"Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspiracy"

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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby pov603 on October 2nd, 2015, 9:41 am

You say '...to verify the quotes...' but to which ones in particular are you drawing our attention?
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby jumpy64 on October 2nd, 2015, 10:02 am

Since somebody asked, I've decided that now and them, whenever I find the time, I'll post other suggestions for Google searches.

Like this one: What zionist media say about gentiles (without quotations marks; from now on I'll put them only where really needed for more effective searching)

Or I can even link to documents, but only those written by influential people belonging to the ethnic group in question. I want to be fair and let them speak for themselves.

In fact, I just found a gem by Steven Steinlight, former National Affairs Director at the American Jewish Committee (AJC) writing here as Senior Policy Analyst at the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) in Washington, titled "The Jewish Stake in America's Changing Demography: Reconsidering a Misguided Immigration Policy". You can find it at http://cis.org/articles/2001/back1301.html

It's very interesting to read it all to understand a certain mindset, but just to prove my point to those who haven't enough time I'll suggest you make a search inside the text for the exact words divide and conquer. They're actually there! And you'll find them in a very telling context.

I could rest my case right there, but I'll probably give you more examples, as promised.
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby pov603 on October 2nd, 2015, 10:13 am

If that is your stance, you may as well have this quoted too:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/robert-hand/divide-conquer-the-model-was-irelands-1692-ulster-plantation/387496439352

'Divide & Conquer', the model was Ireland's, 1692, Ulster Plantation
20 April 2010 at 05:15
It is no surprise that the Israelis should be using the tactic of "divide and conquer", the cornerstone policy of an empire that dominated virtually every continent on the globe save South America. The Jewish population of British-controlled Palestine was, after all, victim to exactly the same kind of ethnic manipulation that the Israeli government is presently attempting in Northern Iraq.

Following the absorption of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, the British set about shoring up their rule by the tried and true strategy of pitting ethnic group against ethnic group, tribe against tribe, and religion against religion. When British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour issued his famous 1917 Declaration guaranteeing a "homeland" for the Jewish people in Palestine, he was less concerned with righting a two thousand year old wrong than creating divisions that would serve growing British interests in the Middle East.

Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem, certainly had no illusions about what a "Jewish homeland" in Palestine meant for the British Empire: "It will form for England," he said, "a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism." Storrs' analogy was no accident.

Ireland was where the English invented the tactic of divide and conquer, and where the devastating effectiveness of using foreign settlers to drive a wedge between the colonial rulers and the colonized made it a template for worldwide imperial rule.


Divide and Conquer Revisited
Former Israeli Prime Ministers Ariel Sharon and Menachem Begin normally take credit for creating the "facts on the ground" policies that have poured more than 420,000 settlers into the Occupied Territories.

But they were simply copying Charles I, the English King, who in 1609 forcibly removed the O'Neill and O'Donnell clans from the north of Ireland, moved in 20,000 English and Scottish Protestants, and founded the Plantation of Ulster.

The "removal" was never really meant to cleanse Ulster of the Irish. Native labor was essential to the Plantation's success and within 15 years more than 4,000 native Irish tenants and their families were back in Ulster. But they lived in a land divided into religious castes, with the Protestant invaders on top and the Catholic natives on the bottom.

Protestants were awarded the "Ulster privilege" which gave them special access to land and lower rents, and also served to divide them from the native Catholics. The "Ulster Privilege" is not dissimilar to the kind of "privilege" Israeli settlers enjoy in the Territories today, where their mortgages are cheap, their taxes lower and their education subsidized.

The Protestant privileges were a constant sore point with the native Irish; although in fact, most Protestants were little better off than their Catholic neighbors. Rents were uniformly onerous, regardless of religion.

Indeed, there were numerous cases where Protestants and Catholics united to protest exorbitant rents, but in virtually every case, the authorities successfully used religion and privilege to split such alliances. The Orange Order, the organization most responsible for sectarian politics in the North today, was originally formed in 1795 to break a Catholic-Protestant rent strike.


Ireland as Imperial Laboratory
The parallels between Israel and Ireland are almost eerie, unless one remembers that the latter was the laboratory for British colonialism.
As in Ulster, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories have special privileges that divide them from Palestinians (and other Israelis as well).
As in Ireland, Israeli settlers rely on the military to protect them from the "natives."
As in Northern Ireland, there are political organizations, like the National Religious Party and the Moledet Party, which whip up sectarian hatred, and keep the population divided.

The latter two parties both advocate the forcible transfer of all Arabs Palestinians and Israelis alike to Jordan and Egypt

Prior to the Ulster experiment, the English had tried any number of schemes to tame the restive Irish and build a wall between conquerors and conquered. One set of laws, the 1367 Statutes of Kilkenny, forbade "gossiping" with the natives. All of them failed. Then the English hit on the idea of using ethnicity, religion, and privilege to construct a society with built-in divisions.


It worked like a charm
The divisions were finally codified in the Penal Laws of 1692, divisions that still play themselves out in the streets of Belfast and Londonderry. Besides denying Catholics any civil rights (and removing those rights from Protestants who intermarried with them), the Laws blocked Catholics from signing contracts, becoming lawyers, or hiring more than two apprentices. In essence, they insured that Catholics would remain poor, powerless, and locked out of the modern world.

The laws were, in the words of the great English jurist Edmund Burke,

"A machine of wide and elaborate contrivance and as well fitted for the oppression, impoverishment and degradation of a people as ever proceeded from the perverted ingenuity of man."

Once the English hit on the tactic of using ethnic and religious differences to divide a population, the conquest of Ireland became a reality. Within 250 years, that formula would be transported to India, Africa, and the Middle East.

Sometimes populations were splintered by religions, as with Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in India. Sometimes societies were divided by tribes, as with the Ibos and Hausa in Nigeria. Sometimes, as in Ireland, foreign ethnic groups were imported and used as a buffer between the colonial authorities and the colonized. That is how large numbers of East Indians ended up in Kenya, South Africa, British Guyana, and Uganda.
South Africa's PM John Vorster is feted by Israel's PM Yitzhak Rabin and Menachem Begin and Moshe Dayan during his 1976 visit to Jerusalem
During WW2 the future South African PM John Vorster was interned as a Nazi sympathiser. Three decades later he was being feted in Jerusalem. http://tinyurl.com/92n89dSouth Africa's PM John Vorster is feted by Israel's PM Yitzhak Rabin and Menachem Begin and Moshe Dayan during his 1976 visit to Jerusalem During WW2 the future South African PM John Vorster was interned as a Nazi sympathiser. Three decades later he was being feted in Jerusalem. http://tinyurl.com/92n89d

It was "divide and conquer" that made it possible for an insignificant island in the north of Europe to rule the world. Division and chaos, tribal, religious and ethnic hatred, were the secret to empire. Guns and artillery were always in the background in case things went awry, but in fact, it rarely came to that.

It would appear the Israelis have paid close attention to English colonial policy because their policies in the Occupied Territories bear a distressing resemblance to Ireland under the Penal Laws.

The Israeli Knesset recently prevented Palestinians married to Arab Israelis from acquiring citizenship, a page lifted almost directly from the 1692 laws. Israeli human rights activist Yael Stein called the action "racist," and Knesset member Zeeva Galon said it denied "the fundamental right of Arab Israelis to start families." Even the U.S. is uncomfortable with the legislation. "The new law," said U.S. State Department spokesman Phillip Reeker, "singles out one group for different treatment than others."

Which, of course, was the whole point?


Imperial Blowback
As the penal laws impoverished the Irish, so do Israeli policies impoverish the Palestinians and keep them an underdeveloped pool of cheap labor. According to the United Nations, unemployment in the West Bank and Gaza is over 50%, and Palestinians are among the poorest people on the planet.

Any efforts by the Palestinians to build their own independent economic base are smothered by a network of walls, settler-exclusive roads and checkpoints. It is little different than British imperial policy in India, which systematically dismantled the Indian textile industry so that English cloth could clothe the sub-continent without competition.

Divide and conquer was 19th and early 20th century colonialism's single most successful tactic of domination. It was also a disaster, one which still echoes in civil wars and regional tensions across the globe. This latter lesson does not appear to be one the Israelis have paid much attention to. As a system of rule, division and privilege may work in the short run, but over time it engenders nothing but hatred. These polices, according to Lt. Gen. Moshe Yaalon, foment "terror,"adding, "In tactical decisions, we are operating contrary to our strategic interests."

The policy also creates divisions among Israelis. Empires benefit only a few, and always at the expense of the majority. While for example the Sharon government spends $1.4 billion a year holding on to the territories, 27% of Israeli children are officially designated "poor," social services have been cut, and the economy is in shambles.

By playing the Kurds against Syria and Iran, the Israelis may end up triggering a Turkish invasion of Kurdish Iraq, touching off a war that could engulf the entire region. That Israel would emerge from such a conflict unscathed is illusion.

Divide and conquer fails in the long run, but only after it inflicts stupendous damage, engendering hatreds that still convulse countries like Nigeria, India and Ireland. In the end it will fail to serve even the interests of the power that uses it. England kept Ireland divided for 800 years, but in the end, it lost.

The Israelis would do well to remember the Irish poet Patrick Pearse's eulogy over the grave of the old Fenian revolutionary, Jeremian "Rossa" O'Donovan:

"I say to my people's masters, beware. Beware of the thing that is coming. Beware of the risen people who shall take what yea would not give."


Conn Hallinan is a foreign policy analyst for Foreign Policy in Focus and a Lecturer in Journalism at the University of California, Santa Cruz.


The Model for Iraq was Ireland, 1692, Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules
by Conn Hallinan
Global Research, Feb 20, 2007
Iraqi League - 2006-12-28

Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh's revelations that the Israeli government is encouraging Kurdish separatism in Iraq, Iran, and Syria should ring a bell for anyone who has followed the long history of English imperial ambitions.


Orange Order

"divide and conquer"
The use of this strategy was imputed to administrators of vast empires, including the Roman and British, who were charged with playing one tribe against another to maintain control of their territories with a minimal number of imperial forces. The concept of "Divide and Rule" gained prominence when India was a part of the British Empire, but was also used to account for the strategy used by the Romans to take Britain, and for the Anglo-Normans to take Ireland. It is said that the British used the strategy to gain control of the large territory of India by keeping its people divided along lines of religion, language, or caste, taking control of petty princely states in India piecemeal.

The British employed "Divide and Rule" in British India as a means of preventing an uprising against the Raj. The partition of India is often attributed to these policies.
In his historical survey Constantine's Sword, James P. Carroll writes,


"Typically, imperial powers depend on the inability of oppressed local populations to muster a unified resistance, and the most successful occupiers are skilled at exploiting the differences among the occupied. Certainly that was the story of the British Empire's success, and its legacy of nurtured local hatreds can be seen wherever the Union Flag flew, from Muslim-Hindu hatred in Pakistan and India, to Catholic-Protestant hatred in Ireland, to, yes, Jew-Arab, hatred in modern Israel. [Ancient] Rome was as good at encouraging internecine resentments among the occupied as Britain ever was."



A coin with two sides. The "Nazi-Zionist" medallion.

1.
"Nazi-Zionist" medallion was issued by the Berlin daily Der Angriff to commemorate a joint visit to Zionist Palestine by SS officer Leopold von Mildenstein and Zionist Federation official Kurt Tuchler. A series of articles on their tour, appearing under the heading "A Nazi Travels to Palestine," appeared in Der Angriff in late 1934.
"Zionism and the Third Reich,"
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html

2.
It was a struck for Goebbels' Der Angriff newspaper and translates as "A (Nazi) travels to Palestine". It served to commemorate the occasion a Zionist supporter/sympathiser, (and assured collaborator), SS member Baron Leopold Von Mildenstein, together with his wife and Kurt Tuchler of The Zionist Federation of Germany, spent six months travelling Palestine.

At this time many German Zionists, like Tuchler, were Nazi supporters and emphatically indulged themselves in what they saw as the integrity and goodwill of NSDAP policy toward Jewish resettlement: it also furthered their political objectives. Mildenstein's favourable report was therefore sought equally by German Zionists and Nazi's in their collective efforts at proselytising the peopling of Palestine with Jewish Semites. The Journals of this visit were subsequently serialised in Der Angriff in the mid 30's. I believe Von Mildenstein also championed the promotion of Eichmann within the Resettlement Dept.

The twisted genius of Goebbels can never be underestimated.

3.
THE Medallion was struck by the Third Reich to honor the co-operation and support given by the Zionist Jewish Agency in helping to make Germany "Judenfrei". The SS concluded written Agreements with the Zionist organization to ensure that Jews in Germany or under their control were forced to emigrate, selling their assets, the proceeds of which were placed in German bank accounts which would be available to the Jewish Agency for the purchase of goods and services from Germany IF the deportee agreed to settle in Palestine.

The new immigrant to the Jewish controlled area of Palestine, and his family would be given jobs, typically on a Kibbutz, and become a farm laborer - with his tractor and farm equipment purchased from Germany (but owned by the Jewish Agency). It was a difficult choice for the Jew who hated farming and the nasty climate in Palestine - but if it meant his and his family's life, he often took it.

Accordingly, the Zionists encouraged the Nazi regime to make life as frighteningly miserable as possible for Jews under their control. The choice was Concentration Camp or Palestine (Israel). Many thousands chose Palestine. Germany rid itself of Jews and improved it's economy and Jewish Palestine ( then a Communist entity) received the colonists it desperately needed to outnumber the indigenous peoples whose land it was. Much literature exists documenting this arrangement including a book entitled "The Transfer Agreement ". In other words, Zionists strongly supported the harshest treatment of European Jews by Hitler. The Nazi regime created this Medal in honor of their collaboration in ridding Europe of Jews, while preserving their lives.


4.
The medal commemorated Baron von Mildenstein's visit to Palestine.
"... Thus, in early 1933, Baron Leopold Itz Edler von Mildenstein, a man who a few years later was to become chief of the Jewish section of the SD (the Sicherheitsdienst, or security service, the SS intelligence branch headed by Reinhard Heydrich), was invited along with his wife to tour Palestine and to write a series of articles for Goebbels's Der Angriff. And so it was that the Mildensteins, accompanied by Kurt Tuchler, a leading member of the Berlin Zionist Organisation, and his wife, visited Jewish settlements in Eretz Israel.

The highly positive articles, entitled "A Nazi Visits Palestine," were duly published, and, to mark the occasion, a special medallion cast, with a swastika on one side and a Star of David on the other."
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby jumpy64 on October 2nd, 2015, 10:35 am

pov603 wrote:You say '...to verify the quotes...' but to which ones in particular are you drawing our attention?


Obviously the ones you'll find by googling "Talmudic quotes against gentiles".
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby jumpy64 on October 2nd, 2015, 10:51 am

Pov603, why don't you just link to the article you want us to read, as I did, please? I think what you just did uselessly occupies space here, and makes this topic more difficult to read.

I myself can't read the whole quote now, but from what I gather at a quick glance the difference with my quote is that in the latter "divide and conquer" is mentioned by an influential person of the ethnic group in question, while here it doesn't seem to be the case. But I may be mistaken, because as I said I haven't read it all yet.
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby jumpy64 on October 2nd, 2015, 11:38 am

Here's a very telling interview to former Israeli minister of Education, both in written and video format:

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php ... se.293491/
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby pov603 on October 2nd, 2015, 11:43 am

If the article '...uselessly occupies space...' I have no objection to the 'mods' removing its content.
I fail to see how or why you skirt around this issue without properly naming [or shaming as you seem to be intent on doing] the 'minority' and their 'intentions' that you are focussing on.
You draw our attention to 'divide and conquer' like it is specifically a Hebrew-Israeli-Jewish [or H-I-J...] trait when in fact it is a common modus operandi for TPTB irrespective of creed.
You should try to be more specific in what it is you are trying to convey to others, then allow them to research matters further as they deem appropriate rather than hinting at things and then [seemingly] taking exception to others contending your assertions.
Also remember if it worries you that a disproportionate 'minority' exerts influence over the vast majority then consider the disproportionate influence the 'white-christian-western' portion of the world exerts over the rest.
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby jumpy64 on October 2nd, 2015, 1:47 pm

pov603 wrote:I fail to see how or why you skirt around this issue without properly naming [or shaming as you seem to be intent on doing] the 'minority' and their 'intentions' that you are focussing on.


I've already stated my motivations more than once in my previous posts. They're still there for you to read again, if you wish.

You draw our attention to 'divide and conquer' like it is specifically a Hebrew-Israeli-Jewish [or H-I-J...] trait when in fact it is a common modus operandi for TPTB irrespective of creed.


You're putting in my mouth words I've never said. "Divide and conquer" is a widely used military tactics. In fact, I think it comes originally from the ancient Romans' "divide et impera". I've never said it's something specific of a certain ethnic group. But in the case I linked to, http://cis.org/articles/2001/back1301.html, it's used in very specific and non war-related context in a way that seems highly questionable to me. But everybody can read and decide for themselves, of course.

You should try to be more specific in what it is you are trying to convey to others, then allow them to research matters further as they deem appropriate rather than hinting at things and then [seemingly] taking exception to others contending your assertions.


I thank you for your advice, but I hope you will forgive me if, after considering it, I've decided to keep writing my posts as I deem appropriate, given the circumstances. And by the way, where do you see me limiting others to "research matters as they deem appropriate"? Of course anybody can research what and how they want, just as I can give the hints I consider more effective.

And as for "taking exception to others", I just said to you (not "others") if you could please link to long documents instead of copying and pasting them. And now that I read it, I can also say that, in my opinion, the article was at best only marginally relevant. It basically says what you said more effectively in just a few words here: other nations and ethnic groups have used divide and conquer tactics. True, but so what? I think such tactics are to be denounced whenever discovered. One instance at a time though, otherwise only confusion results.

Also remember if it worries you that a disproportionate 'minority' exerts influence over the vast majority then consider the disproportionate influence the 'white-christian-western' portion of the world exerts over the rest.


Actually, what I'm suggesting as a possibility here is that this "disproportionate minority", as you call it, exerts covert and undue influence over the "white-christian-western portion of the world" that you see as controlling the rest ofthe world, so for me it would still be a case of the former minority exerting a "disproportionate influence over the rest" by controlling in particular just the "white-christian-western portion" in question. I know this may sound a bit complicated, but I don't know how to express myself better here, so please forgive me and try to understand me anyway, if you will.

And in any case, you can always open a new topic in this forum to talk about this "disproportionate influence" that you see. And maybe even about the use of "divide and conquer" tactics in Ireland in 1692, if you think it's something relevant to the current situation in 2015. It's just a suggestion.
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby hoi.polloi on October 2nd, 2015, 3:53 pm

jumpy64,

The thread you've created here is a really mixed bag and I'm not really sure what to do with it.

What is obviating about our threads that directly question the so-called "Jewish Holocaust", that openly point out the number of self-proclaimed Jews in the media and that constantly make plain our suspicion of names associated with the Jewish religions (Talmudic, Jewish atheism, etc.) and their naming conventions?

I understand the "artistry" of acting conspiratorial and whispery about something you identify as a censored topic, but on our forum I think what we could really use is something that shows faith in the mods, and more specific contentions.

Please, help us rename your thread to something less paranoid. How about "Reflections on Jewish influence" or something? Or, if you are trying to tell us "the ethnic group" you won't mention is because you don't know what it is, say that. And help us narrow it down instead of taking on the "alternative mainstream" position of setting up the "all Jews are so bad we can't talk about it" straw man.

If the name of the group is not something you have yet identified because it's hiding within the Jewish population, largely using the Jewish position, which in turn protects the conspiracy for a mutually-beneficial arrangement, that makes more sense to me. But then, it goes against your point that the conspiracy is "open".

I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Simon and I have been trying hard to pin this topic down for a while now, ourselves. But if it starts with the same old "White Power" kind of arguments, you cannot let it end there and say it's good research. You'll want to ask harder questions of your own assertions. For example, as "omaxsteve" already pointed out, even though he has had a Jewish upbringing, we might note that he has challenged your weakest points about the scope of the conspiracy. That makes your opening post look as though you want to ineffectually identify the true perpetrators of the hoaxes.

Here are questions we contributors should really ask ourselves about the existing discoveries of those investigating the Jewish conspiracy.

What has the investigation uncovered besides the fact that conspirators in the media claim to be Jewish? How can we reconcile this with how little we explore, as researchers, what that claim means? What does it mean to "be" Jewish? What is the history of Judaic armies forcing conversion on other peoples? What ethnicities combined (or were eliminated) in order to form the modern Jewish thrust? Which peoples have Jews raped/pillaged/committed genocide on? As "jumpy64" on our forum, you have written a good precursor to this research and given us okay "hints" to start learning what has survived about time periods thousands of years ago. However, on CluesForum, it's not enough; we need new original research or newly compiled research and we need to ask better, more intelligent, more optimistic and more effective questions than those that have come before.

What is the meaning of so many groups generally propping up the Jewish whipping boy? What is humanity's tendency, in terms of all its ethnic groups, to hear the Jewish lie/skewed tale of Jews being "an oppressed underdog minority just fighting back to survive" and using that as a mask — in all its variety and forms — to cover up their own atrocities, failures and lies? In other words, why is the "Jewish conspiracy" so eager to be used as a foil whenever we try to find a foil?

Is it because it cannot hide as well as other groups, or is it because a Jewish sect has volunteered to be the Public Relations "intelligence wing" front of the psychopaths?

I believe we could try to understand the location of the Zionist, Jewish, Talmudic, Masonic, Gnostic, Catholic, Christian, Islamic, Sufi, Shriner, Pagan, Ba'Hai, Scientologist, Mormon, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic and other "fraternal order" entry points to the core sect of psychopaths. And if we did, I believe we would find a universal problem with humanity applying once again to a particular historic time period (in which we now live) where a particularly large portion of the Jewish minority ethnicity happen to be the latest iteration of a fucking long lasting problem with how we fail to design ourselves better as a species.

Until you can definitively prove this problem has solely been with the existence of Jews for a reasonable portion of all recorded time periods, we must process the fact that we don't know how to design ourselves better as a species but that trying to is a fundamental assumption (and bias) of this research pseudo-community.

We cannot allow any form of prejudice to take over our clear rationale and focus on evidence, since that is historically and universally the first step to getting a community rammed into another community with an opposite viewpoint by whatever this conspiracy is — whether it's Jews or some other force happily forcing us into the feud or not. Simon and I will not allow our forum, as well as we can prevent it anyway, to meet the fate of so many other forums that devolve into a personal feud between intellectuals from every ethnicity around the world. And anyway, it is not where our research has taken us. We haven't found that the majority of hoaxers are Jewish. We have evidence to support a Jewish tribal mentality, but that's something just about everyone is already aware of.

Assuming Jews do not want to fix their own culture just because the culture effectively makes many of its members into haters is naive.

The problem with our own cultures, we can see plainly enough here.

How many people have joined not CluesForum but simply the efforts of CluesForum to find the detailed problems? Amongst millions of people? How many people have shown a tendency to point the finger at a culprit other than one handed to us by a race that is eager to make enemies? This is a problem that we all have, all over the world, apparently. And in our search for those cultures that have better "technology" at self-improvement, why would you look to the Jewish belief system? It's failed for centuries, just as all world views, including our own, have failed to figure out the existential human dilemma.

Has it occurred to nobody that agreeing to be enemies with a group (that collects enemies as a form of twisted pleasure) is a form of strengthening the fucked up mentality within that group? I don't think so.

jumpy64 wrote:Actually, what I'm suggesting as a possibility here is that this "disproportionate minority", as you call it, exerts covert and undue influence over the "white-christian-western portion of the world" that you see as controlling the rest ofthe world, so for me it would still be a case of the former minority exerting a "disproportionate influence over the rest" by controlling in particular just the "white-christian-western portion" in question. I know this may sound a bit complicated, but I don't know how to express myself better here, so please forgive me and try to understand me anyway, if you will.


This suggestion is already the best you have written about what you think. Please continue to improve your expression and keep going. It seems like you are onto something, but you are using our forum as a place to practice your writing rather than presenting your best efforts. Maybe, gather your thoughts, come back to us with a more focused title for your thread and also some cohesive research that fits under that title.
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby brianv on October 2nd, 2015, 4:13 pm

At last - moderation!

The "News" and the "Jews" are both decoys or smokescreens for the Aristocrat Banking Dynasties from antiquity. As is "Politics", "Sport", "Education", "Entertainment", etc etc.
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby Selene on October 2nd, 2015, 4:28 pm

Excellently elaborated and nuanced post, hoi. My sincere compliments.

Two highlights from your outstanding set of reasonable and cautious arguments:

hoi.polloi wrote:....

I believe we could try to understand the location of the Zionist, Jewish, Talmudic, Masonic, Gnostic, Catholic, Christian, Islamic, Sufi, Shriner, Pagan, Ba'Hai, Scientologist, Mormon, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic and other "fraternal order" entry points to the core sect of psychopaths. And if we did, I believe we would find a universal problem with humanity applying once again to a particular historic time period (in which we now live) where a particularly large portion of the Jewish minority ethnicity happen to be the latest iteration of a fucking long lasting problem with how we fail to design ourselves better as a species.


Exactly the problem I have with "the Jewish conspiracy", "the Muslim conspiracy", "the Irish conspiracy", "the black conspiracy" and even the "US American conspiracy NWO theory" or any similar "one-solution-for-all-problems/one-ring-to-rule-them-all-theories".

The common denominator of conspirators, hoaxers, liars is psychopathy; lack of remorse, constant lying, manipulation fetishes, lack of self-reflection, arrogance and a deceptive smile or other illusionary methods. It is not religion, culture, race, skin colour, community or country. It is a psychological problem which x % of the human population suffers from (personally psychologically; the damage to others would make that percentage 100...). Cross-border on all of the by you and many more deceptive diversion tactically proposed "common features".

To state that there's a world-wide conspiracy from one of these propagandised "groups" (collections of individual humans based on nonsensical common factors) is like saying that the motive for the conspiracy is coming from such a "group".

What we see in the world, however, is a "psychopathical playground" of warfare and politics, media hoaxes and antiscientific lies, spread as info, disinfo, contra-info, misinfo, non-info and whatever other method these psychopaths share. Psychopaths everywhere, from all kinds of backgrounds, religions, countries, social classes and families.

The only reason why a topic like this should be anywhere outside of the "musings category" (people know which topics I see fitting there), is if jumpy could make a strong evidence-based case that:

1 - psychopathy and similar psychological handicaps are devastigingly more abundant amongst "Jews" (1: Judaists?, 2: Jews "by birth" (from a Jewish mother), 3: non-Jews according to "Jewish maternal laws" but ancestors of Jewish "blood"?, 4: "Khazarian-type"/Fake Jews who claim to be genealogically related to the "Jewish bloodline" -if that even exists-?) to have a statistical causal-relation case between "Jewry" and conspiracies/psycho behaviour.
2 - clear and rational arguments confirm that these conspiracies can be called "Jewish"; that they are coming from/based in a specific culture, religion or set of "rules" that can only be found amongst "Jews" (from each of one of the 4 "groups" mentioned before).

If this "Conspiracy" or "Hiding" were really to be "in Plain Sight" and "A Very Open" one (note all the capitalised letters in the title chosen by jumpy :rolleyes: -no capital there- ), it would be a piece of bar mitswah cake to present these arguments in a concised manner, not? :huh:

We cannot allow any form of prejudice to take over our clear rationale and focus on evidence, ...
Has it occurred to nobody that agreeing to be enemies with a group (that collects enemies as a form of twisted pleasure) is a form of strengthening the fucked up mentality within that group?


Very much agreed.

And the more one refrains from media influence and meets people from all religion, race, colour, and zillion other non-rational common denominators, the more one sees how much humanity is alike and that the split is not within those groups but between moral, self-reflecting, remorseful, sincere individual Homo sapiens and the lying, manipulating, power-hungry, hoaxing, deceiving psychopaths who want to create, maintain and spread the irrelevant separations; divide & conquer tactics.

Selene

PS: personally I see no fit for this musings topic on Cluesforum, but you're the admin.
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby jumpy64 on October 2nd, 2015, 6:10 pm

Dear Hoi Polloi,

I must confess that I had to read your post a few times to understand what you meant exactly in some parts, and I'm not sure I succeded. Maybe because of personal limitations I can't seem to overcome right now, but i found your prose, usualy much more brilliant, a little convoluted here and there. I hope you won't take it as a personal offense, because it's not meant as such, it's just the honest opinion of an avid reader, and admirer, of many of your posts. Maybe it's just that your dialectic capabilities are superior to mine, also because you're using your own language and I'm not, so I can't understand certain subtleties yet.

Anyway, here I'll try to respond as clearly as I can to the observations I think I understood better. Here we go.

What is obviating about our threads that directly question the so-called "Jewish Holocaust", that openly point out the number of self-proclaimed Jews in the media and that constantly make plain our suspicion of names associated with the Jewish religions (Talmudic, Jewish atheism, etc.) and their naming conventions?


It's not my intention to obviate (I had to look this word up, I admit) anything. I know about at least one thread you mention (the one about "propaganda, censorship and media fakery"), so I wanted as little overlapping as possible. I wanted to confront the topic from a what seemed to me a more general and different perspective.

I understand the "artistry" of acting conspiratorial and whispery about something you identify as a censored topic, but on our forum I think what we could really use is something that shows faith in the mods, and more specific contentions.
Please, help us rename your thread to something less paranoid. How about "Reflections on Jewish influence" or something? Or, if you are trying to tell us "the ethnic group" you won't mention is because you don't know what it is, say that. And help us narrow it down instead of taking on the "alternative mainstream" position of setting up the "all Jews are so bad we can't talk about it" straw man.
If the name of the group is not something you have yet identified because it's hiding within the Jewish population, largely using the Jewish position, which in turn protects the conspiracy for a mutually-beneficial arrangement, that makes more sense to me. But then, it goes against your point that the conspiracy is "open".


I identify the topic in question as censored? It is a censored topic, if not the most censored one, at least in my country (but in others too), where people ended up in jail for speaking their minds about it in a critical way. But I've already said this in a previous post, so I can't understand why it doesn't sink in. And I hate to quote myself, but it seems necessary here: "if I'm being even blatantly overcautious here, it's to make the censorship that exists strikingly more evident, because I consider it a very telling anomaly in itself. It speaks more eloquently, I believe, than any more specific words I could use". I believe in what I said, and I can't but confirm it here. And of course I know that in other threads you use freely the specific terms I'm avoiding here, so I'm not saying that you censor them on Cluesforum.

So call it provocation, "artistry" (as you say), personal protection or even cowardice if you like (but everybody here understood what I'm talking about, so I'm not really protecting myself much; on the contrary, probably I've exposed myself even more, at least to criticism), but this is the way I've chosen to speak about this matter in this thread, and I've specified the reasons why. So if what I'm doing doesn't conform to this forum's standards, you can take any measure you deem necessary. You can eliminate the thread, if you want.

I'm not adding "and I don't care" because it's not true. I'd be sorry and disappointed if you did it. But I guess you can do it, either because you and Simon run this forum and have a recognized authority that I'm not questioning here (on the contrary, I think myself that your authority is totally legitimate) or because the majority of members would agree with you (as Selene and brianv are already saying while I'm writing this post).

But please, don't rename the thread, because if you did I feel it would lose its nature as I intended it. Really, I'd rather you delete the thread. I'm serious. I hope I have the authority at least to ask you this, since I "created" this thread, as you say yourself. I guess it wouldn't even be a big sacrifice for you, since you don't seem to find it very useful. It would be just ironic for me to be censored in a "conspiracy site". But mind you: I'm not looking forward to such an eventuality, nor I consider it probable. I'm just considering a "worst case scenario" to see what I'd be willing to accept. Not happily, of course, but my high esteem for you and Simon would prevent me to be a "sore loser" in any case.

As for the rest of your post, this is where you lost me a bit. We're probably on different wavelenght about certain things. It could very well be because I'm naive, misguided, or whatever you want. I'm not admitting to this, because I don't feel this way now, but maybe, I'll realize it one day, who knows. Or maybe you'll realize something too. We're all trying to grow and progress, so things can change at any moment for anyone.

But for now, after also having read Selene's last post, I must say that I don't buy into the "psychopaths" theory. Of course most people who run the world in the way we see here must be psychopaths, but this is not a psychiatric issue.

To me saying, like Selene does in her post, that the world is a "'psychopathical playground' of warfare and politics, media hoaxes and antiscientific lies, spread as info, disinfo, contra-info, misinfo, non-info and whatever other method these psychopaths share. Psychopaths everywhere, from all kinds of backgrounds, religions, countries, social classes and families" just muddles the water, creates confusion and leads nowhere. If this "psychopathical playground" theory is true, then we don't need investigators into media hoaxes and New World Order. What we need most would be a team of psychiatrists and psychologists. Is anybody here of that profession? Let's gather them quickly, what are we waiting for?

We don't even have to look any further, because Selene seems already positive about who's responsible for the current state of affairs. Like brianv too, although he prefers to blame other elusive and mysteriously generic groups like "Aristocrats, Banking Dynasties", and such. Yeah, let's tell it like it is to these bastards! After all, there's no laws against criticizing them, right?

What I was trying to do is identifying a kind of conditioning (cultural and religious) that I think could reasonably create a psychopathic mentality. And I see it as "open" because it's actually been in front of people's eyes for many, many years. I consider my attempt, however imperfect, much more constructive than chasing phantomatic entities like some seem to prefer to do here.

Really, some people here seem to me all too eager to close this thread. Could there be, even remotely, the possibility that I struck a nerve?

Please continue to improve your expression and keep going. It seems like you are onto something, but you are using our forum as a place to practice your writing rather than presenting your best efforts. Maybe, gather your thoughts, come back to us with a more focused title for your thread and also some cohesive research that fits under that title.


Thank you for your suggestion, Hoi. That's not what I feel like doing right now, but one day, who knows... I feel your good intentions towards me, anyway, and I won't blame you and Simon for anything you will decide.
Last edited by jumpy64 on October 2nd, 2015, 6:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on A Very Open Conspi

Postby hoi.polloi on October 3rd, 2015, 12:32 am

jumpy64, I think the thing we are generally butting heads about here is your artistic use of self-censorship, which you call provocation. We don't like provocation and emotional ploys. You'll see quite simply that we do not use them so often on CluesForum unless we truly suspect we are cornering a shill or team of shills.

"if I'm being even blatantly overcautious here, it's to make the censorship that exists strikingly more evident, because I consider it a very telling anomaly in itself. It speaks more eloquently, I believe, than any more specific words I could use".


You're right that I hadn't process this. My bad. But to censor yourself and then say you are being censored (in a passive voice) really smacks of hypnotism, manipulation and deceit. The kinds of stuff we are combating. To make an accusation while claiming you aren't making one just doesn't work for me. I'm sorry.

I do mean well. If you don't mind, I won't close or move the thread but I will just rename it slightly. If you consider this an affront to your artistic reasonings, we will just have to accept we are at cross-purposes (in naming conventions only). Please reconsider your desire to have the thread deleted in that case. I truly believe it serves everyone to be open. By feigning cowardice, we endorse cowardice and that doesn't make the heart brave to talk about censored issues.

Let's just speak plainly. There is a Jewish conspiracy. Definitely. It's powerful, and it hides well, even while making brazen "accomplishments" against humanity and (I would argue) even against their own purposes. Why is this necessary for you to play hide-and-seek with? Do you have something to hide on this matter? I doubt it. Please look within yourself and ask why it is you feel the need to do this. You could just be open and plain. Don't be afraid.

If you are afraid of being questioned by intelligent people, which it seems is part of the problem here, you will definitely have issues posting at CluesForum, whose goal is to encourage intelligent discourse. Not being as direct as possible in this scenario (especially when asked about something as directly as we have) is definitely something CluesForum will continue to shun in the future. We ban people for not using their own heads, for parading some preconceived notions that haven't received adequate questioning, but you are not guilty of any of that. You may have indeed "struck a nerve" but I'm not sure it's the one you don't like to talk about. It's more like you are conflating self-attack with censorship on purpose and, no offense meant to you (nor is any so-called "racism" intended), but that seems like a very Jewish thing to do.

I agree with brianv that you should probably just start a blog or something, somehow. Especially since you seem to be confused about ideas that ask questions of your theory you aren't allowing yourself to talk about. You said yourself you are having trouble articulating what you want to say. I am sorry for that, but I am sure if you spend time on it you will be able to speak to readers more plainly. That's what we need. A blog is not an insulting suggestion; it is a great technology that many people use to develop and hone their thoughts before going on to write very powerful works on their topic(s) of choice.

Also, we should really ask ourselves which stories about people being fined or sent to jail for talking about "Holocaust" issues in an intelligent way have actually occurred. Is it possible those stories are more of the same scare tactics we see bandied about in the "war on terrorism" vein? This thread may be used, or another thread could be started about that topic. I think we have had some posts about it in the past, too, which may be found if you search for "Holocaust" in our forum.

Your answers to the challenges about many ethnicities having similar problems to Judaism/Jewishness/Zionism/Jews are not strong. If you really believe Jews are the main black hats (hey, wait, they do wear black hats!) in the world picture, you're going to have to be very convincing to all the people that have experienced and noted all the non-Jews fucking people over constantly.
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"Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspiracy"

Postby jumpy64 on October 3rd, 2015, 8:02 am

OK, Hoi Polloi, I'll have time to process your latest post during the weekend, since I won't have time to post anything at least in the next couple of days. I hope you guys won't miss me too much :D

As for the thread, you can do what you want with it, if you think it can be useful. And if that's the case, I'm glad to have contributed something, after all.

What bothers me about renaming it is that also the title of my first post should be changed. And in fact I see now that you've already changed it. Well, I think that title is (or I should say "was" by now) an essential part of the whole post, if not the most essential. In fact, the whole post kind of collapses if we see plainly in the title what I try to avoid saying in it. And I also think that it is the main characteristic of the conspiracy to be "very open", at least for being a conspiracy. And it's also a reference to H.G. Well's "Open Conspiracy", but I'm sure everybody here got that.

So can I at least add to the post the following statement, right after "a huge elephant in the room here":

The original title of my post is "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on a Very Open Conspiracy". It's been found inadequate by the administrators of this forum, who have changed it to what now appears above.

And then I would begin the following phrase with "By the way, I salute the many", etc.

I'm asking you to do it, please, because it seems that I don't have the option to change that post anymore. I hope you will do it.

One last thing for now: of course the suggestion of opening a blog wasn't the insulting part of the message you're referring to. Come on, you can't have missed the "garbage" part. That denoted aggressiveness and desire to offend. Not that I got offended at all. It just gave another confirmation that I "struck a nerve" in some people here.

But never mind. Thank you and have a nice weekend everybody.
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Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspiracy

Postby simonshack on October 3rd, 2015, 12:48 pm

hoi.polloi wrote:Also, we should really ask ourselves which stories about people being fined or sent to jail for talking about "Holocaust" issues in an intelligent way have actually occurred. Is it possible those stories are more of the same scare tactics we see bandied about in the "war on terrorism" vein?


Sorry Hoi, but you're completely missing the point here - and I will (somewhat reluctantly) respond to your appeal to "talk about" this tiresome, taboo-by-legislation issue in an intelligent way"- since you clearly have little or no grasp of the seriousness / gravity of the subject at hand. To be sure, I have no desire to enter an intellectual / internecine feud over this and, as a matter of fact, I am intervening here in the hope of defusing any such useless quarrels 'in their cradle'. However, please know that for me to even "talk about" this issue on a public website, I am possibly exposing myself (and perhaps even this forum) to undue aggravation - in one form or another, ranging from petty /unnecessary / 'random personal troubles' and all the way to - believe it or not - 5 years of imprisonment. To my best knowledge, some uncowardly folks around Europe have indeed been jailed for the 'thought crime' of simply questioning the official holocaust narrative - and credible (in my book) stories of such 'freedom-of-speech' martyrs abound. By suggesting - without a shred of evidence to back it up - that these stories may all be fake (and just part of the same scare tactics we're all familiar with), you are doing exactly what you just accused Jumpy of doing:

hoipolloi wrote:"To make an accusation while claiming you aren't making one just doesn't work for me."


Regardless - and as I said - whether these sad stories are true or not is NOT the point here. The point is the following, undeniable, disturbing and very tangible reality that (citing Wickedpedia) "Holocaust denial, the denial of the systematic genocidal killing of millions of ethnic minorities in Europe (including Jews) by Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s, is illegal in 14 European nations." As it is, that figure should now be "15" - since the Italian Senate recently passed such a law - on February 11 this year (with an overwhelming majority 234 /vs/ 11 vote !!! ) - which introduces penalties ranging from one to five years of imprisonment for said "thought crimes". Please translate this Italian news item for yourself:

"Anche l'Italia avrà la sua legge contro il negazionismo. Ieri, in tempi record, la commissione Giustizia del Senato ha approvato quasi all'unanimità un emendamento che modifica l'articolo 414 del codice penale, quello riguardante l'istigazione a delinquere e l'apologia di delitto, aggiungendo appunto il reato di negazionismo, punito da uno a cinque anni di carcere."
http://www.polisblog.it/post/163659/ddl-negazionismo-accordo-al-senato-negare-lolocausto-sara-reato


Countries with laws against Holocaust denial
Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_agai ... denial.png


As you can see, no such unspeakably outrageous 'special' laws have been passed in the USA or the UK, so it would seem entirely inappropriate for you - from the safety of your national 'comfort zone' - to insinuate in any way or form any 'cowardice' on the part of Jumpy who, like myself and MOST European citizens, put our very personal freedoms at stake - only for expressing our thoughts on these matters on a publicly accessible website.
hoipolloi wrote:By feigning cowardice, we endorse cowardice and that doesn't make the heart brave to talk about censored issues.

I must say that I'm quite appalled / disconcerted by your 'treatment' of this good, thoughtful and particularly intelligent Italian friend of mine whom you have even met in person - ffs - here at my house. Yes, you do owe him an apology right away (in Italy, to call someone a 'codardo' - or even hint such a thing - is perhaps the most degrading of insults) - and please do not arbitrarily rename any threads submitted by entirely legit / trustworthy forum members anymore. Yup, I'm quite upset - and no, I don't expect you to feel 'hurt' by this post of mine.



*****
EDIT ! Ok, so I now re-read your post, Hoi - and realized that you were not implying any cowardice on the part of Jumpy (but only that if this thread were deleted - it could be interpreted as such). Sorry - I duly retract, my bad!
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