CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.

CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby simonshack on January 3rd, 2015, 6:34 pm

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CHEMTRAILS AND HAARP - mystery solved?

ImageImage

Ok, so excuse me for the pretentious-sounding "mystery solved?" headline - I'm only being a bit provocative here, in order to encourage you to read what, necessarily, needs to be a fairly long post. As ever, I will do my best to simplify my thoughts - so as not to overwhelm the reader with too much material and data regarding what is, for now, just a working theory. However, I trust you will find it an interesting and - perhaps - even a rather compelling one.

To be sure, CHEMTRAILS and HAARP are among the top / favorite subjects debated by the growing crowd of so-called "conspiracy theorists" (which, of course, is the demeaning / dismissive tag that knee-jerking people-sheeple will attach to freethinkers such as us - on this very forum ... but we are getting used to that, I guess). However, and as our regular members / readers will know, Cluesforum has not been debating much about HAARP or CHEMTRAILS - and I have oft cautioned and, admittedly, even discouraged debating about these topics here, since I just couldn't make any sense out of the absurd, mind-numbing plethora of sinister theories surrounding these two subjects - and (intuitively) smelled that something was amiss... I now feel ready to take on these two (interconnected) 'mysteries' - and you will soon understand why.

So let's see: here's a shortlist of the countless, sinister things that (the now closed down) HAARP facilities have been theorized to cause / be responsible for - as put forth by the worldwide "conspiracy-crowd" over the years:

- "HAARP is a military tool to control / modify weather patterns at will"
- "HAARP can trigger earthquakes / floods / hurricanes / tsunamis"
- "HAARP can control our minds / brains - through electromagnetic means"
- "HAARP can disable satellites - or bring down airliners - or the Space Shuttle Columbia" (!!!!) :lol:

Am I making all this up? Well, here's from Wikipedia:
"HAARP was a target of conspiracy theorists, who claimed that it was capable of modifying weather, disabling satellites and exerting mind control over people, and that it was being used as a weapon against terrorists. Such theorists blamed the program for causing earthquakes, droughts, storms and floods, diseases such as Gulf War Syndrome and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, the 1996 crash of TWA Flight 800, and the 2003 destruction of the space shuttle Columbia. Commentators and scientists say that proponents of these theories are "uninformed", because most theories put forward fall well outside the abilities of the facility and often outside the scope of natural science."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequ ... ch_Program


Of course, we then got the silly mainstream-media-diffused-video-story starring clown Jesse Ventura traveling up to the HAARP facilities - and being denied entry (when, in fact, HAARP notoriously held open days to the visiting public)...

Let's now look at the various, sinister conspiracy theories circulating - regarding the CHEMTRAILS issue:

- "CHEMTRAILS are toxic chemicals sprayed upon the people for depopulation purposes."
- "CHEMTRAILS are chemicals sprayed for geo-engineering / modifying crops, etc, etc..."
- "CHEMTRAILS are for weather control / modification or / and are the root cause for global warming
- "CHEMTRAILS are sprayed to protect micro-circuitry and semiconductors from solar radiation" (!!!!) :lol:

Had you never heard of that last, preposterous / hilarious theory? Well here is a typical website promoting this sort of bullshit:
"In this article you will learn that chemtrails are real and contain aluminum particles. They have been sprayed in the atmosphere in an attempt to protect micro-circuitry and semiconductors -- primarily involved with avionics -- from atmospheric and solar radiation that causes them to fail. (...) So is there really another reason for the chemtrails? Absolutely. It was the late Edward Teller, member of the Manhattan Project and father of the Hydrogen Bomb, co-founder and director of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, who proposed this geo-engineering technique together with Roderick Hyde and Lowell Wood and who designed a variety of mixtures according to the specific tasks they have to perform, among which figure the deployment of "electrically-conducting sheets" or "metallic 'nets' of ultra-fine mesh-spacing" in the stratosphere. But their concern wasn't global warming. It was the growing dependence on, and vulnerability to semiconductors."


Alright, so I promised you (the reader) to keep this really brief and simple. So here we go:

HAARP's official website (before it closed down) said that what they did there with their big antennaes - was only to study the ionosphere / so as to try and enhance the ionosphere's natural reflectivity of radio / TV telecommunication waves. In other words - and to put it really simply - , HAARP was nothing sinister at all (well, not in a deadly / homicidal way, that is): its purpose was just to find better / more efficient ways of bouncing more and more TV signals into our homes - so as to diffuse their propaganda to ever more people.

HAARP (Wikipedia): "Its purpose is to analyze the ionosphere and investigate the potential for developing ionospheric enhancement technology for radio communications and surveillance."

Now, keep in mind that HAARP was established in 1993, and the mid-nineties is when the CHEMTRAIL theories started surfacing:
"In 1996, a chemtrail conspiracy theory began to circulate when the United States Air Force (USAF) was accused of "spraying the U.S. population with mysterious substances" from aircraft "generating unusual contrail patterns."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_ ... acy_theory


So, without further ado, let me just submit this possible, "WHAT IF" scenario:

WHAT IF they soon discovered (thanks to their HAARP studies) that, in order to improve / enhance (or even supplant) the natural, ionospheric Skywave propagation of telecommunication waves (including GPS and such), they needed to spray aluminum and barium particles in the sky at a certain altitude ? And what if all this mind-numbing conspiracy chatter about HAARP and CHEMTRAILS is just a way to deflect / misdirect from the fact (established by our collective Cluesforum research) that NASA's purported man-made satellites are a massive hoax - and do not exist?

The debate is open. Please feel free to contribute with your thoughts.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby simonshack on January 3rd, 2015, 9:05 pm

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Addendum:


I really need to add this addendum (for the record) to the above post - and to credit "P from the UK" (who wishes to remain anonymous for personal reasons - and I can respect that) for reviving my interest in this subject. As it is, the idea of "CHEMTRAILS" and HAARP being, in actuality, 'substitutes' for the non-existing NASA communication satellites had been trotting in my mind for a while - yet I never got down to share it here on Cluesforum (although I did mention it on some Italian chemtrail Facebook chatline, a year ago or so). "P" gave me the permission to publish on the forum his private e-mail to me - so here it is.


Private e-mail sent to me by "P from England" - on December 18, 2014:

Hello Simon,
my name's [xxxxx xxxxx] & I'm from [xxxxx], England.

I've been slowly working my way through the Cluesforum archive for a few months now, whilst recovering from a bad ankle injury that kept me off work. I think it's a very important & accurate body of work, by far the best of it's kind on the web.

I avoided looking into the subject of 'chemtrails' (or 'persistent contrails' as NASA/govt. sources describe them) until very recently; like most people I thought they'd just be ordinary contrails & thus more fear-mongering Icke-ist claptrap like 'reptilian blood- lines', 'Nibiru' etc.

However, after watching just a few videos, doing a minimum of Googling & considering my own experiences aeroplane spotting as a child in the 1970s I now believe chemtrails are a real phenomenon; having established that my next question was 'Why?'

As you likely know, there are many theories doing the rounds; Geo-engineering is the most popular, along with Population Control, Weather-Weaponry, Anti-Alien shields, blah-blah, etc, etc, usually tied in with the super-spooky/conspiracy-candy HAARP facility.

I found none of these the least convincing for the following reasons: why would the Perps spray poison on themselves or take the chance of ruining the climate of the only planet they've got? It's not like they can escape into space is it? And the weather system is far too chaotic to control accurately & would require an impossible amount of energy to do so anyhow.. Ditto 'earthquake weapons', a ridiculous idea... & just fuck anything to do with Aliens!

However, having done a bit of research (the initial idea for which was sparked by Cluesforum, thank you) I'm now 99.9% sure I know the reason for Chemtrails; what's more one that is entirely consistent with the bulk of Cluesforum's research.

As far as I know no-one else on the web has advanced this theory, which may seem odd but you'll soon see why...


Ok here goes, my theory on the reason for chemtrails:

Firstly, unless you understand that satellites DO NOT exist then you CAN NOT understand why chemtrails DO exist; this fact alone excludes the vast majority of the population from realising the truth.

What we know as GPS & satellite comms are in fact achieved by bouncing signals off the ionosphere; the technology for this was being established from WW2 on & much of it to this day remains classified (see the posts by Reichstag Fireman on your 'satellite musings' thread for details).

However, the ionosphere was not entirely reliable as a reflecting medium; thus modification was desirable. This has been achieved through the mass-spraying of Barium & Aluminium salts from planes (barium is the most consisitent contender on the web for chemtrail content btw, with aluminium 2nd); when these reach the ionosphere they are catalysed by solar radiation & enhance radio-wave reflectivity (n.b. it is possible that they are further catalysed by microwave radiation from HAARP; however I'm not sure of HAARP's place in all this yet.. it could be simply an observation platform, or maybe a back-up in case sunlight/UV alone wasn't powerful enough? Whatever, it's being shut down now so was clearly unnecessary in the long term plan - or simply didn't work - except as an excellent distraction!)

So, that's the bare bones of my theory: chemtrails consist of barium & aluminium salts which enhance radio wave reflectivity of the ionosphere in order to facilitate the ground based version of what is supposedly 'gps/satellite-comms' capability.

I admit that the science side is threadbare but then I am no scientist; however, if you google search the words 'ionosphere, barium, skywave, aluminium' (but definitely NOT the word 'chemtrails'!) then a ton of goodies come up, i.e. technical pdfs, govt/defence force papers, patents etc. Interestingly, many of these papers openly state they are concerned with enhancing the ionosphere's reflectivity but then but cite things like 'over-the-horizon-radar' or just 'research' as the reason for them. I'm certain the technical data is all out there, hidden in plain sight, if you only care to look for it & know how to interpret it..

There is also a good article by a radio ham on 'copaseticflow.blogspot.com' re: 'operation smokepuff' that supports my ideas (check out the patent in his references; it mentions barium & radio reflectivity. The 'sign-writing in the sky' part is just a smokescreen imo, ho-ho!), as well as a post on 'rense.com' that I think gets the 'how & what' of chemtrails correct before then failing on the 'why' i.e. blaming geo-engineering... Again!

I have a few more observations, i.e. how i think chemtrails have in fact somewhat enhanced solar radiation (but only slightly & not to a dangerous extent), which the perps guessed could happen & thus created the whole global warming scam to take advantage of (plus they could pretend to use their non-existent satellites to 'confirm' the warming that the very thing they're doing to hide the satellite's non-existence is in fact causing... Bet they got extra-twisted lols out of that!), how the chemtrail op seemed to get going around the same time as GPS, global warming, mobile phones, satellite comms, the internet etc, i.e. the early 1990's..

They're all 1 big inter-connected scam imo.

Ok, I'm done.. that's all I got. Clearly further research is necessary to really nail it all down but I'm satisfied the basic concept is sound.

So. Now you may well ask why am i e-mailing you with all this & not just joining Cluesforum to post it myself? Well, for a start because you've stated you want to avoid the chemtrail subject until more evidence comes up. And secondly because I don't really want to join any forum; I keep a deliberately minimal web-presence for personal reasons. But I had to tell someone my idea; I believe chemtrails are very much a media fakery issue & as such do deserve recognition on Cluesforum.

Thus I think you're the best person around to entrust it to; I'm sure that once you've considered the information I've sent you'll do the right thing with it.

Whether that's to dismiss it entirely, or post it publicly after revision/checking, or just discuss it privately, or whatever; I trust your judgement.

Please e-mail me if you want to discuss anything or have questions. For example, I haven't gone into great detail as to why I believe chemtrails to be real; I'd be happy to go through my reasons with you if desired. I realise you must be tired of being approached by seemingly- friendly/helpful strangers who turn out to be acting in bad faith but I assure you I am not one of them.

All the best & thank you for all the good work you have done,
regards
[xxxxxx.]
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby hoi.polloi on January 3rd, 2015, 9:43 pm

Simon, thank you for doing enough research into this to feel confident about having some clear, logical stance on it. Thank you also for opening up (a fair) debate on the subject. I will be happy to contribute my moderation, but also feel free to moderate me.

So, in the interest of fairness, I want to remain open to the possibilities that you have either sorted out another mystery or that you are too quick to dismiss polluted avenues because they have been deliberately polluted.

I think there may be something to the idea that the ionosphere-boosting and -stabilizing particles may also have some adverse health effect. I think I buy the story that it is, as you suggest, of primary importance that:

1. the chemical trails both lower and stabilize the ionosphere, thereby assisting the broadcasts of propaganda and other mainstream communications

and

2. the reasons for this are ignored and obscured, and subjects on it derailed, to hide the primary importance of the communications monopoly

But I think it is possible that a main reason for the obscurity could be that they do not wish people to know how callously they regard its primary importance — its priority above the health of citizens. As a result of the use of this technology, I think that it is perfectly feasible that in addition to the initial communications functions, the system has naturally evolved (due to those in control of it) into other functions.

I believe that our somewhat unique revelations about the depth of the propaganda motive gives us a new and powerful insight into the evolution of our government's corruption.

A propaganda system, and the primal defense of such, was the initial methodology of taking the civilian technology of cloud seeding and bringing it back into the fold of the military-industrial complex.

I propose for your consideration that the mass spraying was found to cause detriments in public health, but it was still seen as a priori of higher priority to control the minds of the civilians than protect their bodies. As a result, perhaps some leniency has been brought to Federal health policy, as a sort of non-consensual "exchange" with the public — increased public advisory health messages/concern in exchange for the propaganda method of delivering such messages. e.g.; "Watch your health" broadcast in an unhealthy way.

On the other hand, darker more cynical and even perhaps more deluded or psychotic forces in the State organization, witnessing the exchange decided to push for further Nazi-like and Public Relations-related studies. As a result, the ionosphere spraying program, initially started as a propaganda service, evolved into a drug program. Perhaps the use of the neurotoxin, flouride, was given as the best example of a comparable precedent for industrial-military-State collaboration. So organizations that would normally block such a thing could easily be argued, behind closed doors and without public oversight, into going forth with drug programs.

Edit: In response to the idea that the elites would not drug themselves, I would remind you that many of them do not live in typical areas of mass concentration, and they probably do not drink fluoridated water should they choose to opt out. I don't think you even need to mention the idea that a lot of them are ignorant of these programs or that the reason they may support them is because they genuinely do not believe the programs pose the health risks they do. This is the same culture of people that are actively working against natural therapy and trying to get us hooked on pharmaceuticals for all health solutions. I don't doubt many would religiously rely on "pharma" for their health and don't believe we deserve (or at least require) a choice in the matter.

Meanwhile, imaginative thinktanks in the Club of Rome or CFR variety, who believe in population control, would be attracted to this thinking. As a result, the propaganda service went from the business of controlling minds to controlling bodies to controlling life and death. Their thoughts turned to the Psychological Operation of "global warming" and weather modifications. This kind of crowd would seem innocuous to the scientists dealing with hard, cold facts like mass drug effects on human populations. However, this CFR type of crowd would actually prove perhaps even more megalomaniacal than the other groups, for their motive of involvement in this now inextricably, embarrassingly clandestine program, would be control and domination of the very ecosphere.

Hence, average PR became connected to a particular "Global Warming" campaign that started in the 50's and increased exponentially through the public's relationship to oil — a symbol of citizens' autonomy given to them by military actions. If this connection does not seem clear to you, please consider the novel concept that a company like Goldman Sachs, through investments and private dialogues, may control fluctuation of gas prices for the elite. If "Global Warming" is the hoax we suspect, but weather modification technology has continued unabated, the idea of manufacturing a "helpless public" that requires the military system for weather regulation would certainly add fuel to the flame, so to speak. Can they truly modify weather as well as they claim? It's doubtful. This is not as important as the fact that they have the best means at an attempt, and Al Gore reminds of this through probably daily viewings of his Inconvenient Truth propaganda. Conspiracies about it are equivalent to public ignorance about the capabilities. Both fuel sales and reliance on the State and its corporate cronies. You might even say this is a natural form of hedging their bets against different sways in public opinion. Left vs. Right. Same master.

This could be why urban areas tend to see larger concentrations of spraying. (Not to derail my own thinking, but a more urbane explanation — in line with your theory, Simon — would be that the ionosphere is disturbed by city electrical activity, hence the greater need for stabilizing mixtures.) In any case, this could be further incentive (or excuse, depending on how you look at it) for the high concentration in urban spraying. These are population experiments, complete with set timetables, flow charts and different mixtures for responses to both environmental and public paradigm landscapes.

The weather modification motives and the mass drugging motives therefore are indeed feasible inclusions with the phenomenon of chemtrails. It started as propaganda. It turned into something worse, something which we are coming to learn through experience that the culture of propaganda breeds: State government warfare against the public and against the public's interest in keeping that State within the limits of otherwise well-designed checks and balances.

I believe you and our semi-anonymous contributor may have somewhat solved the mystery of chemtrails' origins. But we have not yet solved the mystery of what, in fact, they have turned into. The good news would be that it's probably not space aliens or magic. The bad news would be that if chemtrails are not what people fear, they are presented as such on purpose: as reminders of who holds the scepter, and who prevents the budging of a single inch out from under the same old boot heel.
Last edited by hoi.polloi on January 3rd, 2015, 10:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: response to point in first post
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby lux on January 4th, 2015, 1:12 am

Thanks for starting this thread, Simon. I also strongly suspect that “HAARP” is probably involved with the satellite scam. And, I think that it possesses, like chemtrails, multiple purposes.

I put “HAARP” in quotes because that is the term we all identify with this ionospheric manipulation technology but I believe the term is also used by the media as a sort of red herring. In the minds of the public “HAARP” is associated with a specific installation located in Alaska which probably doesn't do much of anything anymore but there are evidently dozens of other similar installations scattered around the planet and probably many more that we don't know about and all of these others may well be involved in this.

I'd like the members to have a look at this guy's video. I'm certainly no meteorologist but I think I know when someone seems to know what they are talking about and I think this guy qualifies in that regard. This is one of his recent videos concerning “HAARP” weather control and the reason for that control. Note that the area he is talking about, the Sierra Nevada Mountain snow pack in California, is the source of irrigation for California's Imperial Valley, which is in turn a major source of agricultural products for much of the USA.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwRm-jxbKOM

So, am I a fool for taking this guy seriously? Or, does he seem credible to others here too?
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby fbenario on January 4th, 2015, 3:23 am

hoi.polloi wrote:[1] the mass spraying was found to cause detriments in public health
...
[2]The bad news would be that if chemtrails are not what people fear, they are presented as such on purpose: as reminders of who holds the scepter, and who prevents the budging of a single inch out from under the same old boot heel.

[1] Do we have trustworthy evidence supporting this proposition?

[2] Nice reference to one of my favorite quotes:

Orwell - 'If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.'
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby Makkonen on January 4th, 2015, 4:49 am

I have a feeling this topic will become absolutely monumental - it unifies so many of the perp operations and machinations under such an elegant theory.

I first became aware of chemtrails about 5 years ago. Sometimes the amount in the sky in my hometown was absolutely obscene (very noticeable during high-pressure weather days), but the frequency of the chemtrailing in my hometown seems to have lessened somewhat in the last couple of years.

Before reading this, I assumed, speculatively, that the main function of the chemtrails was local weather manipulation - temporary "extreme" conditions to boost perceptions of "global warming/climate change", but visual technology probably does most of the work in this area of propaganda regardless.

It is interesting (in a morbid way) that TPTB get all sorts of societal "bonuses" from the chemtrails (in addition to their main functions of boosting communications' technology and diverting attention from the non-existence of satellites), because the materials used in the spraying are quite obviously not healthy for a human to inhale/ingest - meaning, exposure to heavy chemtrailing of course increases reliance on pharma for subsequent amelioration of condition. I no longer wonder why I, after exposure to heavy chemtrailing, was extremely lethargic the next day, as if struck down by illness. And there is of course the possibility that the chemtrailing might, in some capacity, tie into the propagation of the whole "climate change" business.

What a fucking shameless operation all of this is! Image It is truly astounding to realize.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby hoi.polloi on January 4th, 2015, 3:33 pm

fbenario wrote:
hoi.polloi wrote:[1] the mass spraying was found to cause detriments in public health
...
[2]The bad news would be that if chemtrails are not what people fear, they are presented as such on purpose: as reminders of who holds the scepter, and who prevents the budging of a single inch out from under the same old boot heel.

[1] Do we have trustworthy evidence supporting this proposition?

[2] Nice reference to one of my favorite quotes:

Orwell - 'If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.'


No, quite honestly I do not have such evidence. What I have written above is only a scenario, and a speculation. Even if I did have evidence, what form would it take? Would I find it in a newspaper? A TIME article? A news report of any kind? An "alternative" magazine? Maybe, at best, a tabloid designed to mock the notion. I would find it unlikely to be cited in a scientific publication due to the controversy of doing so. I believe the research, if ever it could be funded and designed by properly neutral scientists — the first challenge by far in such an activity — may get into a journal. But then several competing results could be whipped up and published against it by decidedly non-neutral parties. In short, the cards are stacked against easily quotable scientific insights and studies into the system and methods of propaganda. It seems, based on information gleaned from this research into propaganda, that Public Relations is one business that is explicitly skilled in defending its existence. Its weakness is its self-evidently fraudulent nature. Its strength is its consistency in fictional information, the willingness people have to become a temporary fan of any given consistent data set, and its rabid fans as eager as any nerd obsessed with a pop culture franchise to "explain" the numerous plot holes that emerge. I hope I am wrong and one of you knows of some oft-cited publications about this I have overlooked.

In short, the number (and quality) of people in my life who have noticed adverse health effects (after chemtrail spraying) comprise a big enough "hint" for me to take notice that something is fundamentally wrong with it. I have also personally noted my own lethargy and exhaustion and even the occasional dip in immune response, only to recall the heavy spraying that occurred earlier in the day. Someone can tell me it's the result of reduced sunshine quality, more numerous diseases in the public, seasonal depression, pollution, urban stress, radon, or something else they may have insight on. But none of these has yet broken for me a correlation between chemtrail spraying and public health. On the other hand, you could say nobody has convincingly set up a correlation for me either.

I am thankful this thread exists now, so that I can more fruitfully keep an eye out for either, in favor of the truth, whatever it may be. Ultimately, what would a study show? I have not heard stories of anything worse than moderately serious flu-like symptoms, but that doesn't make it "good for us". This becomes that unholy debate which has divided people against each other since time immemorial, and that is the facts regarding what is good for us and what is bad for us, which is a monumental debate. For the interest of keeping this thread on track, I guess we should focus on evidence and admit our ignorance when we don't know what the evidence means.

For my part, I notice greater incidences of illness after chemtrail spraying. Maybe this is nothing worse than getting a "flu shot" (as filled with Monsanto soup as that may be) or perhaps it is even more innocuous, or even beneficial. My instincts tell me it's not a good thing to have in tandem allergies worsen, to feel sick and to have sudden symptoms of chronic exhaustion. I am also prepared to admit it is a mistake. I was just relieved to find others online who had noticed and suspected the same thing, despite previously thinking I was the only one thinking about this correlation.

---

Without knowing for sure, I still want to stress the importance of Simon's assertions. It rings true that chemtrails were initially designed as a way to diversify cloud seeding technology from strictly a weather modification tool to a military (and subsequently "public") communications booster. The ionosphere is an amazing clue for us, essentially right out in the open.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby anonjedi2 on January 5th, 2015, 6:51 am

Interesting subject and theory. The main problem I have with the theory is that the alleged satellite data that was supposed to lend credence to the CAGW scam has been showing quite the opposite for the last 17 years or so, since the warming halted in 1998. In other words, the data that they say comes from satellites actually disproves their silly theories about warming which is why they had to switch to "climate change" and eventually "carbon pollution" ... they know that they cannot outwit mother nature, so they are moving further away from "climate" and more towards "pollution" and the public really doesn't know the difference.

So, if they are "faking" satellite data to support their global warming agenda, then why are the data falsifying the theory? Time and time again we see major adjustments to the raw temperature readings and/or "satellite data" to move the graphs in their desired direction (one that shows a warming trend, for example).

Also, alleged data that comes from alleged satellites has destroyed all claims of sea level rise as well as melting ice. We know that Antarctica for example reached record level high ice extent this past year. Arctic ice also rebounded nicely and is back to healthy levels seen prior to the 2007 high wind season. This is a major problem for warmers and the "satellite data" is what is showing all of these reversals. Remember, Al Gore and some of these people said that all of the ice in the Arctic would be completely melted by now. NASA said that the Western Antarctic was the fastest warming place on the planet. It was the satellite data that disproved all of this nonsense.

It seems the "satellite data" has been more inconvenient for them than anything else. It's caused a lot of problems for the warmers.

Now, to be clear, I am not suggesting or coming out in support of the "satellites are real" argument. I just don't see how the data that is allegedly coming from satellites is helping them with their agenda. It's doing much more harm than good, so much that they are constantly adjusting the data to fit their narrative.

EDIT TO ADD: I've never understood the concept of "flu season," from a medical/scientific point of view. I've long suspected that the chemtrail phenomenon has something to do with viruses, bacteria and big pharma. This, to me, seems like a much more logical and simpler explanation than manipulating the ionosphere in order to simulate GPS and satellite technology. I'm definitely open to the idea though... but let's not give them too much credit right off the bat.

Is putting a satellite in orbit theoretically and/or practically more or less difficult than manipulating weather patterns and/or the ionosphere?

I'm not sure what the answer is, just putting it out there.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby simonshack on January 5th, 2015, 8:06 pm

anonjedi2 wrote:The main problem I have with the theory is that the alleged satellite data that was supposed to lend credence to the CAGW scam has been showing quite the opposite for the last 17 years or so, since the warming halted in 1998. In other words, the data that they say comes from satellites actually disproves their silly theories about warming which is why they had to switch to "climate change" and eventually "carbon pollution" ...


Yes Anonjedi - but see - this doesn't stop them from persisting with their ice-melting / rising sea levels claims...

Here's an excerpt from a pretty recent (June 2014) article from the ESA website:

"ESA’s CryoSat satellite has been monitoring changes in the ice sheets that blanket Greenland and Antarctica since its launch in 2010. Recently, a team of scientists from the UK’s Centre for Polar Observation and Modelling using CryoSat data found that the Antarctic ice sheet is now losing 159 billion tonnes of ice each year – twice as much as when it was last surveyed. This ice loss greatly contributes to rising sea levels – one of the many devastating effects of climate change."
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Obser ... from_space


So as you can see, ESA is not, in fact, admitting that their 'satellite' data disprove their Global Warming theories.

As for your question: "Is putting a satellite in orbit theoretically and/or practically more or less difficult than manipulating weather patterns and/or the ionosphere?" Well, my take - as you probably know - is that putting man-made satellites in orbit is 100% impossible.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby anonjedi2 on January 5th, 2015, 8:59 pm

simonshack wrote:Yes Anonjedi - but see - this doesn't stop them from persisting with their ice-melting / rising sea levels claims...

Here's an excerpt from a pretty recent (June 2014) article from the ESA website:

"ESA’s CryoSat satellite has been monitoring changes in the ice sheets that blanket Greenland and Antarctica since its launch in 2010. Recently, a team of scientists from the UK’s Centre for Polar Observation and Modelling using CryoSat data found that the Antarctic ice sheet is now losing 159 billion tonnes of ice each year – twice as much as when it was last surveyed. This ice loss greatly contributes to rising sea levels – one of the many devastating effects of climate change."
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Obser ... from_space



Yes, Simon. This is true. However, the actual satellite data tells a different story. In other words, they have to creatively fudge the numbers with selective data points, cherry-picking, creative use of the English language, and tossing out the satellite data that doesn't support the narrative. So, what puzzles me is ... why wouldn't they just fake the data in the direction that supports the narrative? It seems the satellite data is indeed what many independent researchers are using to prove that these things are not actually happening.

For example, Arctic ice volume measured this past autumn show that the ice is approximately 50% higher compared to the same time period last year. CryoSat shows that the volume has increased significantly since October of 2013, when it measured about 9000 cubic km of ice. Additionally, this was an increase of 3000 cubic km compared to October of 2012 when the volume measured was 6000 cubic km.

Here's an animation of the growth in sea ice over the last 4 years (2014 not shown). The satellite data has proven to be extremely inconvenient for the warmers who insisted that Arctic ice was melting and would be gone by now.

Image

We are told that CryoSat was designed to measure sea-ice thickness and has allowed scientists to monitor the overall change in ice volume accurately, for the first time. While it is true that the trend has shown warming over the last few decades, it has shown a healthy rebound in the last 7 years or so. Approximately 90% of the increase in ice is due to the growth of multi-year ice (2,3,4,5+ years). Multi-year ice is the thicker ice, defined as any ice that survives more than one summer without melting. When you have thick, multi-year ice growth, this indicates healthy conditions. This year's Arctic multi-year ice is approximately 20% thicker than last year's.

The warmists want us to believe that the Arctic is unhealthy but the CryoSat data proves this claim to be wrong. So, how can their fake satellite data be the one thing that is disproving their claims? This is what I am having trouble understanding. You would think they would just fake the data to support their agenda, no?

Once the CryoSat (and other satellite data) exposed their claims as ridiculous, they began to scramble to come up with explanations.

“We didn’t expect the greater ice extent left at the end of this summer’s melt to be reflected in the volume. But it has been, and the reason is related to the amount of multiyear ice in the Arctic.”

While this increase in ice volume is welcome news, it does not indicate a reversal in the long-term trend.

“It’s estimated that there was around 20 000 cubic kilometres of Arctic sea ice each October in the early 1980s, and so today’s minimum still ranks among the lowest of the past 30 years,” said Professor Andrew Shepherd from University College London, a co-author of the study.


http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Obser ... record_low

This is a classic bait and switch technique of the global warming crowd. They always reference 1979 as their starting point (the year that they claim modern satellites were launched). 1979 also happens to be one of the coldest years of the last century, a very convenient starting point for data if you are trying to show a warming trend.

So, again ... I want to make it clear that I am certainly not coming out in favor of the idea that there are real satellites in orbit. I am moreso playing Devil's Advocate here (which I hope you are okay with) in asking the following simple question:

Why would they fake satellite data (which anyone can download for themselves) that doesn't support their claims of warming (Arctic or Antarctic), or sea level rise?

It was mainly the satellite data (among other variables) that was the catalyst in many scientists jumping off of the Global Warming bandwagon. In fact, the satellite data played a key role in my understanding of how they manipulated the numbers to fit their agenda. Once I figured out what the data really showed, it helped me understand the general nature of the scam. Of course, that was back in 2009, before I had any reason to question the existence of satellites! :)

It seems this data is nothing but a thorn in the side of the warmists. Why wouldn't they just fake the numbers to support their claims? Is it possible that the data are real measurements, but taken from something other than a satellite? This is what I'm leaning towards at the moment.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby hoi.polloi on January 5th, 2015, 9:52 pm

I am honestly not trying to "switch sides" here; I just think you may have misunderstood what I meant by weather modification if your denial of global warming is a response. I support your denial, even though I have no opinion on cooling or warming. I agree that the science is out on weather changes they claim are in fact happening; I have noticed both colder and warmer days where I am and have run into enough people around the world who'd contest science's blaring indictments. You raise good points about how they manipulate existing numbers.

My implication was that they may manipulate some big things. It is, after all, undeniable that cloud seeding using certain chemicals can induce freezing and manipulate present moisture. Although meteorology and climate sciences are complex to the extreme, I think it can be argued they have been fucking with stuff for long enough to gain some insights they may not be sharing with the public about what weather they can and cannot "do".

Perhaps they cannot make the Earth as a whole cooler or warmer. Perhaps they can. Are the "Ice Age" myths as real as they claim? Are we entering one or exiting one? Are they staving something off besides the truth? Maybe it's a partially successful technology rather than a fruitless exercise.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby Seneca on January 5th, 2015, 10:03 pm

If we have a theory we can try to make some predictions. Maybe someone can calculate what concentrations they are trying to get in the ionosphere. From that we can get an idea of how much stuff a plane has to carry.
And figure out how this is transported to the planes. I have not found any information on the logistics but I haven't really looked for it. Is it mixed with the fuel?
If they are really spraying something we should be able to find evidence of the transports. It would be helpful if we know if they need truckloads or not.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby simonshack on January 5th, 2015, 10:29 pm

*
Before we get on with this (potentially controversial / divisive) thread, I would like to express a wish and a disclaimer:


MY WISH : I hope that we can all try - as much as possible - to stay on topic here, so as to test out my proposed hypothesis that the mysteries (and countless conspiracy theories) surrounding CHEMTRAILS and HAARP are deliberately upheld / seeded / encouraged by the Nutwork (aka the "powers that be") in order to divert the public's attention from one of their biggest deceptions, namely: man-made satellites. This, because CHEMTRAILS and HAARP are essentially (imho) 'nothing but' devices responsible for our modern telecommunication capacities (civilian & military). What this thread is for - is to verify the merit & plausibility of such a theory - by assessing / evaluating the various technical, logical and historical aspects of the issue. We have an older (formerly locked) thread about CHEMTRAILS here - which I have just re-opened, where you can post any thoughts unrelated to the specific theme of the present thread.

MY DISCLAIMER: And no, my hypothesis / theory is not meant to downplay / or whitewash the whole issue (or, as my usual stalker-shills will probably say, "to get the elitist thugs off the hook")... Nor do I think that spraying barium and aluminum particles in the skies (as they seem to be doing) could possibly be beneficial to our health. On the other hand, I have a very hard time digesting / buying into the ultra-alarmist / genocidal / doomsday-type ("we're-all-gonna-die/but-the-PTB") depopulation scenario which several CHEMTRAIL conspiracy websites are gloomily predicting. Fear-mongering, anyone? For crying out loud - have we not learned that fear-mongering is top-of-the-list on the silly Nutwork's agenda? What with their blatantly fake atomic bombs - "capable of blowing up the entire planet" - and such utter tripe?

Here's one such website, "GLOBAL SKYWATCH". And here's the conspiracy-movie they're promoting as "the real story" (no, you don't need to watch it all - just skip around it here and there - and see what sort of 'mainstream-media-type' reporting and contrived interviews it contains - quite similar to the many infamous cointelpro 9/11 "truther" movies we are all - sadly - familiar with) :

"WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY SPRAYING?"
At 15:07, the producer of the movie - G. Edward Griffin - gets interviewed:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA

Now, who is G. Edward Griffin - you may ask? Well, he is a lifetime member of, wait for it... none other than the John Birch society (look it up for yourself) - and is the founder of FREEDOM FORCE INTERNATIONAL - whose "HALL OF HONOR" includes 'truth champions' such as Alex Jones, Aaron Russo, Richard Grove, Vince Eastwood, Devvy Kidd, Jack Blood, Doug Rokke, Don Nicoloff, etc... a truly impressive line-up of long-exposed, professional cointelpro clowns. In other words, the CHEMTRAIL "doomsday / horror" scenario is being promoted by the professional (CIA?) spooks of this world. If that isn't a flapping red flag for you, it certainly is flapping for me.
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby simonshack on January 5th, 2015, 11:50 pm

*


A LITTLE HISTORICAL BACKGROUND ... of "chemtrails"


Image

And now - here's to answer two key questions which my working hypothesis (that "CHEMTRAILS" are sprayed to generate an artificial 'ionosphere layer' to enable our modern-day telecommunications) naturally brings up:

1: "Is there any historical precedent for a man-made / artificial 'ionosphere' layer being attempted?

2: "How much material needs to be sprayed in a given spot in the sky - in order to enhance radio communications?"

Well, if we can believe the following story - from around 1958 - a mere 15pounds (6.8kg) of phosphorous was launched 60miles up in the skies of Alamogordo (New Mexico) and detonated. It provided 45minutes worth of clear / crisp radio signals to a series of ham radio operators in a radius of 700 miles... Please read on:


"OPERATION SMOKE PUFF"

Extracts from this ham radio buff's website : http://copaseticflow.blogspot.it/2014/0 ... rails.html (please do read full article!)
"Perhaps the chemtrail legend has propagated so well because the ham radio community at large was involved in the first experiment that might have blossomed into the chemtrail mythos. During a magical period, in the mid '50s the United States Air Force experimented with augmenting the performance of the ionosphere, (think HAARP), by creating airborne clouds of particulate reflectors, (think chemtrails).

In his landmark 1958 article describing the experiment, author Michael Gladych, (expect to see more about Gladych in these pages soon), first explained what the ionosphere was, first in words:

"In this electronic age, everybody knows that the ionosphere is an electrified upper atmosphere region that bounces off radio waves around the globe."
(...)
A launch pad for an Aerobee rocket was assembled in southern New Mexico, and a fifteen pound, (6,8 kilo), clump of phosphorous was launched to an altitude of 60 miles where it was detonated. Ham radio operators in a radius of 700 miles around the launch site were asked to transmit on frequencies between 7 and 144 MHz and submit reception reports on the quality of their communications. Sure enough, the artificial ionosphere worked like a champ providing "next-door clear" communications for 45 minutes.

Image


Here's an old newspaper article describing "OPERATION SMOKE PUFF": http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 136,371543

And here's the above-mentioned Michael Gladych article: http://books.google.it/books?id=iNsDAAA ... &q&f=false

********************************************************************************************************************************


Coincidentally, I suppose... <_< - only a few months later, President Eisenhower proudly announced :

"1st radio broadcast transmitted from space, December 19, 1958"
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/ed ... r-19--1958

Video description: "Having launched its first space satellite in January 1958, the United States launched a unique communications satellite on 18 December 1958 for the Christmas season." In other words... "Merry Xmas Americans! Santa is brought to you by our brand new communications satellite - our swift answer to the Russians' dreaded (october 1957) Sputnik! Yippeee!"

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibVj97TIjtk


Incidentally, Alamogordo / New Mexico is the site where the alleged Trinity" test(the first ever "Atom Bomb test") was reported to have taken place - back in July 16, 1945...
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Re: CHEMTRAILS and HAARP - mystery solved?

Postby hoi.polloi on January 6th, 2015, 12:29 am

Brilliant, Simon. Excellent digging, as usual.

Do you have an explanation as to why they would place absolutely vast amounts of this shit over large population centers? I have an idea. It's because of the concentration of device use!

Cell phones and smart phones and tablets and such are all sold to us as advanced devices capable of conversing with distant satellites. Television and communication hook ups are explained as "satellite" powered. But everyone knows it's the tower relays that actually increase the communication abilities of these devices and networks.

For short range intra-city communications, perhaps the occasional signal bounced at a very acute angle would help the relays reach one another without having to go through buildings. This would also explain the dishes pointing almost straight up.
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