The PR of Secret Societies

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.

The PR of Secret Societies

Postby hoi.polloi on October 13th, 2017, 8:10 pm

One "Friday the 13th" is allegedly the anniversary of the Pope's church murdering "44" Templars.

JFK gave a speech on how "secret societies" are repugnant to any free and open society.

Many Presidents have been part of secret societies and yet, at the same time, the influence of these societies is considered both downplayed and simultaneously acknowledged. There is a strange Public Relations effort that both minimizes and draws attention to (or plays with the attention on) such societies, which adds to their intrigue. How much of this intrigue is PR? How much is damage control? If there isn't any power to them at all, and they are nothing but distraction, why is discussion of them still vilified, even in serious discussion about power?

I think we would be remiss as a forum on the power plays that unify people (or those in the "Nutwork" gang, if you will) if we were not to discuss those loyalties, influences and alleged benefits of being a part of those societies, nor the attempts at public documentation of said groups.

I have been reading a bit about "Skull and Bones" and the Templars and some other "Orders" and it seems a fitting day to bring them up.

In relation to media fakery, it is clear to me that the media has its assigned roles in the various networks of power and secret orders are no exception. Without being seduced by stories and dramas about secret societies, can we deduce from these "official" and "unofficial" stories about them a sort of "character" from them that will help us better understand their role(s) today?

I leave this topic up as a jotting place for all our notes on such "Secret" orders, and what exactly may constitute secret and non-secret information about them. I have more to write on this soon, based on a couple books. But for now, I just wanted to make mention that my attention has been drawn to them (without being absorbed by the "conspiracy theory" intrigues).
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Re: The PR of Secret Societies

Postby NotRappaport on October 15th, 2017, 9:32 pm

I believe the function of these "secret societies" as it relates to the true power controlling the world is analogous to the Screen Actors Guild as it relates to the power that controls what movies are produced. The actors - politicians, TV reporters, crisis actors, many CEO's - are who we see "doing things", but they have no real control over the script they're following.

hoi.polloi » October 13th, 2017, 12:10 pm wrote:There is a strange Public Relations effort that both minimizes and draws attention to (or plays with the attention on) such societies, which adds to their intrigue. How much of this intrigue is PR? How much is damage control? If there isn't any power to them at all, and they are nothing but distraction, why is discussion of them still vilified, even in serious discussion about power?

While their power is completely illusory, discussion of them is vilified because they are the all-important PR labor force (or puppets) of the... well, let's just call it the "N.W.O.". ;) They say what needs to be said and they build what needs to be built, according to their bosses' directives.

Just my opinion.
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Re: The PR of Secret Societies

Postby SacredCowSlayer on October 15th, 2017, 10:12 pm

NotRappaport » October 15th, 2017, 3:32 pm wrote:I believe the function of these "secret societies" as it relates to the true power controlling the world is analogous to the Screen Actors Guild as it relates to the power that controls what movies are produced. The actors - politicians, TV reporters, crisis actors, many CEO's - are who we see "doing things", but they have no real control over the script they're following.

hoi.polloi » October 13th, 2017, 12:10 pm wrote:There is a strange Public Relations effort that both minimizes and draws attention to (or plays with the attention on) such societies, which adds to their intrigue. How much of this intrigue is PR? How much is damage control? If there isn't any power to them at all, and they are nothing but distraction, why is discussion of them still vilified, even in serious discussion about power?

While their power is completely illusory, discussion of them is vilified because they are the all-important PR labor force (or puppets) of the... well, let's just call it the "N.W.O.". ;) They say what needs to be said and they build what needs to be built, according to their bosses' directives.

Just my opinion.


This is an interesting and important topic. I tend to exercise caution about this because it (“secret societies”) appears (to me at least) that the language used by the “media” and its faithful gatekeepers is designed to serve a number of purposes. Off the top of my head- in no particular order, they:

1. run cover for the people actually calling the shots, so as to obscure their identities;
2. get to keep a good read on just how curious people in general are, and therefore know what (if anything) needs to be adjusted to keep them in line (such as DBA campaigns, shaming techniques, etc.);
3. learn not just what kind of people may be a “problem”, but also who exactly may present a problem.
4. serve to identify (or draw out) family members and/or friends of present. . . umm. . . I’ll just call them oligarchs, that might “need” to be “handled” in some way.
5. pretend to be watching those in power, that way we don’t have to worry about it.

Interesting discussion. I’ll be back for more. :)
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Re: The PR of Secret Societies

Postby ghostofpedro on October 19th, 2017, 4:55 pm

A reddit user claims to have found his grandpa's 32 degree masonic passport in a drawer. He uploaded scans of each page.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/778czo/32_degree_masonic_passport_scottish_rite_i_found/

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Re: The PR of Secret Societies

Postby hoi.polloi on October 19th, 2017, 5:14 pm

"Idleness is disgraceful" ? Gee, not much has changed since Puritan times, eh? The challenge to support the American military. Interesting stuff. Is Masonry little more than "feel good" fluff around a "license to kill" issued by the U.S. and/or U.K. military? I wonder what a U.K. 33rd degree mason believes. To me this is proof that the "degree system" is little more than a way to rebrand behaviorism as many ways as necessary to convince people they are "special" for being in the club again.

But is it proof this is an actual masonic document that masons use? And if so, which ones? 34 degree masons? :lol:

Is there a way you can make sure this text isn't lost and the images don't vanish on us?
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Re: The PR of Secret Societies

Postby ghostofpedro on October 19th, 2017, 5:27 pm

I have saved each image to my hard drive. I also screen captured the original Reddit post and the linked imgur post.
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Re: The PR of Secret Societies

Postby kickstones on October 20th, 2017, 12:21 pm

hoi.polloi » October 13th, 2017, 8:10 pm wrote:
Many Presidents have been part of secret societies and yet, at the same time, the influence of these societies is considered both downplayed and simultaneously acknowledged. There is a strange Public Relations effort that both minimizes and draws attention to (or plays with the attention on) such societies, which adds to their intrigue. How much of this intrigue is PR? How much is damage control? If there isn't any power to them at all, and they are nothing but distraction, why is discussion of them still vilified, even in serious discussion about power?


If this article linked below, bearing in mind Skull and Bones is an undergraduate senior secret society at Yale University, is legit then I'd say in the case of Skull and Bones that discussion of them is limited because of damage control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

Yale Daily News no. 96 February 29 1972

Yale Group Spurs Mao's Emergence

http://digital.library.yale.edu/cdm/com ... 148/rec/14

The link was taken from a source cited on Wikipage dedicated to the Yale-China Association.

The Yale-China Association (Chinese: 雅禮協會; pinyin: Yǎlǐ Xiéhuì), formerly Yale-in-China, is an independent, nonprofit organization which seeks to develop educational programs in and about China and further understanding between Chinese and American people. Founded in 1901 and originally a Protestant missionary society, Yale-China's work is characterized by long-term relationships to build Chinese institutional capacity.

Early years

Between 1919 and 1920, future Chairman Mao Zedong had several encounters with the school: he edited its student magazine, re-focusing it on "thought reorientation," and operated a bookshop out of its medical college.


I was drawn to the Wiki page as a result of searching for sources to confirm connections to Mao and Yale in the article linked below, while I not suggesting it's a legit site or the sources linked are sound, however that Yale's own newspaper confirms Mao having connections to Yale suggests there maybe are some elements of truth in the articles posted and as such warrants attention because it does give an indication as to a reality that is not portrayed in the MSM and the power and influence of Skull and Bones in our society.

Mao was a Yale Man - A Yali with Skull and Bones
http://www.mygen.com/users/ufo/Mao_was_a_Yale_Man.html

"Skull and Bones is a secret fraternity at Yale University which restricts their membership to only fifteen per year. . The society was formed in 1832 by General William Russell, whose shipping firm later dominated the U.S. side of the China opium trade. Yale University was founded by Eli Yale, who made his fortune working for the opium smuggling British East India Company."

"Skull and Bones became the recruiting grounds and preserve of the most important New England-centered families--families who also made their money in the opium trade. These families, whose sons regularly join Skull and Bones, include the little known, but powerful, Coffins, Sloanes, Tafts, Bundys, Paynes, Whitneys. They are a dominant element of the U.S. 'Eastern Establishment' to this day. The Bush family is one of a cluster of lower-level Establishment families controlled by these interests."

"George Bush, the first U.S. diplomatic representative to the People's Republic of China back in 1973, was a member of Skull and Bones. So was his father, brother, son, uncle, nephew, and several cousins. Winston Lord, the Reagan-Bush administration Ambassador to China was a member; so was his father and several other relatives. James Lilley, the current Ambassador to China, is a member of Skull and Bones, as was his brother. With the exception during the Carter administration, every U.S. Ambassador to Beijing, since Kissinger's deal with Mao Zedong, was a member of the Skulls and Bones."
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Re: The PR of Secret Societies

Postby kickstones on November 27th, 2017, 2:04 pm

Following on from the previous post I've made a few more notes below, and if they have any validity, it gives us further reason to believe that damage control is at hand in regards of drawing our attention away from the exploits of these secret societies, in this instance Skull and Bones, and in whose interests they are serving.

Because I would imagine a fair few folk in the USA would not take it too lightly if they realised that Skull and Bones and associates were instrumental in establishing a regime in Russia, whose policies led to the genocide of a few million people namely Ukrainians.

Whilst the below sources maybe not 100% reliable, the information revealed does in my opinion give rise to a high probability of underhand dealings taking place, kept from mainstream media / historical exposure, and carried out by a few people in positions of power and of wealth who further their own goals of monetary gain by deceit and with little regard for loss of human life and sufferings that ensue and as such does call for attention and further research.

America's Secret Establishment
An Introduction to The Order of Skull and Bones (condensed edition) - by: Antony C. Sutton, 1986, source: Liberty House Press
http://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Art ... ones&C=4.0

The Yale Senior society system is unique to Yale University... There are three senior societies: Skull & Bones, Scroll & Key and Wolfs Head. Each year 15 male Yale juniors are tapped for admission...

Each annual class of new initiates forms a "club" consisting of 15 members. Initiates are called Knights in the first year and thereafter Patriarchs... Each club has a number (i.e. D 183 for 1984)... Further, one member is designated a "club chairman" or agent, with the function to act as liaison with the Secretary of the Russell Trust Association (RTA) in New York.

RTA is the business name for the New Haven, Connecticut based Skull and Bones society, incorporated in 1856.
It was incorporated by William Huntington Russell as its president, and Daniel Coit Gilman as its first treasurer. William Huntington Russell's ancestor Noadiah Russell was one of the founders of Yale College.

http://drs.library.yale.edu/HLTransform ... -cache=yes

The Russell family are said to have emigrated to the USA from Scotland after initially moving there from Germany and are of Jewish origin.
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloo ... ussell.htm

ROTHSCHILD AND OTHER RED THINGS
http://www.tribwatch.com/redshield.htm

The Russell (also meaning "red") clan of Scotland was originally a Jewish family from Germany, known then as the "Roesels," alternatively "Rosel" and "Rossel." One can hardly fail to see the "Rus" in "Russell" or the "Ros" in "Rosel," evoking the proto-Russians. But knowing that "el" means "God" in Hebrew, the name seems to mean either "the Ros of God" or "the Red of God."

After arriving in the USA the Russel family made their fortune dealing with China.

5 Elite Families Who Made Their Fortunes in the Opium Trade
https://www.alternet.org/drugs/5-elite- ... pium-trade

The Russell Family. Samuel Wadsworth Russell started as an orphaned apprentice to a maritime trade merchant, made his initial investment capital on trading commissions while working for other traders, and eventually founded Russell and Co., the most powerful American merchant house in China for most of the second half of the 19th Century. He landed in Canton in 1819 and quickly amassed a fortune in the opium trade. His mansion, now known as the Samuel Wadsworth Russell House, still stands in Middletown, Connecticut. Russell's cousin and fellow opium trader, William Huntington Russell, was a co-founder and funder of Yale University's secretive Skull and Bones Society.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloo ... ussell.htm

From Fleshing Out Skull & Bones: Investigations into America's Most Powerful ......
https://ia800208.us.archive.org/12/item ... 003%29.pdf

The most important thing that I would like folks to understand from this work is that the secrecy of these organizations is not good for our Republic. These secret societies are historically foreign-based and do not care about this country. Their ends justifies the means Zeitgeist leads to massive corruption and the "institutionalized sociological" excess of "elite deviancy."

The original founder of Skull and Bones, William Russell, studied in Germany from 1831-1832. While in Germany, it is beleived that Russell joined a secret society at the German University and was then given permission to start a section of that same secret society at Yale.

"Bones is a section of a corpse in a German University....General Russell, its founder, was in Germany before his Senior Year and formed a warm friendship with a leading member of a German society. He brought back with him to college, authority to found a section here."

When Russell returned to Yale in 1832, he formed a senior society with Alphonso Taft (S&B 1833).

William Russell went on to become a general and a state legislator in Connecticut. Alphonso Taft was appointed US Attorney General, Secretary of War (a post many "Bonesmen" have held), Ambassador to Austria, and Ambassador to Russia (another post held by many "Bonesmen")

Daniel Coit Gilman (1852), along with two other "Bonesmen," formed a troika which still influences American life today. Soon after their initiation in Skull and Bones, Daniel Gilman, Timothy Dwight (1849) and Andrew Dickinson White (1853) went to study philosophy in Europe at the University of Berlin.

Gilman was first president of the Carnegie Institution and involved in the founding of the Peabody, Slater and Russell Sage Foundations.

His friend, Andrew D. White, was the first president of Cornell University (which received all of New York's share of the Land Grant College Act), U.S. Minister to Russia, U.S. Ambassador to Berlin and first president of the American Historical Association.

More Skull and Bones connections are documented here...

"Skull & Bones" aided the establishment of Communism.
http://truedemocracy.net/td2_2/51skullandbones.html

Notably...

3) The chairman of the American-Russian Chamber of Commerce was Samuel R. Bertron (Skull & Bones) Samuel was also Vice President of Guaranty Trust at 140 Broadway.

5) Harold Stanley (Skull & Bones) was vice president and president of Guaranty Trust from 1915 to 1928, Percy Rockefeller (Skull & Bones) was a director of Guaranty Trust during this same time. As was W. Averell Harriman (Skull & Bones) son of E.H. Harriman (Skull & Bones).

Along with being a director of Guaranty Trust Percy Rockefeller was also a director of American International Corporation (AIC).

According to Congress Member Leslie R. Pastor AIC was 'one of the largest ‘corporations’ ever created by some of the most powerful vested interests in commercial banking in the history of the United States' the other being the Federal Reserve System.
https://peswiki.com/site:lrp:american-i ... orporation

A man party to inside knowledge of both corporations was Frank A. Vanderlip, in his book, From Farm Boy To Financier, Vanderlip informs us...
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/06/f ... deral.html

American International Corporation

"the way we conceived the American International Corporation. We had decided, that what was needed, was some kind of organization that would take a foreign business enterprise of great possibilities or even a good idea with management behind it and finance it into strength. Such an organization would be in a position to consider carefully some of the marvelous opportunities that a banker ordinarily would not have to boot out of his path for sheer lack of time."

The idea of such an investment vehicle, as the American International Corporation, sparked the immediate interest of Stone & Webster (railroad builders) and of the Rockefeller family, (who wanted to purchase five ($5) million dollars of AIC stock immediately back in 1915).

They have been particularly enthusiastic at Kuhn*, Loeb’s. They want to take up $2.5 million. There was really quite a little competition to see who should get on the board, but as I had happened to talk with Kahn and had invited him first, it was decided should go on. He is perhaps the most enthusiastic of any one. They want half a million for Sir Ernest Cassel to whom they have cabled the plan and they have back from him approval for it.

I felt very good over getting Sabin. The Guaranty Trust is altogether the most active competitor we have in the field and it is of great value to get them into the fold in this way.

https://peswiki.com/site:lrp:american-i ... orporation

Guaranty Trust was founded in 1864 in New York. Over the next 100 years the banking firm expanded rapidly by absorbing other banks and trust companies; in 1910 it merged Morton Trust Company, in 1912 the Standard Trust Company and in 1929, the National Bank of Commerce.

The J.P. Morgan Firm has effectively controlled Guaranty Trust since 1912 when Mrs. Edward Harriman (Mother of Roland and Averell Harriman) sold her block of 8,000 shares of the total outstanding 20,000 shares to J.P. Morgan. By 1954 Guaranty Trust had become the most important banking subsidiary of the J.P. Morgan Firm and since 1954 the merged firms have been known as Morgan Guaranty Company.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/soci ... ones04.htm

Another close associate of E.H Harriman was Jacob Schiff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Schiff

Schiff was born in 1847 in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, to Moses and Clara (née Niederhofheim) Schiff, members of a distinguished Ashkenazi Jewish rabbinical family that traced its lineage in Frankfurt back to 1370. His father, Moses Schiff, was a broker for the Rothschilds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Schiff

John Moody, author of many standard reference works on American finance, stated in McClure's Magazine, Aug., 1911, that Jacob Schiff was one of "The Seven Men":

"Seven men in Wall Street now control a great share of the fundamental industry and resources of the United States. Three of the seven men, J.P. Morgan, James J. Hill, and George F. Baker, head of the First National Bank of New York, belong to the so-called Morgan group; four of them, John D. and William Rockefeller, James Stillman, head of the National City Bank, and Jacob H. Schiff of the private banking firm of Kuhn, Loeb Co., to the so-called Standard Oil National City Bank group ... the central machine of capital extends its control over the U.S.... The process is not only economically logical; it is now practically automatic."

http://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Art ... rder&C=4.0

What was perhaps Schiff's most famous financial action was during the Russo-Japanese War, in 1904 and 1905. Schiff met Takahashi Korekiyo, deputy governor of the Bank of Japan, in Paris in April 1904. He subsequently extended loans to the Empire of Japan in the amount of $200 million (equivalent to $33.1 billion in 2016)

It was due to this funding that the Japanese were able to launch a stunning attack against the Russians at Port Arthur and the following year to virtually decimate the Russian fleet. In 1905 the Mikado awarded Jacob Schiff a medal, the Second Order of the Treasure of Japan, in recognition of his important role in that campaign.

http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/ea ... otsky.html

Why would Schiff aid the Japanese to defeat Russia?

To appraise Schiff's motives, it has to be remembered, that he was a Jew and that Russian Jews were persecuted under the Tsarist regime. Consequently the Jewish community in America was inclined to support any movement, which sought to topple or undermine the Russian government, a humiliating defeat by Japan could well initiate the downfall of the presiding government of Nicholas II.

In the February 3, 1949 issue of the New York Journal American Schiff's grandson, John, was quoted by columnist Cholly Knickerbocker as saying that his grandfather had given about $20 million for the triumph of Communism in Russia.

Also looking to topple the Russian government were the revolutionary group the Bolsheviks and one of the best known Russian revolutionaries at that time was Leon Trotsky.

In January of 1916 Trotsky was expelled from France and came to the United States. It has been claimed that his expenses were paid by Jacob Schiff. There is no documentation to substantiate that claim, but the circumstantial evidence does point to a wealthy donor in New York. He remained for several months, while writing for a Russian socialist paper, the Novy Mir (New World) and giving revolutionary speeches at mass meetings in New York City.

http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/ea ... otsky.html

And it is on public record that Trotsky received money whilst in USA before leaving for Petrograd, to organize the Bolshevik phase of the revolution........

In 1919 the U.S. Senate Overman Committee investigated Bolshevik propaganda and German money in the United States and incidentally touched on the source of Trotsky's $10,000. Examination of Colonel Hurban, Washington attaché to the Czech legation, by the Overman Committee yielded the following:

COL. HURBAN: Trotsky, perhaps, took money from Germany, but Trotsky will deny it. Lenin would not deny it. Miliukov proved that he got $10,000 from some Germans while he was in America. Miliukov had the proof, but he denied it. Trotsky did, although Miliukov had the proof.

SENATOR OVERMAN: It was charged that Trotsky got $10,000 here.

COL. HURBAN: I do not remember how much it was, but I know it was a question between him and Miliukov.

SENATOR OVERMAN: Miliukov proved it, did he?

COL. HURBAN: Yes, sir.

SENATOR OVERMAN: Do you know where he got it from?

COL. HURBAN: I remember it was $10,000; but it is no matter. I will speak about their propaganda. The German Government knew Russia better than anybody, and they knew that with the help of those people they could destroy the Russian army.
(At 5:45 o'clock p.m. the subcommittee adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, February 19, at 10:30 o'clock a.m.)

https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... tion-5.pdf

Also evidenced are Skull and Bonesmen facilitating monetary aid to Bolshevik after the revolution which took place with an armed insurrection in Petrograd on 25 October 1917.

From the book...

WALL STREET AND THE BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION By Antony C. Sutton

https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... tion-5.pdf

In 1918 the Soviets faced a bewildering array of internal and external problems. They occupied a mere fraction of Russia. To subdue the remainder, they needed foreign arms, imported food, outside financial support, diplomatic recognition, and — above all — foreign trade. To gain diplomatic recognition and foreign trade, the Soviets first needed representation abroad, and representation in turn required financing through gold or foreign currencies. As we have already seen, the first step was to establish the Soviet Bureau in New York under Ludwig Martens. At the same time, efforts were made to transfer funds to the United States and Europe for purchases of needed goods. Then influence was exerted in the U.S. to gain recognition or to obtain the export licenses needed to ship goods to Russia.

New York bankers and lawyers provided significant — in some cases, critical — assistance for each of these tasks. When Professor George V. Lomonossoff, the Russian technical expert in the Soviet Bureau, needed to transfer funds from the chief Soviet agent in Scandinavia, a prominant Wall Street attorney came to his assistance — using official State Department channels and the acting secretary of state as an intermediary. When gold had to be transferred to the United States, it was American International Corporation, Kuhn, Loeb & Co., and Guaranty Trust that requested the facilities and used their influence in Washington to smooth the way.

https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sut ... tion-5.pdf

And if we take notice of these few lines below it will be no surprise to learn that the movement was under the control and influence of USA parties namely J P Morgan and associates.

Chapter VIII
120 BROADWAY, NEW YORK CITY

With an almost unanimous lack of perception the academic world has described and analyzed international political relations in the context of an unrelenting conflict between capitalism and communism, and rigid adherence to this Marxian formula has distorted modern history. Tossed out from time to time are odd remarks to the effect that the polarity is indeed spurious, but these are quickly dispatched to limbo. For example, Carroll Quigley, professor of international relations at Georgetown University, made the following comment on the House of Morgan:

More than fifty years ago the Morgan firm decided to infiltrate the Left-wing political movements in the United States. This was relatively easy to do, since these groups were starved for funds and eager for a voice to reach the people. Wall Street supplied both. The purpose was not to destroy, dominate or take over...

Professor Quigley's comment, apparently based on confidential documentation, has all the ingredients of an historical bombshell if it can be supported. We suggest that the Morgan firm infiltrated not only the domestic left, as noted by Quigley, but also the foreign left — that is, the Bolshevik movement and the Third International. Even further, through friends in the U.S. State Department, Morgan and allied financial interests, particularly the Rockefeller family, have exerted a powerful influence on U.S.-Russian relations from World War I to the present.

Here is a link to documented evidence showing early Skull and Bones / US involvement in establishing the Bolshevik movement.

America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones: Antony C. Sutton
https://books.google.hu/books?id=pZkJDg ... es&f=false

I. THE ORDER PUSHES FOR ASSISTANCE TO THE SOVIET ARMY

Fortunately we have a copy of the memorandum written by a member of The Order, summarizing intentions for the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. The memorandum was written by Thomas D. Thacher (The Order'04), a partner in the Wall Street law firm of Simpson, Thacher & Bartlett. Thacher's address was 120 Broadway.

Today this law firm, now in Battery Plaza, has the largest billing on Wall Street and has former Secretary of State Cyrus Vance (Scroll & Key) as a partner. In 1917 Thacher was in Russia with William Boyce Thompson's Red Cross Mission. After consultations in New York, Thacher was then sent to London to confer with Lord Northcliffe about the Bolshevik Revolution and then to Paris for similar talks with the French Government.

The Thacher memorandum not only urges recognition of the barely surviving Soviet Government, which in early 1918 controlled only a very small portion of Russia, but also military assistance for the Soviet Army and intervention to keep the Japanese out of Siberia until the Bolsheviks could take over.

Here are the main sections from the Thacher memorandum:

"First of all ... the Allies should discourage Japanese intervention in Siberia.

In the second place, the fullest assistance should be given to the Soviet Government in its efforts to organize a volunteer revolutionary army.

Thirdly, the Allied Governments should give their moral support to the Russian people in their efforts to work out their own political systems free from the domination of any foreign power ...

Fourthly, until the time when open conflict shall result between the German Government and the Soviet Government of Russia there will be opportunity for peaceful commercial penetration by German agencies in Russia. So long as there is no open break, it will probably be impossible to entirely prevent such commerce.

The reader should note in particular paragraph two:

"In the second place, the fullest assistance should be given to the Soviet Government in its efforts to organize a volunteer revolutionary army."

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/soci ... nes11f.htm

Were the Americans the only country giving assistance?

G. Edward Griffin points out that Trotsky's book My Life tells of a British financier, who in 1907 gave him a "large loan" to be repaid after the overthrow of the Tsar. Arsene de Goulevitch, who saw the Bolshevik Revolution firsthand, has identified both the name of the financier and the amount of the loan.. "In private interviews", he said...

"I have been told that over 21 million rubles were spent by Lord [Alfred] Milner in financing the Russian Revolution... The financier just mentioned was by no means alone among the British to support the Russian revolution with large financial donations."

Another name specifically mentioned by de Goulevitch was that of Sir George Buchanan, the British Ambassador to Russia at the time.

http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/ea ... otsky.html

Why would the British fund the revolution? Russia was their ally against Germany in WWI.

The answers may lie in the knowledge that Germany wanted Lenin to take over and head the revolution in Russia following the abdication of Nicolas II, which meant the overthrow of Tsarist rule in Russia.

How do we know this?

In the book The Sealed Train Michael Pearson informs us that Lenin, who was living in exile in Switzerland was transported from Germany through several countries because he was an anti-war, and they hoped that he would halt the war thus freeing many German troops to fight and defeat the British.

It is one of the great ironies of history that without the help of the German Emperor—the archproponent of the imperialist capitalist system that Lenin was dedicated to destroy—Lenin could never have achieved what he did. His establishment of a socialist state, the first stage in what he hoped would be a world Communist system, was made possible only by German cooperation, a German train and the massive German finance that followed it

Michael Pearson : The Sealed Train
http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/pearso ... index.html

The British on the other hand obviously wanted the war with Russia v Germany to continue because they were not doing too well at the time, the last thing they would have wanted was many thousands more diverted German troops fighting them, maybe the line of thought was by financing the Revolution they would have some influence on policies.

Another possible route for further influence would be gained if the following events are verifiable, described in ......

Als der Nagel eingeschlagen wurde: Erzählungen aus dem Alltag
: Helmut Lauschke

https://books.google.hu/books?id=MD_QDA ... 22&f=false

Germany, although they were winning the war and not one foreign soldier had set foot on their soil, offered armistice to Britain with no requirement of reparations.

Whilst the British were considering Germany’s offer, Rothschild agent Louis Brandeis sent a Zionist delegation from America to Britain to promise to bring America into the war on the side of the British, provided the British agree to give the land of Palestine to the Rothschilds.

The Rothschilds wanted Palestine for the following reason: They had great business interests in the far east and desired their own state in that area along with their own military which they could use as an aggressor to any state that threatened those interests. The British subsequently agree to the deal for Palestine and the Zionists in London contact their counterparts in America and inform them of this fact.

Is it verifiable?

In part yes, if the below documentation (Balfour Declaration), is not a forgery.

Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

Balfour Declaration, (November 2, 1917), statement of British support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

The Americans who up until then were pro-German turned against the Germans, President Wilson re-engages on an election pledge and took the country to war.

However, the author of the linked website sees events slightly different....

A study of that War, with the end-goal of conquering Russia in mind, brings out the following conclusions: that the German Rothschilds fomented the war for a generation previous to 1914 through German media outlets; that the English Rothschilds, in support of the German Rothschilds, permitted only as many English soldiers onto the Belgium-French scene as were needed to check/stalemate the German advance into France but not to defeat it until the Germans had defeated Russia; that the English Rothschilds through their agents Woodrow Wilson and his ambassador, Edward House, kept the Americans out of the war until (April 1917) after the Bolsheviks had seized the Russian reigns of rule by a coup (Mar. 1917); that the Germans, even though they had defeated the Russian military by the autumn of 1917, and therefore should have, and could have, taken the country, instead decided on a peace treaty (Dec. 1917) with the Rothschild agents (i.e. the Bolsheviks) then in Russian power; and that German Rothschilds together with the British Rothschilds began putting an end to the war immediately after the peace treaty by setting German public opinion against war on the one hand, and on the other hand by suddenly turning the western Allies, until then a lame lot, into a powerhouse that easily repelled the Germans into a steady retreat until they gave up in defeat (late 1918).

Now the English were a lame lot for the first three years and more of the War; Britannica says that they could have halted the German advance quickly in the Belgium-French arena had they come out all at once with most of their forces, and yet they came in dribs and drabs. While the English appeared as though they couldn't afford men in Belgium or France, how is it that they had men to spare for the purpose of conquering both Jerusalem and Babylon, including Baghdad? It's clear in my mind that the Middle East was as much the Rothschild target as was Russia, for the two went hand in hand in their global-government scheme.

Behold, in November of 1917, as the Russian Rothschilds were on the verge of signing a peace treaty with the Germans, the British Foreign Secretary, a Fabian co-conspirator, and friend of the Rothschilds, Arthur Balfour, writes a letter to Lord Lionel Rothschild asking him to accept his Declaration wherein the Jews could be re-instated into their ancient homeland.

http://www.tribwatch.com/redshield.htm

Ok, we may not know the exact game plan but if the end game included establishment of a Jewish state how is significant British support going to gain influence in Russian policies?

The answer could be because the people in positions at the highest level in the Bolsheviks were mainly of Jewish origin.

On 4 April 1 91 9 the Jewish Chronicle:

"There is much in the fact of Bolshevism itself, in the fact that so many Jews are Bolshevists, in the fact that the ideals of Bolshevism at many points are consonant with the finest ideals of Judaism."

https://archive.org/stream/BehindCommun ... s_djvu.txt

Jews and Bolshevism

From Let My People Go, Empirical Publications, Northern Ireland c. 1976. Authorship unknown.
http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html

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Communism was of course founded by Karl Marx whose grandfather was a rabbi by the name of Mordeccai. Marx was given his initial encouragement by a Communist-Zionist by the name of Moses Hess. As founder and editor of the Rheinische Zeitung, the main organ of leftist thought in Germany, he provided Karl Marx with his first important platform. Later, in Brussels, he collaborated with Marx on The German Ideology. It was Hess too who converted to Communism Friedrich Engels, the wealthy textiles magnate who later subsidised Marx from the profits of sweated labour in Britain and Germany.

In the War Records Division of the United States National Archives there is filed a report from an American Intelligence operative in St. Petersburg. Under Record Group 20; Records of the American Expeditionary Forces Capt. Montgomery Schuyler, G2 Intelligence wrote, “The Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning, guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest type.”

In January, 1924, Lenin died from causes variously described as ‘a heart attack,’ brain hemorrhage’ and ‘syphilis.’ His comrades immediately began fighting amongst themselves to see who was to become his successor.

A relative outsider, Joseph Stalin, came to the fore and purged all competition either by exiling or executing them. Since Stalin was not Jewish, yet nearly all his opponents were, it is often suggested that Stalin was anti-Semitic. This is far from the truth.

Stalin had three wives, all of them Jewesses. The first was Ekaterina Svanidze who bore him one son, Jacob. His second wife was Kadya Allevijah. She bore him a son Vassili and a daughter Svetlana. His second wife died in mysterious circumstances, either by committing suicide or murdered by Stalin. His third wife was Rosa Kaganovich, the sister of Lazar Kaganovich, the head of Soviet industry. Stalin’s daughter (who in 1967 fled to the USA) then married Lazar’s son Mihail i.e. her step-mother’s nephew. Svetlana Stalin had a total of four husbands, three of them Jewish.

Another source to give an insight is Mark Weber's.....

The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia's Early Soviet Regime

Assessing the Grim Legacy of Soviet Communism

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

A Taboo Subject

Although officially Jews have never made up more than five percent of the country's total population, they played a highly disproportionate and probably decisive role in the infant Bolshevik regime, effectively dominating the Soviet government during its early years. Soviet historians, along with most of their colleagues in the West, for decades preferred to ignore this subject.

The facts, though, cannot be denied.

With the notable exception of Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanov), most of the leading Communists who took control of Russia in 1917-20 were Jews. Leon Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) headed the Red Army and, for a time, was chief of Soviet foreign affairs. Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) was both the Bolshevik party's executive secretary and -- as chairman of the Central Executive Committee -- head of the Soviet government. Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) headed the Communist International (Comintern), the central agency for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Other prominent Jews included press commissar Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky.

Lenin himself was of mostly Russian and Kalmuck ancestry, but he was also one-quarter Jewish. His maternal grandfather, Israel (Alexander) Blank, was a Ukrainian Jew who was later baptized into the Russian Orthodox Church.

Why is Jewish involvement in the communist movement mostly ignored?

Could it be because their policies led to The Holodomor?

Holodomor ("to kill by starvation") is the name of the famine that ravaged Soviet Ukraine in 1932–1933. Estimates for the total number of casualties within Soviet Ukraine range between 2.2 million and 10 million.

In essence three Hodomor famines occurred, in 1921-22, 1932-33 and 1946-47 only the 1932-33 one is most documented.

Wikipedia informs us...

The causes of the Holodomor are a subject of scholarly and political debate. Some historians theorize that the famine was an unintended consequence of the economic problems associated with radical economic changes implemented during the period of Soviet industrialization. Others claim that the Soviet policies that caused the famine were an engineered attack on Ukrainian nationalism, or more broadly, on all peasants, in order to prevent uprisings. Some suggest that the famine may fall under the legal definition of genocide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

From The Holodomor of 1932-1933: the scholarly verdict
https://www.unian.info/society/143515-t ... rdict.html

Newly-published OGPU documents indicate that in the second half of 1932 the situation in the Ukrainian countryside, which had been starving for two years in a row – was becoming particularly explosive. The economic crisis in the USSR was intensifying, one of whose indicators of which was the mass famine among the population. Stalin dispatched extraordinary grain-delivery commissions to Ukraine, the North Caucasus, and the Povolzhie (Trans-Volga region), which confiscated all the grain. To forestall protests by the starving peasantry, Stalin addressed a joint session of the Politburo of the Central Committee and the Presidium of the Central Control Commission (TsKK) of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolshevik) (VKP(B)) on Nov. 27, 1932, declaring that anti-Soviet elements were penetrating the collective farms in order to commit acts of wrecking and sabotage. “It would be unwise for the communists, proceeding from the fact that collective farms are a socialist form of economy, to fail to respond to the blow of these individual collective farmers and collective farms with a destructive blow,” he emphasized.

Again from Wikipedia...

Denial of the Holodomor is the assertion that the 1932–1933 Holodomor, a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine, did not occur or diminishing the scale and significance of the famine. This denial and suppression of information about the famine was made in official Soviet propaganda from the very beginning until the 1980s. It was supported by some Western journalists and intellectuals. It was echoed at the time of the famine by some prominent Western journalists, including Walter Duranty and Louis Fischer. The denial of the man-made famine was a highly successful and well orchestrated disinformation campaign by the Soviet government. According to Robert Conquest, it was the first major instance of Soviet authorities adopting the Big Lie propaganda technique to sway world opinion, to be followed by similar campaigns over the Moscow Trials and denial of the Gulag labor camp system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Image

The topic is further discussed on the forum here..... HOLODOMOR - the true "Jewish Holocaust"

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1845

And as stated in the OP....

"I'm sure every human being on this planet has heard of the "Holocaust" (which apparently killed 6 million people or so). So why has almost NO ONE in this world heard of the Holodomor? (which apparently killed 10+ million people or so). Wow. There must be a little problem here, don't you think?"

Yes, there certainly is a problem here.

And on that note, I'll end the post with a quote from William Striker, take stock, and conduct further research into other underhand dealings, if any, at the hand of Skull and Bones and controllers.

"Contrary to what so many good people – out of sheer terror of ‘Communism’ – think, Capitalism is not ‘free enterprise,’ an incentive for success, ‘a chance for all.’ Capitalism is trusts, speculation, parasitical usury. Capitalism is J. P. Morgan, Rothschild’s bank, ripping apart the nations like maddened swine. Capitalism is the Jewish frying pan in which culture is rendered down to the grease of money. Following it, as the night to day, is the thrice hotter Jewish fire of ‘Communism.’'

Image





*Note. For future reference Skull and Bonesman Senator John Kerry grandfather Frederick A. Kerry, was born Fritz Kohn.
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Re: The PR of Secret Societies

Postby hoi.polloi on November 28th, 2017, 8:11 pm

I don't wish to start an argument, and I appreciate your compilation, but all great swellings of victimhood are the fuel of some form of bigotry or nationalism of one kind or another, including victimhood by conspiracies. The Russian revolution is not ignored. Maybe mostly. Maybe by the mainstream. But not ignored. It's still used as fuel. Like many wars and upheavals. By many different sides.

In Russia, the discussion of the past can be ignored in general because of, I believe, trauma (and a fair amount of brainwashing, as we are exposed to in the West). However, how much Jews were persecuted and involved in the persecutions is a discussion that comes up when revolution and so on comes up. In fact, Jewish, German and English financiers are at the forefront of discussions I have heard within international Russian communities. Those who fear Jews the most side with the idea that the German secret societies and financiers were influenced most by Jews. Those who fear Anglos or Christians the most (probably also stemming from some anti-Pagan Christian trauma in their past or even recent past) say that Puritan influences in The Order that are largely male 'White Anglo Saxon Protestants' control America's and England's purse strings and built up Russia on purpose. There is also a great deal of Russian nationalist pride in the ostensible "realization" that the entire world seemed hell bent on using Germans to crush Russia, and failed. You can see how this would lead to feelings of victimhood and persecution that are very helpful in maintaining a nationalism. Denying some culture's swelling sense of victimhood (such as mooting rabid nationalist Jews of their precious "holocaust") is precisely what we openly do. As such, we appear (on the surface) to be aligned with counter-culture. I don't think we do this in an insensitive way. But an insensitive "broad strokes" approach does tend to make us look as stupid as those who would join a secret society thinking it's not about power.

I'd say one of the single least ignored subjects of Marxism and its evils is how its influence carried so much weight, and how the Jews, Germans and English (and Masons and Skull and Bones and on and on) exactly did what. For this (melo)"dramatic" reason alone, I tend to try to take a step back from it and see if there isn't a Public Relations battle in the assessment of conspiracy and secret societies itself. One that we aren't getting sucked into, particularly by the foremost writers on the subjects.

If you take a side, you are likely to be divided against the others also claiming to have their best developed theory. We see this with the Jews vs. Jesuits vs. whatever discussions. Could it be that there is an intellectual struggle for supremacy whose power nodes directly correspond to the existence of secret societies? Are they like the "neurons" in a mind battle? Could it be that this takes place constantly and that the "conspiracy" studies are part of the effort to come to terms with this difficult reality?

I have been reading Antony C. Sutton's book "America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones" and there, too, I see that it was hard for him to avoid taking an opinionated stance in passages that hint there are good people within the Council on Foreign Relations and Yale who would celebrate the exposure of these secret groups existing within public groups. Do such good people actually exist in those societies? Or is this damage control as well? How much are Jews and Black societies admitted into The Order Sutton talks about? How recently? If you believe Sutton's work in 1983 it would seem Hollywood is merely the newest Jewish power to be allowed into a predominantly White Anglo inter-marrying fraternity that isn't Jewish. But if you believe that, then you must explain the Rothschild Jewish family, the Dragons of the East and other groups that may be ancient and how they have or have not "plugged in" to the newest forms of power. Will we classify him as a Dragon trying to undermine the deeper more powerful influences of the East? I don't think it's fair, because if Sutton is genuinely trying to bring topics forth, he is working within his group to "expose" that group, and that group is the "American public" on some level.

And here we do reach the limit of our research.

This is why I am curious about this topic. I believe it could be that if we look at the subjects we have been looking at here: media fakery for the most part, we are quick to call ourselves brave and pat each other on the back for speaking out about what should seem obvious.

We have expressed so much doubt about there being "good people" in the media and I take due responsibility for bemoaning the lack of real whistle blowers in any given cultural gang.

Perhaps there are specific individual human beings we can focus on as being evil in influence. I think that might give us a better clue into how secret societies work. It's a simultaneous "ganging up" (of sometimes incompatible elements) and then "smashing apart". This is a distraction from the precise extraction of the power of individuals selected by a society for membership because of that individual's skills and tendencies.

I really think that to avoid this topic becoming strictly one person's or another's theories about a known culture that we simply hand plucked from a book, we should analyze what we find with the understanding that there is something that prevents good people in "evil organizations" from speaking out. There is something that has prevented people with different ideas of the "top most evil" from uniting. And when we are being honest with ourselves it is not something we can fully blame on the "top most evil" we personally decry (though we must certainly acknowledge humanity dividing against itself is a weakness fully exploited by each group wishing the division to fall in their favor). Instead, there is an intricate group of specific individuals with specific talents that are selected. This is what I presently believe about how something like 9/11 could be achieved without the culprits being successfully identified and barred from their ability to abuse their power.

"Just doing my job" is often the mantra of our species. We may not feel that way about ourselves, and we may pride ourselves on our freedom and our eschewing of these (what we feel) are disgusting secret societies. But that doesn't necessarily mean we haven't been influenced by their propaganda.

This is what I mean about a PR "battle" of sorts. When you begin the path of feeling threatened by this something you are basically pre-"initiated" into any given society that claims, on the surface, to be against that group in the interest of justice and peace.

For example, piracy is showing up in my readings of these societies a lot. We are led to believe that piracy is some form of pure anarchic barbarianism, rather than the social order it more resembles when you actually read about its variety of pseudo-official forms. I say pseudo-official because there isn't exactly an address one can always go to and find the lead pirate with their office hours on the door. However, this doesn't prevent the captain from claiming and having influence, nor constantly envying more influence.

Anyway, I will write more about the claims of things written. But so far it seems to me there is a difference between "damage control" and people genuinely on the right track in terms of continually trying to get more information out of the scum and into the public eye for the benefit of all.

There is also the problem that once we identify a single despicable individual who is highly suspicious, we find that they are seemingly "too powerful" to touch and we blame the secret society that shelters him. The real problem may be that this individual is in the wrong position in our society: a position of influence. That can be overturned with a keen and sharp awareness. Our senses our dulled by secret societies that fear and hate one another.
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