Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.
hoi.polloi
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Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

I wonder if we can talk about the possibility of the skyrocketing problem of finding cheap energy.

Pretend for a moment that the conversations about "free energy" don't exist. It seems like the way to get energy is increasingly dangerous for humans and the environment alike.

I read it takes a bag of coal of energy just to send 2 megabytes around the world - so our use of the Internet, though beneficial to free information for all, is using energy resources rapidly.

Will energy become more complex a resource soon? Are the 'peak oil' people right or wrong - and for what reasons? And should we begin planning a resilient Internet that isn't based on the traditional corporate pipelines?

e.g.; Can there be an Internet based on individual 'walkie talkie'-style community sharing of information? A sort of "city Intranet" for the public that honors privacy levels from the individual to community to city levels? Is it possible to beam Internet using some kind of renewable energy (what energies are actually renewable in the first place? Not solar panels, if we need oil to make them ...) with something other than plastic cables? What about radio - like the e-mails sent by HAM radio winlink?

This may seem like a complex topic but the main point is to protect the longterm interests of a "global community of local communities" - like this one - that came together and unraveled the 9/11 hoax and how, given the problems of energy today, will we be able to sustain our sounding board?

Or should we be a sustainable network? Should we just let "September Clues forum" die when someone "pulls the plug" on any crucial part of this complex network?

This may seem like thinking too far ahead, but in our case that has proven to save us and our information in times past and I think it's time to take it to the next step. We might want to analyze if we have the resources to preserve the Internet and protect it from EMP weapons, from giant conglomerates owning the entire thing (Rothschilds perhaps?), and other dangers to the information we have pooled that has helped so many reconnect with their community and unplug from parasitic media.

Thanks and I will take my question off the air. B)
fbenario
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by fbenario »

hoi.polloi wrote:Should we just let "September Clues forum" die when someone "pulls the plug" on any crucial part of this complex network?
No, we each benefit from the evidence and analysis posted by others. I can't teach myself as much as the group teaches me.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by simonshack »

hoi.polloi wrote:Should we just let "September Clues forum" die when someone "pulls the plug" on any crucial part of this complex network?
Hmmm :( That'll save a lot of energy - for sure1 :D
nonhocapito
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by nonhocapito »

Just to add my two cents, I understand there are reasons to believe that peak oil is a myth, and in fact oil is NOT a by-product of rotten biological waste (and thus limited) but instead a by product of tectonic activity (and thus basically infinite).

The peak oil legend would be kept alive for the oil distributors and producers who profit from a limited source rather than a limitless one.

Of course I don't know which is the truth, not being an expert or a geologist.

But there is another thing to consider, which is that no matter how things go on the energy front, I highly doubt the possible "shutting-down" of the internet as a potential risk. Too much business flows around the internet. To shut it down would mean a global financial collapse of unbelievable proportions. So I think "they" rather just spread this fear, to keep people cowed and worried, scared to protest too much, scared to use it in too revolutionary ways, than really plan shutting down any part of the it any time soon. Just an idea.
regex
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by regex »

nonhocapito wrote: But there is another thing to consider, which is that no matter how things go on the energy front, I highly doubt the possible "shutting-down" of the internet as a potential risk. Too much business flows around the internet.
From a technical point of view, it is impossible to shut the internet down within at least a couple of months.
And I seriously doubt it that they would do that because they would just lose money.

I'm just scared of some kind of internet that isn't free anymore.
The european union makes some laws that seriously kill the free web, so I would rather concentrate on those things.

just my 2 cents

About energy:

Well I think that the problem in our society is, that a small group of rich people can hold patents forever.

If you invent some solution for our energy problem, those guys would come to you and offer you a huge amount of money. You either take it, or you somehow "disappear".
hoi.polloi
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Well our different brands of pessimism produce different brands of optimism, I suppose.

The answer from you guys so far seems to be: "It'll never happen!"

Good, I hope you're right.
BNSF9647
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by BNSF9647 »

nonhocapito wrote:Just to add my two cents, I understand there are reasons to believe that peak oil is a myth, and in fact oil is NOT a by-product of rotten biological waste (and thus limited) but instead a by product of tectonic activity (and thus basically infinite).

The peak oil legend would be kept alive for the oil distributors and producers who profit from a limited source rather than a limitless one.

Of course I don't know which is the truth, not being an expert or a geologist.
Nonhocapito you are not far from the truth at all. Its good to see someone else share this view on petroleum. Petroleum being a chain molecule of carbon and hydrogen along with other small contaminants, the two most abundant elements in the universe. Are products the planet produces in large concentrations below the crust. Which would give us a unlimited supply. So what better way to increase energy prices through the peak oil myth. Not to mention these so called "fossil fuels" do more to reinforce in my belief that, when calling petroleum a fossil fuel it gives traction to the so called evolution theory which I disagree with. I will look for an article written years ago about this same subject. I don't remember the authors name, but if I find it I will post it, good day.
hoi.polloi
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Well, the Matthew Simmons character who is alleged to be a "former Bush administration" energy department employee/advisor (?) keeps appearing in movies about Peak Oil. Now when he was officially announced to be "dead" after the Grand Ol' BP oil spill hoax, I started re-questioning the assertion that cheap energy was ending ... and started wondering if this wasn't a way for globalist elitists to quell the gluttony of resource use that was creating such an ugly, ugly America - and world.

It's bizarre, but sometimes I think I side with "the perps" on this one issue - reduction of the distribution of plastics and petroleum products - to slow down the rate of toxic build up in our ecosystem. So even if "peak oil" might not be real, I think the criminal cabal that runs the Earth's dismaying governments may actually be trying to preserve the Earth when they artificially take away plastic toys from us.

Sure, the Internet gave us some more information about how humans are fucking each other over, but if the alternative is a deceleration of a mass extinction caused by imbalance in the ecosystem - I wouldn't mind losing some of these special plastic communication toys in favor of some more time on Earth - and a better chance for humans to survive.

I don't mean to turn this entirely into an ecological debate; that might be an issue for another topic. However, it is arguably rather more important than who is starting the wars.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by Dcopymope »

hoi.polloi wrote:Well, the Matthew Simmons character who is alleged to be a "former Bush administration" energy department employee/advisor (?) keeps appearing in movies about Peak Oil. Now when he was officially announced to be "dead" after the Grand Ol' BP oil spill hoax, I started re-questioning the assertion that cheap energy was ending ... and started wondering if this wasn't a way for globalist elitists to quell the gluttony of resource use that was creating such an ugly, ugly America - and world.

It's bizarre, but sometimes I think I side with "the perps" on this one issue - reduction of the distribution of plastics and petroleum products - to slow down the rate of toxic build up in our ecosystem. So even if "peak oil" might not be real, I think the criminal cabal that runs the Earth's dismaying governments may actually be trying to preserve the Earth when they artificially take away plastic toys from us.

Sure, the Internet gave us some more information about how humans are fucking each other over, but if the alternative is a deceleration of a mass extinction caused by imbalance in the ecosystem - I wouldn't mind losing some of these special plastic communication toys in favor of some more time on Earth - and a better chance for humans to survive.

I don't mean to turn this entirely into an ecological debate; that might be an issue for another topic. However, it is arguably rather more important than who is starting the wars.
So this is more important than the wars that are decimating entire populations as we speak? Are plastic toys more important than genetic engineering, changing the very genetic makeup of virtually all life on the planet, your food included? This surely is a threat to life as we know it today, not just humans. A piece of plastic you buy out of a store pales in comparison to these real issues. More & more the very same con men that gave us this consumerist society are now demonizing it, blaming the average Joe for the very ills they created in the first place as an excuse to pass legally binding laws and treaties to reduce our standard of living and control every facet of our lives. They create the problem, with enough propaganda they get the desired reaction from the people, like your comment, and they offer their solution of more despotism, under the guise of "preserving the ecosystem", or "sustainability".
hoi.polloi
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Please. I don't think you even read my comment correctly, and I don't believe that I am the mere product of a "desired reaction". I can only wish more people "reacted" as I do to this matter sometimes.

I am not excusing genocide. I want to draw attention to the possibility of ecocide - the ultimate genocide.

What I'm talking about isn't consumerist choices or things we have control over as citizens. I am referring to the collective destruction of our ecosystem, including our holistic relationship with the Earth, made possible by the same criminal groups that apparently push the idea of "saving" Earth. Therefore, I think we are discussing a shared concern we both have -- and most people would have if they were paying attention and informed of some aspect of this situation (if it's true).
Are plastic toys more important than genetic engineering, changing the very genetic makeup of virtually all life on the planet, your food included?
Genetic engineering cannot exist without plastic toys. None of the horrible devastation being done to our planet would be as effective at ecocide without all the plastic (and metal) "toys" used to industrialize and accelerate the rape of Earth. These toys are treated as more important than life - so important, in fact, that it seems we are being encouraged to become toys - receive microchips, implants, alterations and grafts that would turn us into more playthings of the criminal cartel. That's just one little factor about my larger point, which is to say there are a number of things we are doing against the natural way - such as introducing foreign chemicals into our ecosystem, then - even worse - tying those foreign chemicals from below the ecosystem (our "ecosystem" I refer to is a very thin shell between 6 sextillion tons of potentially hazardous minerals and the abyss of dangerous outer space) with our bodies - as if to somehow "rebuild us" or make us immune from the rest of the ecosystem's collapse.

If that's the goal, I don't think it will work for most of us. And those that actually manage to become fetishized cyborgian nightmares will be left with ... what? A barren rock of extreme, unlivable weather? Will they have to adapt to live in a dead ocean?

My point is that the aspects of the criminal cabal that are trying to prevent this measure may have some good intentions. Or perhaps they don't do it with good intentions; they only do it to play Gods and wield their power to destroy for fun. Yet, when we are in an "up swing" of their crazy behavior, it doesn't feel "all bad" to me. Even if they ultimately still try to destroy everything for fun, I want to note that perhaps there is a genuine concern somewhere in their hearts for continuing existence and they are presently pushing for the ideas of "Peak Oil" in order to rob us of our ability to collectively destroy Earth through ignorant and greedy action.

I am sorry to say so, but if they cannot control themselves from being home-wrecking psychopaths at least they can make it seem fashionable to not become them.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by Dcopymope »

hoi.polloi wrote:Please. I don't think you even read my comment correctly, and I don't believe that I am the mere product of a "desired reaction". I can only wish more people "reacted" as I do to this matter sometimes.

I am not excusing genocide. I want to draw attention to the possibility of ecocide - the ultimate genocide.

What I'm talking about isn't consumerist choices or things we have control over as citizens. I am referring to the collective destruction of our ecosystem, including our holistic relationship with the Earth, made possible by the same criminal groups that apparently push the idea of "saving" Earth. Therefore, I think we are discussing a shared concern we both have -- and most people would have if they were paying attention and informed of some aspect of this situation (if it's true).
Are plastic toys more important than genetic engineering, changing the very genetic makeup of virtually all life on the planet, your food included?
Genetic engineering cannot exist without plastic toys. None of the horrible devastation being done to our planet would be as effective at ecocide without all the plastic (and metal) "toys" used to industrialize and accelerate the rape of Earth. These toys are treated as more important than life - so important, in fact, that it seems we are being encouraged to become toys - receive microchips, implants, alterations and grafts that would turn us into more playthings of the criminal cartel. That's just one little factor about my larger point, which is to say there are a number of things we are doing against the natural way - such as introducing foreign chemicals into our ecosystem, then - even worse - tying those foreign chemicals from below the ecosystem (our "ecosystem" I refer to is a very thin shell between 6 sextillion tons of potentially hazardous minerals and the abyss of dangerous outer space) with our bodies - as if to somehow "rebuild us" or make us immune from the rest of the ecosystem's collapse.

If that's the goal, I don't think it will work for most of us. And those that actually manage to become fetishized cyborgian nightmares will be left with ... what? A barren rock of extreme, unlivable weather? Will they have to adapt to live in a dead ocean?

My point is that the aspects of the criminal cabal that are trying to prevent this measure may have some good intentions. Or perhaps they don't do it with good intentions; they only do it to play Gods and wield their power to destroy for fun. Yet, when we are in an "up swing" of their crazy behavior, it doesn't feel "all bad" to me. Even if they ultimately still try to destroy everything for fun, I want to note that perhaps there is a genuine concern somewhere in their hearts for continuing existence and they are presently pushing for the ideas of "Peak Oil" in order to rob us of our ability to collectively destroy Earth through ignorant and greedy action.

I am sorry to say so, but if they cannot control themselves from being home-wrecking psychopaths at least they can make it seem fashionable to not become them.
Sure, there is a concern, but it’s not a genuine concern based on any real issue, but a concern based on their religion, which is eugenics. They aren’t doing this because they consciously believe they are evil, and henceforth seek to commit evil deeds. They believe that god left the world imperfect, so through science they will perfect that which was left imperfect, which means all life. Today, this religion goes under many different names like "transhumanism". They want to become as gods on earth, a god is a being that has control over life and death, which is what the "new world order" as they call it is really all about in the end. It’s really very simple Hoi, anything that has to be done and brought about by deception is suspect by its very basic premise. If their agenda was genuine and was for the betterment of the people and the environment there would be no need for all of this deception, period.
Last edited by Dcopymope on Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
hoi.polloi
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

If their agenda was genuine and was for the betterment of the people and the environment there would be no need for all of this deception, period.
I agree. Definitely. But I always wonder about greater complexity.

Perhaps if they are always in jerk-mode, they are in denial of the true limits of being human - which means that some of the consequences of their crazy actions are good or bad. It's like their delusion blinds them to their self-defeating tendencies and sometimes they maybe accidentally do something beneficial to others. I dunno.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by fbenario »

Dcopymope, I want to say that I agree with every word of your last two posts here. They represent my views on the subject exactly. I continue being very pleasantly surprised and grateful that I agree exactly with so many of your analyses on so many things.

And Hoi, I don't disagree with any of your comments on this thread, so I'm not trying to take 'sides' here. I just want to compliment Dcopy on how exactly I see things the same way he does. Please understand that I, probably like the rest of us, feel VERY alone with my thoughts in the world I deal with every day, and to find any other human who sees things so much like I do is such a relief.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by nonhocapito »

Once again I must disagree with you Dcopymope, especially if these 'eugenicists' you talk about are the same ones who allegedly want to 'exterminate humanity'.

This 'New World Order' of blood-thirsty eugenicists is not something I find believable. Not only because it is an Alex Jones favorite, and a favorite of the whole culture of terror that surround him.
It is simply unreasonable and far fetched to think that an elite that gains so much by controlling so many bodies and souls on this earth, their labor, their creativity, their talents, their desires, would want to 'exterminate' the most of them, after which they would be left to inhabit a world of free 'equals'. That's not the idea. The idea is to have as many 'slaves' as possible, and to have to subject themselves to the less laws possible while on this planet (ultimately just those of their group of reference). That's the thrill of being part of the 'elite', of being 'chosen' or whatever.
It has nothing to do with exterminating the people of this planet: we are instead the ultimate, most precious resource, of 'laborers', 'consumers', 'breeders', that simply must be controlled.

As to the idea to use 'transhumanism' to turn themselves into 'gods on earth': maybe that's just the impression they want to give. Everyday relation with machines and electronics and chemicals is bad for you. The ruling elites do not spend their time talking on a cell phone or its micro equivalent, or trying on themselves new cures. What if the whole purpose of transhumanism is to sell more gadgets to the masses tomorrow (nothing has a worse value/price ratio than electronic gadgets) and to sell the idea of electronic security and control? The technocrats are at the top, sure: but only for us. All the while, the elites live on/in islands were electronic waves are carefully filtered and everything is 'organic', not 'robotic'.
Maybe it is not as much about them becoming 'gods', as it is for us to become less valuable, more stupid people. And I know that they seem to have made a lot of progress in that direction: but I think that never like today humanity has been on the verge of real emancipation and understanding: which means they are also very much failing in controlling our minds, whereas 40 years ago they were winning all across the board.

As to them doing good deeds 'by accident', Hoi, personally I don't think that's really to be expected. Things are planned so that never too much good is being given away for free, as it would defy the whole purpose to have the masses struggling for the welfare of the elites.
Personally I would not characterize the elites as especially deranged minds either. The problem with these groups is that they are made by individuals who have submitted their will to the one of the group. And the will of the group, like the will of a corporation, knows no pity, no ethics, no refrain. It is an 'entity' a 'demon' that cannot be quelled in any way and only can go further with its simple purpose, to gain as much power (in the various manifestations) as possible. This is true of something like Monsanto or BP, like an international masonic lodge or a secret cabal, like the zionists or the british royalties. These groups are the real, tragic burden on humanity, especially in these last hundred years and, probably, for many years ahead. Also for the very effective grip they have on the minds of their members, that are never far away enough to think differently. Life is too short for these people to turn into 'new', 'changed' persons.

These groups can only be stopped by other groups, during the long wars they wage on each other to gain control on us. Individuals in them can change almost nothing: count nothing. They can only be absorbed, corrupted or eliminated by the group. Who could steer a corporation away from profit? Today?

In a sense, we live in a technocratic world ruled by fate and superstition. The 'destiny' of all the ruling entities cannot be changed (superstition), because too much is 'invested' in them (technocracy).

So in the context of this thread, I think the oil peak scam has to be seen, like other scams, as a way to gain more from the masses, and to keep the masses in check.
Maybe we all agree with this not too profound conclusion :)
hoi.polloi
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Fine thoughts all around, but it still doesn't answer whether Peak Oil is a real phenomenon that will happen (because of its artificial inducement or because oil truly is finite) or if it won't happen.

I was hoping for some speculation on the real science and research of it. We can say they are "using" Peak Oil or they created it in the first place, but those are radically different possibilities. If we know they want to control every significant phenomenon, it still doesn't answer whether oil is truly scarce or not.
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