Puglia Train Disaster - 7/12 2016, at 11:47

This is the forum dedicated to all 'minor' local psyops - phony murders, kidnappings and whatnot. It has now become evident that the news media constantly feeds the public with entirely fake stories - in order to keep us in eternal fear of our next-door neighbours and fellow citizens.

Puglia Train Disaster - 7/12 2016, at 11:47

Postby nonhocapito on July 12th, 2016, 7:17 pm

It's big on the news in Italy at the moment a tragic crash between two trains that happened in the province of Bari, in the south of Italy.

Image

So... "my gut feeling" seems to be atm that this event is real and not faked...: 1) hours after the event, no names or photos of victims yet! This seems very natural, for protection of privacy and because it takes time to find and get in touch with all relatives, so that they should not learn from the media. Compare with the Dakha Bekry thing, when hours after the event already the bios of the dead were online. Some people have been interviewed, but, from what I seem to have seen, these people are only direct survivors interviewed in hospital, one woman on site, rescue crew, and a colleague of the men who were part of the train crew. No weeping relatives!! So refreshing!! 2) no detailed/gore imagery of the crash, from which, apparently, journalists are now being kept away 3) I haven't spotted any silly numerology thus far! 4) the event doesn't seem to be too unlikely or too staged since the Puglia region still runs a single track railway (!)
Of course I may be all wrong, and I am ready to document or accept with curiosity clues that should point in a different direction, but accidents do happen and it can be an interesting study to compare reality to fakery for a change.
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Postby nonhocapito on July 13th, 2016, 9:26 am

Still looking at the train crash (and wondering whether this is a real event, and if so, how different is reality from fakery), here's all we are being told about the relatives and the victims, after more than 24 hours:

Il riconoscimento delle vittime. I corpi delle vittime sono nell'obitorio del Policlinico di Bari dove si lavora al riconoscimento da parte dei familiari. "Vi prego, fateci entrare, fateci vedere i nostri cari": è la straziante richiesta che rivolgono i parenti al personale dell'istituto di Medicina legale del Policlinico di Bari.


The identification of victims. The bodies of the victims are at the morgue of the Polyclinic of Bari where it is being handled the identification on part of the relatives. "We beg of you, let us in, let us see our dear ones", it's the excruciating request which the relatives turn to the staff at the Institute of Legal Medicine of the Polyclinic of Bari.


That's it. Despite the emetic rhetoric of these so called journalists/propagandists, it seems like a different music from the immediate indulging on morbid chunks of exposed pain and tears from alleged relatives crying on cue in front of the camera which we usually witness during faked events. Again, unless I am completely off, I feel like readers should "feel" the difference here and, at least subconsciously, wonder about it.

[Edit:]

Ok, I take it back. We actually have at this point a list of victims with a few bios and low-quality, even photoshopped pics.
Image
Image
Image

Not that it proves anything either way yet, but it shows that, if this event was real, the initial differences with fakery tend to be annulled anyway. Maybe this is deliberate... or accidental... Or the event is not real. Can't tell. :mellow:

Meanwhile, here's some pics of the accident:

Image
Image
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Would love to read someone else's impressions.
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Postby brianv on July 13th, 2016, 12:41 pm

Where to start? I sent the last image to fotoforensics.

This is embedded in the image

Originating Program XAWES
By-line FACEBOOK MASSIMO MAZZILLI
By-line Title WEB
City ROMA
Country-Primary Location Name 380
Original Transmission Reference pQ_mW_Xbwfc3dLLknq1b
Headline Scontro treni: sindaco Corato; è disastro, come aereo caduto
Credit ANSA
Source ANSA
Copyright Notice ANSA
Caption-Abstract In una immagine pubblicata su Facebook dal sindaco di Corato, Massimo Mazzilli, lo scontro tra due treni di linea della Bari Nord avvenuto sul tratto a binario unico tra Ruvo di Puglia e Corato, 12 luglio 2016..ANSA/FACEBOOK MASSIMO MAZZILLI.+++ ATTENZIONE LA FOTO NON PUO' ESSERE PUBBLICATA O RIPRODOTTA SENZA L'AUTORIZZAZIONE DELLA FONTE DI ORIGINE CUI SI RINVIA +++
Writer-Editor DRN
IPTC Image Width 960
IPTC Image Height 720
Service Identifier ANSA
Product ID PAOL2 PWEBEXT PHOTO
Envelope Priority 4
Date Sent 2016:07:12
Time Sent 13:54:38+02:00


I haven't heard of XAWES, so I did a little digging, it's an offshoot of XML and credited to an Italian website, http://www.ansa.it/ (mentioned in the blurb) along with being first published on fuckface.com :o

http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?i ... d402.93878

Not sure at all about this nonho, I'll go with my first impressions, the first image of the train wreck did not sit well with me.

The answer may well be at ANSA http://www.ansa.it/
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Postby CluedIn on July 13th, 2016, 1:59 pm

At first I thought this might be real as well, but some of the statements I've been reading are making me re-think. It may be real - but they are using the same type of elements they use in the false flags.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/12/so ... ain-crash/

Mayor posts on FB: "It's as disaster, as if an airplane fell. Rescue workers and civil protection is on the scene, but unfortunately there are victims!"

Paramedics set up an impromptu medical centre among the olive trees, with three helicopters airlifting out the most seriously hurt victims, including a six-year old boy. There were also psychologists on hand to help survivors. - Is this the new norm?

Relatives looking for news of their loved ones were being directed to a sports stadium in Andria. The crisis unit said there were a few foreigners among the injured. - Always taking relatives to odd places.

Coffins were taken to the site (is this normal?) near the city of Bari to carry away the first of the dead as 200 rescue workers sifted through the wreckage in temperatures reaching 40 degrees Celsius.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-12/a ... sh/7623186

And then there is a coincidence in the names of one of the victims from a shooting in western Michigan the other day, and the Chief of Police in Andria:

Court employees Joseph Zangaro, 61, and Ronald Kienzle, 63, were killed when an inmate disarmed an officer while being transferred to a courtroom Monday afternoon, authorities said. Zangaro was head of court security.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michigan-co ... g-officer/

Some of the cars are completely crumpled and the rescuers are extracting people from the metal, many of them injured," Riccardo Zingaro the chief of the local police in Andria, told ANSA at the scene.

Unrelated to this incident, but in the Dallas thread I made a comment that the Mayor made a statement at a press conference that the Dallas PD was at the top of their game in the area of safety - I commented "obviously". And now here we have the guy in charge of court security being one of the dead in this Michigan shooting, who happens to have a very sim-ilar name to the CofP in Andria.
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Postby Flabbergasted on July 13th, 2016, 3:24 pm

nonhocapito wrote:[...] accidents do happen and it can be an interesting study to compare reality to fakery for a change.

A while ago, I raised some questions on the same issue which I think are still very pertinent (regardless of the nature of the event I was commenting on): viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1553&p=2380701

Sometimes I wonder how many "discrepancies" can creep into pictures of real events in ways that are hard to explain. For example, around lunch time on 12 June 2013 I drove past an accident in my neighborhood involving a motorcycle, a bus and a mini lorry. The rear of the bus was still smoking from a fire. The local newspapers published pictures that I might have dismissed as fake or photoshopped if I hadn´t been on the location myself. At some point, the motorcycle was moved, and the mini lorry which I saw sitting atop the raised median must have disappeared, along with a slew of small boxes of merchandise which had fallen off the bucket, before the reporters arrived.

Image

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Postby hoi.polloi on July 13th, 2016, 5:06 pm

I've gotten "hints" over the years that the present state of wholesale invention of the news was spun off of the old reporting methods, which included plenty of staging and framing and doctoring-up photos and texts to be more "appealing".

I wouldn't be surprised if reporters really weren't concerned about truth as much as their old practices of carving the pieces given to them into an artistic image of what they are told is the truth. If all they are given is a script, they will work with that. They will keep getting paid for it until the stories stop coming to them "from above".
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Postby simonshack on July 13th, 2016, 5:09 pm

*

Dear Nonho and Flabbergasted, not saying this train crash is necessarily fake - but here are my two cents - make of them what you will.

Firstly, let's look at this apparent aerial image of the entire 'crash scene' credited to the "Vigili del Fuoco" - The Fire Department - (yet , for some unfathomable reason, it is 'copyrighted' by ANSA, our resident / Italian equivalent of Reuters, Associated Press - or Getty Images) :

Image
http://go-bari.it/immagini/thumb/news/8 ... 130102.jpg
(Note the quite poor resolution of this image - what's the deal with that? Is this normal, in this day and age? Does this image look wholly realistic?)

So let's see: when was this picture taken? Right after the crash, by some Fire Dept helicopter? If so, where are the survivors? Where are the rescue crews and vehicles? Was this image snapped JUST MINUTES after the crash? If so, were ALL the passengers still stunned / crippled / trapped inside the carriages, at this point in time? How many people / how much human activity can you see around the trains? Are we meant to see lots of passengers leaning out of the windows? Or was perhaps this picture taken later, when all the survivors and rescue crews had called it a day and gone home?

Italian newspapers are now saying there are 50 wounded, while 22 people "have been certified as dead" (yet one is still not identified). Wow, can this really happen in the real world - in our day and age? A victim / person which cannot be identified following a fecking traincrash? Really?

Now, dear Nonho, please watch this clip featuring this alleged blonde, sobbing & weeping (with ZERO realism) daughter of a supposed victim. She's apparently very angry - and says that she's afraid that "the powers that be ("i poteri forti") could hide everything" (i.e. the truth of what actually happened).

Strage treni, i parenti delle vittime: "Meritiamo giustizia, vogliamo nomi responsabili"
http://bari.repubblica.it/cronaca/2016/ ... ref=HREA-1
backup URL: http://video.repubblica.it/dossier/pugl ... ef=HRER3-1

Listen also to the next football-fan guy who follows in that video. Here's the transcription of his interview with the lady journalist (who seemingly already knows the answers to all of her questions!):

JOURNALIST: "He was on that train so as not to miss the repetitions (school lessons)...
FOOTBALL FAN: "Exactly, exactly... he had some debts with the school... to pay off...and then, the tragedy happened...
JOURNALIST: "The lesson finished earlier [than expected] and so he took the 11 o'clock train..."
FOOTBALL FAN : "Sure, sure... we then learned last night that he was also on that train..."
JOURNALIST: "What sort of boy [ragazzo] was he?"
FOOTBALL FAN: "Very educated, clever [bravo]...uuhh... smiling towards everyone, with his friends, with everybody - he joked and laughed and played..."
JOURNALIST: "And you've brought him some flowers?..:"
FOOTBALL FAN: "Yes, some flowers and the T-shirt of our football club" [a T-shirt is displayed for the camera - with the all-caps inscription: "REAL FOOTBALL".] You've gotta love it. :rolleyes:

Duh. I don't know about you folks, but to be perfectly honest with you, to ME this "train-crash-in-the-middle-of-nowhere" story stinks to high heaven - yet again... :(

*****
And then we have... viewtopic.php?p=2400823#p2400823 :wacko:
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Postby simonshack on July 13th, 2016, 11:33 pm

*

Yes, we all really need to ask ourselves HOW this could even have happened - IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Just like these smart comments posted over at the Denver Post (are Americans becoming sharper than Italians?) :

Image
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/12/so ... ain-crash/

You can see here that the train path between Andria and Corato (the alleged head-on train crash reportedly happened somewhere between these two towns in Puglia) is virtually a straight line (or in any case, features NO sharp curves / corners / bends) :
https://www.google.it/maps/place/76123+ ... 16.2966406

So how, I ask myself, could the two train drivers have failed to notice that another train was coming along in the opposite direction? And even accepting the possibility that there were some slight bends in the train track (and some trees obscured the view) - are we to believe that this was some sort of 'human error' on the part of the train company (in this day and age? In modern Italy?)

Yeah - "Stupid, stupid, stupid" is the best way to put it.


*******************
Nonho, can you comment on this screenshot from an Italian news video? (Hint: the sharply curved - versus almost straight railway tracks). Aren't those supposed to be the very same red & blue train locomotive in both images?
Image

Image
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Postby simonshack on July 14th, 2016, 11:11 am

*
Initial casualty toll : "27 dead"
We have seen that the death toll has now 'stabilized" at "23 dead" - although many news outlets around the world reported "22 dead (+ 1 "still unidentified victim"). However, it has now emerged that the initial death toll published on many Italian media outlets was "27 dead". In this short article, we can read the 'official explanation' for this 'initial confusion' concerning the total death toll:

"Incidente ferroviario in Puglia, l'elenco delle vittime"
""Sono 23 i morti accertati, di cui uno non ancora ancora identificato, dell'incidente ferroviario in Puglia. "Il numero diffuso ieri di 27, è probabilmente legato al fatto che l'elenco degli scomparsi era di 27 persone". Lo ha riferito il procuratore facente funzioni di Trani, Francesco Giannella, oggi incontrando i giornalisti in Procura.“

"There are 23 confirmed casualties, of which one is still not identified, in the train accident in Puglia. "The number diffused yesterday of '27' [deaths] is probably due to the fact that the list of missing people was 27 ". This was stated by the appointed district attorney of Trani, Francesco Giannella, as he met with journalists today in the prosecutor's office."
http://www.today.it/citta/incidente-tre ... morti.html


The heroic grandma
We now also have the 'touching / heroic' story of a grandmother ("Donata Pepe") who died holding her 6-year-old nephew ("Samuele") in her lap. Little "Samuele", we are told, survived, and as rescuers carried him out of the train wreck they "showed him cartoon animations on a cellphone so as to distract him from the horrific carnage all around him".

"Strage treni in Puglia: l'ultimo "regalo" di Donata, la nonna morta abbracciando il suo nipotino"
http://www.today.it/cronaca/incidente-t ... morta.html

We also 'learn' today that the crash reportedly occurred at precisely "11:47"am (see post below).

Another recent 'development' is that - contrary to early reports which stated that BOTH black boxes had been retrieved ( "Entrambe le scatole nere sono state ricuperate" ) - we are now told that the black box of one of the trains (the yellow one) was totally destroyed in the crash !!! ["andata in frantumi" - i.e. 'smashed to bits'] : https://youtu.be/SWnuaAs_BnM?t=410

This is, if you think about it, totally unbelievable : do they put the black boxes in the front end of modern train locomotives - thus exposing them to frontal impacts? Of course not. So how, pray tell, can a black box possibly suffer severe / terminal damage in a fecking TRAIN crash ???

**********************************************************

So let us now recap / tick off what this Puglia Train Crash media-reported story contains / has featured so far:

- Inconsistent / fluctuating initial death tolls-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES
- Suspicious 'magic' / psyop numerology----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES
- Anomalous / irreconcilable photo & video imagery------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES
- Questionable / odd exif file data embedded in official image files-----------------------------------------------------------YES
- Dubious, 'simmy'-looking "victims" portraits----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES
- Contrived, unrealistic, "grieving family members" (possible 'crisis actors')-------------------------------------------------YES
- 'Heroic sob story' (grandma saving 6-year-old-nephew)-----------------------------------------------------------------------YES
- 'Psychologists on hand to help survivors'--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES
- Black box destruction mystery--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES
- Blue & White-striped shirt seen at 'disaster scene'-------------------------------------------------------------------------------YES

"This is Simon Shack, reporting from the Cluesforum headquarters in Rome - back to the newsroom !" -_-
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Re: Puglia Train Disaster - July 12 2016

Postby simonshack on July 14th, 2016, 12:14 pm

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"11:47"

Scontro treni, un 'urlo straziante' ricorda le vittime del disastro
"Bari Centrale, ore 11.47 del 13 luglio 2016. In stazione il suono dei treni ricorda la tragedia ferroviaria avvenuta 24 ore prima sulla linea a binario unico tra Andria e Corato a causa dello scontro frontale tra due convogli. Il fischio dei treni riecheggia in stazione e in tutte le strade del centro di Bari come un urlo di dolore."

Train crash, a 'heart-breaking wail' remembers the victims of the disaster
"Bari central station, 11:47 on July 13. 2016. In the station the sound of the trains remembers the train tragedy which took place 24 hours earlier [i.e. at 11:47 the day before] on the single train line between Andria and Corato due to the frontal impact between two trains. The whistle of the trains echoes in the station and in all the streets of downtown Bari like a scream of pain."


http://video.repubblica.it/dossier/pugl ... 244/246348

:mellow:
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Re: Puglia Train Disaster - 7/12 2016, at 11:47

Postby mnew9 on July 14th, 2016, 4:33 pm

Aerial film of the aftermath of the train crash apparently taken by a drone. It shows that the track is dead straight with no curves to be seen anywhere near the crash.

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYdbcvhiEMQ
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Re: Puglia Train Disaster - 7/12 2016, at 11:47

Postby CluedIn on July 14th, 2016, 4:47 pm

How convenient that there was that open tract of land next to the "accident" that acted as the staging area for the rescue. I wonder who owns the land?
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Re: Puglia Train Disaster - 7/12 2016, at 11:47

Postby brianv on July 14th, 2016, 5:05 pm

CluedIn wrote:How convenient that there was that open tract of land next to the "accident" that acted as the staging area for the rescue. I wonder who owns the land?


Indeed, and how convenient it was filmed by a drone - thus removing any cameraman from the "chain of custody". Something we are seeing more and more often with CCTV evidence and phone garbage.
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Re: Puglia Train Disaster - 7/12 2016, at 11:47

Postby simonshack on July 14th, 2016, 6:09 pm

CluedIn wrote:How convenient that there was that open tract of land next to the "accident" that acted as the staging area for the rescue. I wonder who owns the land?


Excellent question, dear Cluedin... WHO owns that gigantic football field virgin piece of land ideally-suited to stage a drill coincidentally adjacent to the crash?

Image


mnew9 wrote:Aerial film of the aftermath of the train crash apparently taken by a drone. It shows that the track is dead straight with no curves to be seen anywhere near the crash.

Yup, dear mnew9. I can't see no curve either. Yet, here are two images from the 'crime scene' (as aired by the media) compared. Do they both make sense?

Image
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Re: Puglia Train Disaster - 7/12 2016, at 11:47

Postby hoi.polloi on July 14th, 2016, 6:18 pm

Can we check the perspective in Google Earth?

Not saying that's reliable, but to play nonhocapito's advocate, then we'd have at least one official "take" on this "curve", right? Presumably, it's only visible when looking "up" the track from a straight "on the ground" perspective.

Google Earth has simply "broken" for me on a number of computers, and I can't use it any longer. (I was looking closely at a lot of islands covered by photoshopped-in clouds, though I won't assume that's the reason I can't get it to work). But if someone can check this, we might put the "track bed" issue to rest in peace.
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