How to have conversation w/someone who says they saw a plane

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How to have conversation w/someone who says they saw a plane

Postby anonjedi2 on March 8th, 2013, 3:05 am

I'm posting this for some advice on how to have a conversation with someone who claims to have seen an airplane hit the WTC Tower. I am 100% confident in my position that there was no Boeing aircraft that smashed into the tower. I am probably still 5-10% open to the idea that a missle or small craft may have been used (disguised as a plane) but that window is closing quickly. I think the Hologram theory is ridiculous.

When approaching someone who says they saw or they know somebody who saw a plane, I want to learn how to question that person for information without giving away the fact that I think they are most likely lying or under some psychological spell and insulting them in the process. I have had opportunities in the past and would always bite my tongue because I was still undecided. I currently will ocassionally run into someone online or in person that says they know someone who "saw". Can you guys suggest some guidelines or suggestions on what sort of questions to ask and how to go about having this conversation in terms of tone, style, investigative angle, etc? Hoi, I listened to your "Carlos Montoya" interview which I thought was excellent. Your approach was calm, yet inquisitive without being too aggressive. What are some good questions to ask an individual in this situation? I would obviously want to know:

1) Where were you (exact location if possible)?

2) What did you see (details)?

3) What did you hear? (details, size, color, trajectory, etc)

4) Anyone with you?

The idea would obviously be to expose someone in a lie but that doesn't seem very likely or easy to do, and without coming out and saying "I don't believe you, I think you're lying", where can the conversation go? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: How to have a convo w/someone who says they saw an airpl

Postby edgewaters on March 8th, 2013, 3:48 am

anonjedi2 wrote:The idea would obviously be to expose someone in a lie but that doesn't seem very likely or easy to do, and without coming out and saying "I don't believe you, I think you're lying"


Well I guess in some scenarios, if you have the presence of mind, you could always say you're documenting eyewitness testimonies to this historic event. Which is both plausible and true, and gives you an excuse to ask very detailed questions (what time was it exactly, were you wearing a watch, what did you hear, in what sequence did you hear it, who were you with, did you speak to anyone, what was said, how many other people were around, etc)

I had the experience once of being interrogated by the Special Investigations Unit, which investigates the police (I was only a witness). These guys interrogate police who know the interrogation process. What they seem to do is ask a lot of questions they know that you don't recall or don't know the answer to, questions about minor details no one would think to invent (or, as a witness, take notice of during the event); there's some trick of psychology at work, because after a few dozen of these questions you can't answer, you start being very uncertain of yourself, even if, as was the case here, you have no real interest in the matter and no reason to tell anything but exactly what you saw in truth. Even in such a situation you start feeling on very shaky ground; I can only imagine how impossible it would be for an ordinary person to keep up a lie under such circumstances.
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Re: How to have a convo w/someone who says they saw an airpl

Postby hoi.polloi on March 8th, 2013, 4:00 am

First of all, despite the 'Loris Centola' guy going through (I presume for their own curiosity about the power of their liars), my recommendation would be to not deal with Internet personalities or Internet anything. See them face to face. The Internet is too easily populated with trolls and shills, as you have seen. If you run into someone on the Internet claiming something, ignore them.

If you want to learn about how your community is infested with "grass" agents, you'll have to explore it in your community. And unfortunately only you would know what is or isn't fishy. Reporting it on the Internet won't do much good because you could easily resemble any other anonymous person and it only gives false credence to the Internet as a place for reliable reporting.

It's a very lone, very personal investigation to discover who and what is trustworthy in our world. You are not likely to figure it out by merely asking questions, and you are never going to pin down a trained storyteller or catch them in anything. It's their job to be aware of and monitor multiple contexts at once, including your layered questions, and it's their training to consistently "bump" the present discussion in the direction they want it to go, while pretending they are uncomfortable.

If you catch someone who isn't a trained liar, and try to convince them of something, good luck. Just think how well you respond to evangelists or religious folk of any persuasion. You might just upset them. In my opinion, the goal isn't to 'score interviews' and undo the lies that way - what an uphill climb! - but make it plainly obvious to all what has been faked so that people can do their own thinking. Some smarter people are capable of understanding what has been faked, but then they might want to take it in their own random direction. I mean you're dealing with people with all their stubborn silly amazing reasons for believing anything, not good hats and bad hats. The 'Loris' thing was a fluke.

Good luck out there!
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Re: How to have a convo w/someone who says they saw an airpl

Postby nonhocapito on March 8th, 2013, 5:05 am

Sorry if the observation is a bit inane, and I know this is in the living room: but can I recommend more intelligible titles for our threads? Not everyone is familiar with the word abbreviation "convo" and not all readers understand immediately what airplanes are being discussed here. Please always keep in mind the average uninformed reader that might stumble on this forum by accident.
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Re: How to have a convo w/someone who says they saw an airpl

Postby anonjedi2 on March 8th, 2013, 6:01 am

nonhocapito wrote:Sorry if the observation is a bit inane, and I know this is in the living room: but can I recommend more intelligible titles for our threads? Not everyone is familiar with the word abbreviation "convo" and not all readers understand immediately what airplanes are being discussed here. Please always keep in mind the average uninformed reader that might stumble on this forum by accident.


Will do. I had to abbreviate "convo" because I ran out of room, but noted nonetheless. Thanks.

And thanks for the suggestions everyone. I certainly don't bother with anonymous folks on the internet, but I will engage with "Friends of Friends" on Facebook for example. I got into it the other day with a gentleman whose mother worked for American Airlines and apparently she knew "Betty Ong" who allegedly made the phone call or was stabbed, I can't recall. In any case, this individual couldn't even wrap his mind around the possibility that the plane could have any number of stories other than slamming into the Tower. Even the idea of a diverted plane made no sense to him. I think sometimes it's just an impossible battle to fight and you have to sort of shrug it off with a laugh and maybe a graphic. Simon's good at that. :)
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Re: How to have a convo w/someone who says they saw an airpl

Postby hoi.polloi on March 8th, 2013, 3:06 pm

I certainly don't bother with anonymous folks on the internet, but I will engage with "Friends of Friends" on Facebook for example.


:(

Facebook isn't real.
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Re: How to have a convo w/someone who says they saw an airpl

Postby lux on March 8th, 2013, 3:39 pm

anonjedi2 wrote:... this individual couldn't even wrap his mind around the possibility that the plane could have any number of stories other than slamming into the Tower. Even the idea of a diverted plane made no sense to him. I think sometimes it's just an impossible battle to fight and you have to sort of shrug it off with a laugh and maybe a graphic. Simon's good at that. :)


"Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."
- Plato
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