What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.

What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby simonshack on February 27th, 2015, 9:52 pm

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What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Let me just open this thread with this exquisite little digital / cartoon animation :


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUS1m5MSt9k

So why am I even opening this debate? Am I an anarchist? Wooh - what a 'dirty word' that is too many, many people...

Yet, I must say that - if I were a smart alien who just landed on this planet, I would probably embrace "anarchism" as something quite intelligent and desirable - its widely different 'commonly-accepted' definitions notwithstanding :

"As an anti-dogmatic philosophy, anarchism draws on many currents of thought and strategy. Anarchism does not offer a fixed body of doctrine from a single particular world view, instead fluxing and flowing as a philosophy. There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive. Anarchist schools of thought can differ fundamentally, supporting anything from extreme individualism to complete collectivism".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism


And yes - the above, pretty balanced definition is from Wickedpedia !... (Long Live Wickedpedia!... :P )

So, am I now going to be labeled as an anarchist? Heck - I don't know if anyone can even pretend to be named as such. Every time the postman rings on my door - handing me yet another tax / bill to pay - I just comply, lest I run into trouble. Yes, I'm a slave of the system. Aren't you too?

And have you noticed that an-ever-higher proportion of our incomes are getting snatched by our governments? Hey, that alien may have a point!

***
Oh dear ... I guess Cluesforum will now be placed on a government watchlist for 'the terror-crime of promoting anarchy'... sigh ! :rolleyes:
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby simonshack on February 27th, 2015, 10:47 pm

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Another video which seems pertinent to this thread - love it or hate it... in any case, we'll have to admit that something's very wrong in this world of ours. We normal earthlings (i.e. - the honest, peaceful citizens of this world) can do better than that. Why are so many fellow earthlings blind to the hypocrisy and deceptions surrounding us all? Can it all be blamed to the fluoride in our water supplies? I don't think so. There must be some deeper problem here - something we still need to put our fingers on / single out / focus on :


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uVV2Dcqt0

In other words: WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE THIS WORLD A BETTER PLACE? :mellow:

Or are we just going to keep accepting our status of 'paying passengers' of this 'spaceship' called "EARTH" ?
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby Selene on February 28th, 2015, 12:02 am

Great to see, simon. And thanks, I didn't see these two yet.

And essentially it is almost impossible to not be an anarchist knowing all this media fakery is controlled, perpetrated and planned by governments.

The sociopathic sodomizers of our great and unique human capacities to be, think and live free, are enslaving us to pay them for their horrible games.

This video is one my favourites:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

As I stated in my introduction, and because wide-spread anarchism and non statism are (still) a utopian cause, I choose to live my life as much as possible according to the next philosophy which was hinted to me bearing this name. It describes exactly the way we people can cooperate actively fighting statism in our ordinary lives. The counter-economics part is a crucial element; actively supporting non-government controlled markets (called 'black' by those economic racists).*

Agorism is considered a branch of, or a transition strategy for achieving, anarcho-capitalism. [...] Agorists generally consider themselves to be market anarchists. Agorism opposes voting for political candidates and political reform.

Instead, agorism stresses the importance of alternative strategies rather than politics to achieve a free society.


Agorism can achieve a free society more easily and sooner by employing such alternative methods as education, direct action, alternative currencies, entrepreneurship, self sufficiency, and most importantly "counter-economics". The message can be considered to be scientific because science is an appeal to reason, which is only possible in a free market; in agorism, it is argued that state-backed science is illegitimate, because it inherently involves an appeal to false, un-merited authority


I have edited the copied Whiskypedia article text to better fit my own philosophy

And seeing the lies and fake propaganda of these fearmongering freaks being demolished here on Cluesforum does give hope for humanity. :wub:

Selene

Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds, I am not a sacrifice on their altars
Ayn Rand (1937)


*by making this joking remark in no way I intended saying there's anything racist about the word 'black' or any other Captain Sweden connotation to it, just trying to make a funny play of words... ;)
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby simonshack on February 28th, 2015, 2:06 am

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A pretty cool video - made by some pretty cool, intelligent Americans.

See, I am NOT "anti-American" at all ! I only wish to highlight the smartest ones. :)


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDsI-zk6gfE

Besides, my Viking ancestors were the ones who discovered the Americas - roughly 500 years before that Columbus guy... :P
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby ICfreely on February 28th, 2015, 2:59 am

Yes, dear Simon, I too am a slave to the system in the general sense. But I’m mentally free. My thoughts are mine & mine alone. I speak my mind regardless of how ‘crazy’ or ‘out there’ I may be perceived. I have no heroes. I don’t waste time trying to figure out who to believe. The only thing I believe in is conscientiously curious critical thinking. My ‘religion’ is the Golden Rule & nothing else. I couldn’t find a suitable word which defines me so I decided to create my own; ENDOCRAT!

Endo - a combining form meaning “within,”
Crat - a combining form meaning “ruler,”
http://dictionary.reference.com/
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby pov603 on February 28th, 2015, 6:27 am

Just on a side note, with the video of the US National Anthem I never realized it was 'punctuated' with so many question marks!
Seemingly continuously asking the question '...is our flag still there flying over the land of the brave and the free?' [paraphrasing] to which we all here know the answer is 'NO!' when they [the US public] have been brainwashed into thinking the answer is 'YES!'.
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby hoi.polloi on February 28th, 2015, 8:03 am

I've always been a little gratified by this answer to the question of anarchy.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsyIXqdMZTc
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby Maat on February 28th, 2015, 11:36 am

Love the Socratic “alien” video, Simon! Brilliant :D

Yes, Statism is a religion, absolutely — and I'm a happy heretic who would only ever “vote” for a stateless society; which I have no doubt would work perfectly ^_^

It [the State] has taken on a vast mass of new duties and responsibilities; it has spread out its powers until they penetrate to every act of the citizen, however secret; it has begun to throw around its operations the high dignity and impeccability of a State religion; its agents become a separate and superior caste, with authority to bind and loose, and their thumbs in every pot. But it still remains, as it was in the beginning, the common enemy of all well-disposed, industrious and decent men.
— Henry L. Mencken, 1926.


The "Subliminal National Anthem" video is rather ironic though; not only perpetuating the old Media-promoted “subliminal advertising” myth based on James Vicary’s well-known and self-confessed hoax, but they actually ignore the obviously intended influence of that TV sign-off which is not hidden at all! :lol:

Playing the national anthem (Statist hymn) with iconic images to promote an emotional response of patriotic pride (State worship) by repetition was used on Australian TV too — the same way all advertising/indoctrination is done. But how they managed to 'read' such overtly negative phrases into those fade-in letters I can’t figure out <_< — which would’ve had the opposite effect if any such thing could even work (and never has).

Of course we are affected by what we actually see and hear, subject to our individual associations, preconceptions & tastes — otherwise commercial advertising, indoctrination etc. wouldn’t work at all — but not against our conscious will. (This article mentions the real research experiments that all required too many ‘ifs’ & ‘buts’: http://theeconomyofmeaning.com/2012/09/ ... s-it-work/)

However, the closest to “subliminal” effects that can be reproduced in psychological experiments is Priming (and what was apparently used in the News puppets’ scripts on 9/11)

Priming is an implicit memory effect in which exposure to one stimulus influences a response to another stimulus. …

Priming can occur following perceptual, semantic, or conceptual stimulus repetition. For example, if a person reads a list of words including the word table, and is later asked to complete a word starting with tab, the probability that he or she will answer table is greater than if they are not primed. Another example is if people see an incomplete sketch they are unable to identify and they are shown more of the sketch until they recognize the picture, later they will identify the sketch at an earlier stage than was possible for them the first time.

The effects of priming can be very salient and long lasting, even more so than simple recognition memory. Unconscious priming effects can affect word choice on a word-stem completion test long after the words have been consciously forgotten.

Priming works best when the two stimuli are in the same modality. For example visual priming works best with visual cues and verbal priming works best with verbal cues. But priming also occurs between modalities, or between semantically related words such as "doctor" and "nurse".

This amusing video is a pretty good example of priming, but you’ll also notice that the stimuli are clearly seen, recognizable & last much longer than a movie frame:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyQjr1YL0zg

On the subject of Statism (theft & exploitation), not to be confused with government (spontaneous problem-solving sans coercion), I recently found a pdf of the classic book I’d heard recommended, “Our Enemy, The State!” by Albert J Nock (1935): http://famguardian.org/Publications/Our ... JKnock.pdf

Although I’m not generally impressed by Stefan Molyneux (his anti-statism ideas are the best), I did like his introduction to this book (nice compilation of real building demolitions to watch too):

Our Enemy, The State! By Albert J Nock, Introduction written & read by Stefan Molyneux:


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBiFbSHN5zI

Good discussion of it here as well:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8BH-D48tUY
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby bostonterrierowner on February 28th, 2015, 10:02 pm

Jeffrey Tucker ( Lewrockwell.com, von Mises institute ) and "good discussion" ? I hope you were sarcastic Maat :)

I have never heard about the guy but just seeing his association with aforementioned corporate sponsored, oligarchic and economically illiterate "institutions" makes me wanna scream.

These bow-tie wearing fucktards called "libertarians" or "Austrians" or "freemarketers" and their idiotic though plausible to a layman's ear economic ideas won recognition and were brought to the US by corporate money ( the same $$$ that funded University of Chicago, put Hitler, Reagan in power , elevated Milton Freedman to fame and are wreaking havoc in the world today ) to fight ideological war against New Deal and its empowerment of the working class rescuing it from destitude, child labor, 16 hour working day, pariah's existence etc.

What they are reallly fighting for is anarcho-capitalism and if they ever win we are back in 19th century. Please read "Germinal" or "Promised Land" because this what the clowns like Molyneux and Tucker are so eager to see again in this world. Their paradise where the government has no control and all decisions are made by the private sector and "free market" is Somalia. I suggest a trip over there to every Ayn Rand's or Adam Smith's worshiper. There is no such thing as "free market" . It's a myth just like Osama bin Laden and Jihadists.

I completely agree that the states are not perfect, politicians are corrupt, there is no justice but dismantling the central government will put the humankind right in the Mad Max reality where the most powerful/ruthless thug rules by pure force.

Didn't mean to sound rude but this subject really makes my blood pressure rise.
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby Farcevalue on February 28th, 2015, 10:44 pm

As suspicious as I am of the oligarchs that funded the various loathe some enterprises mentioned above, I have yet to find a credible argument for a state (which is a fantasy to begin with, as states do not exist in reality).

By the same token, I have yet to hear a credible argument against non-aggression.
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby brianv on February 28th, 2015, 11:25 pm

Farcevalue wrote:As suspicious as I am of the oligarchs that funded the various loathe some enterprises mentioned above, I have yet to find a credible argument for a state (which is a fantasy to begin with, as states do not exist in reality).

By the same token, I have yet to hear a credible argument against non-aggression.


This!
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby simonshack on February 28th, 2015, 11:48 pm

lol, Brian... I am currently recording a new album, and the provisional title of a new song (still very much in the works) is "The United States of Mind" ( these few words came up casually as I was humming along with the riffs of my guitarists). However, I'm currently stuck as to the rest of that song's lyrics... :(

edit: oh, I just goo-gled around a little, and that title seems to have been used by various bands already - oh well...
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby bostonterrierowner on March 1st, 2015, 1:14 am

Farcevalue wrote:I have yet to find a credible argument for a state (which is a fantasy to begin with, as states do not exist in reality).

.


As I wrote earlier I suggest you visit some stateless part of our planet, could be Somalia and you will have your argument found, if you survive this experience of course. What do you mean by reality ? States are the artificial organizations but they are REAL for all of us posting on CF because without the state there would be no posting on Internet just brutal struggle for survival.

Human nature is permanent conflict, table tilting,fight for domination of one over another and it manifests itself from the very beginning of our lives. Some of us are more aggresive, competitive, brutal, deceitful than the others and unfortunately without the formal structure with embedded threat of vilolence in it - state, gentler, weaker, more compassionate of us would end up totally fucked. Anarchism is a nice idea, but small self-governing communities as Silvio Gessel envisioned them are just an utopian fairy tale. They wouldn't have stood a chance of defending themselves against the bigger and/or more aggresive organizations.

Libertarians and anti-state anarchists are in reality darvinists. An individual can only thrive within a functioning state and I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can even think otherwise :)
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby anonjedi2 on March 1st, 2015, 2:20 am

I agree with some of what you have written here bto, however I think it's more human behavior than human nature. Our external circumstances over the course of our evolution has led to the evolution of our behavior. Nobody is evil/greedy/corrupt/warmongering when they're a newborn baby. Perhaps it's naive but I choose to believe that humans are born inherently good, and not evil. It helps me stay sane and have some hope in this crazy world we live in. The "nature" (as you call it) of humans is dependent on their external surroundings, societies, cultures, religions, etc. But none of us (other than perhaps babies) are really acting out our true natures, are we? As I see it, all of these things are simply human behavior, which corrupts human nature over time.
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Re: What is Government? What is Anarchy?

Postby Maat on March 1st, 2015, 3:13 am

bostonterrierowner wrote:Jeffrey Tucker ( Lewrockwell.com, von Mises institute ) and "good discussion" ? I hope you were sarcastic Maat :)

I have never heard about the guy but just seeing his association with aforementioned corporate sponsored, oligarchic and economically illiterate "institutions" makes me wanna scream.

These bow-tie wearing fucktards called "libertarians" or "Austrians" or "freemarketers" and their idiotic though plausible to a layman's ear economic ideas won recognition and were brought to the US by corporate money ( the same $$$ that funded University of Chicago, put Hitler, Reagan in power , elevated Milton Freedman to fame and are wreaking havoc in the world today ) to fight ideological war against New Deal and its empowerment of the working class rescuing it from destitude, child labor, 16 hour working day, pariah's existence etc.

What they are reallly fighting for is anarcho-capitalism and if they ever win we are back in 19th century. Please read "Germinal" or "Promised Land" because this what the clowns like Molyneux and Tucker are so eager to see again in this world. Their paradise where the government has no control and all decisions are made by the private sector and "free market" is Somalia. I suggest a trip over there to every Ayn Rand's or Adam Smith's worshiper. There is no such thing as "free market" . It's a myth just like Osama bin Laden and Jihadists.

I completely agree that the states are not perfect, politicians are corrupt, there is no justice but dismantling the central government will put the humankind right in the Mad Max reality where the most powerful/ruthless thug rules by pure force.

Didn't mean to sound rude but this subject really makes my blood pressure rise.

Since I’d never heard of Jeffrey Tucker before either & have rarely listened to Molyneux, I was only interested in what was actually said about that book (neither of them dropped any clangers that I noticed). I can only judge the content of what was said. Have you ever read Nock’s book?

“State” institutions (centralized governments) are parasitic monsters created by us with no power but what we give them to rule, steal, threaten and exploit — that is not the same as socially co-operative government (of which many have existed, some more effective & peaceful than others).

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand scare mongering predictions and presumptions of inevitable chaos, especially using ironic tropes like “Somalia” — the extremely complex results of long-term resistance to any imposed rule by force, foreign and domestic, that conflicted with their traditionally peaceful, polycentric Xeer governance.

Of course sudden break-downs of systems people have been raised in, programmed & conditioned to believe they must depend upon, will always result in some chaos until old habits, mind-sets, expectations and indoctrination are unlearned and/or replaced by new, uncorrupted generations — even when simply changing one type of State control for another (as we can see in formerly Soviet society).

As Anonjedi2 noted, most anti-social human behaviors are learned, not born. :)
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