Was J.F.K. murdered?

Global War deceptions & mass manipulation, fear-mongering terror schemes and propaganda in the Age of the Bomb

Postby idschmyd on July 22nd, 2010, 11:39 pm

Brutal Metal @ Jul 22 2010, 05:39 AM wrote: JFK's assassination WASN'T faked, one of my best friends great grandfather was Roy Kellerman the Secret Service agent in the passenger seat, he as well as Many Parkland doctors saw the Huge gaping wound in the back of the skull as well as the crew at Walter Reed! The man has been dead since Nov 22 1963!
Yours Truly
CJH
Senior Researcher JFKMI!


Ever speak to the ol' boy, or is this distant connection somehow the leverage you need to claim to have eyes in the heads of doctors at Parkland?

If not, what are your sources?

(You've been alive since you were born, but it helps none to say so and it would be incongruous to mention it now).

The discussion Hoi intended, if I'm not mistaken, was into whether or not JFK was killed, and if not, what exactly was done with him. Expecting to see some sharp Shack shooters cut through the chaos on this one, the thread quickly starts to look like all that has gone before. A load of waffle and blurred imagery. Regurgitating the script of Olly Stone's film doens't help.
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Postby simonshack on July 23rd, 2010, 1:37 am

*

Well Idschmyd,

I may just have one thing to say about the Zapruder film which I frankly wonder why no one has noticed after all these years.
Now, Culto's observation of that thing running up JFK's face is absolutely valid - it certainly looks like a device- and not like any "brain matter":

Image

But it is JUST AFTER THIS MOMENT that another absurd thing happens:

JACKIE GRABS JFK'S NECK AND PULLS IT DOWN !

Look at this close-up version from frame 322 to 342 (try looping it between these frames).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-cri43t ... re=related

She's evidently hauling JFK's head down into the car seat quite decisively. Don't know if that's a natural thing to do in such circumstances... <_<
Ask yourself: Why did she do that? Of course, you might say : "She had the presence of mind to get JFK's head out of (more) harm's way". Yes, that could well be - but her reaction seems surprisingly decisive (as if rehearsed) and then...she climbs out on the back of the car? :huh: That is something that has always puzzled me: What if that was rehearsed too - to focus maximum attention on Jackie (and to ensure that JFK's head disappeared as soon as possible from view)? If I were the director of a staged film (to fake JFK's death) that would certainly be an option I would have considered.

Now, of course the zillions of JFK theories have probably never considered it might have been a hoax ?-l?-Berlusconi (i.e. JFK - and Jackie - staging his own demise). Just as his head 'explodes', watch JFK's right arm motion. And if you look at that same video (linked above) BEFORE the head 'exploding', you will see that JFK raises his arms in front of his chest and actually seems to reach for something - kind of "behind his tie". I will speculate that this was a bit too visible in the original footage - and that's why the 'Zapruder' footage wasn't shown until a long time after the fact: they had to fiddle and crop the video so as to hide JFK's hand movements around his chest (in fact, a flickering lower 'banner' helps hiding precisely that area of the action). Just my two cents - but I hope they're not just "loose change" ... :lol:
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Postby brianv on July 23rd, 2010, 3:06 am

Wow! Is she "firing" some exloding prostethic attached to his jaw? I've never really looked at "Ceann Eide" too much, but that's weird!
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Postby simonshack on July 23rd, 2010, 3:26 am

Almost 50 years on...Italian Boss Berlusconi was also hit in the face. And survived.

Image

Image

Image


Sadly, NEDA apparently did not survive the "Heinz Ketchup" clogging her nostrils.

Image
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby idschmyd on July 23rd, 2010, 10:34 am

simonshack 4 Jul 23 2010, 01:37 AM wrote:*

Well Idschmyd,

I may just have one thing to say about the Zapruder film which I frankly wonder why no one has noticed after all these years.
Now, Culto's observation of that thing running up JFK's face is absolutely valid - it certainly looks like a device- and not like any "brain matter":

Image

But it is JUST AFTER THIS MOMENT that another absurd thing happens:

JACKIE GRABS JFK'S NECK AND PULLS IT DOWN !

Look at this close-up version from frame 322 to 342 (try looping it between these frames).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-cri43t ... re=related

She's evidently hauling JFK's head down into the car seat quite decisively. Don't know if that's a natural thing to do in such circumstances... <_<
Ask yourself: Why did she do that? Of course, you might say : "She had the presence of mind to get JFK's head out of (more) harm's way". Yes, that could well be - but her reaction seems surprisingly decisive (as if rehearsed) and then...she climbs out on the back of the car? :huh: That is something that has always puzzled me: What if that was rehearsed too - to focus maximum attention on Jackie (and to ensure that JFK's head disappeared as soon as possible from view)? If I were the director of a staged film (to fake JFK's death) that would certainly be an option I would have considered.

Now, of course the zillions of JFK theories have probably never considered it might have been a hoax ?-l?-Berlusconi (i.e. JFK - and Jackie - staging his own demise). Just as his head 'explodes', watch JFK's right arm motion. And if you look at that same video (linked above) BEFORE the head 'exploding', you will see that JFK raises his arms in front of his chest and actually seems to reach for something - kind of "behind his tie". I will speculate that this was a bit too visible in the original footage - and that's why the 'Zapruder' footage wasn't shown until a long time after the fact: they had to fiddle and crop the video so as to hide JFK's hand movements around his chest (in fact, a flickering lower 'banner' helps hiding precisely that area of the action). Just my two cents - but I hope they're not just "loose change" ... :lol:


Hm. Won't apologise for hopping on the hobby horse but the embarrassment is real. Culto's observations were new to me and I had spent a few minutes staring at the vid and found it interesting. I kinda diverted to the easier business of bashing hearsay. Error! Johnnie F is sure not holding his neck, due to shot wounds or anything else, but seems to be preparing something, getting ready for Jackie to get on with some job. Worth more time... will return.
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Postby idschmyd on July 23rd, 2010, 10:54 am

It makes more sense that Jackie abandons her wounded husband and jumps to collect some flying incriminating evidence rather than his brain! Would also explain why the driver slows down. More interesting...
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Postby Heiwa on July 23rd, 2010, 7:07 pm

When John F and Jackie O move left aft, all other occupants of the vehicle suddenly move right or forward, so one question is how did the vehicle move? It is a lousy movie. Does anybody believe that crap?
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Postby simonshack on July 23rd, 2010, 7:56 pm

Heiwa 4 Jul 23 2010, 06:07 PM wrote: When John F and Jackie O move left aft, all other occupants of the vehicle suddenly move right or forward, so one question is how did the vehicle move? It is a lousy movie. Does anybody believe that crap?


Yes Heiwa,

I see what you mean. But please bear with me for a few considerations:

- I do not believe they had the same means as today to animate the whole scene from scratch. I am more inclined to believe the scene was staged and filmed with a normal camera (and retouched afterwards to correct things that went wrong).

- As you rightly observe, the drivers and the Connallies are projected forward (as if the driver slammed on the brakes) - while the Kennedys are not. (So the oft speculated theory that the limousine braked hard and came to a standstill does not hold water.)

Instead, it seems the 4 in the front are lunging forward as if they were given a cue to do so (perhaps by JFK himself going - "3-2-1--NOW" - just before popping off that strange device on his face?).

Two more cents of mine, sorry - couldn't resist. <_<
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby simonshack on July 23rd, 2010, 8:40 pm

But enough (at least for me) with scrutinizing the Zapruder film. The endless, bewildering controversies about this piece of footage (and its many versions with missing/or damaged frames and whatnot) probably set the stage for the public's current skepticism of the value of imagery to represent any sort of trustworthy evidence...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapruder_film

I'd like to review some other evidence - and I don't care if some people cannot/or won't accept human demeanor/behavior as evidence.

Do you remember the Apollo11 press conference with Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins making complete fools of themselves, looking comically embarassed?

Well, let's have a look at FIRSTHAND witness John Connally (apparently also hit by an Oswald bullet... :rolleyes: ) :

"JOHN CONNALLY IN HOSPITAL"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP04_lGjkO0

"JOHN CONNALLY SPEAKING EMOTIONALLY ABOUT..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4svgOqQmS3o

The question is, after viewing these interviews: On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate his sincerity/credibility?
Does his bedside interview look legit/or staged? Now, if your rating is 10 ("he looks and sounds like a foul-faced liar"), then we have to ask (if any of the gazillions of "mainstream JFK conspiracies" are true) : Since he was sitting in the same car which was apparently shot at, would John Connally have taken the risk to be killed himself? Was he really shot in the back as per the mainstream belief? Or is it more reasonable to believe that no shots were fired and that it was all staged?
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Postby Culto on July 24th, 2010, 12:45 am

JACKIE GRABS JFK'S NECK AND PULLS IT DOWN !

Look at this close-up version from frame 322 to 342 (try looping it between these frames).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-cri43t ... re=related

She's evidently hauling JFK's head down into the car seat quite decisively. Don't know if that's a natural thing to do in such circumstances...
Ask yourself: Why did she do that? Of course, you might say : "She had the presence of mind to get JFK's head out of (more) harm's way". Yes, that could well be - but her reaction seems surprisingly decisive (as if rehearsed) and then...she climbs out on the back of the car? That is something that has always puzzled me: What if that was rehearsed too - to focus maximum attention on Jackie (and to ensure that JFK's head disappeared as soon as possible from view)? If I were the director of a staged film (to fake JFK's death) that would certainly be an option I would have considered.



This is the reason why I referred to the white rope/cord/tube which Jackie holds in her right hand.
In http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DwKK4rkeEM move between 2.26 - 2.27.

It's difficult to see, but Jackie seems trying to 'tie' 2 parts of these white cords together.
I will try to make a decent GIF of this.

At Z326 something has slipped out of Jackie's right hand. It looks like a small white tube which rolls on the trunk towards the back of the limo.
My speculation is that this object was needed somehow to fix the headwound-device before JFK would 'slump'.
In a reflex to get this essential thing back, Jackie jumps out of her seated position, in which she was supposed to continue after the 'headshot'.

Some no-Zapruder film related issues:

Why didn't anyone of those Kennedy-buffs in all these 46 years compare the bloodstain pattern on Jackie's seating position in the limo with
the bloodstain pattern on her legendary 'bloodstained suit'?
Image

Image

Her bottom and her upper-legs should have been much more 'bloodstained'.


And what about Ruby 'shooting' Lee Harvey Oswald?? <_< :unsure:

No gunsmoke, no weapon-recoil, no blood: Another crappy fakery.
Nellie Connally's 'Hollywood-blood' would have been very useful to make this scene look a bit less staged....
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Postby hoi.polloi on July 24th, 2010, 1:59 pm

Well done Culto!
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Postby Brutal Metal on July 24th, 2010, 8:22 pm

Thank you for fixing my Login hoi.polloi I look forward to particpiating in this thread further, I'll try and add stuff later tonight!! :mellow:
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Postby Brutal Metal on July 24th, 2010, 8:36 pm

Culto 4 Jul 24 2010, 12:45 AM wrote:
JACKIE GRABS JFK'S NECK AND PULLS IT DOWN !

Look at this close-up version from frame 322 to 342 (try looping it between these frames).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-cri43t ... re=related

She's evidently hauling JFK's head down into the car seat quite decisively. Don't know if that's a natural thing to do in such circumstances...
Ask yourself: Why did she do that? Of course, you might say : "She had the presence of mind to get JFK's head out of (more) harm's way". Yes, that could well be - but her reaction seems surprisingly decisive (as if rehearsed) and then...she climbs out on the back of the car? That is something that has always puzzled me: What if that was rehearsed too - to focus maximum attention on Jackie (and to ensure that JFK's head disappeared as soon as possible from view)? If I were the director of a staged film (to fake JFK's death) that would certainly be an option I would have considered.



This is the reason why I referred to the white rope/cord/tube which Jackie holds in her right hand.
In http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DwKK4rkeEM move between 2.26 - 2.27.

It's difficult to see, but Jackie seems trying to 'tie' 2 parts of these white cords together.
I will try to make a decent GIF of this.

At Z326 something has slipped out of Jackie's right hand. It looks like a small white tube which rolls on the trunk towards the back of the limo.
My speculation is that this object was needed somehow to fix the headwound-device before JFK would 'slump'.
In a reflex to get this essential thing back, Jackie jumps out of her seated position, in which she was supposed to continue after the 'headshot'.

Some no-Zapruder film related issues:

Why didn't anyone of those Kennedy-buffs in all these 46 years compare the bloodstain pattern on Jackie's seating position in the limo with
the bloodstain pattern on her legendary 'bloodstained suit'?
Image

Image

Her bottom and her upper-legs should have been much more 'bloodstained'.


And what about Ruby 'shooting' Lee Harvey Oswald?? <_< :unsure:

No gunsmoke, no weapon-recoil, no blood: Another crappy fakery.
Nellie Connally's 'Hollywood-blood' would have been very useful to make this scene look a bit less staged....


Although I'm in opposition to your whole JFK Kill shot being Fake I like your last paragraph Culto, there's always been a lingering question if that was the REAL Lee Oswald at the gravesite, when the body was exhumed to determine the authenticity(which was a media circus in itself!) the coroner that dressed and put him in the coffin knew something wasn't right, first off there was a crack on the lid and the seal was broken which seemed very odd to the gravediggers, they said it had been tampered with BUT the biggest smoking gun was the how the head looked, there was ZERO signs that an autopsy was performed, no suture marks anywhere?? How the hell did the coroner remove the brain then? HE even said it wasn't the man he put in that coffin..
If you have a chance to see the forensic pathologist's press conference she says
"We are SURE 100% SURE that the man in that grave is Lee Harvey Oswald!"
She was definitely coached on exactly what to say, you can see it in her demeanor and tone.. And Yeah that most likely was the REAL Lee BUT it's not the first man that was put in that coffin!
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Postby JPE on August 13th, 2010, 9:26 am

Also in the interview with the funeral director was that "Secret Service" men fingerprinted the body before he embalmed it. Any explanation of why someone they would already have fingerprints on and who was in custody the whole time would need to be identified?

BTW, new here and hello.
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Postby Tufa on August 13th, 2010, 2:07 pm

No, sorry, I have a problem understanding why the JFK assassination would be a total bogus fake-lie. A first problem, having a stand-in, is not that easy, as some people are very skilled in spotting a new face. Alternatively, having the president surviving the shoot-out you still need a warm body in the seat when you arrive at the hospital. The main problem is what you would do with a surviving JFK afterwards; it could get somewhat embarrassing should he turn up in a TV show or so. My question is: if you discontinue the JFK's policy, what use would you have of him afterwards? If he survives he would likely meet with his children. Then they can also turn up in a TV show. I fail to see any operative advantage, apart from a humanitarian one, keeping him alive.

An advantage, though, like in the 911, no killing -> no crime!
Please forward your thoughts on this.

I would now like to put in another question: Why use such a complicated set-up?
It is evidently possibly to shoot from the 6:th floor and have a high kill-rate if you shoot while the car go towards you. You don't need any fancy weapon either, and if the shooter empty the gun into the car, this make the pattern of a mad-man.
If you have help at the hospital, you can arrange so that death is certain. The advantage would be that claiming a single shooter would be a bit easier.

In any case I agree with the findings by the JFK researchers, so I don't agree with the all-fake-and-bogus theory.
JFK died instantly in the car, there was no stand-in, and even if alternatives are possible, some kind of substance or strategic/operative advantage is needed... here.
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