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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby daozen on March 13th, 2012, 6:34 pm

lux wrote:
hoi.polloi wrote:Why is there a slew of users on our forum suddenly - seemingly at the same time - expressing "doubt" that obvious long-time paid shills are actually shills at all?


Exactly the question that occurred to me too. All of a sudden it's starting to smell like Infowars.com around here.

Must something in the air. :lol:


Listen dudes, I can only speak for my self, it's my first time in this section of the forum. I'm not really interested in this stuff, actually nonho told me to come here so take it out on him, lol. :P
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby hoi.polloi on March 13th, 2012, 6:40 pm

Okay, look daozen. You may not believe us, but just keep the possibility in mind the next time you see Jesse and AJ interview someone with a seemingly credible, interesting story. How does the story reflect on them? Do they get to insert any of their belief system into the dazed interviewee or the listeners? Do they mention things of relevance? Does he seem like a good interviewer or is he just an ego boost to them? Do any real discoveries appear or is everything a pre-determined thematic fake "reality TV" show?

Regardless of whether some truth is contained in their shows, they are set up like a propaganda feed and do not encourage critical thinking.
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby daozen on March 13th, 2012, 6:46 pm

lux wrote:
daozen wrote:
If you are being sarcastic that's a fallacy no?


It's not a fallacy that I'm being sarcastic.


Do I really need to explain...

If you are being sarcastic, then you are saying that just because he has had multiple careers it means he is a shill. That is a fallacy.

...and even if he's odd it doesn't prove anything.


It proves you just contradicted yourself regarding your feeling that he is/isn't odd.


Do I really need to explain...

Sure, if you want to play with words it proves that. I thought it was clear I was talking about proving anything IN REGARDS TO HIM BEING A SHILL OR NOT. I only latter realized you had taken my words out of context.

...and you are taking my "I find nothing odd in him" highly out of context!


OK, here is the entire context of your statement:

daozen wrote:I highly doubt jesse ventura is a shill at all. He did not become a celebrity for his intelligence so I find nothing odd in him and the show believing in planes and vicsims; average response. I think of all the people I have mentioned cgi planes in real life, and no one has not thought I am not literally going nuts.


It still looks to me like you're saying that you find nothing odd about Jesse Ventura.


haha, do I really need to explain...

"you find nothing odd about Jesse Ventura" would refer to oddity in his person.

"I find nothing odd in him and the show believing in planes and vicsims; average response."
clearly refers to HIS BELIEF AND RESPONSE IN PLANES AND VICSIMS.

man! please read others' statements carefully...
Last edited by daozen on March 13th, 2012, 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby daozen on March 13th, 2012, 6:58 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:Okay, look daozen. You may not believe us, but just keep the possibility in mind the next time you see Jesse and AJ interview someone with a seemingly credible, interesting story. How does the story reflect on them? Do they get to insert any of their belief system into the dazed interviewee or the listeners? Do they mention things of relevance? Does he seem like a good interviewer or is he just an ego boost to them? Do any real discoveries appear or is everything a pre-determined thematic fake "reality TV" show?

Regardless of whether some truth is contained in their shows, they are set up like a propaganda feed and do not encourage critical thinking.


First off, I am open to absolutely anything and I don't care either way.

There's no need to keep the possibility in mind next time I see a video... There's tons of archived videos on youtube, etc so you should be able to point out what I think you want me to look for with the questions you are putting here.

It's not that I don't "believe" you. Belief is the wrong way to go. I need evidence and/or a logical hypothesis for any hunch.

I've seen several videos of both these people and I don't think they are propaganda, or not purposefuly anyway like I've said. I remember Jesse Ventura saying in several interviews when asked in his interviews if the govmt was involved in 9/11 "I don't know, but why aren't we allowed to ask questions" or something like that. I think that encourages critical thinking and to say they never do is a broad generalization, imo. I would also like to know why you say they are set up like a propaganda feed?
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby nonhocapito on March 13th, 2012, 7:07 pm

daozen wrote:Listen dudes, I can only speak for my self, it's my first time in this section of the forum. I'm not really interested in this stuff, actually nonho told me to come here so take it out on him, lol. :P


:angry:

If you are not really interested in this stuff, why are you even here? Why are you wasting our time?

Sorry but I cannot really appreciate your joke about me telling you to be here.
I have told you to refer to this part of the board if you want to know more about these characters. If all you care about is to express lame and useless opinions in favor of these shills, while stating that you don't care either way, the whole cluesforum probably isn't the right place for you. You don't seem to have the right attitude, honestly. You are supposed to either contribute good research or at least good criticism. Saying that "you don't find anything odd" about something is not what we need.
If you "don't get" what is wrong about these agents of disinfo, read more. If you care, try to understand more. Contribute when you have something to contribute. Stop Trolling.
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby lux on March 13th, 2012, 7:23 pm

daozen wrote:
If you are being sarcastic, then you are saying that just because he has had multiple careers it means he is a shill. That is a fallacy.


You're missing the point by a mile. It is not the fact of "multiple careers." It is the type of careers and his obvious connections are a result of those careers.


Sure, if you want to play with words it proves that.


It's not 'playing with words' -- it's simply reading the words which you wrote. Words have meanings associated with them.

haha, do I really need to explain...


Only if you wish to be taken seriously.

"I find nothing odd in him and the show believing in planes and vicsims; average response."
clearly refers to HIS BELIEF AND RESPONSE IN PLANES AND VICSIMS.


Are you now trying to say that it is not odd for Ventura to believe what he believes because it is a common belief amongst average people?

man! please read others' statements carefully...


You're not making it very easy. Please write in intelligible English what you mean to say.
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby daozen on March 13th, 2012, 7:30 pm

nonhocapito wrote:
daozen wrote:Listen dudes, I can only speak for my self, it's my first time in this section of the forum. I'm not really interested in this stuff, actually nonho told me to come here so take it out on him, lol. :P


:angry:

If you are not really interested in this stuff, why are you even here? Why are you wasting our time?

Sorry but I cannot really appreciate your joke about me telling you to be here.
I have told you to refer to this part of the board if you want to know more about these characters. If all you care about is to express lame and useless opinions in favor of these shills, while stating that you don't care either way, the whole cluesforum probably isn't the right place for you. You don't seem to have the right attitude, honestly. You are supposed to either contribute good research or at least good criticism. Saying that "you don't find anything odd" about something is not what we need.
If you "don't get" what is wrong about these agents of disinfo, read more. If you care, try to understand more. Contribute when you have something to contribute. Stop Trolling.


No need to get :angry:

What I meant with "im not interested in this stuff" is as to why I haven't come here on my own before, but if I posted it's obviously because I'm interested. I'm interested in discussing the reasons behind these shill accusations because I have a diferrent opinion and like I've repeadetily stated "I don't care either way" Im open to anything, but I want to find out about the facts and evidence.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I don't appreciate you calling my posts "lame and useless opinions in favor of these shills". You can call me a troll but I'm honestly just here to try to understand.

"the whole cluesforum probably isn't the right place for you. You don't seem to have the right attitude, honestly. You are supposed to either contribute good research or at least good criticism. Saying that "you don't find anything odd" about something is not what we need."

Can't I just state my opinion? If it's clear these people are shills why not just point out the why's and evidence without all of this hostility to opposing views?
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby HonestlyNow on March 13th, 2012, 7:51 pm

daozen wrote: I think of all the people I have mentioned cgi planes in real life, and no one has not thought I am not literally going nuts.


Many, of not most, people do not have the knowledge and mindset to grasp the idea. They have a mental block for anything that doesn't fit the way things "should" be. Taking a look at many of the introductions on this forum, you see that members have been searching for answers about how the world works for years, and come to find this forum to be a breath of fresh air. However, when we're talking about persons who are in high political positions, one would expect (or at least I expect) that they have access to certain knowledge, including the knowledge that 9/11 and other "events" are hoaxes, and that this is all a game of illusions.
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby nonhocapito on March 13th, 2012, 7:57 pm

daozen wrote:Can't I just state my opinion? If it's clear these people are shills why not just point out the why's and evidence without all of this hostility to opposing views?


The evidence is everywhere. I suggested to you this area yesterday -- and after one day you decided to come up with this lame (and I repeat it: lame) statement?

Have you read all the threads and followed all the links and tried researching the issue in the meantime? If you had, you'd have something more interesting and useful for us to say than "I don't find anything odd".

There is nothing odd in Ventura having a military background? In his links to Hollywood? In his association with Alex Jones? In his censoring media fakery just like all the other "truthers"? In defending the idea that people died in the towers and planes were flown into them?

Like HonestlyNow says: can you believe, can you consider honest, the complete silence about media fakery coming from someone knowledgeable of Hollywood, and thus clearly informed of how the world of the media, the grand illusion works?

You need to familiarize yourself with the research and the story of this forum to understand why all these are not good things. How can we summarize it all for you, when all you have to say is simply "I don't find anything odd"? You have received a lot of pointers to put you on the right track. But people have lives, you know.

Sorry for the harshness. You can state your opinion. And so you did. But it wasn't a very insightful one, not even as criticism.
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby daozen on March 13th, 2012, 7:59 pm

lux wrote:
daozen wrote:
If you are being sarcastic, then you are saying that just because he has had multiple careers it means he is a shill. That is a fallacy.


You're missing the point by a mile. It is not the fact of "multiple careers." It is the type of careers and his obvious connections are a result of those careers.



ok, but his "obvious connections" are not obvious to me, can you explain them further? how they make him a shill?

Sure, if you want to play with words it proves that.


It's not 'playing with words' -- it's simply reading the words which you wrote. Words have meanings associated with them.


ok, fine, but I was refering to him being a shill or not (which is the point of this thread) so I dont see why you go off into that tangent?

"I find nothing odd in him and the show believing in planes and vicsims; average response."
clearly refers to HIS BELIEF AND RESPONSE IN PLANES AND VICSIMS.


Are you now trying to say that it is not odd for Ventura to believe what he believes because it is a common belief amongst average people?


Yeah, pretty much, what's wrong with that?

man! please read others' statements carefully...


You're not making it very easy. Please write in intelligible English what you mean to say.


What have I not written in intelligible english?
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby daozen on March 13th, 2012, 8:04 pm

HonestlyNow wrote:
daozen wrote: I think of all the people I have mentioned cgi planes in real life, and no one has not thought I am not literally going nuts.

However, when we're talking about persons who are in high political positions, one would expect (or at least I expect) that they have access to certain knowledge, including the knowledge that 9/11 and other "events" are hoaxes, and that this is all a game of illusions.


Maybe, however we can only guess about that. On the other hand, I think the perps would try to make the list of the people in the know as small as possible.
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby daozen on March 13th, 2012, 8:12 pm

nonhocapito wrote:
daozen wrote:Can't I just state my opinion? If it's clear these people are shills why not just point out the why's and evidence without all of this hostility to opposing views?


The evidence is everywhere. I suggested to you this area yesterday -- and after one day you decided to come up with this lame (and I repeat it: lame) statement?

Have you read all the threads and followed all the links and tried researching the issue in the meantime? If you had, you'd have something more interesting and useful for us to say than "I don't find anything odd".

There is nothing odd in Ventura having a military background? In his links to Hollywood? In his association with Alex Jones? In his censoring media fakery just like all the other "truthers"? In defending the idea that people died in the towers and planes were flown into them?

Like HonestlyNow says: can you believe, can you consider honest, the complete silence about media fakery coming from someone knowledgeable of Hollywood, and thus clearly informed of how the world of the media, the grand illusion works?

You need to familiarize yourself with the research and the story of this forum to understand why all these are not good things. How can we summarize it all for you, when all you have to say is simply "I don't find anything odd"? You have received a lot of pointers to put you on the right track. But people have lives, you know.

Sorry for the harshness. You can state your opinion. And so you did. But it wasn't a very insightful one, not even as criticism.


Ok, but my "lame" statement, lol (I would really like to know which one that is) is the opinion I formed on this particular thread which at the time I posted it was 2 pages long, so why is it odd that I posted after 1 day. Unfortunately there's nothing elaborate on this thread about his "military background? In his links to Hollywood? In his association with Alex Jones? In his censoring media fakery just like all the other "truthers"? In defending the idea that people died in the towers and planes were flown into them?"
I would love to read more.

One last thing, can you point out the most significant threads with the information you talk about on this forum section? thanks nonho! I appreciate your patience ;)
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby nonhocapito on March 13th, 2012, 8:45 pm

daozen wrote:Ok, but my "lame" statement, lol (I would really like to know which one that is)


"I don't see anything odd about Ventura". Lame.

daozen wrote:I would love to read more... unfortunately there's nothing elaborate...


We are not a public service you are paying for. This is a forum made by the contributions of voluntary researchers. They leave clues for you to pick up, they do not write a to z books for you to read. Do your own research. Connect your own dots. And when I say "the evidence is everywhere" I don't mean necessarily this part of the forum. It is everywhere in the story of the so called "truth" movement. This area gives you an idea of certain possible topics. A few links. It is evident that this is a very secondary part of our research and as such it is not comprehensive or even remotely exhaustive. For instance I have been hoping someone would do some real background research on Alex Jones, separating the very little certainties by the bulk of the aleatory, forged information. But why haven't I done it myself? Apparently, and luckily, there are more urgent or interesting matters at hand...
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby lux on March 13th, 2012, 8:52 pm

daozen wrote:ok, but his "obvious connections" are not obvious to me, can you explain them further? how they make him a shill?


Let me say it again: "... he's just your basic navy seal turned professional wrestler turned actor turned governor turned Alex Jones buddy turned TV personality."

So, you don't see that having a resumé which includes being a part of US military special forces, Hollywood feature films and television and a term as a state governor implies any questionable connections?

What on Earth are you doing on this forum?
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Re: Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura - 9/11

Postby daozen on March 14th, 2012, 2:28 am

nonhocapito wrote:
daozen wrote:Ok, but my "lame" statement, lol (I would really like to know which one that is)


"I don't see anything odd about Ventura". Lame.



I DID NOT SAY THAT... <_< Lux took it out of context as I have already clarified in detail. Fortunately HonestlyNow got what I was really saying.

daozen wrote:I would love to read more... unfortunately there's nothing elaborate...


We are not a public service you are paying for. This is a forum made by the contributions of voluntary researchers. They leave clues for you to pick up, they do not write a to z books for you to read. Do your own research. Connect your own dots. And when I say "the evidence is everywhere" I don't mean necessarily this part of the forum. It is everywhere in the story of the so called "truth" movement. This area gives you an idea of certain possible topics. A few links. It is evident that this is a very secondary part of our research and as such it is not comprehensive or even remotely exhaustive. For instance I have been hoping someone would do some real background research on Alex Jones, separating the very little certainties by the bulk of the aleatory, forged information. But why haven't I done it myself? Apparently, and luckily, there are more urgent or interesting matters at hand...[/quote]

I have not implied anyone is public service or "the social servie" ;) I was only asking if you could recommend a couple threads within this forum, nothing else. Of course I can and should do it myself aswell. As you say, this subject is a secondary part of "our research", I understand that, which is why I was surprised to be somehow attacked (i wish i knew of a word that's less intense than that) with my polite but opposing opinion on these "obvious shills", should not be this way imo.

Anyway, let's not drag this any longer, I will keep the research up and/or hopefully someone will appear with some evidence to back or dismiss these shill accusations, ok. :)
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