THE "CHATBOX"

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest
Critical Mass
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Critical Mass » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:51 am

Oh dear, the "pre-eminent internet philosopher" of our times apparently went completely nuts a few weeks ago.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O8wX-QpzSA

According to this "master of rational, logical thought" if someone is sceptical of 'tales of Terrorism' then they are "horrible human beings", "worse than vultures or crows", "blackhole hearted scumbags" and "unable to react with sympathy, compassion, concern or grief".


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a95c231FWbE

Stefan displays a range of (fake) emotions whilst conducting his silly rant. He also, incredibly, misuses the "extraordinary evidence required for an extraordinary claim" concept.

I keep meaning to spend some time looking at this San Bernardino thing... thanks Stefan for providing me with some much needed motivation.

Farcevalue
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Farcevalue » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:20 pm

Freedomainradio used to be one of the sites I regularly visited and contributed to, once upon a time (handle:pretzelogik).

After being shouted down in a number of posts pertaining to Apollo, 9/11 and nukes I finally gave it a rest and figured I would leave all the big brained philosophers and critical thinkers to themselves.

There are some good ideas floating around over there, regarding the logical contradictions of the state, extricating oneself from abusive relationships and such, but where fakery is concerned it may as well be JREF.

I did hear the San Bernardino comments; positively cringe-inducing. He recently took a call from a 9/11 researcher that I listened to, as well. The caller was not to the level of media fakery and was still in the A&E for 9/11 Truth and other rabbit trails stage, but seemed genuinely interested in doing the research. He was dismissed with the usual: "Millions of people saw the plane, 3000 people died, hundreds of people would have to have been involved, etc."

I was actually compelled to post again as a result, but there are not many who are out of the matrix at FDR. I don't know what it is that allows the fakery to be visible to some, but it certainly is not intellect. It seems to have a higher incidence among those intimately connected with music, but I have no idea what that means.

simonshack
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by simonshack » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:52 pm

Farcevalue wrote:I don't know what it is that allows the fakery to be visible to some, but it certainly is not intellect. It seems to be intimately connected with music, somehow, but I have no idea what that means.
Could it possibly mean the very meaning of 'intellect' needs to be re-defined? :huh:

I personally have no issues with the current definition. No mention of music, it seems :

"The ability to think in a logical way"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intellect

Anyone unable to do just that - while posing as intellectual opinion-makers - should simply be shunned. They either have an agenda - or are plain stoopid. Hope that sounds logical. <_<

Farcevalue
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Farcevalue » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:37 pm

Here is an example of my latest contribution to the FDR thread about the 9/11 researcher (part of it, anyway. It's evident that the poster holds the conspiracy theorists with only a high school level of education in some disdain. Italics are my responses:
The one thing that strikes me about all these conspiracy theories--and 911 truth most of all--is how incompetent the conspirators would have to be to leave so many loose ends that could be discovered so easily by these basement dwelling weirdoes.

Why would the perpetrators care about loose ends and whether anybody discovered them?

Why even bother to conspire then? Just smack 'em with the iron fist and tell the peasants that this is how it's gonna be!

That was the method until one hundred fifty years ago or so. Then they found the productivity goes through the roof when the peasants think they are free, or can even be president. It takes a bit of doing to keep them satisfied with keeping a quarter of what they produce, but it seems to be working.

Hell, the PTB probably saw fit to uncork a bottle of Armand de Brignac Brut Gold just reading this thread from the site where the world's most critical philosophical minds gather to ruminate.


But it doesn't work if a conspiracy theorist with a public school education can see straight through it, no?

To the contrary, it is working perfectly for them. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if a few people see through it since the agenda is moving forward with little to no resistance. As Stef has pointed out in a few podcasts the enforcement occurs horizontally, those who are able to critically look at the evidence presented (the appalling broadcast footage, the statistical improbabilities of hundreds of convenient coincidences, the pedigree of the cast) have nothing to fear from the perpetrators themselves, as they are shouted down by their peers.

Why anyone accepts any information presented by the media as factual is a mystery, but there are many who accept the bible as fact, so go figure. Comme ci, comme ça. The idea that the media exists to inform, as opposed to distort reality and mold opinion is a fundamental error of assumption.
BTW, Simon - do you have a basement? -_-

ICfreely
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by ICfreely » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:04 pm

Farcevalue wrote: It seems to have a higher incidence among those intimately connected with music, but I have no idea what that means.
Which brings us to...
Musica universalis

Musica universalis (lit. universal music, or music of the spheres) or Harmony of the Spheres is an ancient philosophical concept that regards proportions in the movements of celestial bodies—the Sun, Moon, and planets—as a form of musica (the Medieval Latin term for music). This "music" is not usually thought to be literally audible, but a harmonic, mathematical or religious concept. The idea continued to appeal to thinkers about music until the end of the Renaissance, influencing scholars of many kinds, including humanists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musica_universalis
;)

ICfreely
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by ICfreely » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:57 am

A word to the wise,

Woe be unto the child that is subjected to Baby Einstein/Mozart
For that child shall grow into a Zombie Mason

Critical Mass
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Critical Mass » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:21 am

simonshack wrote: "The ability to think in a logical way"
I suppose Mike Rothschild's "logical" 'skeptoid' post will require updating.

jumpy64
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by jumpy64 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:15 pm

simonshack wrote:I don't like where this thread is going - if anywhere at all. I may unlock it pending a pow-wow with various parties.
Augh, Chief Simonshack, Jumpy Paleface here. I'm in my tepee, waiting for your pow-wow while smoking my calumet.

I expect my enemy, Blackfoot warrior Criticalmass, to be summoned too, for the possible reopening, Manitou willing, of the Multicultural battlefield.

I will keep scouring the horizon for a smoke signal. :P

Image

simonshack
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by simonshack » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:12 am

*

Dear Jumpy,


I was thinking of sparing you some 'public' embarrassment and wait til the two of us got a chance to meet again - and 'scold' you in private. ^_^

However, since you're asking about my prospected pow-wow, I think you'll soon understand why I've decided to call it off. As I went back to review the 'incident' which led me to lock your "Multicultural Agenda" thread, I decided to follow your below recommendation - and read the full article by that "Gedaliah Braun" type who claims to be an American living since many years in Africa.
Jumpy wrote:I’ve read several articles on this in Italian, but I’ve found a pretty comprehensive one in English too, and I recommend everybody to read it in its entirety at https://whitelocust.wordpress.com/moral ... esterners/.
Since Critical Mass pointed out that the "Gedaliah Braun" entity is a suspected pseudonym of a jewish writer - and since your response to CM (who obviously spent a little time actually / & duly double-checking your source material) was incredibly crude and oafish, I believe you fully deserve the 'abstract' spanking I am about to administer upon you (and since you're white and not black, I'm sure you'll grasp the peculiar concept of abstractness intended here :P ).

So, firstly - concerning the possible jewishness of that author (not that this is of central concern - considering the sheer imbecility of this claimed philosophy PhD's writings ) - I'd certainly put my money on that hypothesis, for reasons (and observations) that I will henceforth illustrate. Yes, I hope this will serve as a lesson for you - call me "Chief" if you will.

Let me first get out of the way the fact that, in order to 'get across' and back up his blatant 'black inferiority message', the guy keeps citing selected articles from 'authoritative' publications such as Newsweek, The Guardian and the Chicago Tribune. As a Cluesforum member, Jumpy, you should - for chrissakes - promptly be raising big, waving red flags as to this writer's 'intellectual morality and empathy'. But let's get on : at one point in his article, this claimed 'ethics teacher' (isn't it marvellous how these selfless, empathic white people travel to Africa just to teach Africans our cherished / advanced / well-oiled ethics?...) tells us about a class he had where he asked whether Alfred Dreyfus should've been freed or not. Hold on to your chairs, folks, for THIS is what he writes in this paragraph titled "Moral blindness" (intended as: black people are morally blind):
Moral blindness
Whenever I taught ethics I used the example of Alfred Dreyfus, a Jewish officer in the French Army who was convicted of treason in 1894 even though the authorities knew he was innocent. Admitting their mistake, it was said, would have a disastrous effect on military morale and would cause great social unrest. I would in turn argue that certain things are intrinsically wrong and not just because of their consequences. Even if the results of freeing Dreyfus would be much worse than keeping him in prison, he must be freed, because it is unjust to keep an innocent man in prison.

To my amazement, an entire class in Kenya said without hesitation that he should not be freed. Call me dense if you want, but it was 20 years before the full significance of this began to dawn on me
.
Those evil / un-empathic Africans!...

Now, apart from the utter idiocy of bringing up the ol' 1894 Dreyfus affair in an African classroom, you've gotta ask yourself: WHY? Is this guy jewish, or what? "Dreyfus the martyr! Learn about the poor, persecuted Jew, you heartless Africans!" To add insult to injury (and idiocy), he then goes on to type this quite imbecilic mumbo-jumbo "conclusion" - the sort of which only cretinous 'western-world intellectuals' might find intelligent to write:

"Africans, I believe, may generally lack the concepts of subjunctivity and counterfactuality."

That's right, Jumpy: "subjunctivity and counterfactuality". Print those words on a sheet of paper - and stick it on your bathroom wall, as a defecating aid. This is sound and empathic medical advice from your ol' friend Simon.

And here's when it gets troooly interesting : at some point in his article, our Gedaliah Braun writer mentions - and 'makes a point of' - the "AMY BIEHL" affair (which I very vaguely remember from my visit to South Africa several years ago). I had never looked into it - but I've done so today - so here's what I found out. First, let me quote a sentence from Braun's article:

"In 1993, Amy Biehl, a 26-year-old American on a Fulbright scholarship, was living in South Africa, where she spent most of her time in black townships helping blacks. One day when she was driving three African friends home, young blacks stopped the car, dragged her out, and killed her because she was white."
Well, as always seems to be the case with these 'ultra-precious' white American lives, an AMY BIEHL FOUNDATION was set up - headed by the alleged parents (Peter and Linda) of this purported 'white apartheid martyr girl'.

Here's from CBS News:
"To keep her memory alive, they established a nonprofit agency, the Amy Biehl Foundation. With $500,000 in grants, donations and their own money, they have sponsored welding classes and after-school programs, including music, art and tutorials for those who want to go to college. (...) Since 60 Minutes first aired its story, the Amy Biehl Foundation has received more than $1 million in aid from the U.S. government. [!!!] The Biehls are spreading their programs and bakeries to seven other poor areas."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amys-story/

Fantastic, isn't it? As CBS aired the story, the US government suddenly "woke up" to the plight of the BIEHL couple, handing them $1M.
THANK YOU, CBS! YOU SHOULD GET AN "EMPATHY NOBEL PRIZE"!

Peter and Linda BIEHL - the happy couple promoting empathy and forgiveness in South Africa :
Image

"Amy Biehl" ... at alleged Stanford University graduation :
(Note: we all know here at Cluesforum that Stanford University is perhaps the N°1 'fakery institution' in the USA)
Image

"Amy Biehl" ( a few years later) ?
ImageImage

If you only google "THE STORY OF AMY BIEHL" (I won't post everything I've read about it - it would make for a tedious read) you'll see how this tale is all about the "wonderful and inspiring story of humanitarian empathy and "forgiveness" by this grief-stricken, white (jewish?) American couple who decide to move to South Africa following their daughter's death and - and even 'adopting' / hiring into their 'black community-friendly bakery business' two of their (four) daughter's supposed killers (all sentenced to 18 years - but all released after just 4 years!) - whereas the other two killers have been (according to MSM) "reported as rapists - following their release - and have now disappeared"... :rolleyes:


So, you may ask: where do Peter and Linda get invited to talk about their 'inspiring story of EMPATHY"? Well, here's from the LA Times:
"Amy Biehl's Parents to Speak Today on Forgiveness"

Congregation B'nai Israel of Tustin will present, as a prelude to its Selichot services today, a program titled "Qualities of Mercy: a True Story of Forgiveness" with Peter and Linda Biehl.

The Biehls will discuss their involvement in South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission and their commitment to helping black South Africans after the killing of their daughter, Amy, in 1993. An 18-minute film clip will be shown from the Academy Award-nominated documentary "Long Night's Journey into Day."

The synagogue also will have an open house Sunday from 10 a.m. to noon. Representatives from the synagogue's religious school, preschool, and board of directors will be there to meet prospective members and answer questions.

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/sep/08/local/me-43526
I'm sure you can now sense for yourself, dear Jumpy, the tragic irony of your ill-conceived, ill-researched and ill-focused efforts to 'protect the white race from the evils of this world'. Black people, with all their problems already - what with just being black in a viciously arrogant "white / jewish-dominated world", have very little to do with the insanity (AND UTTER LACK OF HUMAN EMPATHY) against which we are fighting against here on this forum.

So no, Jumpy, I won't unlock that "Multicultural Agenda" thread of yours - since you seem to be embarking into some sort of 'white-is-best' / Donald Trumpish campaign which frankly disturbs me. And just to end on a personal note: I can tell you that, when I was in Burkina Faso (once one of the economically poorest countries of this planet), I clearly remember thinking - as I met with native / black educated young city folks / students : "wow, these guys and gals are generally FAR sharper, open-minded and knowledgeable than the average Italian university student!"

My "white forgiveness" doesn't stretch as far as to unlock that thread of yours, Jumpy. I'm sure you'll understand.

Now go and watch this fine example of white/black intellectual interaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrsSyTaxqCU

simonshack
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by simonshack » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:36 am

Oh - and look here:
"In 1999, Biehl's parents were honored with the Aline and Norman Felton Humanitarian Award".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Biehl
Who's Norman Felton?
"Norman Francis Felton (April 29, 1913 – June 25, 2012) was a British-born American television producer, known for his involvement in shows such as The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and Dr. Kildare, both on NBC."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Felton

Norman Felton lent his name to multiple awards:

The Death Penalty Focus organization's Aline and Norman Felton Humanitarian Award
Producers Guild of America's Norman Felton Producer of the Year Award
Image

The above Wikipedia page goes on to say that Norman Felton's daughter Aline, her husband David Berkley, and their nine-month-old daughter, Jessicca, were murdered December 18, 1982 in Detroit near Wayne State Medical Center where David was a medical student.

Critical Mass
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Critical Mass » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:34 am

In defence of jumpy I will point out he raises some potentially valid points. For instance it may be interesting to explore these, clearly vile, "black rappers" (Who are they? Who promoted them? Where are they now? Are there real black people trying to counter them?) instead he decided to promote an extraordinary claim (to put it nicely) regarding all Africans.

The fact his 'evidence' to back that claim up was likely Jewish nonsense is certainly ironic however even if "Gedaliah Braun" were a real person it clearly wasn't "an authoritative and well documented point of view based on much deeper and wider experience" for just some of the reasons I stated*.

I think jumpy you may even be onto something in the grander sense. There is no doubt the Nutwork seem to promote infighting amongst the "99%" (it is undoubtedly a tragedy that the 99%, of all races, seem to be so easy to manipulate) & the worlds truly screwed up "economic system" appears to be a major driving force for enabling mass immigration.

However your inability to be more precise with your writing, your apparent lack of quite basic 'red flags' & an inability to think critically about your own, now quite obvious, personal biases has repeatedly resulted in your interesting points getting lost.






* i.e. after "decades" in Africa he never met a religious African? Did the women of Africa repeatedly break their 'promises' and refuse to call him? Who is he? etc

jumpy64
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by jumpy64 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:46 am

Critical Mass wrote:In defence of jumpy I will point out he raises some potentially valid points. [...]

However your inability to be more precise with your writing, your apparent lack of quite basic 'red flags' & an inability to think critically about your own, now quite obvious, personal biases has repeatedly resulted in your interesting points getting lost.
Thank you, Critical Mass!

I don't know if you care about this - I hope you do, though :) - but you've just gained my respect with this last post of yours.

Coming to the defence of an apparently defeated "adversary", as you've just done when you could have kept going at me instead, is the most honorable thing to do, and I greatly appreciate your having done it, Sir.

And since Simon has always had my respect, now I'm very happy to be able to respond not to one but to two people I respect.

So what I'm asking to you and Simon, and to everybody else here, is just to give me the time to respond and to defend not myself, because I don't have an image of myself to defend here (or I don't care about it anyway), but my points of view, which may be wrong (although I'm not convinced of that yet) but are totally in good faith and worth debating IMHO.

I've already started writing my response to Simon's observations, which will include also some of your observations, but it will me take some time, also because I'm pretty busy with other things these days.

I only care about the Truth being spoken, and if I'm not doing this here, I won't be resentful towards those who will expose possible fallacies in my reasoning. On the contrary, I will be grateful to them, whoever they may be, including people who so far I have perceived as mostly attacking me personally, instead of debating my points of view.

So have just a little more patience with me, please, and we'll get to the bottom of this, and the Truth will hopefully prevail in the end.

jumpy64
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by jumpy64 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:11 pm

I’m back. :)

Nothing else has been posted on this chatbox today after my previous post, apparently, but I don’t want to assume that you were all waiting for me here. Maybe something big has happened in the world today and I’m not aware of it, having been with my head to this post practically the whole day… Let’s begin, anyway.

So, dear Simon,

I must admit that I’ve started reading your post with a certain apprehension, because knowing your prodigious ability as a genius researcher, I thought you had found irrefutable refutations – pun intended ;) – to Braun’s (or Valberg’s, or whatever the hell his real name is) main points in the article I quoted in the “Multicultural” thread.

But as I said in my previous response to Critical Mass, I only care about the Truth, so if I’m inadvertently pushing a lie, I’d be ultimately happy to discover this myself.

That’s why I was more disappointed than relieved when I read that you had concentrated your refutation efforts on something I had considered totally marginal and unworthy of special attention in the article in question, i.e. the Amy Biehl story. I didn’t even remember the name of this (sim)girl!

Anyway, I don’t doubt it’s a fake story, and I think you’ve conclusively demonstrated this in your posts (you’re a master at this, as we all know very well here, and I wouldn’t even dream of debating you on the subject of fakery), but as I said it’s simply something that I had not considered relevant in the article.

Of course, it could be relevant in the sense that Braun used it as an example of “a pattern of behavior and thinking that cannot be wished away, and offer additional support for my claim that Africans are deficient in moral consciousness”.

But he gives also other apparently more convincing examples of this, like in the following quote:
During the apartheid era, black activists used to kill traitors and enemies by “necklacing” them. An old tire was put around the victim’s neck, filled with gasoline, and—but it is best to let an eye-witness describe what happened next:

“The petrol-filled tyre is jammed on your shoulders and a lighter is placed within reach . … Your fingers are broken, needles are pushed up your nose and you are tortured until you put the lighter to the petrol yourself.” (Citizen; “SA’s New Nazis,” August 10, 1993, p.18.)

The author of an article in the Chicago Tribune, describing the equally gruesome way the Hutu killed Tutsi in the Burundi massacres, marveled at “the ecstasy of killing, the lust for blood; this is the most horrible thought. It’s beyond my reach.” (“Hutu Killers Danced In Blood Of Victims, Videotapes Show,” Chicago Tribune, September 14, 1995, p.8.) The lack of any moral sense is further evidenced by their having videotaped their crimes, “apparently want[ing] to record … [them] for posterity.” Unlike Nazi war criminals, who hid their deeds, these people apparently took pride in their work.
Are all these claims fake too? Well, maybe we can investigate them more in depth, of course, like the many other massacres unfortunately purported to have been perpetrated by Black people themselves in the dark continent also in recent times. Or are we supposed to discard any such claim altogether because they come from “official” sources like the Chicago Tribune or others? Is every little thing the printed media say aprioristically fake? By that token, I’m afraid we should accept only what’s written on Cluesforum…

Anyway, I didn’t write that all Africans are murderous thugs like these (fake?) “black activists”. I only wrote that
I’m afraid that the “nearly” part may concern at least, for example, the African traditional culture, which is conspicuously absent in the Wikipedia article on the Golden Rule at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule , and in which the fundamental concept of empathy appears to be generally lacking, also because African languages and cultures seem to be extremely weak, if not totally lacking, in abstract thinking.


With the “nearly” part, I was referring to the fact that the quoted Wikipedia article, which says that the concept of a Golden Rule or "ethic of reciprocity" as a moral maxim or principle of altruism found in nearly every human culture and religion.

I actually read the article and I couldn’t find any reference to the African culture. To be sure, I even searched the page for the word “African” and “Africa”, and I couldn’t find any mention of those terms. But you don’t have to trust me, of course; you can go and look for yourself, and possibly let me know if the “Search in this page” function of my Opera browser doesn’t work properly.

I know that Wikipedia is often unreliable on certain things – like most of what concerns the Jews, for example – but does this mean that it is totally unreliable on everything? And if there are references to the Golden Rule in African culture and traditions, why would they want to hide them?

Now, back to what I wrote in my post on page 4 of the “Multicultural” thread:
I’ve read several articles on this in Italian, but I’ve found a pretty comprehensive one in English too, and I recommend everybody to read it in its entirety at https://whitelocust.wordpress.com/moral ... esterners/

The basic argument - expounded by Gedaliah Braun, an American scholar who taught philosophy in several African universities from 1976 to 1988 and has lived in South Africa since then - is that African languages are composed by a few hundreds or thousands of words that do not allow people who speak them to express empathy and the abstract thinking empathy is based on. I mean, to apply the Golden Rule, you have to be able to think in abstract terms and imagine yourself in somebody else’s shoes, and traditional African languages in general do not give their speakers even the means to do so.
So this is essentially the part of Braun’s claim I found reasonable. Is it debatable? Of course! Most things are. But is it outlandish or “deranged”? Well, I still don’t think so.

Anyway, in hindsight, I probably made a mistake here. By recommending to read the article “in its entirety”, I may have given the impression that I supported everything the author wrote in it, and I’m willing to apologize for this. In fact, when I decided to quote it, I thought of extrapolating all its parts that seemed valid to me, but then I thought that, since I wanted to make a more general point in that post, doing so would have taken too much space, and I planned to do it in a following post, after members here had had the opportunity to read the whole article and to communicate their own impressions or reactions to it.

Another mistake, apparently, because I didn’t imagine the reactions could have been so strong as to create what ultimately led to the locking of the whole thread.

In any case, I’m still willing to do what I had planned to do, i.e. quoting all the parts of the article that I consider valid and go into them more deeply, excluding the rest (and especially the media fakery parts, of course).

But since we’re at it, I can start here by pointing at the first argument that I find particularly worth exploring, and by asking some relevant questions.

For example, is it true that African languages are composed by a few hundreds or thousands of words that do not allow people who speak them to express empathy and the abstract thinking empathy is based on?

I’m researching this more in depth myself, and I’m willing to post my findings in this forum, if there is interest about them and if I will be pointed to an appropriate thread to do so, since Simon doesn’t seem to be willing to unlock the “Multicultural” one.

But now, right off the bat, I’d just like to say that what I meant is that African culture and tradition probably don’t give Africans the appropriate means to express and develop thoughts and emotions based on concepts that, like empathy and abstract thinking, seem to not even have adequate words to represent them.

And then, when they are given the adequate linguistic and cultural means to do so, many Africans develop their thought and emotional processes to the level of abstract thinking required for empathy and become like the sharp, open minded and knowledgeable “Black educated young city folks / students” that Simon met in Burkina Faso.

But what seems to me is that they could do this thanks much more to the Western culture that colonized them than to their indigenous culture. In fact, the official language of Burkina Faso is French, and French, I assume, was also the language in which Simon was able to communicate with them.

So this means that, when they came into contact with the Western culture, African people were not only exploited, as it’s continuously and exclusively emphasized in Jewish anti-White propaganda, but also given something precious with which to grow and develop as human beings.

Because it seems demonstrable to me that, when left to their own culture and traditions, African people have continued living in a pretty primitive fashion, like they used to before coming into contact with the White man. But this too is open to a factual debate, of course.

As it is open to debate an interesting point that Critical Mass raises:
I've lived in Africa ... admittedly not for "decades" but for a few years and I find it inconceivable that he never met an African who believes in magic, spirits, curses & blessings... all of which are 'abstract' under his own definition.

Heck Africa is world famous for "witch doctors" (sangoma/inyanga in South Africa) yet he never met an African who didn't believe or talk about something that wasn't real? That's simply not credible.
That’s an interesting issue to explore, I think. Personally, in my admittedly limited experience with English and Italian-speaking African people I’ve met both in Italy and abroad (but not in Africa, where I’ve never been), I have never discussed anything related to magic and spirits, but from documentaries I’ve seen and things I’ve read, it seems to me that this things, that we tend to consider abstract, are very real for them. And maybe they really are, and they can feel them in ways that we have forgotten. I don’t know, but I consider that a possibility too.

See, I’m not saying that nothing good can come from Africa and Black people. On the contrary, I think we can learn from them things we may have generally forgotten, like their capacity to perceive things and energies that aren’t maybe “material” in the sense we ascribe to this term, but nonetheless real and powerful. Or their courage, their willingness and ability to fight, and their capacity to accept what’s in the present moment, without mentally resisting to it. All things that I consider very important, by the way, especially in a “spiritual” sense.

Other things they can learn from us (or at least refine), like empathy and abstract thinking for example, and in fact many Africans have already learnt them, IMHO thanks to the Western influences that, willingly or not, they have received, and I think they weren’t all bad and oppressive as our mind controllers would want us to believe.

Somebody disagrees with this? Fine, it can be debated, and everybody can learn something from an open debate, I think. But is such a claim so outlandish that it can’t even be suggested? I don’t think so.

As I’ve said already at least a couple of times, I’m all for spontaneous exchanges between different cultures, because I think we can all grow through them, even though they may cause conflicts too.

But this is not what I see happening with this “multicultural” psyop – which has been aptly defined as “demographic engineering” by Painterman – in which people mainly from African and Middle-Eastern countries are forced to emigrate and people from Western European countries are forced to accept them, all under false pretenses created by an essentially Jewish elite that seems to me hell-bent on destroying Western civilization to acquire their coveted supremacy over the entire world.

People from different cultures are being weaponized by this hostile Jewish elite that wants them to come to Europe and other Western countries not to integrate and to learn from Western people, as could be desirable, but to take back from them what they’ve been manipulated to believe it’s rightfully theirs, while maybe it’s not.

In short, I think the multicultural invasion is essentially an attack against not only the creators of Western civilization, but also people that, like Simon’s friends in Burkina Faso, have benefited from it.

This is my point of view, at least. Is it legitimate? Or can it at least be debated here, since it involves brainwashing by the media also through media fakery? (In fact, two other examples of media fakery aimed at brainwashing people into accepting the multicultural invasion have come to my mind recently, in addition to the already quoted Utoya and Charleston psyops: the Lampedusa “Boat people tragedy”, and the famous photo of the “dead” Syrian kid Aylan on a Turkish shoreline.)

I’m convinced that it is a legitimate point of view, and that it can – or actually I think it absolutely should – be debated here on Cluesforum. And if I’m not doing it well enough, well please forgive me, but I’m doing my best. I’m sure everything can be improved, and I’m always perfectly willing to learn.

So I’m sorry if I have come out as “crude” or even “oafish” sometimes, as Simon says. I honestly don’t understand when, since I’ve always been very careful not to offend anyone here, but it doesn’t matter, because I don’t want to waste any more time in other pointless controversies. Maybe I’ve unknowingly let my emotions get in the way, because as an empathic person, I feel this trait has been shamelessly taken advantage of, in me as in many other good Western people, by the hostile Jewish elite, so I’m sorry if I have done or said something inappropriate.

I’ll just say, for honesty sake, that my conscience is clear and that I don’t feel embarrassed for anything, nor that I have received a public “spanking”, however “abstract” :D . But in any case, I think a spanking from Simon Shack is not something to be ashamed for. I won’t go as far as to say that it’s an honor, either, but let’s say that… it doesn’t hurt :) .

The only really important thing for me here is to know from you first and foremost, Simon, but also from Critical Mass and any other member here, if you think the “multicultural” issues I’m raising are worthy to continue being debated in CF or not, possibly in more effective ways. After all, the fact that I started a thread on these issues certainly doesn’t mean that I have an “exclusive” on them, so I’ll be more than happy to see other people addressing them better than me. I like to listen even more than to talk, but I’ve noticed that even here most people seem to prefer to remain silent on certain “controversial” issues…

Anyway, whatever you will decide on this, I will remain convinced that these “multicultural” issues – like the absolutely interconnected “Jewish Question” – are essential, but I can’t impose them on people who don’t want to listen.

Well, thank you for having listened to me so far, at least.

ICfreely
Member
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:41 pm

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by ICfreely » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:36 am

Oh Great GURU who walks Above The Clouds, I invoke thee again to show Paleface Warrior thy mighty force!

Above The Clouds

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucvta7xDo_4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucvta7xDo_4

"It has come to our attention that a mysterious force is LOOSE
…somewhere in outer space." :ph34r:

"The mysteries of creation are there." :huh:

"Up in the sky?" :ph34r:
"Up in the sky."

"The moon and the planets are there.
And new hopes for knowledge and peace are there.
And therefore as we set sail; we ask God's blessing --
on the most hazardous, and dangerous, and greatest adventure
of which man has ever embarked."

"Prepared for liftoff." B)

I self Lord and Master shall bring disaster to evil factors
Demonic chapters, shall be captured by Kings


Flabbergasted
Moderator
Posts: 878
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:19 am

Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:26 am

Just a couple of short comments, during a break from work...
jumpy64 wrote:...an essentially Jewish elite that seems to me hell-bent on destroying Western civilization...
Destroying Western civilization is not a big stretch. White European societies have basically committed suicide by embracing wholesale apostasy, birth control/abortion, feminism/divorce/emasculation, moral/religious relativism and other self-destructive attitudes. Even though these "ideals" have been enthusiastically promoted by subversive elements, they have mostly found fertile ground among White Europeans. Europeans have all but contracepted themselves out of existence. The blame -- and perhaps the disastrous effects as well -- seem to be pretty equally distributed between promoters and adopters.
In the oneness of allness, I am, in some degree or aspect, guilty of, or infected with, or suffering from, everything that I attack (The Complete Books of Charles Fort, p.828).
jumpy64 wrote:For example, is it true that African languages are composed by a few hundreds or thousands of words that do not allow people who speak them to express empathy and the abstract thinking empathy is based on?
Your analysis of African languages is biased by a eurocentric anthropological outlook. Having developed in a climate of rationalism and sentimentalism, modern Western languages are analytical and prosaic, thus as appropriate for the purposes of business and entertainment as they are unfit for liturgical/sacred use. The only way to find out how deep African languages and thought reach into the realm of the abstract and the sublime is by living among Africans, in Africa, and wholeheartedly putting on their cultural and linguistic head dress.

By the way, the number of words in a language is an ambiguous measure of complexity. For example, the vedic monosyllable AUM originally had 52 pronunciations/intonations, with many layers of meaning.

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