9/11 Memorial Scams, Vicsims, Etc

[Maat]

Those are pretty typical from my experience too, Ozzy.

I can vouch for how sappy comments in online memorials can be. I was first struck by that fact years ago when I was searching gif images on 'angel' themes for some webpage graphics, and even song wav files, a lot of personal memorial pages would come up (no connection with 9-11 at all), just families with pages set up for a deceased loved one. Some quite tasteful, others very kitch, often with comments by family, friends etc. addressing the departed in the first person.

Then later, on an interactive poetry site with a huge membership, I remember the kinds of comments left on user pages of long-time members who died (i.e. the authentic, moderator verified-through-family ones of course, not the teens who'd fake it for attention and get busted lol)

So yeah, I'd say the 9-11 hoaxers probably had plenty of online material for 'inspiration.'

[simonshack]

*

"THE SMELL OF YOUR USED SOCKS"

To raise our spirits, let me submit just a sample of the ignominously stupid sort of tripe to be found - almost invariably - in the online tributes and elsewhere. It is supposedly written by Britt Ehnar, the alleged mourning mother of the lone Swedish 9/11 vicsim "David Tengelin":

"Normally when you had been at home and returned to New York you left things here and there for me to pick up later. The last time you only left a pair of used socks on the floor. I did not have time to wash them before 9/11. I still have not and I never will. I smell them every day and they smell of you David. I am so afraid that your smell will vanish. I can see the shape of your feet in the socks. There are some tiny spots of dirt on the outside, and inside I can see tiny pieces of skin, which have come from your feet. This is all I have left of you. I do not usually like the smell of used socks, but these mean everything to me. They contain the last scent you left behind."

I love you,
Mom

http://memorial.mmc.com/pgBio.php?ID=270

Used socks - which stink to High Heaven.

[ozzybinoswald]

I'm not trying to authenticate 9/11 memorial commentary. I'm saying that the 9/11 commentary is a facsimile of something real and so when you are confronted by the original you err if you conclude it's fake on the basis that it resembles its own imitation.

Am I understood?

You may find this hard to believe just now but I'm your very good friend.


p.s The sock schlock is a mockery. A sockery. It's a little more than unlikely it's counterpart will be found in 'the real'. What were they thinking? At least it wasn't underwear.

Here's the impression where your little penis lay, the drip stains so dear to me.

[SimonJCP]

"Normally when you had been at home and returned to New York you left things here and there for me to pick up later. The last time you only left a pair of used socks on the floor. I did not have time to wash them before 9/11. I still have not and I never will. I smell them every day and they smell of you David. I am so afraid that your smell will vanish. I can see the shape of your feet in the socks. There are some tiny spots of dirt on the outside, and inside I can see tiny pieces of skin, which have come from your feet. This is all I have left of you. I do not usually like the smell of used socks, but these mean everything to me. They contain the last scent you left behind."

I love you,
Mom

Dude, that actually challenges my ability to stay properly seated on this chair. My GOODNESS!

I can imagine that after working on a database of fake people for days upon days, a few of these folks started to get bored and stuck stuff like that in there for kicks. Hi-larious.

Look at this lengthy one, by "Paul Tengelin" (Older brother of "David") -- a big tear-inducer, but look at what they sneak inside:

Terrorism must be rooted out. In order to defeat the adversary, our enemy has to be identified. Despite our differences, all people must have an equal say in world affairs. Democracy will only prevail after its opponents have engaged in dialogue. When everyone is incorporated into the global community, we will share common goals and joint responsibilities. That is how human dignity will be upheld and open society safeguarded. We all must be pro-active in preventing the next terrorist attack. I will not let up in the struggle to promote an open, democratic society.

:lol:

[simonshack]

People are saps. This is how they talk and especially teen girls. Show me otherwise.

I'll gladly show you otherwise. It's certainly not only about the "angel-talk", Oz - and you bloody well know it. I dearly hope you won't contend that most 9/11 tributes are written by semi-literate teenagers. Let me remind you that the countless victim profiles (supposedly redacted by professional career journalists - Tony De Palma et al) amount for the silliest shite ever to be produced in the history of journalism. So, let this be said: the cretinous 9/11 prose is not limited to the private, "family-member tributes". It is pervasive and ubiquitous - to such a degree as to trigger howling fits of laughter. Too bad this is an all-too-serious matter.

These are sad times for me, Ozzy, as I used to enjoy your literary verve and irreverent ways. You have either completely lost it and should take a long vacation - or you've been drafted to hug up to - and ultimately undermine and discredit this research from 'within'. It's either the one or the other.

It seems my recently expressed intuitions are turning out to be correct. Someone had to take the dirty job to "come to the rescue" of whatever microscopic credibility the memorial tributes may still have had - in the eyes of the feebly educated, the cognitively impaired or the terminally gullible. It appears to be a role assigned to you. Very sad, indeed.

*****************************************************************

I'm saying that the 9/11 commentary is a facsimile of something real and so when you are confronted by the original you err if you conclude it's fake on the basis that it resembles its own imitation.

So - (just to stay with the 'angel-talk') - would you say that the tributes to "David Angell" (for instance) represent 'a facsimile of something real' ? Do you really have such an abysmally low consideration of average human beings? Do you personally know many people that are so painfully idiotic as to throw 'angel-puns' into an obituary tribute to someone called Angell? Do you also know many people who would, year after year, wish "happy birthday" to a dead man - sometimes even on the wrong date? I fail to see what sort of 'legitimacy' or 'normalcy' you are seemingly attempting to confer to this contemptible tripe:


"ANGELIC" TRIBUTES TO DAVID ANGELL

September 13, 2010


God Bless David and Lynn Angell who are now Angells in Heaven.
~ Suzanne, New Jersey

September 11, 2010 [SEE BELOW!]
Take comfort in knowing that now you have a special guardian angel to watch over you.
~ crystal bratcher, hartwell, Georgia

June 06, 2010
In the arms of the Angels. At peace with God. RIP.
~ James Redmond, Ireland, Alaska

December 08, 2008
Hey lynn, (posted on David's tribute page!)
just wanted to say that i miss you and know that your in better place. it sucks that we lost such a great person like you.
hillsides really lost one of their best "angels".
~ bianca lewis, pasadena, California

September 11, 2007
6 Years Later and we still have not forgotten. David and Lynn you will never be forgotten. I love you both so much and want to thank you for a gift you both gave me. You gave me the gift of strength. I some times feel like I am loosing it all and I look at a picture of my two Angells and thank God for you both.
~ Suzanne N

September 11, 2006
Say hey GB (Good buddy Lynn),
It has been 5 years now since you and Dave have been gone. I still have a hard time conceiving the notion we will not see each other again on this earth. I take solace in knowing that two of the best "Angell's" are watching over us all. I feel your spirit around me so many times. Memories of our friendship while I was just a snotty teen and you were my GB flood my mind today. As we used to say everything is going to be 5, 5, 5 "fine" right?
I love you both!
~ Jeannie Nohles Ellis, Simi Valley, California

September 11, 2006 [SEE ABOVE!]
Take comfort in knowing that now you have a special guardian angel to watch over you.
~ Genaro Sandoval, phoenix, Arizona

February 04, 2006
David and Lynn Angell are the two funniest people in the universe. I never met them personally, but every Tuesday night at 9 pm on NBC I would get my dose of David Angell and his irreplaceable humor and wit. Mr. Angell is a true insperation to me. I was struggling in college at that time with what I wanted to. I was a theater major but had no real direction. After I learned of the attacks in NYC, Washington D.C., and Shanksville PA, I was (not to be funny) touched or guided my guardian Angells named David and Lynn. I started to take a real intrest in screenwriting. Mr. Angell and his wife Lynn are the most beautiful people in the world in the truest sense of the word. This also applies to all of the heros on the planes and in the towers and in PA. Mr. Angell and his wife Lynn were Angells on Earth and on September 11, 2001 at 8:46 am in NYC (ironically back on the East Cost) ,( Mr. Angell said he would move back to Cape Cod , when he was finally taken in by the Hollywood community), he and his wife moved on to their Heavnly reward on the East Cost. The Angells are blessed Angells in Heaven and every time the sun is out or the rain comes down The Angells (David and Lynn) are smiling (sun) or crying(rain). Every time there is a rainbow in the sky that is also The Angells putting there artistic flair into our otherwise dull lives. Thank you both David and Lynn for being... Well just for being. GOD BLESS.
~ Suzanne Newman, New Jersey

THE HAPPY BIRTHDAY WISHERS

August 11, 2009
Happy 60th Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
WRONG DATE & WRONG AGE: "David Angell" was apparently born on APRIL 10, 1946 and would have been 63 in 2009!

April 10, 2009
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
CORRECT DATE - but no age mentioned.

April 12, 2008
Happy Birthday! I am sorry it is two lates but you never age so I still love you and your beautifull wife Lynn.
~ Suzanne, New Jersey
(YEAH, she's sorry to be two days late...now gimme a break! )

April 10, 2008
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
HIM AGAIN - does he wish happy birthday to dead David EVERY DAMN YEAR?

August 11, 2007
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
YES HE DOES - BUT WRONG DATE AGAIN!

April 10, 2007
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
Oh, this time he got it right!! :lol:

If what you're trying to say is that these writings resemble any sort of conventional human behavior, all I have to say is : "get real". If instead what you are saying is : "the perps' idea was to simulate reality while making a mockery of human behavior" - you may well be spot on. That doesn't mean the perps didn't make asses of themselves and are now exposed for the fools that they are.

[ozzybinoswald]

I'm saying that the 9/11 commentary is a facsimile of something real and so when you are confronted by the original you err if you conclude it's fake on the basis that it resembles its own imitation.

So - (just to stay with the 'angel-talk') - would you say that the tributes to "David Angell" (for instance) represent 'a facsimile of something real' ? Do you really have such an abysmally low consideration of average human beings? Do you personally know many people that are so painfully idiotic as to throw 'angel-puns' into an obituary tribute to someone called Angell? Do you also know many people who would, year after year, wish "happy birthday" to a dead man - sometimes even on the wrong date? I fail to see what sort of 'legitimacy' or 'normalcy' you are seemingly attempting to confer to this contemptible tripe:

"ANGELIC" TRIBUTES TO DAVID ANGELL

September 13, 2010


God Bless David and Lynn Angell who are now Angells in Heaven.
~ Suzanne, New Jersey

September 11, 2010 [SEE BELOW!]
Take comfort in knowing that now you have a special guardian angel to watch over you.
~ crystal bratcher, hartwell, Georgia

June 06, 2010
In the arms of the Angels. At peace with God. RIP.
~ James Redmond, Ireland, Alaska

December 08, 2008
Hey lynn, (posted on David's tribute page!)
just wanted to say that i miss you and know that your in better place. it sucks that we lost such a great person like you.
hillsides really lost one of their best "angels".
~ bianca lewis, pasadena, California

September 11, 2007
6 Years Later and we still have not forgotten. David and Lynn you will never be forgotten. I love you both so much and want to thank you for a gift you both gave me. You gave me the gift of strength. I some times feel like I am loosing it all and I look at a picture of my two Angells and thank God for you both.
~ Suzanne N

September 11, 2006
Say hey GB (Good buddy Lynn),
It has been 5 years now since you and Dave have been gone. I still have a hard time conceiving the notion we will not see each other again on this earth. I take solace in knowing that two of the best "Angell's" are watching over us all. I feel your spirit around me so many times. Memories of our friendship while I was just a snotty teen and you were my GB flood my mind today. As we used to say everything is going to be 5, 5, 5 "fine" right?
I love you both!
~ Jeannie Nohles Ellis, Simi Valley, California

September 11, 2006 [SEE ABOVE!]
Take comfort in knowing that now you have a special guardian angel to watch over you.
~ Genaro Sandoval, phoenix, Arizona

February 04, 2006
David and Lynn Angell are the two funniest people in the universe. I never met them personally, but every Tuesday night at 9 pm on NBC I would get my dose of David Angell and his irreplaceable humor and wit. Mr. Angell is a true insperation to me. I was struggling in college at that time with what I wanted to. I was a theater major but had no real direction. After I learned of the attacks in NYC, Washington D.C., and Shanksville PA, I was (not to be funny) touched or guided my guardian Angells named David and Lynn. I started to take a real intrest in screenwriting. Mr. Angell and his wife Lynn are the most beautiful people in the world in the truest sense of the word. This also applies to all of the heros on the planes and in the towers and in PA. Mr. Angell and his wife Lynn were Angells on Earth and on September 11, 2001 at 8:46 am in NYC (ironically back on the East Cost) ,( Mr. Angell said he would move back to Cape Cod , when he was finally taken in by the Hollywood community), he and his wife moved on to their Heavnly reward on the East Cost. The Angells are blessed Angells in Heaven and every time the sun is out or the rain comes down The Angells (David and Lynn) are smiling (sun) or crying(rain). Every time there is a rainbow in the sky that is also The Angells putting there artistic flair into our otherwise dull lives. Thank you both David and Lynn for being... Well just for being. GOD BLESS.
~ Suzanne Newman, New Jersey

THE HAPPY BIRTHDAY WISHERS

August 11, 2009
Happy 60th Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
WRONG DATE & WRONG AGE: "David Angell" was apparently born on APRIL 10, 1946 and would have been 63 in 2009!

April 10, 2009
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
CORRECT DATE - but no age mentioned.

April 12, 2008
Happy Birthday! I am sorry it is two lates but you never age so I still love you and your beautifull wife Lynn.
~ Suzanne, New Jersey
(YEAH, she's sorry to be two days late...now gimme a break! )

April 10, 2008
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
HIM AGAIN - does he wish happy birthday to dead David EVERY DAMN YEAR?

August 11, 2007
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
YES HE DOES - BUT WRONG DATE AGAIN!

April 10, 2007
Happy Birthday!!!
~ Doug Abraham, Livonia, Michigan
Oh, this time he got it right!! :lol:

Without first reading your post I'll respond.

My starting point here was your implied reference to the comments on my cousin's memorial.

Undoubtedly, we will now be constantly offered online memorials to any sort of tragedy featuring crass, stereotyped tributes to 'get acccustomed to the fact' that this is really, in fact, the pathetic level of popular expression. The crass memorial tributes of 9/11 - riddled with 'angels', 'infectious smiles', and 'I-didn't-know-you-but-I-really-care' statements are now scheduled to be subconsciously imprinted in our minds as acceptable absurdities for uncritical consumption.

Now, just on the off chance that the girl really is my recently murdered relative, stop being an asshole.

[Veritasirl]

Ozzy, It is easy to differentiate between the fake sappy tributes and the real sappy tributes by teenage girls. If you check the exif data on the fake memorials pictures you will see that they all have been through Photoshop and all have been downsampled. Another indicator that they have been manipulated is that they have no information on the camera model, time , date or exposure etc. This is because when the ‘Save for web’ option is used in <b>Photoshop</b> that information is lost. Upload a photo that has not been in Photoshop to http://exifdata.com/ and you will get camera model, date, exposure etc.

[ozzybinoswald]

Ozzy, It is easy to differentiate between the fake sappy tributes and the real sappy tributes by teenage girls. If you check the exif data on the fake memorials pictures you will see that they all have been through Photoshop and all have been downsampled. Another indicator that they have been manipulated is that they have no information on the camera model, time , date or exposure etc. This is because when the ‘Save for web’ option is used in <b>Photoshop</b> that information is lost. Up load a photo that has not been in Photoshop to http://exifdata.com/ and you will get camera model, date, exposure etc.

Huh. You don't say.

[hoi.polloi]

I don't think "being an asshole" is much of an insult compared with the accusation of supporting a fake person's existence. Although you say you prepared yourself for this when introducing the connection as part of your personal life, you are now acting as if you did not. What gives?

This is the inevitable direction of the investigation.

In order to compare real memorials to fake memorials, the difference between the two should be identified.

To some people - at least, to myself for one - it will be really hard to buy into any memorial, knowing the extent to which the perps were willing to fake thousands and the lengths they were willing to go to do so.

I would not be surprised if a fake memorial these days could have 100 photos spanning a lifetime of a sim's invented existence and a reasonable facsimile of 'realistic' dialogue - both insulting and mundane - in the tribute comments.

Now, we are being asked to look at a tribute phenomenon created 9 years later and dismiss the advancement of technology or the clear importance that's been placed on discrediting our research, and walk the other way? Is that really your argument? Just accept this thing and move on? You are smarter than that, Ozzy.

You know there is a good reason for us to be lured into this particular kind of bizarre investigation on purpose ... and since it is the inevitable direction until we avoid it, we will just have to go there whether it discredits us in the eyes of some people or not.

The quest for knowledge should continue where it naturally finds paths to do so, or we may as well be accused of giving up on the latest manifestation of the 9/11/Northwoods/PNAC/Globalist/whatever group's deceptive tactics.

It's up to you. You can either say "it's personal" and leave our unanswered questions hanging in the air or you can take it; am I being unreasonable?

[ozzybinoswald]

the accusation of supporting a fake person's existence.

I've pretty much had enough.

You prove she's fake and maybe explain to everybody why one more time and I'll just grieve.

Fuck. You.

[hoi.polloi]

Personally, I can't guess why. You seemed like one of the good ones most of the time.

I can't prove she's fake but I definitely can't prove she's real based on these tribute documents.

[Dcopymope]

People are saps. This is how they talk and especially teen girls. Show me otherwise.

I'll gladly show you otherwise. It's certainly not only about the "angel-talk", Oz - and you bloody well know it. I dearly hope you won't contend that most 9/11 tributes are written by semi-literate teenagers. Let me remind you that the countless victim profiles (supposedly redacted by professional career journalists - Tony De Palma et al) amount for the silliest shite ever to be produced in the history of journalism. So, let this be said: the cretinous 9/11 prose is not limited to the private, "family-member tributes". It is pervasive and ubiquitous - to such a degree as to trigger howling fits of laughter. Too bad this is an all-too-serious matter.

These are sad times for me, Ozzy, as I used to enjoy your literary verve and irreverent ways. You have either completely lost it and should take a long vacation - or you've been drafted to hug up to - and ultimately undermine and discredit this research from 'within'. It's either the one or the other.

It seems my recently expressed intuitions are turning out to be correct. Someone had to take the dirty job to "come to the rescue" of whatever microscopic credibility the memorial tributes may still have had - in the eyes of the feebly educated, the cognitively impaired or the terminally gullible. It appears to be a role assigned to you. Very sad, indeed.

*****************************************************************

To raise our spirits, let me submit just a sample of the ignominously stupid sort of tripe to be found - almost invariably - in the online tributes and elsewhere. It is supposedly written by Britt Ehnar, the alleged mourning mother of the lone Swedish 9/11 vicsim "David Tengelin":

"Normally when you had been at home and returned to New York you left things here and there for me to pick up later. The last time you only left a pair of used socks on the floor. I did not have time to wash them before 9/11. I still have not and I never will. I smell them every day and they smell of you David. I am so afraid that your smell will vanish. I can see the shape of your feet in the socks. There are some tiny spots of dirt on the outside, and inside I can see tiny pieces of skin, which have come from your feet. This is all I have left of you. I do not usually like the smell of used socks, but these mean everything to me. They contain the last scent you left behind."

I love you,
Mom


See, Ozzy - no angels there. It's about socks. And they stink to High Heaven. <_<

This sounds more like some kind of report of a crime scene investigation out of the TV show CSI than a genuine memorial tribute. What the hell is with the part about tiny pieces of skin being found in his socks? Is that something that you would remember and write about a deceased loved one? Who the hell wrote this Jeffrey Dahmers sister or something?

[simonshack]

I've pretty much had enough.

"I'VE PRETTY MUCH HAVE HAD ENOUGH"...

You've "pretty much have had enough" ?

Enough of what, Ozzy?

What are you complaining about? I have offered my condolences to you for your cousin's terrible demise. At the same time, I'm fully entitled to be concerned about that tragic event - and so are you. Does it not occur to you, for instance, that it might be a Mafia-style warning targeted at your persona? In Sicily, it's a well-known practice of the Mafia to kill a family member of someone who opposes their clan. If I were you, I would collect every possible information about your cousin's murder and publish it online. What keeps you from doing just that?

On the other hand, I believe you are just conning us all. The odds of this occurence are pretty astronomical - and you know why I'm saying this. I can read your "I've pretty much have had enough" statement in this way: You've had enough of the role that you've been cast in. What a thankless, shitty job it must be...

Personally, I have had enough of those jerks pretending to unveil the 9/11 hoax and posing as real, legitimate truthseekers. Entities such as:

- Nico Haupt
- Michael Moore
- Rosalee Grable - aka "The Webfairy"
- Paula Gloria
- Peggy Carter
- Warren Cuccurullo
- Alex Jones
- Dave Von Kleist
- Rick Siegel
- Ace Baker
- Manny Badillo
- Bob McIlvaine
- Donna Marsh O'Connor
- Luke Rudowski
- Dylan "Tex" Avery
- Jason Boremas
- "Killtown"
- "Slick"
- "Quest"
- David Ray Griffin
- Phil Jayhan
- "Rasga Saias"
- "Jeff Hill"
- "Genghis"
- "Youzurk"
- "Youroom101"
- "Yougenedebs"
- Anthony Lawson
- Judy Wood
- Richard Gage
- Jim Hoffman
- David "The Messiah" Shayler
- Morgan Reynolds
- Jim "JFK" Fetzer
- etc... (my patience and memory stops here)


What a joke this all is. And you, Ozzy, are now emerging as just another pawn of this sorry little crowd. I only hope your friend Fred isn't yet another member of your tightknit 9/11 gatekeeping community. If so, he's surely smarter than you. For now, I'll give Fred the benefit of doubt since his Octopus video helped me up waking up to the reality of the 9/11 fakery. That is, if the 'Fred' we have on this forum is the same "bsregistration"-entity who made the "9/11 Octopus" videos.

See Ozzy, my way of interpreting this planet is kinda 'geographical': just a bunch of islands separated by vast areas of water. I feel bad for what's going on over there on your side - USA/Canada and the lot - letting your own governments play with your minds as if they were chips in a poker game. Of course, things are no better over here since our European leaders are nothing but bootlicking, sycophantic American puppets who ( to use your favorite expression) 'bow down' to their Masters.

Yeah - I've pretty much have enough of this sh@t. But I'll keep calling the 'Power-Clowns' out.

[ozzybinoswald]

Enough of what, Ozzy?

What are you complaining about? I have offered my condolences to you for your cousin's terrible demise. At the same time, I'm fully entitled to be concerned about that tragic event - and so are you. Does it not occur to you, for instance, that it might be a Mafia-style warning targeted at your persona? In Sicily, it's a well-known practice of the Mafia to kill a family member of someone who opposes their clan. If I were you, I would collect every possible information about your cousin's murder and publish it online. What keeps you from doing just that?

On the other hand, I believe you are just conning us all.

Maybe you can't follow this sequence but your presumption that I'm conning you makes your so-called condolence fall a little flat.

The odds of this occurence are pretty astronomical

Is that right? Exactly what numbers have been selected to go into that equation? How does one make that calculation? Do you know I also knew another girl named Rena Virk who became famous around here when she was murdered under a bridge by girls from school? she was in my aunt's foster care for a time. She became a textbook case. I myself wound up studying her ina Criminal Justice class. What are the odds?

You can think whatever you choose. You can decide to create a fake exchange with a pretend Italian in order to yourself introduce this information which I claim is true, pronounce her fake because she smiles and looks into the camera making her cutesy face, constantly limit the possible answers to a polarized either/or as you prefer, say that although you can't prove her fake, she is, and no evidence will be sufficient to admit her reality so she;s simply fake "because" and say that to state otherwise is 9/11 gatekeeping.

Sort of like Webfairy telling me I'm keeping free energy from the world if I deny the waver in the hole is Edna Cintron.

Although it appears many of the shabbier fake victims are true vicsims, nearly complete digital morphs, the fake victims of any substance have again and again been seen to be human models with only slightly digitally obscured features.

A tiny girl from my extended family was ambushed and her head was smashed in a mere 6 days ago. That's a fact. It's not her that is false, it's your overextended theoretical construct being applied where nothing at all indicates it should be.

Like Fred said, she's not being portrayed as a suicide bomber trained by Al-Qaeda. This entire scene wasn't staged just to fool you into believing she was real.

You pretend otherwise and you act as if this conclusion arrived at without the requisite logical premise, is a brave and noble posture. You know what? It's something else altogether.

It's stupid and thoughtless and it is I who have every reason to believe that you are the shill, attributing fake quotes to me exactly like D.Duck, intentionally discrediting the research thus far, provoking this ridiculous but telling dialogue.

You Simon. You go add yourself to the shill pile. Because I'm the honest one here.


Here's an alleged photo of myself taken 20 years ago in a local vegetarian restaurant. Was I real?



- corners of the lips don't meet
- probable wig
- eyes Marty Feldmanesque
- vegetarian isn't really food


I provide, you decide.

[Piper]

I find it quite sad to see this happening, but seeing as how I am not considered a "contributor" anyway and my last two posts in this thread have been either ignored completely or not taken seriously at all, I feel it is now time for me to take my leave.

Hoi, if you seriously believe that the National Hockey League produced fake videos of a hockey player from the late 1960s (before the WTC was even built) to the 1980s, that all photos of this hockey star as well as all his interviews and appearances during hockey games are faked, and that even the autographs that people got of "Ace" Bailey at games are fakes too... well I don't know what to think.

I first contacted you when your "Not-It Brothers" video came out, praising your research but also pointing out a few errors I had found (such as the "disappearing" sign that is in fact seen to keep rolling around on the floor in the DVD quality version). I have admired your research ever since, up to and including the amazing and incredibly important Vicsim Report, but your attacking and banning someone because they claim a bona fide hockey star to be real worries me. Yes, some of the language used in that post was rather shill-like, I agree, but I honestly believe Bailey existed. He probably didn't die on 9/11 or anywhere near New York, of course, his name only being used to bolster the reality of the vicsims, but the man existed until I see evidence to the contrary, which I doubt exists.

During my time as a contributor here and at 911movement I possibly helped open your eyes wider to the extent of the fakery that permeates this world ("nukes" being only the tip of the iceberg), so I am glad of that small contribution and will likely keep following your work as well as Simon's, but your disbelief in someone whose existence as a real person can be attested to by thousands of hockey fans who saw and met him in person over the course of 30+ years is a bit much to take.

I wish the best of luck to you, hoi, and to Simon and Ozzy and the (very few) others here whose research into 9/11 I have much respect for, and I thank you for exploring and exposing the biggest and most important pieces of the whole 9/11 media deception.

Piper (a.k.a. Michel)