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Postby hoi.polloi on May 14th, 2017, 4:56 pm

patrix, with truly all due respect, I think it is critical that the human race begins to develop a "defense" against the most obvious signs of fakery and forgery, and if you would recommend our site to others (though I know many are reticent to do so for various personal reasons) you should demonstrate an understanding of our research. Please do work on your basic abilities to detect fakery, CGI, compositing and signs of doctoring. It is integral to the arguments of this forum. Please educate yourself on the differences between the excuse of "compression error" and the simple logical problems with the "physics" of the CGI shown on 9/11.

I appreciate your humble stance, but definitely take up our invitation to no longer remain helpless to manipulative imagery. You don't have to be an expert. Just use your brain. On our site, you not only have permission. You are encouraged to doubt video and imagery and help everyone come to understandings about what is or is not a raw unedited/untampered image. And to at least know about, if not understand, the many ways that imagery is tampered with today.

A great place to start is to watch some Hollywood "behind the scenes" featurettes, found on many DVDs or even all over YouTube, which compare a production's pre-modified footage to the final format. If you see just these enough, you can begin to see blatant and obvious signs of the seams and glue, where it isn't already apparent.
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Postby Flabbergasted on May 18th, 2017, 5:27 pm

Over the last couple of decades a story about a monstrously large “Pre-Columbian” Chinese fleet has surfaced in the Western media, giving rise to the so-called “Zheng He fever”.

It’s strange that such an impressive military and technical accomplishment could have remained ignored for centuries. It also begs the question of how long it took China to reach the pinnacle of naval engineering which they paraded along the shores of the Indian Ocean in the 1400s. Their 140-m long 9-masted super junks seem to have materialized out of the blue. Manned by 28,000 men, the fleet is said to have consisted of approximately 300 ships, 62 of which were king-size. Large vessels were equipped with sophisticated balanced rudders and water-tight bulkheads. Some people have expressed doubts the ships ever existed (a 140-m framework without iron is hard to picture), but in 1962 a rudder post measuring 11 m was found in the original shipyard. By reverse calculation, the respective hull would have been an estimated 152 m long.

Chinese super junk compared to Columbus' Niña:
Source of picture and information: “1001 Inventions: the enduring legacy of the Muslim civilization”, p. 254-7.

One wonders how all this relates to China’s propaganda efforts to conjure up the image of a super power, past and present. I am not dismissing the story (allegedly backed up by Zheng He’s own writings and the existence of artifacts in museums), and I do suspect seafaring was much more common in the distant past than most historians are willing to concede, but the whole thing appears to be cluttered with fiction and politics.

For the record:

A boy by the name Ma He was born in Kunming, Mongolia, to Muslim parents. His father and grandfather took him on pilgrimages to Mecca during which he perfected his Arabic and Chinese language skills. When his town was invaded by the Ming dynasty, Ma He was taken prisoner and made a eunuch. He became a servant in the imperial household of Duke Yan (Zhu Di) who later seized the throne and became the Emperor Yong Le.

The boy was very gifted and grew up (according to some accounts, over 2 m tall) to become a successful military commander and the emperor’s closest advisor. He received several high honors, was allowed to use the surname Zheng (hence, Zheng He), and was eventually given command of the Chinese imperial fleet.

Over a period of 28 years and assisted by other eunuch leaders (including Hou Hsien and Wang Ching-Hung), Zheng He conducted seven expeditions, some of which required the fleet to split in two: 1) Champa, Java, Sumatra, Ceylon and Calcutta (1405-1407), 2) Siam, India and Cochin (1407-1409), 3) East Indies and Quilon (1409-1411), 4) East Indies, Bengal, Maldives and Hormuz (1413-1415), 5) Java, Ryukyu, Brunei, Hormuz, Aden, Mogadishu and Mombasa (1416-1419), 6) 36 states between Borneo and Zanzibar (1421-1422), and 7) 20 realms and sultanates from Java to Mecca to East Africa, possibly rounding the Cape (1431-1433). There is no record of a voyage to America, as claimed by historical novelist Gavin Menzies.

Map of expeditions:
Source: ... 2/map.html

As the story goes, the expeditions were not motivated by greed, but by scientific discovery, trade (gems, minerals, plants, exotic animals, drugs, medicine), the wish to improve navigational and cartographical knowledge, and the desire to make “the transforming power of the imperial virtue” known to all nations.

Zheng He apparently died in India in 1433, on his way back to China. At the time, Confucian philosophy was enjoying a comeback. The internationalist outlook which characterized early 15th century China was replaced by a more isolationist mindset, and seagoing trade was eventually banned. In 1625, the Chinese emperor ordered the destruction of all oceangoing ships. If true, this change in Chinese government policy was everything the European explorers could have wished for.

Lecture by Adam Smith:
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Postby hoi.polloi on May 18th, 2017, 8:55 pm

Interesting concept. It does make one wonder.

My question has often been about the subject of the apparently ancient Great Wall of China. My early impressions as a very young child, as stupid as this may sound, were that the Great Wall had been largely constructed off and on throughout the 1900's and 1950's — at the same time that I was holding in my head the idea that this wall was somehow holding off great hordes of invading armies from the West, from "BCE" times. Was the wall left incomplete for many centuries? Has it always been under construction? I am totally laughably ignorant about the subject, even though I am sure I have heard contradicting facts. Having never been to China to see the wall, my present expectation is that one would encounter miles and miles of truly ancient wall, with portions under construction and looking newer and/or "restored". Does someone on the forum know more?

Today, it is absurd to people to suggest that the "unearthed terracotta army" was but an artistic creation in the most recent centuries. Yet, my mind does wander toward hoaxy possibilities when we are told to believe certain speculations about the past are to be held in higher esteem than others.

If we are to learn about the propaganda of our own world, we should certainly study those who have had mastery of propaganda for thousands of years: China!
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Postby antipodean on May 19th, 2017, 8:20 am

Having visited both.
The part of the wall I visited was the closest part to Beijing it was basically a day trip there and back. It had obviously been reinforced and fixed up. You could just walk along it.
It's possible it could have been fixed up to match the myth, to attract the tourists once China had relaxed restrictions on western tourists.

The Terracotta army did look real to me as in according to the myth.

But the most amazing man made monument I saw in China was 'Big Buddha'

full link:
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Postby patrix on May 19th, 2017, 9:40 am

@Hoi: Regarding your previous post, yes you’re right, I need to hone my skills at detecting fakery, but I find it hard. If someone, like the researchers here at Cluesforum points it out I’m able to see it, but otherwise not. I guess we all have different skill sets. And it was a bit too naive of me to even suspect there is a 9/11 video you haven’t analysed yet.

So, on the same subject, I found some very clear footage showing the “Car attack” on Times Square today. I’m unable to see it’s fake but of course I’m suspecting it is.
Thought: Are these “attacks” priming for stricter vehicle control maybe? ... ard-rojas/
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Postby brianv on May 19th, 2017, 3:57 pm

^ Richard Rojas = Dick Red or Red Dick :rolleyes:

Are these “attacks” priming for stricter vehicle control maybe?

No, it's to sell newspapers and keep clowns watching "t.v. news".
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Postby bongostaple on May 20th, 2017, 6:06 pm

The deliberate errors and inconsistencies make sure the 'conspiracy' folks start posting about every event as soon as possible. The believing masses will therefore repeatedly and almost simultaneously, feel revulsion at 'terrorist attacks' and at the 'tin foil hat brigade' too, for being disrespectful. They will eventually get fatigued to the point that they will assume all 'conspiracy' theories are from whack-jobs with no respect for the dead.

I'd worked out the outcome of the above a long time ago, but it only just occurred to me now about the errors being deliberate. It's to minimise the time from event to conspiracy theory appearing on the internet, with the aim of maximising the public distaste with 'whack-jobs', again and again and again. It's a 2-layer system of DBA.
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