To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

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To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby hoi.polloi on September 25th, 2015, 10:47 am

fbenario and SacredCowSlayer,

I once asked a lawyer about going after conspiracies and he opined that it was very very difficult because the octopus is liable to sacrifice a limb to escape, meaning you will only end up busting some small sacrificial part of the conspiracy while the main problem swims free. That has been on my mind as I've thought about why we have not been able to make our site palatable to people whose safe escapes (from their 'mob') we really want to help make a reality.

We are trying to re-format our F.A.Q. #5 page, in regards to people with information that may want to come forward. Can you please review the page and see if it all looks like a good way to strengthen people's back bones about telling their 9/11 story? In your experience, is this a good and compassionate way to talk to people? Can we inspire enough people to "rescue themselves" all at once, and not feel bound by the octopus? Is there a way to strike at the heart of such a thing and let everyone involved get free of the truly guilty parties? And also, what do you think we can/should do when we encounter people who we suspect of lying, of having to lie, or of being threatened/cajoled individuals?

F.A.Q. 5: What Can I Do?
DISCLAIMER: We believe any possible casualties of 9/11 should be investigated. To this end, we ask anyone in possession of any evidence of real people disappearing to come forward. Because of the excessively fraudulent reporting now standardized in every conventional media, the world requires true testimonies from anyone connected to the events of 9/11. If you have testimony that you wish to report to a legitimate organization instead of the corrupt media, please read this page on recommended actions.


What did you experience on 9/11?

Do you know someone who died on 9/11?

Did you see something real on 9/11?

After reading our articles, we presume that you have questions about your community’s relationship to 9/11. Particularly, you may find that you are certain about a personal story that you feel has been unjustly unheard. For those of you willing to back up your certainty with action, here is a brief questionnaire that you should give sober consideration to:

1. Did anyone, at any time, ask you to change your story about 9/11? Did they offer you something or threaten you?

2. Assuming all reporting by the media to be entirely false, does your story have independently verifiable evidence that you can personally represent in a court of law – and are you willing to subject your evidence to critical evaluation?

3. If so, do you see your testimony as accurately represented by Reuters, Associated Press, ABC, CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS, BBC, SKY, Time, Newsweek, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times or another organization otherwise complicit in showing counterfeit reporting on 9/11?

4. If so, what part of the official story is requisite for your personal testimony to be true, if any? Does your personal experience jibe with what your favored media sources have reported? Can you verify your story without the tampered evidence produced by the government?

5. If you don't see your point of view accurately represented by the media, and you feel in danger because of what you know, can you get your information out to the broadest public in any way?

After considering these questions, we suggest that you take the following peaceful and civil actions in getting your story disseminated, though please bear in mind this is not legal advice and you should always seek the most professional help you can find:

1. Find a safe way to contact elders in your community. Discuss your story with your community. Lose your fear of persecution, condemnation or victimization. There is an awakening and there is power in numbers. Always use your own perceptions and encourage others to do the same. Please use our web site as a tool to explain to people how it's possible for some perspectives to be drowned out by a cacophony of media.

2. Know your rights. Hire a lawyer if you can afford it, discuss your findings with them and investigate your legal options in pursuing witness protection programs, therapy, legal advice and reparations for the media’s psychological attack on your community and/or the world.

3. We are doing our best to get the word out about what really happened. If you write your testimony in clear language, with supporting documents and unambiguous reference to what you need, you can have someone contact us through our contact page and we can try to figure out a way to make your story public.


http://septemberclues.info/faq_5.shtml

I know it's complex, because on a scale of liars you can always place someone on the "more innocent" or "more guilty" side and it's not easy to delineate that. And people are abused and come from a cycle of abuse or mistreatment by the system or situation they were born into. But there must be a way to help. Can we?
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby fbenario on September 26th, 2015, 1:17 am

Hoi, I've always had a great deal of respect for your writing and your thought processes, and this post meets your usual standards. I think it's a good idea, and will likely be helpful to September Clues visitors uncertain how to proceed.

The only thing I would add to the FAQ is a reference directing them to cluesforum for help unpacking what they 'saw' and who they 'knew', and what it may mean.

You ask what we should do when we encounter folks who are lying, or scared. For liars, we should continue to do what we have been doing, ban them from the forum when they start damaging it, while also referring them to this FAQ. On numerous occasions you've pointed out the difficulties in determining who is trustworthy, so I'm not sure what more we can do to help those who are scared, other than to make clear this forum is a safe place for them to discuss what they know or saw.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby Seneca on September 28th, 2015, 1:53 pm

Hoi,
I am not a lawyer but I have some comments:

Is it for Americans clear what you mean by "elders in your community"? Maybe they would go to someone who only "seems"respectable or critical of the government.

I would never advise someone to hire a lawyer. In my understanding, by hiring a lawyer, you grant authority to the courts and the government, which they don't have. (this is more important if you are the defendant). And lawyers have their own interests, their own clubs. Thirdly, even if you had an honest lawyer, it is likely that he is trained not to do certain things. Things that would really help to win a lawsuit. Nothing wrong about asking some advice from a lawyer though.

So I don't agree you should always seek the most professional help you can find, professional is not a synonym for "good"

"you can have someone contact us through our contact page"
Isn't that a bit strange? If they are afraid to contact you they can think about this themselves.

"verifiable evidence that you can personally represent in a court of law"
I am not sure that "represent" is the best verb for "evidence" but as you know I am no native speaker.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby smj on September 28th, 2015, 6:12 pm

Embarrassingly enough, I was an attorney a lifetime ago. I don't have the hustle in my blood so I got out of that racket pretty quickly. I did learn one thing though, you ain't gonna find any justice (whatever the hell that means) in the courthouse. More likely than not, you'll run into characters like the 'masters of disasters', Rudy, and Mukasey.

They all came up together in the southern district of new york we're told...

"Feinberg began his legal career as an assistant US attorney in New York, where his colleagues included young lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Michael Mukasey. Feinberg then made his way to Capitol Hill, where he wound up as a special counsel to the Judiciary Committee and chief of staff for Democratic senator Ted Kennedy. Later, as a court-appointed mediator in private practice, Feinberg helped resolve some of the nation’s biggest damage cases involving asbestos, the Dalkon Shield, and Agent Orange."
http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/p ... -feinberg/

...Mukasey presided over the blind sheik trial from the 93 wtc bombing "investigation" and the Larry Silverstein insurance hustle of course...
http://www.nysun.com/new-york/as-judge- ... -is/36714/

Donald Trump's big sis is an appeals court judge for the 3d circuit over in Philly for feck's sake...


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9FkvCjfRBI
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/fe ... dex11.html


They don't have to sacrifice a limb; they just tell you to go away if you ain't part of the hustle.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby hoi.polloi on September 28th, 2015, 8:18 pm

smj and fbenario,

You're proof enough for me of what I already found out through my travels and investigations of this world — that some lawyers have their heads screwed on right. I won't give up.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby brianv on September 28th, 2015, 8:41 pm

Donald Trump's big sis is an appeals court judge for the 3d circuit over in Philly for feck's sake...

I'd hate to see his brother!

When you go into a court, the twisters (attorneys), the judge, the clerk, everyone is a member of the same club.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby SacredCowSlayer on September 28th, 2015, 10:00 pm

Hoi,

I have been considering your post the last couple of days before responding. It would seem to me that there are basically three tiers of 9/11 players.

The top tier contains the highest level participants, none of which could be expected to blow the whistle. The bottom tier consists of people whose actions were so compartmentalized and limited that they most likely have nothing to reveal, even if they were inclined to speak up. That leaves us with a middle tier group of players who were no doubt carefully selected well before 9/11. Since then bribes and threats have probably been used to keep them in line.

Let's just assume that there are some people with information that are itching to tell someone. Should such a person stumble onto this forum I would recommend that he use a trusted attorney to privately reach out to you so a very careful back and forth could take place. That's what I would do.

Keep in mind that there are essentially no institutional protections for such a person. It would have to be very carefully played in my opinion.

The only thing I might change in the FAQs would be to switch 1. and 2. in the suggested peaceful actions section.

With a due respect to Seneca, going to a lawyer will not grant any authority to the courts or the government. If the lawyer is doing his job then he won't do a thing (let alone divulge any information) without permission or instruction from his client. That said, people should be very careful about which lawyer to trust, just like with any person.

I hope one day soon we will see a person come forward. And by the way, I'm not assuming that nobody has yet come forward. Would we necessarily hear about it if someone had tried?
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby hoi.polloi on October 1st, 2015, 8:50 pm

I agree, and thank you SacredCowSlayer.

Here is another version of the text. What do you think?

1. Know your rights. If you lied or you have had to lie about 9/11, remember the most important thing is making things right for the world by talking about it. Hire a lawyer if you can afford it, discuss your findings with them and investigate your legal options in pursuing witness protection programs, therapy, legal advice and reparations for the media’s psychological attack on your community and/or the world.

2. Know your community. Identify who can and will share your values in speaking the truth. Discuss your story with your community. Lose your fear of persecution, condemnation or victimization. There is an awakening and there is power in numbers. Always use your own perceptions and encourage others to do the same. Please use our web site as a tool to explain to people how it's possible for some perspectives to be drowned out by a cacophony of media.

3. Do your homework. We have done our best to, and to get the word out about what we can prove happened rather than purely speculating about things we cannot know. (e.g.; Did nobody really die? It is an unsustainable position to assert first. But were fabrications and computer graphics used to fictionalize 9/11 deaths? Yes, and it can be proven.) If you and/or your group can write your testimony in clear language, with supporting documents and unambiguous reference to what you need from us, you can have someone contact us through our contact page and we can try to figure out a way to support your community efforts, make your story public and reveal to the world your experience of the media cover-up.


For examples of some possibly real stories that have been sent to us, please see: Visual Control of 9/11
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Re: THE "CHATBOX"

Postby SacredCowSlayer on October 2nd, 2015, 4:40 am

Fbenario,

I tried to respond to your message but it said your settings didn't allow for PM?

You asked me about how I teach my daughter to deal with 911 in class, and the flak she would undoubtedly get for speaking up.

The response I tried to PM is as follows:

That is an excellent question, and I swear I'm not dodging it. My kids are homeschooled, and my wife is well aware of fakery, so it's not an issue.

But we have taught our kids that the vast majority of people simply believe what the people on TV say. We have had numerous discussions as parents and with the kids about how to tell if it is the appropriate person, place, and time to discuss media fakery/deception.

It's not always easy, so we generally only bring it up if we think the person is 1. paying attention to the news 2. being manipulated by it, and 3. is open to hearing about fakery. In other words, we don't want to cast pearls before swine.

I am pleased to report that we have had a number of friends and family wake up to the deception. We are just real careful how we bring it up and how we go about it.

As a father I really do appreciate that question. I'll be glad to expound further if you like.
Also please let me know how I can either email or PM you.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby SacredCowSlayer on October 2nd, 2015, 11:55 pm

Hoi,

That looks solid to me. This site is properly harsh on people here in bad faith, but otherwise it is fair and no nonsense. It would seem the ideal place for a 9/11 insider to come in search of piecing together what happened that day (and since).

Personally I would be thrilled (and honored) to help a 911 whistleblower for no charge. I can't think of anything more rewarding.

Truthfully I wouldn't expect them to have much tangible proof that could be examined here (although I could be and would love to be wrong about that). But they might have names, or knowledge of procedures or events that could be followed up on. I'm certainly game for such an investigation should I get the chance.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby brianv on October 3rd, 2015, 12:13 am

SacredCowSlayer wrote:Hoi,

That looks solid to me. This site is properly harsh on people here in bad faith, but otherwise it is fair and no nonsense. It would seem the ideal place for a 9/11 insider to come in search of piecing together what happened that day (and since).

Personally I would be thrilled (and honored) to help a 911 whistleblower for no charge. I can't think of anything more rewarding.

Truthfully I wouldn't expect them to have much tangible proof that could be examined here (although I could be and would love to be wrong about that). But they might have names, or knowledge of procedures or events that could be followed up on. I'm certainly game for such an investigation should I get the chance.


@SCS Your posts are heavy on the "person", and now we have a "911 whistleblower". Can you show me an instance of the object "person"? And what might a "911 whistleblower" resemble?
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby hoi.polloi on October 3rd, 2015, 1:07 am

SacredCowSlayer wrote:Personally I would be thrilled (and honored) to help a 911 whistleblower for no charge. I can't think of anything more rewarding.


I hope you get a real chance to do that!

Truthfully I wouldn't expect them to have much tangible proof that could be examined here (although I could be and would love to be wrong about that). But they might have names, or knowledge of procedures or events that could be followed up on. I'm certainly game for such an investigation should I get the chance.


Well, hopefully in all the years we've spent around horseshit, we have now developed a keen love of pure clean air, and haven't got the stuff too stuck in our nostrils. I think we'd welcome and embrace real evidence, when and if we come across it. If you read our site very carefully, you will find that we don't declare "everything is fake!" On the contrary, the amount of real things in the world could not ever hope to be cataloged on a site like this. That's the job of the "global sim" the perps are building as our species walks into the scanners — largely obliviously. We can only hope to warn enough people about what's going on — evidence of what really happened behind the evidence of the cover-up would be a potentially killer blow to their whole sim. Goodness grant us that one day, we can hope.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby SacredCowSlayer on October 3rd, 2015, 1:09 am

brianv wrote:
@SCS Your posts are heavy on the "person", and now we have a "911 whistleblower". Can you show me an instance of the object "person"? And what might a "911 whistleblower" resemble?


Brian,

My posts on this thread are in response to Hoi's question directed in part to me about how to make this site inviting and helpful to anyone with inside knowledge who wants to go public. In said posts I was trying to visualize what kind of person out there might have some useful information. It's not that I know of anyone. Indeed I do not.

As to what a 9/11 whisteblower might resemble?
My opinion is that an actual "whistleblower" (in the loosest sense) would not come from an organizer level perp for obvious reasons. The kind of person I imagine would be perhaps a video technician or even a guy who set up cable wire at the WTC (just as examples). Such a person would not be able to blow the whole thing open, but could help put some pieces in place, and maybe lead to something or someone else of value. Sure it would be great to have someone like Rick Leventhal (I consider him mid level) come forward, but I'm doubtful he could even try before being silenced.

My suspicion is that the operation was so compartmentalized that most of the players involved simply don't know enough to be able to come out and do any damage to anyone except themselves. On top of that I doubt the 9/11 organizers left many loose ends.

I hope I answered your question.
Last edited by SacredCowSlayer on October 3rd, 2015, 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby hoi.polloi on October 3rd, 2015, 1:16 am

SacredCowSlayer wrote:The kind of person I imagine would be perhaps a video technician or even a guy who set up cable wire at the WTC (just as examples).


If I am guilty of overestimating it, please let us not also underestimate the power of a small truth against a mountain of lies. These are just two examples of countless minor operatives that I could see actually being a single, alone, but really strong case against the conspirators. Please let them take a chance on humanity, come forward and save the world from the monstrous hoaxers. Even proving as much as they could would indeed lead to a proper discussion exploding in the perps' face. Let that day come soon. It's centuries late.
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Re: To U.S. lawyers: Will this work?

Postby SacredCowSlayer on October 3rd, 2015, 1:41 am

SacredCowSlayer wrote:
Truthfully I wouldn't expect them to have much tangible proof that could be examined here (although I could be and would love to be wrong about that). But they might have names, or knowledge of procedures or events that could be followed up on. I'm certainly game for such an investigation should I get the chance.


Hoi.polloi wrote:
Well, hopefully in all the years we've spent around horseshit, we have now developed a keen love of pure clean air, and haven't got the stuff too stuck in our nostrils. I think we'd welcome and embrace real evidence, when and if we come across it. If you read our site very carefully, you will find that we don't declare "everything is fake!" On the contrary, the amount of real things in the world could not ever hope to be cataloged on a site like this. That's the job of the "global sim" the perps are building as our species walks into the scanners — largely obliviously. We can only hope to warn enough people about what's going on — evidence of what really happened behind the evidence of the cover-up would be a potentially killer blow to their whole sim. Goodness grant us that one day, we can hope.


Hoi,

I didnt mean to suggest that good evidence would be shot down here. I know better than that. As a clarification, what I meant was that if such a person turns up I wouldn't expect them to initially have anything tangible for us to verify. But he may have some information that could be followed up on which could lead to actual evidence.

Even though I'm not optimistic about someone out there willing to speak up, I think this part of the forum is well worth it. As you note, it has the potential to blow the whole thing open.

I do wonder. What would it take for the government and media to be forced to face their own lies?
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