it´s not a game for children and adolescents.
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