The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Global War deceptions & mass manipulation, fear-mongering terror schemes and propaganda in the Age of the Bomb

Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Seneca on October 10th, 2015, 1:24 pm

simonshack wrote:
Selene wrote:
My great-grandparents and my grandpas sister (he had just one, no inflated 10 siblings or so...) all died while my grandfather survived. He was clearly traumatized by the war.

It's hard to be the great-grandchild of a vicsim, wouldn't you agree?

Gravestones in extermination camps? Or back home? After the devastating effect of the war and the real horror which was only discovered by digging into archives many years later?


selene wrote: Of those people, only 10.3 % survived...


Wow - 10.3% ? Is that counting stray limbs and all?

Well, Selene - if the above few lines are all you have to offer regarding your alleged personal family history, I think you are full of shit.

Bye now.

Simon, I hope you haven't banned Selene permanently. As you know I was very suspicious of him after his first posts and I never let my suspicion overboard, but I still think he could be sincere. His contributions on this topic were not very helpful, I think this is because he overestimates the importance of his own findings. Like when he thought his impressions of his trip to Chernobyl could be proof that nuclear power is real.
But at least (if he is sincere) he is doing research, traveling to these places like Chernobyl, Auschwitz and Sobibor. For me that shows his motivation to do research on the ground, more than I ever did. Research that we need. But he needs help drawing conclusions from his research, nobody is perfect.
As we can also see on his posts on this topic, he often misinterprets what others write and has difficulties questioning this interpretation. And he has a writing style that can lead to others misinterpreting him. For example, I think that with this part "Gravestones in extermination camps? Or back home?" he could have meant simply that he didn't thought that his Jewish relatives were buried so there wouldn't be gravestones.
To prevent these kinds of misunderstandings I proposed him he let somebody review his posts before he would post them here. He didn't respond to that suggestion.

Please consider readmitting him, under strict conditions, we are so few.
By the way I haven't read his latest posts in the dinosaur, I know he was very emotional about this topic.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Critical Mass on October 10th, 2015, 2:28 pm

arc300 wrote:Cry me a river, you disingenuous clown. After reading the retarded shit that you just wrote, I had a look at your previous posts and I've got to say I can't believe you weren't told to fuck off years ago.

I have to agree with arc300... Steve's bizarre & emotional ramble was perhaps the worst post I've yet read on Cluesforum.

If I was forced to choose just one line to point out...

I can guarantee that you will not attract many Jews to your side by questioning the gravity of the holocaust.


Which begs a number of questions.

Has exposing the 9/11 Hoax been a fabulously successful marketing strategy... well endorsed & accepted by the '95%+ of innocent' Americans?

Is Cluesforum about 'attracting' punters now?

Did he not read the links* that showed there were brave Jewish people (some of whom have also been sent to Jail &/or lost their jobs) who also thought the Holocaust story was a 'fishy' one?

Are they trying to 'attract' 'Jews' to 'their side'? Or instead are they just inquisitive people trying to find the truth through mountains of (proven) media bullshit?




* Clearly not... he's not interested.
Last edited by Critical Mass on October 10th, 2015, 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby ProperGander on October 10th, 2015, 2:38 pm

Ataraxia wrote:
omaxsteve wrote:Another issue I have is the extent to which "they" could have distorted reality? Were Jews in Nazi germany allowed to live freely, work, own businesses, buy property, etc? Or were they imprisoned, and put in camps, without having committed any crime other than being Jewish?

Assuming that they (Jews ) were persecuted, and imprisoned, but there were no mass executions, would that be considered a crime? If they were just rounded up, tattooed, put on boats and expelled from Germany would that have been acceptable?

Would it be any more , or less, acceptable if a country committed that type of atrocity to any ethnic group?


During WW2, here in Canada all the Japanese were rounded up and put into concentration camps. These were Canadian citizens, and they had their property and savings confiscated by the government. This was done against all humane laws, of course. The same happened in America, but not quite as effectively. These camps had pretty poor standards too, and many people died from diseases and the cold, etc. Then when the war ended, these inmates were released and everyone just sort of went back to living as before, and for the most part it's been forgotten about. It's certainly never brought up by the media and it doesn't play any part of the North American social conscious. These inmates were tattooed as well and suffered horribly, all while being innocent people living in free and civilized countries.

Yet isn't that in it's own way an example of how easy it is to create the emotion and history? The fact that nobody cares at all about the Japanese, but we're supposed to live in sheer veneration for the Jews and absolutely accept what we're told about their suffering. And yet the Jewish people today don't stand up and speak out for the Japanese who suffered. You'd think they'd be inseparable brothers-in-arms. Yet even they don't care at all about the innocent Japanese who were imprisoned and tortured simply because of their race.

The pompous myth of the holocaust actually renders the suffering of every real victim moot (and this includes the ordinary Jewish victims, whose suffering is certainly, purposely taken advantage of). I'd dare say that the people who continue to push these myths are the ones who demean and disregard those who truly did suffer, and in the end, they also act as killers in a way. We're forced to worship at the altar of this fakery and ignore all other suffering as being trivial when compared to it.



The Japanese were considered the enemy, the Jewish people, victims. The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and were crazed 'Kamikaze' suicide pilots. The U.S.A. military focused its might on Japan more so than Germany, at least for the first half of the war or so, if I have my history right. We have films of it and voice overs telling us what to think, so it all must be true. ;)

World War Two is promoted to this day, so perhaps some of the reason has to do with these considerations. Since World War Two has been in 're-run' for years, we get the same basic narrative the public got sitting in the theaters watching the newsreels back in the 1940's, so perhaps there is a tendency to view these evens in the same way they did back then. It is very easy to use cultural differences as a means of dividing the world. These differences are exaggerated for effect and are not quite as real as we have been led to believe.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Seneca on October 10th, 2015, 7:32 pm

Critical Mass wrote:
I can guarantee that you will not attract many Jews to your side by questioning the gravity of the holocaust.


Which begs a number of questions.

Has exposing the 9/11 Hoax been a fabulously successful marketing strategy... well endorsed & accepted by the '95%+ of innocent' Americans?

Is Cluesforum about 'attracting' punters now?

Did he not read the links* that showed there were brave Jewish people (some of whom have also been sent to Jail &/or lost their jobs) who also thought the Holocaust story was a 'fishy' one?

Are they trying to 'attract' 'Jews' to 'their side'? Or instead are they just inquisitive people trying to find the truth through mountains of (proven) media bullshit?


I don't understand why you are interpreting this in such a negative way. I think we are doing both here: trying to find the truth and somehow attracting people so they can read it.
edit: grammatical error
Last edited by Seneca on October 10th, 2015, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby bostonterrierowner on October 10th, 2015, 8:39 pm

Again, I am repeating myself but I will try to share some comments on so called holocaust ( I am exposing myself to penal responsibility already, typing "so called" ).

My grandmother lived in Warsaw during WW2 until 1944 when after Warsaw Uprising she was taken to Magdeburg to the work camp. We spent countless hours talking about German occupation and persecution of Jews which was the undeniable fact on the streets of Warsaw ( hasidic Jews were 30% of population before the war ). She told me about beating, insulting, forcing to dance, brutally tearing off side curls and other savage behavior on behalf of Germans. Wehrmacht, SS all of them.

If somebody claims that Nazi occupation was a benign time for these people and the whole thing is just Hollywood's invention is propagating nonsense.

My grandmother's sister was hiding a Jewish guy basically throughout the entire war putting her family's and all other peoples' lives in the building in danger. That's right, when the krauts found a hidden Jew in a single apartment a whole building could have ended up against the wall . Besides this fact people were giving them shelter and such attitude was common.

Now 6.000.000 million figure, gas chambers, Treblinka, Auschwitz etc: "Spielbergism" .

Hasidic communities disappeared from Polish cities, towns and villages completely . On the other hand when Israeli Knesset was formed in 1948 a language used there was Polish. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of Eastern European Jews somehow reappeared in Palestine.

Was Auschwitz a giant refugee processing site just like the similar facilities for Eastern bloc refugees in Austria and Italy in 1980s?

Official body count in Auschwitz was 4 million until 1989 when it was reduced to 1.8 million. Numbers are even more ridiculous for Majdanek and Treblinka.

Cyclon B is a insecticide still produced by Basf or other AG FARBEN branch under the name of Uragan DD. It was commonly used by the Germans in Offlags, Stalags, work camps and their own military installations were substantial numbers of people were accommodated. Main reason - typhus.

Read about flea feeding. People were paid good money, provisioned with food, immune from arrests, police hour etc. if they agreed to feed these insects in their thighs. Entire "Lwów mathematic school" with Stefan Banach himself survived the war left in peace by Gestapo or SS despite being openly Jews. Reason - fleas and only fleas could have been used to produce typhus vaccination.

Forgive my style but recently I downloaded a movie from Internet and after several months I found the letter from some scheister law firm demanding compensation and threatening me with a lawsuit :)

BTW the term "holocaust" in the past was understood as a human sacrifice to the gods. The Atonist/solar cult sect that rules us today and manifests itself as the London-DC-Rome triangle has its roots in Brahmo-Buddhic religions of India. Goths are Buddhists later renamed to Christians so are Slavs and Roman/Latins. Burnt offerings of horses and humans were common among the Gothic tribes. Rome itself invented itself on Etruscan foundations and for example Alexander Del Mar claims that Etruscans are a Phoenician people like eg. Carthaginians. Phoenician are a Semitic nation from Kanaan, today's Israel,Lebanon and Syria.

This way we are back at "Jew" identity . Phoenician elite were Chaldean mysteries initiates/priests thereby most probably the original "Jews".

Babylonian slavery IMHO is an astrological event but it might refer as well to some period of schooling in aforementioned mysteries. Hindu mythos of messiah, his reincarnations/avatars reappearing on Earth in sync with the ecliptic cycle had been used by Alexander of Macedon, Scipio Africanus, Ptolemy, Julius Caesar, Augustus, Cortez among others, to attempt an imposture of being "son of god". JC, Augustus and Cortez succeeded. Once an ambitious individual like Alexander managed to install himself as "god" and enforce his homage a whole myth/mythos was created around his persona.

So called gospel of "Jesus" is a fable built around the genuine (most probably) politicians -Julius Caesar and his adopted son Octavianus/Augustus. Turning another cheek,loving your enemies theme springs from Caesar's clemency and a lenient attitude towards his enemies. This are not default solar myth features like 3 days of death, resurrection, dying on a cross etc. Like I said, they were constructed around JC's and Augustus's lives.

Chaldean religion is also Vedic or Brahmo-Buddhic, in short all known religions throughout the world have their roots in India. This is the furthest the written records can take us.

Latin tribes must have one day revolted against their Etruscan/Phoenician masters (working them to death in gold and silver mines most probably) took over their religion, state institutions etc. and Rome was founded. Romulus, Numa are just fables. These "savages" couldn't have been that dumb because they put right money regulations in place (paramount in significance for prosperity of the state), we can read about Roman diplomatic mission to Solon's Athens entering its own period of greatness and political sagacity. Rome later expanded, took over entire Italy, Levant and Western Europe with Britain. Roman blood is gothic, latin, etruscan/phoenician. I am not sure who Slavs really are but I tend to suspect they are Scythians/Goths too. Polish names of months descriptive of nature phenomenons point to this for example.

For some centuries Rome had been a monarchy/narrow oligarchy with 7 imaginary kings each ruling 35 years later it became a republic/wide oligarchy with an equitable resource redistribution system and rose to greatness. I have read somewhere that in the beginning Roman hills where people fleeing Etruscan yoke used to find their refuge. In this and countless other aspects it resembles America.

This is where I am actually going to: I want to show that USA, UK and Vatican are today's Rome being ruled by the same chaldean/buddhic/atonist/solar(other planets are also worshiped but I cannot elaborate on this one now) priesthood with pope/Ceasar/Emperor/Pontifex Maximus on the very top and his junior Ceasars -POTUS and Queen or King of Britain.

Our current political, legal, religious systems were designed and installed by Gaius Maria Caesar ("Julius" [Jesus, Hesus, Helios, Dion-Issus,Bacchus also mean "sun"] was given to him at the apotheosis) and especially Augustus. Christianity, Judaism, Islam are a Roman phenomenon.

In the beginning the hierarchy hinged on a single Emperor who simultaneously was Pontifex Maximus thereby combining both temporal and sacred powers. This is exactly what caused JC his life, securing these two prerogatives. Augustus wasn't that understanding and lenient as Caesar and managed to continue and perfect the project. The project that still works today, after 2000 years.

later there were 2 Emperors than 3,4,7, 12 and 2 again... In one moment ecclesiastic and temporal powers got separated again, we had Western Caesar/Emperor and Bishop of Rome/Pontifex Maximus. At that time actual city of Rome lost its significance and the capital of the empire was moved to Byzantium.

Eastern Emperor/Basileus was a supreme leader who appointed his own chief priest,sovereign pontiff, next came an emperor and his pontifex maximus but in this case he was appointed from the capital in Byzantium/Constantinople.

Here we can see a mechanism of rivalry that drives geopolitics today. Pope vs. Emperor and Eastern Empire.

This is exactly what WW2 was about just like WW1, 30 year war and countless of others.

Pope was a common name for a bishop derived from Greek "papa/father" only in 11th century it was reserved for the bishop of Rome. After 1204 and a fall of Constantinople latin pontifex maximus/pope achieved supremacy and like Julius Caesar demanded the right to tax the world.

Charlemagne subdued the pope, made him his vassal and expanded Western Roman power, signed the brutally forged by Vatican Treaty of Seltz w where he recognized a superiority of Basileus. His immediate abstention from coining gold and accepting official Roman ( Byzantines called themselves "Roman" ) titles is a proof of this fact for example.

After Charlemagne's death popes always tried to get on top of the hierarchy and they finally after 1204 succeeded. Emperors continued as well up until 1918, elected by the college (like POTUS) but bishop of Rome skillfully played his vassals against one another.

Until Germany was fragmented there was no problem but after the unification it had to be subdued again.

the same was true for Tzars/Cars ( Car is derived from Caesar) . This is how I look at this: Tzars of Russia claimed to be lawful heirs to Basileus/Augustus and Keiser (also Caesar) wanted to be Charlemagne again.

Latin Triangle came up with and funded NAZIS and Bolsheviks to make these two great states jump to each other's throats and put them securely under pope's boot again. Kissing Caesar's foot was first started by JC btw.

British royalty manifests their Phoenician origin by the color of purple.

Image

I hope I am not derailing. Majority of this post would be more suitable for "Hiding in Plain Sight: Reflections on an Open Conspiracy" thread
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Seneca on October 10th, 2015, 11:20 pm

I compared some maps of the jewish deportations by Nazi Germany with the map of countries with laws against Holocaust denial.
Image
Image
The first map may not be accurate. In the second map Italy should be added to the map as Simon has written.
There is a big match. Every country where a black arrow starts or ends, except for Greece, has a law against Holocaust denial.

Conversely, there are only a few countries with these laws without black arrows starting or finishing (Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Lithuania, Romania, Israel).

There can be many explanations for this correspondence, but one of the obvious consequences is that this makes it much harder to research it. In other words : much easier to censor the researchers.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby arc300 on October 11th, 2015, 7:00 am

Seneca wrote:
Critical Mass wrote:
I can guarantee that you will not attract many Jews to your side by questioning the gravity of the holocaust.


Which begs a number of questions.

Has exposing the 9/11 Hoax been a fabulously successful marketing strategy... well endorsed & accepted by the '95%+ of innocent' Americans?

Is Cluesforum about 'attracting' punters now?

Did he not read the links* that showed there were brave Jewish people (some of whom have also been sent to Jail &/or lost their jobs) who also thought the Holocaust story was a 'fishy' one?

Are they trying to 'attract' 'Jews' to 'their side'? Or instead are they just inquisitive people trying to find the truth through mountains of (proven) media bullshit?




I don't understand why you are interpreting this in such a negative way. I think we are doing both here: trying to find the truth and somehow attracting people so they can read it.
edit: grammatical error


Hi, Seneca.
You say, "I don't understand why you are interpreting this in such a negative way".
Honestly, is there ANY other way to interpret it? If we take even a cursory glance at this forum's "The Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies" (viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1388&p=2373426
we can quickly and easily find that, in his previous post, the entity named Omaxsteve has transgressed several of the guidelines, including, but not limited to:

"2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit."

"5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule."

"7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive."

"12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues."

"18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'"

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs...."


This is the kind of moronic bullshit we have to deal with in our daily lives, and has the effect of impeding full, frank, and open discussion and, therefore, impedes the learning process. One of the main reasons I love this site is the fact that most members have an innate understanding and dislike of this kind of thing. I'm sure most of us don't even NEED to read the guide to know how dishonest, disruptive and anti-intellectual this kind of behaviour is.

Hell, if I wanted smoke blown up my arse I'd stay at home with a length of hose and a pack of cigarettes!* Or I'd join just about any other available forum on the internet.

I know we all make mistakes and have bad days, but Omaxsteve has been a member here since 2010, ffs! Surely, it would be a bit naive to think that he was unaware of what he was doing? Therefore, until I see evidence to the contrary, I have to believe that he is not acting in good faith on this forum. Is he setting himself up as some sort of gate-keeper to steer people away from such taboo and sacrosanct topics like the holocaust and jews/jewish-ness?
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 7:19 pm

Holocaust Uncovered (1945) - WARNING: Distressing Images


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tGwjwK9pIM

Mavis Tate
"As a member of the Conservative Party, she was elected Member of Parliament (MP) for Willesden West in 1931. In 1935, however, she moved to the constituency of Frome.
It has been alleged that she was an early member of Archibald Ramsay's Right Club from its founding in May 1939, but this seems unlikely as she was one of those protesting publicly against German persecution of the Jews in November 1938."
"Shortly after the end of World War II, Tate travelled with nine others to visit the Buchenwald concentration camp in Germany to report on the result of the atrocities there. She narrated the newsreel of this visit for British Pathé News"

Archibald Maule Ramsay
"On 10 January 1939 the Hon. Mrs Ismay Ramsay gave another speech to the Arbroath Business Club, at which she claimed the national press was "largely under Jewish control", that "an international group of Jews ... were behind world revolution in every single country" and that Hitler "must ... have had his reasons for what he did". The speech was reported in the local newspaper and attracted the attention of the rabbi of the Edinburgh Hebrew Congregation, Dr Salis Daiches, who wrote to The Scotsman challenging Mrs Ramsay to produce evidence. Ramsay wrote on her behalf citing Father Fahey's booklet, and the resulting correspondence lasted for nearly a month—including a letter from 11 Ministers of the Church of Scotland in the County of Peebles repudiating the views of their MP.

Some members of Ramsay's local Conservative Association in Peebles were not pleased by what they considered negative publicity. However, Ramsay reassured them that he would continue to be a supporter of Neville Chamberlain and the National Government. Ramsay made attempts to make controversial speeches to private meetings rather than in public. On 27 April he spoke to a branch of the (anti-semitic) Nordic League in Kilburn, attacking Neville Chamberlain for introducing conscription "at the instigation of the Jews" and claiming that the Conservative Party "relies on ... Jew money"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mavis_Tate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Maule_Ramsay

"In May 1939 Archibald Ramsay founded a secret society called the Right Club. This was an attempt to unify all the different right-wing groups in Britain. Or in the leader's words of "co-ordinating the work of all the patriotic societies". In his autobiography, The Nameless War, Ramsay argued: "The main object of the Right Club was to oppose and expose the activities of Organized Jewry, in the light of the evidence which came into my possession in 1938. Our first objective was to clear the Conservative Party of Jewish influence, and the character of our membership and meetings were strictly in keeping with this objective."

Members of the Right Club included Tate, William Joyce, Anna Wolkoff, Joan Miller, A. K. Chesterton, Francis Yeats-Brown, Lord Redesdale, 5th Duke of Wellington, Duke of Westminster, E. H. Cole, John Stourton, Thomas Hunter, Aubrey Lees, Ernest Bennett, Charles Kerr, Samuel Chapman, John MacKie, James Edmondson, Marquess of Graham, Margaret Bothamley, Earl of Galloway, H. T. Mills, Richard Findlay and Serrocold Skeels.

In 1940 Mavis Tate suffered a nervous breakdown. On her recovery she abandoned her pro-German beliefs and broke away from other members of the Right Club."

http://spartacus-educational.com/SState.htm

"Buchenwald concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager (KZ) Buchenwald, IPA: [ˈbuːxənvalt]; literally, in English: beech forest) was a German Nazi concentration camp established on the Ettersberg (Etter Mountain) near Weimar, Germany, in July 1937, one of the first and the largest of the concentration camps on German soil, following Dachau's opening just over four years earlier.

Prisoners from all over Europe and the Soviet Union—Jews, Poles and other Slavs, the mentally ill and physically-disabled from birth defects, religious and political prisoners, Roma and Sinti, Freemasons, Jehovah's Witnesses (then called Bible Students), criminals, homosexuals, and prisoners of war—worked primarily as forced labor in local armaments factories. From 1945 to 1950, the camp was used by the Soviet occupation authorities as an internment camp, known as NKVD special camp number 2.

Today the remains of Buchenwald serve as a memorial and permanent exhibition and museum"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchenwal ... ation_camp
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby pov603 on October 11th, 2015, 7:45 pm

Morbid a subject as it may be [of course presupposing some of it may be true], it would be interesting to know if these sites of mass burial were later exhumed in order to re-inter the bodies in more 'appropriate' conditions.
I wonder what the records show for this?
Of course Orthodox Jews would not be able to distinguish who of the bodies were Jewish in the first place and would probably object to burials without all the body parts being included or bodies being 'laid to rest' in Christian cemeteries.
Regarding the 'ovens', is it safe to assume that is how people are cremated even today?
The number of people 'passing away' was down to 35 according to the Kathy Burke sound-alike, so wouldn't it be safe practice to dispose of possibly contaminated corpses via cremation?
Why would an entity fighting a technological, resource-consuming war and use ovens to dispose of bodies one-by-one when elsewhere in the same camp it is acceptable to dig a big 'bloomin' hole and stick them in it?
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby ProperGander on October 11th, 2015, 7:50 pm

Very morbid subject.

"How hot does the cremation chamber get?

The cremation chamber will range from 1600 to 1700 degrees Fahrenheit."

"Typically the entire process takes about 5 hours although the actual time for the body to be consumed is approximately 3 hours. Read more..."

http://www.acremation.com/frequently-as ... ions/#long
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Critical Mass on October 12th, 2015, 3:25 am

pov603 wrote:It would be interesting to know if these sites of mass burial were later exhumed in order to re-inter the bodies in more 'appropriate' conditions.

Exhumations? They are forbidden under Jewish law.

Sites of mass burial?

Currently, as of 2015, no sites of mass Holocaust burial have been found. Even a 'true blue' Holocaust believer* will not try to find them.

'Deniers' have done their own investigations... but they, of course, 'don't count'.



* As 'seen on TV'
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Critical Mass on October 12th, 2015, 4:02 am

arc300 wrote:"2. Become incredulous and indignant.

"5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule."

"7. Question motives.

"12. Enigmas have no solution.

"18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents.

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs...."

I'd also, at the very least, add...

4. Use a straw man

For, as far as I can tell, no-one on Earth has claimed this...

Another issue I have is the extent to which "they" could have distorted reality? Were Jews in Nazi germany allowed to live freely, work, own businesses, buy property, etc?
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Seneca on October 12th, 2015, 7:17 am

Critical Mass wrote:I'd also, at the very least, add...

4. Use a straw man

For, as far as I can tell, no-one on Earth has claimed this...

Another issue I have is the extent to which "they" could have distorted reality? Were Jews in Nazi germany allowed to live freely, work, own businesses, buy property, etc?

True, but I don't think he was not claiming anybody did. It looked to me he was just speculating about what was the possible extent of the hoax.

Another issue I have is the extent to which "they" could have distorted reality? Were Jews in Nazi germany allowed to live freely, work, own businesses, buy property, etc? Or were they imprisoned, and put in camps, without having committed any crime other than being Jewish? .

Assuming that they (Jews ) were persecuted, and imprisoned, but there were no mass executions...
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby Seneca on October 12th, 2015, 7:32 am

This quote from Steve looks imho more like a straw man:

omaxsteve wrote:Exactly what advantage is gained by the average good and law abiding Jewish citizen of today from holocaust denial being criminalized?


To answer your questions, Steve:
Assuming that they (Jews ) were persecuted, and imprisoned, but there were no mass executions, would that be considered a crime? If they were just rounded up, tattooed, put on boats and expelled from Germany would that have been acceptable?

Would it be any more, or less, acceptable if a country committed that type of atrocity to any ethnic group?

1)Yes 2)No 3) No

I hope you can see that these kind of questions are very insulting for this forum. I also hope you are not being ironic here, Because I really feel concern toward these babies and other children who are potentially traumatized.
In the Jewish conspiracy thread, it seemed like many here were concerned for the poor babies psychological health after the trauma of circumcision.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby ICfreely on October 12th, 2015, 9:04 am

Abe Foxman and (Armenian) Holocaust Denial

I don’t see how anyone can take shysters like Abe Foxman & Jesse Jackson seriously.

Abe Foxman’s Genocide Denial Road Show
by JOHN WALSH
August 22, 2007
It seemed innocuous enough at first. Watertown, a suburb of Boston, sported a sign on the Town Hall, proclaiming the town a participant in an anti-bigotry program "No Place for Hate." But one of the good citizens of Watertown with libertarian inclinations objected that the sign seemed like some kind of PC thought control. His objections set in motion investigations by the town mothers and fathers into the program. Lo and behold, it was sponsored by Abe Foman’s Jewish Anti-Defamation League (ADL).

In itself this sponsorship might not be a problem, unless you are a Muslim, an Arab or a Palestinian and know full well the ADL’s positions on bigotry. But there are over 8000 Armenian-Americans in Watertown, and the ADL has long denied that the Turkish massacre of 1.5 million Armenians from 1915 to 1923 amounted to genocide. Turkey is of course an ally and arms purchaser of Israel’s, but the denial antedates this alliance. A good friend of mine, an Israeli expatriate, tells me that when he went to school in Israel, mention of the Armenian genocide was verboten so as not to detract from the "uniqueness" of the Jewish genocide under the Nazis and to maintain a "monopoly on suffering," as he puts it. Shoah business does not like the competition.

The whole matter in Watertown was given added urgency by a resolution now pending in Congress calling on Turkey to recognize the Armenian genocide. This resolution is supported by the Armenian community and opposed by the national ADL.

Anger began to mount in Watertown and the citizens called on the city mothers and fathers to withdraw from the ADL-sponsored program. (ADL Dollars and awards flow to participating towns.) The Watertown Town Council called a meeting which was packed with a lot of angry Armenians. Regional ADL director Andrew Tarsey came to the meeting to defend the ADL genocide denial, (as had the ADL’s national director, Abe Foxman, in an interview with the Boston Globe,) and to call on the town to stick with the "No Place for Hate" program. Tarsey was booed out of the hall with hisses and catcalls. At that the town mothers and fathers voted unanimously to quit the program, and at the cost of overtime for two city workers the sign was gone before dawn.

Tarsey was unable to prevail with his genocide denial and couldn’t move Foxman and the national ADL to reverse course. Tarsey then reversed his position and agreed that Armenians had indeed endured a genocide.They then cut through the Gordian Knot by firing Tarsey. Two local ADL board members duly resigned in protest. The rest stood by their man, Foxman.
Tarsey is now hailed repeatedly as a "hero" by local Jewish leaders. If armies were composed of such heroes, every battle would culminate in mutual mass retreat. Notably and unusually, the city of Watertown and its council were not labeled anti-semitic by the ADL and its assorted acolytes. Even Alan Dershowitz did not raise a peep. This seems to be a kind of sea change, and it may have something to do with the Lobby’s weaker position now that it is more widely seen. post Mearsheimer and Walt, as a principal instigator of the disastrous war on Iraq.

At this point the Boston Jewish community was divided. Foxman was under pressure, and Armenian-Americans from across the country were getting involved. How to respond? With a big expensive newspaper ad of course. And how did Foxman’s ad make his case? By blaming it on the Jews! Specificially the Jews of Turkey whom Foxman and company claim would be endangered by a change in the ADL position. But there have been many reports of the tolerance shown to Jews in Turkey, as one letter writer to the Boston Globe noted. The Foxman ad also let the Israeli cat out of the bag, saying, "We are also aware that Turkey is a key strategic ally and friend of the United States and a staunch friend of Israel." (Some staunch friend if it were true that Turkey was persecuting Turkish Jews. What a tangled web has been woven by ADL.) But of course the ADL was only stating its long-time position that Israel comes first ¬ way before any consideration of human rights.

Two days ago, the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Boston (JCRC) known for its pro-Iraq war stance, its Iran bashing and its opposition to Palestinian rights joined the fray. It sent out a letter repudiating Foxmam’s genocide denial ¬ and claiming it recognized the Armenian genocide long long ago ¬ in fact in 2005, although this received scant notice until now. Let’s see; the genocide happened in 1915 and the JCRC recognized it in 2005 ¬ after the passage of 90 years. By that logic Holocaust denial should be OK for another 13 years.

Today Foxman and his national ADL, hastily joining the local ADL in full retreat, have pronounced the Armenian slaughter is a genocide after all. Upon reflection and with the help of that great humanitarian, Elie Wiesel, who seems to be acting as a kind of Jewish Billy Graham and who has never acknowledged the injustice done the Palestinians, Foxman thinks that it was a genocide after all. (Of course according to their newspaper ad of several days back this means that the national ADL is now abandoning Turkish Jewry to a horrible fate.) ADL was in fact founded in 1913 just before the onset of the Armenian genocide, so ADL’s acknowledgement is not overly hasty. Perhaps the ADL’s new slogan could be "Building on 100 years of Genocide Denial."

http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/08/22/abe-foxman-s-genocide-denial-road-show/
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