The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Global War deceptions & mass manipulation, fear-mongering terror schemes and propaganda in the Age of the Bomb

Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby arc300 on October 9th, 2015, 12:07 pm

@Selene
In order to discuss the holocaust and to make any conclusion about whether it actually happened or not, we first need to define the term holocaust.
The term "holocaust" does not and CAN NOT merely mean "some bad shit happened to some jews during WW2". Surely, that would negate the specialness of the alleged event, and it would certainly negate the need for a special name for it and for the special financial "compensation"available to its alleged jewish victims.

I propose a definition of the term "holocaust". This is inspired by/paraphrased from something I read many years ago, I can't remember where. It was possibly Irving, but who cares? The definition either stands or falls on its own merits:

The holocaust is:

1. The murder of at least 11 Million innocent people
2. 6 Million of whom were jews
3. Performed in an "industrial" manner
4. Mainly by gassing
5. By an insane militarized ruling political group called "the Nazis"
6. With either Zyklon B or Carbon Monoxide from diesel engines
7. The six Million jews were murdered simply because of their religion
8. The other 5 Million non-jews were murdered because ... who gives a fuck? How many people even KNOW about the other 5 million?
9. The bodies of these 11 Million people were so well disposed-of that only the remains of some "thousands" have ever been found
10. And it was all done so secretly that nobody noticed until the American military made post-hoc newsreels about it.

I could go on, but I'm gonna stop there because I think a definition should, by definition, be as uncontroversial as possible, and I think I've let myself down a bit with Number 8. But at least it's a start; if we are to proceed scientifically, we must at least first agree on a definition of terms. Right?
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby arc300 on October 9th, 2015, 1:30 pm

Actually, if we are to proceed scientifically on ANY topic, I think it would be useful to identify parts of the claim that could also function as a "smoke test" or "sanity test".

"Both sanity tests and smoke tests are ways to avoid wasting time and effort by quickly determining whether an application is too flawed to merit any rigorous testing." source: http://www.guru99.com/smoke-sanity-testing.html

The claims we discuss on this forum are normally narratives and a narrative is analogous to a system. If any critical component of the narrative is faulty, our narrative fails. As soon as we identify a faulty critical component, we know we can stop wasting our precious time continuing to test said narrative.

Personally, (thanks to Simon's work) my own smoke test in regards to the 9/11 narrative is the fact that aluminium can not cut through hardened steel and concrete. The smoke test identified this faulty component to me, allowing me to see the entire narrative for the worthless bullshit that it is. No more need to waste my time reading excrement about thermite, pods, space weapons, Dick Cheney in the bunker, etc etc.

I realise that the 9/11 "aluminium vs hardened steel" smoke test is very clear-cut, self contained and irrefutable and that only a moron would continue testing or discussing such a narrative, whereas it is more difficult to pin down (in the mind of an innocent listener) the faulty components of such a wide-ranging, multi-faceted, durative, amorphous and ill-defined narrative as that of the holocaust, if only because to do so would render one a dirty, heartless anti-semite who should, and really COULD, be sent to a prison or asylum.

So, what is a smoke test for the faultiness of the holocaust narrative? Off the top of my head the two strongest contenders would be either:

1. The FACT that you can be imprisoned for not believing the narrative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, OR,
2. The claim that 11 (ELEVEN!!!!) MILLION people disappeared off the face of this earth, leaving nothing but a pile of a few hundred shoes.

Any other suggestions?
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Flabbergasted on October 9th, 2015, 1:59 pm

arc300 wrote:Any other suggestions?

I could put together a veeeery long list of Holocaust narrative smoke tests for you, but one that is somewhat analogous to the aluminium wing vs. reinforced steel column argument is the physical impossibility of conducting executions by gas in any of the facilities designed and/or built prior to 1945 by German-hired prison camp engineers.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby omaxsteve on October 9th, 2015, 9:48 pm

I know that I will probably get my head ripped off for this , but is there room for any discussion about the possibility that there was actually a holocaust or is it "case closed"?

My personal experience is limited. The only thing that I know, for certain, is that both my grandparents had numbers tattooed on their forearms . They both were held in concentration camps. They both died before I was old enough to get any real "testimony" from them about their personal experiences.

I have no first hand knowledge of any killings, whether by gas chamber or other method, but I think it would be a disservice to all the members and any visitors here not to see ANY of the arguments that validate the holocaust. Rather than spend the time to put some of the primary arguments in writing , here is a link to a site that does a better job than I can of providing the best proof that there was a holocaust.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-evidence-that-proves-beyond-reasonable-doubt-that-the-Holocaust-occurred


Here is an excerpt for those that do not want to read the entire article:

No Nazi was ever a Holocaust denier.

This one, simple fact shows that everything the modern deniers try to claim is a post hoc contrivance. From 1945 onwards, thousands of Nazis were captured and hundreds tried for their part in the Holocaust and other crimes against humanity. They tried to pretend they were someone else, they tried to pretend they didn't know what was happening, they tried to pretend they didn't have as much to do with it as others, they tried to claim they were just following orders and they tried to justify it as "the kind of thing that happens in war." But what not one of them ever did was deny it happened.

Even men on trial for their lives, in the full knowledge they would be hanged if convicted, never stood up in the courtroom and shouted "This is all a lie! This is a fabrication! There were no gas chambers and no crematoria! I'm being framed!" On the contrary, they gave great detail as to precisely how they had helped build and helped run the mechanics of mass murder, some of them even seeming proud of how they had achieved something so complex and on such a vast scale.


Is it possible that all of the defendants were actors and part of the hoax? I suppose so.

heres another excerpt:

he Shoah Visual History archive, which contains more than 52,000 eyewitness testimonies of Holocaust survivors, witnesses, rescuers and perpetrators.

The collection was created in the wake of the critically acclaimed film, Schindler's List. It represents the first effort to build a comprehensive archive comprised entirely of the stories, faces and voices of the people who experienced one of the darkest chapters of human history.

The Shoah archive employs the most advanced tools of technology and conservation. The testimonies are used for a wide range of purposes: original source material for scholarly research, genealogical and identity tracking, answering questions and filling in the gaps for the family members of holocaust victims, footage for filmmakers, source material for community and human rights groups, and content for students, in every discipline.

There is no reasonable person who can dispute the authenticity of 52,000 detailed testimonies with recurrent themes and stories. The original source material is safeguarded with great care.

The archive is physically housed at USC, but hundreds of organizations worldwide have full or partial access to the collection. There are stand-alone servers with curated collections- some contain stories of survivors from a specific place, others are organized are a special issue. The archive is fully searchable.

I chaired this effort for 8 years. It was an honor and a huge responsibility to get this right-- and hundreds of us, from every country, practicing every religion, speaking 33 languages of us worked hard on this task.

Since completing the cataloging of the original archive, we have added testimonies from citizens of Rwanda, Bosnia and other places where there are so many profound and dramatic examples of the worst-- and the best-- in human beings.


Again, is it possible that 52,000 detailed eyewitness testimonies were all fabrications? I guess so.

In law there is as term called "preponderance of evidence". I believe that the overwhelming majority of open minded individual who bother to research BOTH sides of the issue will come to the conclusion that this was not an event (like 9-11) that could possibly have been staged.

regards,

Steve O.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby ProperGander on October 9th, 2015, 9:59 pm

Image

Simon Wiesenthal
"...was an Austrian writer and Nazi hunter. He was a Jewish Austrian Holocaust survivor who became famous after World War II for his work as a Nazi hunter.

He studied architecture and was living in Lviv (Lwów) at the outbreak of World War II. After being forced to work as a slave labourer in Nazi concentration camps such as Janowska, Plaszow, and Mauthausen during the war, Wiesenthal dedicated most of his life to tracking down and gathering information on fugitive Nazi war criminals so that they could be brought to trial. In 1947 he co-founded the Jewish Historical Documentation Center in Linz, Austria, where he and others gathered information for future war crime trials and aided refugees in their search for lost relatives. He opened the Jewish Documentation Center in Vienna in 1961 and continued to try to locate missing Nazi war criminals. He played a small role in locating Adolf Eichmann, who was captured in Buenos Aires in 1960, and worked closely with the Austrian justice ministry to prepare a dossier on Franz Stangl, who was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1971."


Autobiographical inconsistencies
Wiesenthal wrote a number of books, some of which contain conflicting stories and tales, many of which were invented. Several authors, including Segev and British author Guy Walters, feel that Wiesenthal's autobiographies cannot be considered reliable sources of information about his life and activities.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Wiesenthal

I think I saw a Netflix documentary recently about Mr. Wiesenthal and I believe this came up. He claimed to have worked at three different labor camps. Seems odd that he would have been transfer around like that.
Last edited by ProperGander on October 10th, 2015, 1:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Critical Mass on October 10th, 2015, 1:18 am

omaxsteve wrote:I know that I will probably get my head ripped off for this , but is there room for any discussion about the possibility that there was actually a holocaust or is it "case closed"?

Which bit of the Holocaust do you believe to be real?

The 'six million' predicted decades earlier?
The bizarre 'reconstructed' 'Homicidal gas chambers' which lack cyanide staining?

Simple question Steve do you think the following 'Tales of the Holocaust' are true?

Link

It was Eichmann who ordered full automation for the extermination camp at Auschwitz, where 2,500,000 Jews* were put to death, mostly by gas. It was he who arranged for them to be transported from the gas chambers to the crematoria chambers by conveyor belts


(* Currently 1.1 million on Wikipedia)

Link

"the traces of the electric conveyor belt, on which hundreds of people were simultaneously electrocuted, their bodies falling onto the slow moving conveyor belt which carried them to the top of the blast furnace where they fell in, were completely burned, their bones converted to meal in the rolling mills, and then sent to the surrounding fields."


Link

Katalin Weinberger was also in a German concentration camp at the end of World War II. There she helped save the life of her sister, Charlotte Frimm, when she was sick with typhus.

Katalin buried her sister in a remote part of the camp with just a small pipe sticking up through the soil for her to breathe. For 30 days she snuck food and water to her sister. A Jewish doctor at the camp snuck medicine to her. Frimm continued to suffer from severe asthma after they were freed.


Now remember people went & go to prison for denying these claims!



omaxsteve wrote:Is it possible that all of the defendants were actors and part of the hoax? I suppose so.

Seriously... you're completely unaware that there are serious problems with the 'Nuremberg Trial'?

Are you even aware of how absurd the official story is? Especially for at least one third of 'the Holocaust'...


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dxsVSzL4HE



Again, is it possible that 52,000 detailed eyewitness testimonies were all fabrications?


Well it appears many of them completely contradict the official story & are bunk...


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80GgRWuXcO8



I believe that the overwhelming majority of open minded individual who bother to research BOTH sides of the issue will come to the conclusion that this was not an event (like 9-11) that could possibly have been staged.



I too hope readers research both sides of the issue... even though such research could lead to the loss of their liberty and/or financial ruination.

Despite this I'd still advise it for any brave neutral... I'm sure Steve you too would also hope our readers are lucky enough to avoid imprisonment?


In addition let no individual claim that this is an 'anti-Semitic' research topic... many brave Jewish people have also concluded that there is a lot wrong with the 'official story'

http://www.righteousjews.org/article27a.html

http://rehmat1.com/2011/09/24/french-jew-see-my-shoah-sherlockholmised%E2%80%99/

https://archive.org/details/ALetterFromJewishFrenchDr.RogerDommerguePolaccoDeMenasceToStevens
Last edited by Critical Mass on October 10th, 2015, 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby simonshack on October 10th, 2015, 1:33 am

*

I don't understand. Why are the two above Youtube videos linked by Critical Mass unavailable in my country?

Image

Omaxsteve? Why - in your honest opinion - do you think such bizarre / selective Youtube censorship is going on? :blink:


Hey, what if SEPTEMBER CLUES were unavailable in some country!? Does anyone know anything about that?

My own / gravest experience of September Clues censorship (and something I have just forgotten to tell you all - silly me) is that all parts of the Slovak version of SEPTEMBER CLUES - which I had uploaded on my own Youtube channel - suddenly just disappeared (some time ago) - i.e. were DELETED - point blank. NO explanation / motive given by Youtube - ever ! They were just removed, arbitrarily.
Image
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Critical Mass on October 10th, 2015, 1:41 am

Hmmm odd... I'm sure it's just a 'bizarre coincidence' Simon :rolleyes:

How are these links on your end?

The Last Days of the Big Lie




full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIRaYCRF69s

One third of the Holocaust


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taIaG8b2u8I


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj94b8DFwPg
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby simonshack on October 10th, 2015, 2:00 am

Critical Mass wrote:How are these links on your end?


Another two "Holocaust critiques' on Youtube are 'not available' (i.e. censored) in my country, dear Critical Mass. I wonder why?

Image

Omaxsteve, what are your thoughts about this blatant censorship ? Please do respond to this question of mine. Thanks.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby arc300 on October 10th, 2015, 2:37 am

Flabbergasted wrote:
arc300 wrote:Any other suggestions?

I could put together a veeeery long list of Holocaust narrative smoke tests for you, but one that is somewhat analogous to the aluminium wing vs. reinforced steel column argument is the physical impossibility of conducting executions by gas in any of the facilities designed and/or built prior to 1945 by German-hired prison camp engineers.


Yes, Flabbergasted, it would be impossible to conduct mass executions in the so-called gas chambers in the prison camps.
However, another smoke test (ie. a test to see whether you are getting smoke blown up your arse :) ) regarding the nazi gassing claims is to comprehend these following photographs:

Image

Image

Image

These photos show real gas chambers placed over railway tracks. The top photo is possibly the largest gas chamber in the world in El Paso, Texas; it straddles 3 tracks and is capable of fumigating 15 railroad cars at one time. There are/were others in Texas alone and they were used to prevent the importation of noxious pests in produce coming from Mexico.

The other two photos depict the same kind of gas chambers, one in Budapest, the other in an unstated(?) German location.

It seems to be uncontroversial that these giant, functional gas chambers already existed in "nazi Europe" during the time of the alleged holocaust gassings. They would be the perfect mass murder weapons. One would only need to drive a train full of jews (and ONLY jews - fuck the other 5 million!) into these tunnels, gas them, then drive them straight to the black-smoke-belching crematoria or highly-problematic burial pits. This would fit with the cartoonish image of a ruthlessly efficient, industrial nazi killing machine.

But this gassing narrative immediately fails the smoke test when we realise that, instead of doing the sensible thing and using this already extant, highly functional technology, the cunning nazis decided to complicate the whole process by building gas chambers that could not have worked. And I'll bet they cackled as they built, their leather riding boots creaking and their monocles steaming up with erotic pleasure.

There are many sources for this information, the one I used today was here: http://www.whale.to/b/large_gas_chambers.html
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby arc300 on October 10th, 2015, 3:13 am

@Omaxsteve

I assume you know that the accepted 9/11 narrative is a hoax.
Yet I'm sure you'll be able to find plenty of eye-witnesses who can validate certain components of the narrative, for example, the fact that on September 10, 2001 the WTC stood proud and tall, and on September 11 it had been reduced to a pile of (photoshopped) rubble. I doubt there is anybody who would deny this testimony, but that does not validate the narrative as a whole.

The fact that your grandparents had tattoos on their arms only validates the fact that your grandparents had tattoos on their arms. It does not validate the claim that 11 million people were systematically 'disappeared' off the face of this earth. Perhaps if you had been able to ask your grandparents about their experiences they would have told you true and harrowing accounts of life in a German transit camp during the war because during war, bad shit happens to good people. Nobody denies this. But, in the same way that the destruction of the WTC does not validate stupid stories about 19 dirty Arabs armed with box-cutters (etc etc), your grandparents tattoos and isolated personal experience does not validate stupid stories about physical and logistical impossibilities.

I read that site that you linked and, to be honest, it falls far short of the standards a reasonable person would require of evidence or proof. The so-called arguments, by-and-large, are nothing more than emotional manipulation, childish name-calling and ad hominem attacks against those who would disagree with the holocaust narrative. This in itself is another smoke test for me and is very similar to the garbage we see posited as evidence for the global warming scam. I'm sure you can do better than that. You might like to start with the videos that Critical Mass has posted.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby omaxsteve on October 10th, 2015, 8:05 am

Apolologies in advance , I'm drivingwriting "under the influence" If there are typos , I'll comebback tomorrow and edit. I have already made my position on censorship clear :wacko: . I am not in favor of any censorship; short of inciting hatred.

Please don't aim your questions ,and proof of holo hoaxes at me. It matters not a whit to me if people believe, or do not believe , that there was a holocaust. Either, it happened, or it did not. I am open to the possibility of it being a hoax, but if it was a hoax, how did they pull it off? I was originally attracted to this site because inherently I knew that 9-11 was a hoax, but I could not figure out how "they" pulled it off. Simonshack and September Clues, helped me to "get" it. I've yet to see any feasible explanation for how the holocaust could have been "hoaxed" into public consciousness. This was not a one day event. It took place over many years, in many countries. It would be like faking the treatment of slaves in America. Were the first generation of colored skinned people treated equally and fairly in America?

Another issue I have is the extent to which "they" could have distorted reality? Were Jews in Nazi germany allowed to live freely, work, own businesses, buy property, etc? Or were they imprisoned, and put in camps, without having committed any crime other than being Jewish? .

Assuming that they (Jews ) were persecuted, and imprisoned, but there were no mass executions, would that be considered a crime? If they were just rounded up, tattooed, put on boats and expelled from Germany would that have been acceptable?

Would it be any more , or less, acceptable if a country committed that type of atrocity to any ethnic group?

Final thoughts for tonight :

What are the chances that anyone that was guilty of plotting, and or executing this giant holo hoax is still alive today?

If it did turn out to be a hoax, would not the Jews ( every Jew that was not involved in the great conspiracy, be the biggest victims? Do you think that Selene ( and thousands of others innocent Jews ) that were lied to by their parents and convinced that there grandparents great uncles, aunts, etc were exterminated in gas chambers were not traumatized by this news?

In the Jewish conspiracy thread, it seemed like many here were concerned for the poor babies psychological health after the trauma of circumcision.

Exactly what advantage is gained by the average good and law abiding Jewish citizen of today from holocaust denial being criminalized?

The only advantage I can think of is that it prevents them from being the target of abuse and victims of hate crimes. Unless you believe that all living Jews should be impugned for the sins of their ancestors, what is the end game benefit of attempting to prove the holocaust was a hoax?

This site could be an important part of history. Exposing media fakery, 9-11 and so many other current hoaxes may eventually pave the way for changes in the way the world , and especially the media operates. Exposing the holocaust "hoax" even if you could effectively do so , benefits no one.

If you truly believe that the JPMs are behind all the hoaxes, would not the best srategy for defeating them be getting the mainstream Jews; those that have families, kids, jobs, pay taxes, etc.on your side? Those 95% + innocent jews that are affected just as much as all the non-jews by the media fakery and psy-ops that you are exposing, may be your best allies in "taking down" the JPM perps.

I can guarantee that you will not attract many Jews to your side by questioning the gravity of the holocaust. Whether it happened as purported or not, pretty much every Jewish person I know finds it offensive for the treatment of their ancestors in Nazi Germany to be found as anything less than deplorable.

Choose your battles carefully. Keep your eyes on the prize. You can lead the exodus of the sheeple from their controllers, or you can be just another fringe "conspiracy group". Love is stronger than hate.

Happy Thanksgiving weekend to all the Canadians ;

Regards,

Steve O.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby arc300 on October 10th, 2015, 11:31 am

omaxsteve wrote:Apolologies in advance , whinge, whine, veiled threat, Whacko!, strawman argument, deliberate missing of the point, just because I make stupid posts doesn't give you the right to question me or call me out on my lachrymose mendacity, you're a hater and believe da jooz are behind everything, yadda yadda yadda...


Cry me a river, you disingenuous clown. After reading the retarded shit that you just wrote, I had a look at your previous posts and I've got to say I can't believe you weren't told to fuck off years ago.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Ataraxia on October 10th, 2015, 11:38 am

omaxsteve wrote:Another issue I have is the extent to which "they" could have distorted reality? Were Jews in Nazi germany allowed to live freely, work, own businesses, buy property, etc? Or were they imprisoned, and put in camps, without having committed any crime other than being Jewish?

Assuming that they (Jews ) were persecuted, and imprisoned, but there were no mass executions, would that be considered a crime? If they were just rounded up, tattooed, put on boats and expelled from Germany would that have been acceptable?

Would it be any more , or less, acceptable if a country committed that type of atrocity to any ethnic group?


During WW2, here in Canada all the Japanese were rounded up and put into concentration camps. These were Canadian citizens, and they had their property and savings confiscated by the government. This was done against all humane laws, of course. The same happened in America, but not quite as effectively. These camps had pretty poor standards too, and many people died from diseases and the cold, etc. Then when the war ended, these inmates were released and everyone just sort of went back to living as before, and for the most part it's been forgotten about. It's certainly never brought up by the media and it doesn't play any part of the North American social conscious. These inmates were tattooed as well and suffered horribly, all while being innocent people living in free and civilized countries.

Yet isn't that in it's own way an example of how easy it is to create the emotion and history? The fact that nobody cares at all about the Japanese, but we're supposed to live in sheer veneration for the Jews and absolutely accept what we're told about their suffering. And yet the Jewish people today don't stand up and speak out for the Japanese who suffered. You'd think they'd be inseparable brothers-in-arms. Yet even they don't care at all about the innocent Japanese who were imprisoned and tortured simply because of their race.

The pompous myth of the holocaust actually renders the suffering of every real victim moot (and this includes the ordinary Jewish victims, whose suffering is certainly, purposely taken advantage of). I'd dare say that the people who continue to push these myths are the ones who demean and disregard those who truly did suffer, and in the end, they also act as killers in a way. We're forced to worship at the altar of this fakery and ignore all other suffering as being trivial when compared to it.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Seneca on October 10th, 2015, 12:10 pm

Whether omxasteve is disingenious or not, I don't think it is bad advice to at least try to get the non-JPM jewish people on board.I hope when he is sober he can confirm that nobody here is calling the "treatment of their ancestors in Nazi Germany" anything less than deplorable. Only less exceptional.
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