THE "CHATBOX"

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest
repentantandy
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by repentantandy »

Before a long argument starts here over whether it was possible to "finish" building the towers with dozens of floors still lacking even poured-concrete pans, and then severely compartmentalize access to the buildings behind falsified directories peppered with "ghost" businesses, please check the "Rollers' archives" to see how that group of amateur researchers hashed through the available evidence and came to their astonishing conclusions. Maybe you'll be convinced, maybe not. But there's a lot of material over there to consider, analyse and evaluate -- some of it much more compelling than the fancifully speculative, or perhaps even disinformational rest.

And in any case, please remember:

In its primary assertion of massive deception and continuing cover-up by the 9/11 perps, sponsors and supporters, the hollow-towers/fake-tenants theory does NOT contradict the fake-video/fake-victims theory -- despite the oversupply of rude/suspicious comments that the initial promoters of these separate (but certainly related, and mutually banned elsewhere) lines of investigation have web-posted about each other.

When considered together, the two theories paint an even larger, more ghastly and devious picture of insider-staged scamming -- to immorally and illegally enrich and empower their own tribe(s) while boosting the desolation and death-quotient of everyday existence for everyone else.

It's just the latest chapter in a very old yet ongoing story. :(
fbenario
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by fbenario »

"10 Steps to Defeat the Corporatocracy

2. Confront and Transform ALL Institutions that Have Destroyed Individual Self-Respect and Collective Self-Confidence

In "Get Up, Stand Up, " I detail 12 major institutional and cultural areas that have broken people's sprit of resistance, and all are "battlefields for democracy" in which we can fight to regain our individual self-respect and collective self confidence:
• Television
• Isolation and bureaucratization
• "Fundamentalist consumerism" and advertising/propaganda
• Student loan debt and indentured servitude
• Surveillance
• The decline of unions/solidarity among working people
• Greed and a "money-centric" culture
• Fear-based schools that teach obedience
• Psychopathologizing noncompliance
• Elitism via professional training
• The corporate media
• The US electoral system

3. Side Each Day in Every Way With Anti-Authoritarians

We can recover our self-respect and strength by regaining our integrity. This process requires a personal transformation to overcome our sense of powerlessness and fight for what we believe in. Integrity includes acts of courage resisting all illegitimate authorities. We must recognize that in virtually every aspect of our life in every day, we can either be on the side of authoritarianism and the corporatocracy or on the side of anti-authoritarianism and democracy. Specifically, we can question the legitimacy of government, media, religious, educational and other authorities in our lives, and if we establish that an authority is not legitimate, we can resist it. And we can support others who are resisting illegitimate authorities. A huge part of solidarity comes from supporting others who are resisting the illegitimate authorities in their lives. Walt Whitman had it right: "Resist much, obey little. Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved."
...
7. Heal from "Corporatocracy Abuse" and "Battered People's Syndrome" to Gain Strength

Activists routinely become frustrated when truths about lies, victimization and oppression don't set people free to take action. But when we human beings eat crap for too long, we gradually lose our self-respect to the point that we become psychologically too weak to take action. Many Americans are embarrassed to accept that, after years of corporatocracy subjugation, we have developed "battered people's syndrome" and what Bob Marley called "mental slavery." To emancipate ourselves and others, we must:
• Move out of denial and accept that we are a subjugated people.
• Admit that we have bought into many lies. There is a dignity, humility, and strength in facing the fact that, while we may have once bought into some lies, we no longer do so.
• Forgive ourselves and others for accepting the abuser's lies. Remember the liars we face are often quite good at lying.
• Maintain a sense of humor. Victims of horrific abuse, including those in concentration camps and slave plantations, have discovered that pain can either immobilize us or be transformed by humor into energy.
• Stop beating ourselves up for having been in an abusive relationship. The energy we have is better spent on healing and then working to change the abusive system; this provides more energy, and when we use this energy to provide respect and confidence for others, everybody gets energized.

8. Unite Populists by Rejecting Corporate Media's Political Divisions

The corporate media routinely divides Americans as "liberals," "conservatives" and "moderates," a useful division for the corporatocracy, because no matter which of these groups is the current electoral winner, the corporatocracy retains power.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e28172.htm
SmokingGunII
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by SmokingGunII »

nonhocapito wrote:
antipodean wrote:Seeing as this appears to be the picture that started the "hollow towers" debate, maybe someone can explain exactly when this photo was taken.
According to Phil Jayhan, this picture was taken on the early morning of 9/11/2001 by the architects firm responsible of building the twin towers, Leslie E Robertson and Associates
http://letsrollforums.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=31
yeah I know :blink: sometimes the weirdest statements go unnoticed :lol:
No idea where he got this notion from. Nobody even asks over there (he wouldn't last a day here with statements like these, I know that). I guess he imagines that Leslie E Robertson and Associates secretly wants to blow the lid on the whole thing, so they keep the photo on their website, for him to notice how the towers looked hollow on 9/11. :rolleyes:

Yeah - I thought I was the only one who picked this up, Nonho!!

I have no wish to register there because I don't trust Jayhan or the site. I do like some of the researchers on there though. Still, if Phil can explain to me, with supporting evidence, that the sun can reflect off of a building and thus cause a shadow to fall directly towards the source, as he claims in the Naudet fake, I am willing to be convinced that he is genuinely looking for the truth. <_<

Additionally, he might explain why the same pedestrian crossing the road fails to notice a jet flying 80m above his head. Poor old Pfeifer can't even get his cue right. :lol:



EDIT: LOL. Just read Phil quoting me and blaming Simon on LR. Let's hope his research is a little more accurate. :lol:
repentantandy
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by repentantandy »

For those readers who did not actually click on the link that nonho provided, the posting it brings up has Mr. Jayhan saying something a bit different that what nonho stated was said. Quote:

"You will observe that the South Tower is capped. Yes this denoted finished. This picture was taken September 11th, 1972 by Leslie E Robertson and Associates."

As to the source of this much earlier date, however, no verification was given in that posting.
nonhocapito
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by nonhocapito »

repentantandy wrote:For those readers who did not actually click on the link that nonho provided, the posting it brings up has Mr. Jayhan saying something a bit different that what nonho stated was said. Quote:

"You will observe that the South Tower is capped. Yes this denoted finished. This picture was taken September 11th, 1972 by Leslie E Robertson and Associates."

As to the source of this much earlier date, however, no verification was given in that posting.
It might say that now, but I assure you a few hours ago it said 2001 (or maybe it had no indication of year, which is just as well since in current language, if you say "9/11", it means "2001") . I guess it was a trivial error that was corrected after my discussing it here (you're welcome, Phil). As if the fact that the picture was taken on 9/11 of all days, even if in 1972, doesn't make this weird enough...

bottom line:

1) Correct me if I am wrong, but in 1972 the towers weren't finished or occupied yet so maybe all it lacks in the picture (if the picture was real and not photoshopped, and who can tell?) are not the floors but the internal walls on some of the floors (= the picture is not unequivocal on the hollowness of the towers).
2) I hate how the "hollow towers" theory (a theory based on one picture? Whatever...) is deliberately confused and mixed with the notion that the towers were emptied and maybe gutted out of furniture and other stuff on 9/11. So if you disagree with the unsupported, non logic, unnecessary, distracting idea that the towers had no floors, you are being rebutted because you don't agree that the towers were "empty". It is a semantic trick more than anything else. A real time waster.
fbenario
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by fbenario »

I suppose this might be helpful to debunk those who say no one could put explosives - or do anything else - to a building without the tenants and public being aware.
Secret retrofit of Citigroup Center in 1978

Later that month, LeMessurier met for an inquiry on another job where he mentioned the use of welded joints in the Citicorp building, only to find a potentially fatal flaw in the building's construction: the original design's welded joints were changed to bolted joints during construction, which were too weak to withstand 70-mile-per-hour (113 km/h) quartering winds.
...
It was reported that LeMessurier agonized over how to deal with the problem, and, by making it known to the wider world, risked ruining his professional reputation. He approached Citicorp directly and advised them of the need to take swift remedial action, ultimately convincing the company to hire a crew of welders to repair the fragile building without informing the public, a task made easier by the press strike at that time.

For the next three months, a construction crew welded two-inch-thick steel plates over each of the skyscraper's 200 bolted joints during the night, after each work day, almost unknown to the general public.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citigroup_Center
nonhocapito
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by nonhocapito »

In case anyone was interested, I updated the captcha system again. Hopefully this time it will work. If you're curious, you can see it in action on the register page (the link won't work until you log out, sorry). Let me know if you feel it isn't intuitive or foolproof enough.
nonhocapito
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by nonhocapito »

There doesn't seem to be much interested in the topic, anyway just as an update: I just deleted a bunch of spam posts. :angry: I refuse to believe that the latest anti-spam system installed is ineffective. It is completely visual and too advanced for bots. Hence, I have to start to believe that humans (and not bots) are posting spam to this forum. To mess with it. Unfortunately. :angry:
brianv
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by brianv »

Viva Espana

The Spanish Goverment has begun attacking it's own people, what time do the Americans start bombing??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... dFc3sgzz1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 8OtU#at=34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geg_6Xoy ... r_embedded
Last edited by brianv on Sat May 28, 2011 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Questron
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Questron »

Where can I find the videos that show the WTC disappearing behind the fire-ball. I can't remember where that one is. I though Killtown had done one showing all the fake flames and such put to a song called "see the sun" but can't find it anywhere.

It is really strange having not looked at this stuff for about a year.... many of the videos and websites discussing 911 TV Fakery are now completely gone.
fbenario
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by fbenario »

DoD Paper Proposes National Security Through a Culture of Restraint (and Stigma)

"An SAIC analyst has written a paper [PDF] calling for the 'stigmatization' of the 'unattractive' types who tend to discuss government secrets in public. The plan, described in the Naval Postgraduate School Homeland Security Affairs journal, is to promote self-censorship as a 'civic duty'. Who needs to censor themselves? Amateur enthusiasts who describe satellite orbits, scientists who describe threats to the food supply, graduate students mapping the internet, the Government Accountability Office, which publishes failure reports on the TSA, the US Geologic Survey, which publishes surface water information, newspapers (the New York Times), TV shows, journalism websites, anti-secrecy websites, and even security author Bruce Schneier, to name a few."

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/05/27/ ... and-Stigma
Here's the whole article. It's pretty dull stuff overall, all the usual fabricated scenarios about why no one should ever disclose a government secret. Blah blah blah.
http://www.hsaj.org/?fullarticle=7.1.10
nonhocapito
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by nonhocapito »

Image

Hey. It doesn't have much to do with what we write about on this forum, but I just realized that three days ago Gil Scott-Heron died. He was 62. You probably heard of him: american artist and poet, pioneer of grassroot hip-hop, lately a crack addict... the first poem/song to give him notoriety was "The revolution will not be televised".
Yes, he invented the expression "...will not be televised" that we all so often use in this day and age.

"There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock news"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8

"I left three days ago... but no one seem to know I'm gone..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOUMvjw9RlA
They have taken all this time to stand up straight so that they can say ‘I.’ They’re very proud of that. The way you get to know yourself is by the expressions on other people’s faces, because that’s the only thing that you can see, unless you carry a mirror about. But if you keep saying ‘I’ and they’re saying ‘I,’ you don’t get much out of it. They’re not really into you, or we, or they; they’re into I. That makes conversation slow.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010 ... ntPage=all

Personally I don't believe in revolution in the traditional sense, i don't believe in sudden global changes, i think those do not come around (unless they are instead secretly prepared for a long time before they are "televised" -- and for reasons different from what people are taught to believe.) I'd rather have slow, cautious steps in the better directions. But...

...hearing and reading today "The revolution will not be televised", everything we discuss seem to be there: the wild expectations we have towards the media, and the realization that the media bring nothing good by themselves -- all the contrary. All in all, I think it is visible in transparency how delusional those days in the 70s and 60s were, when people thought that huge global things outside of the media-run world had a real chance to happen and to stick long enough to change the world for good.
On the other hand... good for them because they had faith.

I know we can say this today: the revolution will be televised and will be fake. Which is exactly what Gil Scott-heron, with his visionary satire, was singing about -- come to think of it.
Is all -- over and out.
reel.deal
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THE LATE GREAT GIL SCOTT-HERON

Unread post by reel.deal »

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Last edited by reel.deal on Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
fbenario
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by fbenario »

Simon, on the new 'Undebunkable' thread, could you please post a link back to the original discussion and analysis of each of your examples? That way every reader can see for himself what this forum's analysis was, including the clues and reasons why each picture is fake, instead of just taking your word for it. Right now the reader has to apply his own analytical abilities - and we already know the average person doesn't have the necessary prowess (or curiosity) to do that.
simonshack
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by simonshack »

Dear FB,

Good idea - I'll do my best (but it's a helluva job! - damn, I wish a had a smart, sweet secretary to help me along! :P )
My current gf is not up to it - not English speaking!...
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