Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it really?

Global War deceptions & mass manipulation, fear-mongering terror schemes and propaganda in the Age of the Bomb

Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby corsarino on August 4th, 2011, 6:02 pm

Renzo Rossellini[13], un’ora prima dell’agguato di via Fani, ovvero poco dopo le 08 del mattino del 16 marzo, su Radio Città Futura, dava la notizia di un’azione terroristica compiuta ai danni dell’On. Moro.

Just one hour before the attack in Via Fani, ( shortly after 08 am on March 16), on "Radio Città Futura", Renzo Rossellini [13] gave the news of a terrorist attack carried out against the Hon. Moro.


This is an other link to the WWII period when Renzo and Roberto Rossellini directed the movie " Roma città aperta".

The neorealism was a must for the P.W.B. (Psycological Warfare Branch), acted by Allied Forces.

http://www.internetitaliano.com/cultura/neorealismo-dolce-vita.php
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby simonshack on August 5th, 2011, 2:58 am

nonhocapito wrote:This is very interesting, I especially liked the detail of the "body in the trunk". Consider that one year before the kidnapping of Moro, the Rote-Armee Fraktion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_armee_fraktion, the german equivalent of the Red Brigades, kidnapped Hanns Martin Schleyer, one of the most powerful industrialists of west germany, kept him in captivity for a while, and then let his dead body to be found in the trunk of a car. (During the operation, they also managed to spill the blood over to the Palestinians by organizing the hijacking of a plane to Somalia in their name.)

In other words, the "body in the trunk" was an experimented image, probably studied to carry the most traumatizing, suffocating, ancestral and subliminal meanings best suited for such mass psy-op.


Aldo Moro was a big man:
Image

Here I have tried to place him into the original Renault 4 he was supposedly found in:
Image
http://www.vuotoaperdere.org/dblog/arti ... rticolo=62

Image
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby corsarino on August 5th, 2011, 2:20 pm

I think he was 1,78 m tall.

I don't have the courage to think that Via Caetani was a fake theater.

On the other hand I am sure that moving the body from Via Caetani was contrary to Italian Law.

First a permission from a judge was necessary.

Second it is illegal move a dead body by ambulace (of Firefighters).
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby nonhocapito on August 8th, 2011, 2:50 pm

I am not sure Moro was a "big man". Maybe he had a head smaller than average so that's why his body looks so big in that photo. I'm trying to find information about his height but so far no luck.

In any case, the R4 was "58.5 in | 1486 mm" wide (http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/defa ... D=1742&i=2), and we can observe in this picture how not only the neck but the legs are heavily bended to fit into the r4 trunk:

Image

You can see Moro's feet pressing against the buttocks. Was he kneeling when he was killed, and then from that position the body was lied down? Hard to tell. And why was a "Renault 4" picked for this job? The thing is, the Red Renault 4 was one of cars of choice among the far-left "comrades" in those years. It was picked as part of the psy-op, to convey the idea of the "self-made" Red brigades. The fact that Moro hardly fits in the trunk certainly proves that "real" Red Brigades (if -lol- such a thing existed in 1978) would have never picked such an unfit, conspicuous vehicle to host Moro's body into it.
In any case, if I am not completely off, it seems to me that a 1,75+ man fitting into a 1,40~ trunk would have to bend legs and neck more or less like we see here. It's like fitting into a short two-seats couch, which is not unthinkable.

What if Moro was alive (maybe heavily sedated) in that trunk, and what if his life had been spared upon the condition that he accepted to disappear into some monastery and pretended he was dead? This is 100% speculation, of course... besides it wouldn't make much difference in the story... As to complete fakery (imagining a fake kidnapping since the beginning), there are many elements to consider:

1) Moro's wife: Almost alone, during the captivity she was vocal against the lack of energy in the investigation efforts for the liberation of Moro, and afterwards accused the government, the italian establishment, her husband's party, and "foreign" and "high-up" entities of being behind her husband's death. She never once accepted the official "Red brigades" story, nor she ever decided to go the "quiet" way. She was the epitome of the italian christian devout wife who is supposed to shut up and let men take decisions, and yet she set quite an example in those days and put thoughts into everyone's heads.
It doesn't seem like a textbook vicsim-relative-actor behavior. Without Moro's family, the nation wouldn't be where it is today in the knowledge that the Red brigades were manipulated and used and even invented (maybe since 1970 by Paris-based agent Corrado Simioni and his future "Hyperion" clan) by much higher and globalist agents.

2) Even though large parts of the Moro affair feel scripted, and feel like "literature", to tell it with Sciascia, the Moro case had five long trial proceedings in Italy in the subsequent 20 years. So in this regards it is no 9/11. The amount of evidence, witness reports, affidavits, journalistic research, memorial, books and movies spawned around this case in the following decades is simply astounding. I'm obviously not saying that all this "evidence" leads to the truth (quite the contrary), but there is enough accidental evidence in there, including so many errors, slip-ups, and double-games, to conclude that the operation was most likely not based on fakery (I mean complete fakery). We are not dealing with as much sloppiness and lack of material and deliberate confusion, as much as we seem to deal with cover-ups, underground battles and false leads that generate a disproportionate amount of contradictions.

3) A read of the 90+ letters wrote by Moro when in captivity (most of them never sent, and found without order and incomplete years later) can give you a feeling that you are in presence of a real person expressing real feelings. At least they do so for me. Especially the letters to his daughters and son, to the wife, are incredibly moving to the point of being hearth-breaking. But aside of one's personal reactions to this read (which I strongly recommend to those who can read italian), Moro's letters sport none of the hollow, copy-paste, military-style messages of nowadays vicsim memorials.

As to the ambulance carrying away the body of Moro: yes possibly that is strange (although Italy in the 70s was not known for its strict adherence to protocols and laws). Like strange are the contradictions of this priest who supposedly gave the last rites to Moro with or without the trunk door open.
But certainly via Caetani was a theater. The artificers were an act; the politicians coming from the Headquarters of PCI and DC were an act; the TV not being allowed in and filming from afar was an act etc etc. Let's not forget how the "Moro operation" was a psy-op: and after all the errors and changes of plan that obviously happened during the captivity, now it was the time to let the scripts really take over and package a ready-made interpretation of reality. Caetani is the final act, the imaginary exit wanted by the murderers of Moro, but as a scenario it does not tell the whole messed-up story.

More on this soon :)
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby fred on August 8th, 2011, 4:44 pm

Very interesting reading on this thread.

I have an anecdote to share about Webster Tarpley. Someone I trust got to talking to Mr Tarpley after a lecture and mentioned having been in the the Marine Corps, to which Mr Tarpley claimed to be CIA.

Tarpley is obviously a very bright guy. I have a hard time believing that after graduating from Princeton the best job he could get was as a reporter for Lyndon LaRouche. It seems like his cover modus operendi is to take credit for writing some important book in Italian that is pretty much unknown to people in the USA. It reminds me of the Andrew Lowe Watson story [or Ace Baker / Clair Marlo the world's 2nd most famous female record producer you've never heard of] about being a famous musician, but only famous in Germany, or Japan, or someplace far away from home, and to list credits for other people's work.

The conceptual framework of Tarpley's Synthetic Terrorism is excellent, but rather than expose the media fakery and government involvement, he shifts blame to a shadowy rogue network who threatens the President and Vice President.

I have an idea about the goats, and the 11 bullets and that sort of thing that I would like to float.

Is P2 really a Masonic Lodge, or is it just a cover for the Italian Secret Service, the CIA, NATO etc?

Could your average Freemason from Minnesota or Brighton just walk in to the Lodge, give the secret handshake, and attend meetings with all of these movers and shakers of Italian Politics?

P2 isn't really all that secret because people keep writing books about it, former Italian politicians keep talking about it, etc. Unless goats feature prominently on Italian construction fences, it seems to me that this is pretty blatant advertising for Masonic involvement recognizable even by non-Masons. Maybe they're all really proud of being Masons and they like to leave their bloody fingerprints all over crime scenes, or maybe the plan was to expose P2 all along as kind of scapegoat for state involvement.

I'm no expert on Aldo Moro, but in the simplest terms, was it the Freemasons who wanted Aldo Moro dead because he posed a grave a threat to Freemasonry; or was it NATO, the CIA, and the Italian Secret Service who wanted Moro dead?

It seems to me that this P2 thing is really "a story within a story" and that the plan was to blame Moro's death first on The Red Brigades, and then on Masonic P2 Fascists. This would follow a pattern we see of the centrist "NWO" gang seeking to vilify leftists and rightists.

We get a right-wing McVeigh super-villian, and a left-wing Unabomber super-villian.

The official story 30 years ago was that Moro was killed by The Red Brigades, and now the "alternative" official story is that he was killed by Fascists operating out of the P2 Lodge. Commie Terrorists or the Fascist Masonic Illuminati, take your pick. From what little I've read on this, I can't imagine why either group needs this Moro guy dead.

If anything, Moro would have been a threat to other Centrist politicians, by occupying a political space that the Centrists wanted, no?
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby corsarino on August 8th, 2011, 7:06 pm

Webster Tarpley was a Fullbright Scholar.

I know other Fullbright people; very bright ones!

He is a Phi Beta Kappa.

He "was" my "maestro" of dietrology.

I follow Webster's "Pista inglese" (English clues) for Moro case.

Like Mattei, Mussolini, Pasolini and so on.

My other "maestro" was Peter Tompkins, aka Federico Caetani a OSS man.

P2 Lodge was a list of "only" italian names to be presented to public for only Italian blaming.

People in that Lodge never meet together; often they were opposite each other; but they were under an unique Atlantic Command and Control Centre.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby nonhocapito on August 8th, 2011, 9:20 pm

Fred and corsarino, I'll try to respond to both your very interesting points. (BTW I never read Tarpley, nor ever heard of him before I think I heard Alex Jones mention him. All my information on this subject comes from italian researchers).

The P2 was under the control of a central headquarter (in their words) and Licio Gelli, the "venerable" organizer (who started his career double dealing with nazis and the CIA during WWII) was certainly reporting back to base, which were not italian interests. He was active in U.S. circles, and he also dealt with Argentina and latin america a lot, in support of pro-USA dictatorships in the area.

When the p2 lodge was blown wide open in 1981, nobody believed it was an "all-italian" operation. The pro-Atlantic character of the thing was immediately obvious. P2 was not a "fascist" operation... It had "fascists" in it like it had conservatives and anti-communists of different tendencies. With today's lingo, I would call p2 a "globalist" group, that was anti-communist in the 70s just like it would be anti-islam and pro-israel today. It's just a glue to keep the powerful thugs together.

The later discovery of Gladio, and of how both would fit in the Moro case, made clearer how the p2 was probably a product of Kissinger's strategy "destabilize to stabilize". Moro was a direct enemy for them (not for the red brigades) because he imagined Italy more independent from the blocks than it was allowed to be.

The fortunes of p2, from 1965 to 1981, coincide with the most intense false-flag terror activity on italian soil. High ranks if not heads of mafia, secret service, media, the military were in the p2. 2 + 2 = ... :lol:

Apparently (I will tell this story quoting sources more exactly another time) P2 was not only key for the control of Italy but for the whole Mediterranean. The upper entity above p2, that contained all the names that were too sensitive to be kept in the P2 lists (used for day-to-day italian operations of control and deceit), was the "Montecarlo lodge". The lists of the Montecarlo lodge were never discovered.

As I suggested in another thread, i think p2 was used to guarantee fidelity of members because its power was based on favors and blackmail. I think masonic lodges are little more than a pretty good system to control elites, which is one of the reasons masonic lodges exist everywhere. You help members in their dirty wishes, and they will forever work for you. You will not make them sweat either.

P2 was not a regular lodge, though, that's for sure. It was "secret"; it had no headquarters; it had thousands of members; the members didn't know each other, and they were not called for meetings.

If you think about it, nothing is easier to control a masonic lodge that has no meetings and is secret. But even if it had meetings, it doesn't mean crucial topics were decided during meetings. A masonic lodge exists not to take real decisions but to exercise control and enforce fidelity on its members. Decisions are taken elsewhere.

The p2 was divided into territorial groups, plus a central group, where all the heads of the italian secret services and the CIA agents were. It also had a "crucial" media group (the group "17"), where journalists, writers and future tycoons were. Silvio Berlusconi, incidentally, was a prominent member of group "17".

There is no real reason to think that the p2 was just a decoy. All the contrary, I think people involved in it were too high ups to be used as decoys, considering that many, like Berlusconi, are still there in the italian high ranks, and thriving in power too.

The story of how the p2 was discovered is interesting too, because apparently the discovery was let happen. Perhaps the organization, or Gelli himself, was becoming too powerful and too dangerous, and probably from Washington it was deemed it had served its purpose. But I am sure its equivalent, in other forms, is still operational today, on different and similar tasks.
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby simonshack on August 9th, 2011, 2:33 am

Dear Nonhocapito - just a thought:

On page 1 of this thread you rightly reminded us of Henry Kissinger's dislike of Aldo Moro:
Image
Niceface Aldo Moro (left) and Fuckface Henry Kissinger (right)

Well, Henry is still alive, apparently. I suggest he should be interrogated - or if everything else fails - waterboarded.
As you know, I am against any form of torture - by principle. But under grave instances such as these (a living man suspected for over 40 years to have ordered the killings of thousands of people) I would allow this special interrogation to be carried out. Quite honestly, as a Norwegian/Swede, I'd certainly support the waterboarding of this former Nobel Peace Prize recipient (a Norwegian institution founded by Alfred Nobel, the Swedish inventor of dynamite...)
Image

I might just open a poll about this subject:

Do you support the waterboarding of Henry Kissinger?

YES ..........X
NO............X
Don't know....X
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby pshea38 on August 9th, 2011, 4:22 am

simonshack wrote:
Well, Henry is still alive, apparently. I suggest he should be interrogated - or if everything else fails - waterboarded.
As you know, I am against any form of torture - by principle. But under grave instances such as these (a living man suspected for over 40 years to have ordered the killings of thousands of people) I would allow this special interrogation to be carried out. Quite honestly, as a Norwegian/Swede, I'd certainly support the waterboarding of this former Nobel Peace Prize recipient (an institution founded by Alfred Nobel, the Swedish inventor of dynamite...)
Image



Simon, I am surprised at you! How uncivilised and uncouth a suggestion!

Myself, I would simply invite him to take a seat,
so that we could sort shit out. :D

Image
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby fred on August 9th, 2011, 6:10 am

True or False:

Shortly after James Woolsey was appointed head of the Central Intelligence Agency, a certain Stanford frat brother of Woolsey called up and pretended to be Henry Kissinger for about 20 minutes before breaking character and letting Director Woolsey in on the joke.

*cough*
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby pov603 on August 9th, 2011, 10:55 am

Re: Water-boarding of Kissinger
The US administration under GWB did not regard water-boarding as 'torture' so i would happily introduce Kissinger and GWB to this form of 'questioning' without fear of any reprisals... :ph34r:
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby nonhocapito on August 9th, 2011, 4:13 pm

simonshack wrote:Well, Henry is still alive, apparently. I suggest he should be interrogated - or if everything else fails - waterboarded.
As you know, I am against any form of torture - by principle. But under grave instances such as these (a living man suspected for over 40 years to have ordered the killings of thousands of people) I would allow this special interrogation to be carried out. Quite honestly, as a Norwegian/Swede, I'd certainly support the waterboarding of this former Nobel Peace Prize recipient (a Norwegian institution founded by Alfred Nobel, the Swedish inventor of dynamite...)


Dear Simon, waterboarding Kissinger is cool, why not? :D
In this case I think it should be applied the ever good "you want it? you go first" principle.
OK I made the principle up, but i find it very logic. :) It certainly should be advocated against anyone promoting torture, death, eugenicist control and war from behind a desk.

"There's too many people on the planet! I think we should reduce human popul..."
"OK, agreed. You go first. Next!"
:P
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby nonhocapito on August 13th, 2011, 1:21 am

Just a brief note. Today I noticed parked in one of the streets in my little town a red Renault 4, that I had seen already previously around. I walked close to it and looked at the closed trunk. I must admit it was pretty puzzling. All of a sudden the trunk, at least closed, looked incredibly small for anyone to fit in.

So, more on the R4 trunk:

Image
From http://www.renault4.co.uk/rosalie-in-chamonix.htm

Image
From http://members.casema.nl/hans.veldkamp/ ... ault2.html

Image
From http://members.casema.nl/hans.veldkamp/ ... ault1.html ("Our trunk is to carry everything. Including people". This is the ad the Red Brigades must have read.)

Image
From http://members.casema.nl/hans.veldkamp/ ... ault2.html

and once again:

Image

...it becomes crucial to find out how tall Aldo Moro really was. (corsarino, can you piece together the source for that information about Moro's height?)
I had to make this post for intellectual honestly, since I argued before that it was not strange for Moro to fit into that trunk. I am not entirely sure anymore...

* * *

p.s. this is unrelated but... the ad in the fourth picture is dated 1973-74. Among other things it states that the R4 makes 17 km with one liter of gasoline. This is depressing. My little 9 years old FIAT, "euro3" and whatnot, does 17 km per liter. Almost 40 years later, nothing is changed in motor performance for the masses. We are being fooled, I tell you. <_<
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby bostonterrierowner on August 13th, 2011, 2:14 pm

NoHo ,

The picture of Moro in a trunk shows some other type of a car , its way too big for a R4 , compare it to the other pics of this legendary vehicle :)

The trunk is too wide , Aldo's position in it would be impossible in a real R4 . Maybe we are onto smth. here ?

Photographer responsible for this picture is an interesting individual , we are still waiting for Simon to write more about him once the dust on Utoya settles down ... :)
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Re: Murder of Italian politician Aldo Moro - what was it rea

Postby bostonterrierowner on August 13th, 2011, 2:17 pm

bostonterrierowner wrote:NoHo ,

The picture of Moro in a trunk shows some other type of a car , its way too big for a R4 , compare it to the other pics of this legendary vehicle :)

The trunk is too wide , Aldo's position in it would be impossible in a real R4 . Maybe we are onto smth. here ?

Photographer responsible for this picture is an interesting individual , we are still waiting for Simon to write more about him once the dust on Utoya settles down ... :)


Regarding Kissinger . Motherfucker refuses to let go and die , just like his criminal buddies Brzezinski and George Herbert Walker Bush :)

I messed up my post i was supposed to edit it but I quoted myself :) sorry
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