Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby HonestlyNow on August 26th, 2014, 2:31 pm

Simon --
What I'm gathering from looking at my own location data, and clicking "all passes," is that daylight passes are counted as not visible. So your friend won't see the pass of which you speak because there's too much daylight at his location.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby simonshack on August 26th, 2014, 2:36 pm

Seneca wrote:For some reason It is 1 hour earlier in Marrakesh then in Rome, not later as we would expect.
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/morocco/marrakech

8:07 CEST (rome)= 6:07 UTC
8:42 WEST(marrakesh)= 7:42 UTC

the thing is visible in marrakesh 95 minutes later then in Rome.

Thanks Seneca , my bad - I got mixed up for a minute there - with the CEST vs WEST time zones.
Have now removed the Marrakech part of my last post to avoid confusion, we need none of that ! :)

The Barcelona question remains: why won't my friend Juan see the "thing" tonight?

edit: you're right, Honestly Now - thanks! Well my "ISS" questions for today have been cleared up.
I warmly thank all contributors - as I go and have some lunch, followed by some humble pie for dessert!
:(
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby simonshack on August 27th, 2014, 3:32 am

°


"SPOT THE STATION" and "HEAVEN ABOVE" compared


In January 2013 I subscribed to NASA’s “Spot the Station”e-mail alert service. Ever since, they have been sending me e-mail alerts which basically told me when to walk out in my garden to watch the “ISS” – either soon after sunset / late at night/ or in the early morning hours. I’d like to stress the fact that I have NEVER received more than two alerts within the same day – and that large time gaps would often occur between a given series of “ISS” passes and another. I didn’t give too much thought to the fact that, if the “ISS” orbits Earth every 92 minutes or so (as claimed by NASA), I should be able to see it at least once every single day /or night, of course.

I must say that the dozen or so “ISS” flyovers that I’ve been able to observe have always had the “ISS” appearing in my skyline fairly consistently ‘on schedule’ – although generally a few (or several) minutes later than the officially released NASA time.

Imagine my shock when I discovered today that – according to “HEAVENS ABOVE” (another website which tracks the “ISS”) - the “Thing” would actually be visible from Rome PRETTY MUCH EVERY SINGLE DAY – and, occasionally, up to 3 / to 5 times within a single day! So, in any case – and as a first, logical conclusion - if the HEAVENS ABOVE data is true, NASA has been cheating me ever since I signed up to their “Spot the Station” alert service. They have only been sending me some partial / selected / sporadic alerts of “ISS” Rome fly-overs. The lazy bastards.

So I started comparing my old data collection of “ISS” Spot the Station e-mail alerts - with the HEAVENS ABOVE data - to see if my Rome-flyover data (received from NASA's "Spot the Station") at least matched with the HEAVENS ABOVE data. At first glance, they seemed pretty consistent (aside from some 'minor' discrepancies) – and, in any event, seemed to confirm that I was correctly comparing the two databases (and that I wasn't erroneously looking at some unrelated data - or entered wrong longitude/latitude data for "Rome, Italy" at the HEAVENS ABOVE search engine ) :

For instance, here is the compared data of two “ISS” flyovers that I witnessed myself, on April 19 and June 1 of this year:

April 19 – 2014 ROME flyover
SPOT the STATION: Time: Sat Apr 19 - 22:06, Visible: 1 min, Max Height: 55 ° - Appears: NW, Disappears: NW > witnessed myself
HEAVENS ABOVE: Time: Sat Apr 19 - 22:03 , Visible: 3min, Max Height: 61° - Appears: NW, Disappears: NW

June 1 – 2014 ROME flyover
SPOT the STATION: Time: Sun June1 - 4:59 AM , Visible: 6 min, Max Height 54° - Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE > witnessed myself
HEAVENS ABOVE: Time: Sun June1 - 5:00 AM Visible: 6:33min, Max Height: 57° - Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE

As you can see, apart from some minor discrepancies, the data of the two “ISS” alert services appear to match pretty closely. Well, you could say that the two APRIL 19 timelines are a bit odd, since they differ by 3 minutes (22.06 versus 22:03). In 3 minutes, of course, the “ISS” [according to its alleged speed of 28.000km/h] would travel for as many as 1440km! One wonders how NASA could possibly be 'unsure' of the exact location of it's "ISS" - at all times... However, I was now reasonably satisfied that I was not comparing some entirely wrong/ unrelated / incomparable data.

But – and this is a BIG “but”! – as I patiently proceeded to compare further data of the two websites, I started bumping into an ever-growing number of increasingly absurd / inexplicable discrepancies.

For instance, here’s the comparison of the July 17-2014 data of the two “ISS-tracking portals”:

July 17 – 2014 ROME flyover
SPOT the STATION: Time: Thu July 17 - 5:11AM , Visible: 4 min, Max Height 87° - Appears: SW, Disappears: NE
HEAVENS ABOVE: : Thu July 17 - 4.50AM , Visible: 6 min, Max Height 58° - Appears: SW, Disappears:ENE

Here we have a full 21-minute discrepancy (5.11AM versus 4:50AM) between the two “ISS-tracking portals”. This means that, if I had trusted the HEAVENS ABOVE “ISS flyover” timeline, I would have had to patiently hang around for 21 minutes , staring up in the empty sky, before finally witnessing the “ISS” appearance !

But it gets worse. :blink:

Here’s the comparison between the June 19, 2014 “ISS” Rome-flyovers – as published by the two sites. There was, according to both websites, one and only one visible “ISS” Rome-flyover that day.

June 19 – 2014 ROME flyover
SPOT THE STATION: Time: Thu June 19 - 21:35 - Visible: 4 min, Max Height 51° - Appears: NNW, Disappears: ESE
HEAVENS ABOVE: Time: Thu June 19 - 22:11 - Visible: 5 min, Max Height 70° - Appears: WNW, Disappears:SE

Here we have a full 36-minute discrepancy between what simply cannot be meant to be two different, June 19 2014 Rome flyovers of the “ISS”. (Note: in a 36min time-frame, the "ISS" - as sold by NASA - should travel for ... 17.280 km!) So what exactly is going on here? If the HEAVENS ABOVE website is a joke (or NASA's own ISS website is a joke) what other jokes are they playing on us ?


Lastly, here's a screenshot from HEAVENS ABOVE - just to show that, according to their database, the "ISS" was visible over the Rome skyline for as many as FIVE times on a single day (June 7, 2014):
Image
http://www.heavens-above.com/PassSummar ... 114&tz=CET (verify this for yourself! Enter "Rome, Italy" as your location, and browse their ISS tracking page.)


Yet, NASA's "Spot the Station" alert service only sent me this single alert message back then !
Time: Sat Jun 07 (2014)3:19 AM, Visible: 4 min, Max Height: 64°, Appears: WNW, Disappears: SSE

Go figure. In any case, something doesn't add up here, folks. Should we perhaps contact "HEAVENS ABOVE" for clarification?
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby tak47 on August 27th, 2014, 8:03 am

i guess this heaven's above page is just utter crap. this is what i get:

Image
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Image
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby simonshack on August 27th, 2014, 1:51 pm

*

ISS SHILL ALERT


Wel, well, well - dear tak47. If that HEAVENS ABOVE site is an utterly phony "ISS tracker" - as it certainly appears to be - this is a very serious matter indeed. Who (other than the "NASA shilling & obfuscation" dept.) would go to all the trouble of setting up and running such an intricate "ISS flyovers" database? To be sure, the phony data to be found on HEAVENS ABOVE search engine can be used by NASA SHILLS (in the wider social media and forums like ours) to "convince" unsuspecting / casual readers (i.e. MOST people) that the "ISS" can actually be observed at 93min intervals (which is simply not true). This would, of course, allow the shills to put an abrupt end to any ISS 'conspiracy' discussions: "Hey folks! The ISS can be spotted with your bare eyes up to five times a day - at 93min intervals! So how do you think they could fake THAT, you morons?"

Hmm, let me see...WHO was it now again that tried to pull off this precise stunt - right here on our forum? ...Oh, right... :

Evil Edna wrote:Hi, Simon, I have witnessed a few "ISS" flyovers. The last one I saw (2012, iirc) was unusual** - insofar as there were actually two visible flyovers within an hour of each other. The media reported it as unusual which is what prompted me to go outside (twice) to check on it. I literally walked no further than the street outside and, even under the powerful street lights, the "ISS" was still very much visible on both flyovers. The NEAs, by contrast, could never be seen under the same urban conditions; lost to unaided sight because of their much lower light intensity. I appreciate what you're saying but I do still struggle, admittedly as a stargazing rookie, to see what else, other than those differing light intensities, distinguishes the "ISS" from the NEAs. Is there any way you could further clarify (to a rookie) exactly how they differ? Their altitudes above the local horizon, and the apparent speed of motion across the sky of some of the NEAs don't seem very different (at least not to me) to those observed "ISS" flyovers. Could it be a perception issue that low-light intensity NEAs just appear much further away, and maybe they are, comparatively? The "ISS" is perhaps still millions of miles away, but closer than all other NEAs by several/many magnitudes? That's the depth of my sincere if amateur observation!

** EDIT: It seems that "double flyovers" of the "ISS" are not that uncommon. There was apparently a visible "double flyover" very recently (7 August 2014) when, from the same earthly view-point in England, the "ISS" thingy could be observed twice in 93 minutes:

Image
DOUBLE FLYOVER

How could the double-flyover be achieved using a "decoy" - a conventional high-altitude aircraft? Three possibilities, maybe? (i) use two decoys, the second following in close succession. (ii) turn the decoy round very sharply and fly the same/similar path twice; (would that be disguisable?) or (iii) fly the decoy all the way round the world (which doesn't see feasible in the time available) -- for the 'decoy' to do that in 93 minutes it would have to fly round the world at a speed of ~25,000 km/h.


What a slick way to 'inject doubt' in research efforts such as ours, huh? :rolleyes:

EE's claim that "the media reported this as unusual" is obviously utter bullcrap - and a bare-faced silly lie. The rest of EE's post is more of the same - and I do not believe a single word of it. I am well and truly done with the Evil Edna character (aka the dreaded "Psyopticon" over at Fakeologist.com). He can go and shave his legs in the bathtub while delusively singing Nessun Dorma. That will hopefully keep him off the keyboard for a while. He may then resume his clammy trolling antics over at Godlike Productions - a more suitable place for the garrulous clown.

But back to the "ISS": please know that, since I subscribed to NASA's "Spot the Station" alert service, there have never been two successive "ISS" flyovers within a 93-minute time-frame. The closest Rome flyovers I have in my STS data collection are, at the minimum, 18h19min apart (or 1099min - or approx 92min X12).

Example from June 4, 2013:
Time: Tue Jun 04 22:58 , Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 50°, Appears: WSW, Disappears: NE
Time: Tue Jun 04 4:39, Visible: 6 min, Max Height: 75°, Appears: NW, Disappears: ESE

So no, the "ISS" - as far as I know, has NEVER been spotted twice within a 92min time interval. You will have to wait at least 18hours and 19minutes to spot two successive flyovers of the "Thing".
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby simonshack on August 27th, 2014, 2:51 pm

tak47 wrote:i guess this heaven's above page is just utter crap. this is what i get:


Yes, tak47. But here's the problem: NASA clearly endorses this Chris Peat and his phony HEAVENS ABOVE website:

"Sunset is when the ISS will be visible from North America this week. To find out exactly when, visit one of these three popular web sites:
Chris Peat's Heavens Above, Science@NASA's J-Pass or NASA's SkyWatch. Each will ask for your zip code or city, and respond with a list of suggested spotting times."
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2002/11jun_spaceship/


So, what do you make of this, tak? Any opinions? :mellow:
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby tak47 on August 27th, 2014, 3:37 pm

simonshack wrote:
tak47 wrote:i guess this heaven's above page is just utter crap. this is what i get:


Yes, tak47. But here's the problem: NASA clearly endorses this Chris Peat and his phony HEAVENS ABOVE website:

"Sunset is when the ISS will be visible from North America this week. To find out exactly when, visit one of these three popular web sites:
Chris Peat's Heavens Above, Science@NASA's J-Pass or NASA's SkyWatch. Each will ask for your zip code or city, and respond with a list of suggested spotting times."
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2002/11jun_spaceship/


So, what do you make of this, tak? Any opinions? :mellow:


i really have no clue. :huh: (i didn't even know this heavens-above page before reading in here about it)

i always use http://iss.astroviewer.net/observation.php and whenever i went out the thing was visible.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby simonshack on August 27th, 2014, 8:30 pm

*


IS the ISS "impersonated" by solar-powered drones?

There comes a time when - as we research the hoaxes & illusions of this world - we need to offer a plausible, no-nonsense alternative explanation of the frauds that we diligently keep calling out. I will now 'take the plunge', and offer my personal, reasonable and observational-founded supposition as to exactly how the "ISS" fraud is upheld. Here follows the little we know for certain - and can empirically verify - about the "ISS":

- It appears in our night skylines at time intervals no shorter than 18h19min (or about 18,2 hours).
- It can easily be mistaken by any casual observer for the navigation (fuselage) spotlights of any normal aircraft
- A more observant observer will note that it appears to move slower than, say, a commercial aircraft at standard cruise altitude and speed (about 11km and 900km/h).

Here's some info about the SOLARA - an American-built solar-powered drone :

"Solara, the Atmospheric Satellite"
"The Solara—a line of solar-powered robotic airplanes capable of staying aloft for years at a time."
"The aircraft is meant to carry a small payload to altitudes around 20 kilometers into the stratosphere, where the air is idyllically calm."

"Titan Aerospace’s high-flying drones could deliver satellite services without leaving the atmosphere."
http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/avia ... -satellite


We also know that NASA has been experimenting (& developing for several years) with solar-powered drones - such as, for instance, this ZEPHYR - which can stay aloft for over 150 hours at a time at high altitudes: http://www.defencetalk.com/zephyr-solar ... rds-27581/

Now, what if the most advanced drones of this type (i.e. military-classified) are capable of a speed of, say, 740km/h at, say, 22km of altitude? Well we don't know that, but this will be, for the purpose of my following argumentation, the working postulation upon which I will base my present thesis. Not being an aeronautics expert, I will defer to such experts the question of whether the aforementioned speed & altitude are realistic / feasible or not. For the little I know, I believe that our current technology would allow us to build an aircraft which can easily achieve this. At 22km of altitude, the air (resistance) is very thin, and a high-tech solar-powered aircraft should be able to reach these speeds (740km/h is, after all, only slightly more than twice the speed of an Indianapolis racing car). By the way, the size of such an "ISS-impersonating" aircraft need not be very large at all - since it would fly almost twenty times lower than the alleged "400km" altitude of the "ISS".

So, without further ado, here is my graphically illustrated "wild speculation" as to how the "ISS" illusion may have been technically constructed :

By "solar drones", I of course mean to say SOLAR-POWERED DRONES:
Image

Could the "ISS" possibly be simulated with three solar-powered drones? Is it technically plausible? It would seem so.

Or do you prefer to believe NASA's story, i.e. that the "ISS" is a football-field-size machine weighing 450 tons (408,000 kg) which was built piecemeal thanks to several Space Shuttle missions - and that now keeps revolving around Earth at hypersonic speeds, without fuel nor engines - and without ever being reclaimed by Earth's gravity?

By all means, you are free to buy it - and eat it too! Would you like some cream-topping on that? <_<
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby Seneca on August 27th, 2014, 9:30 pm

We should be able to calculate the speed of the thing if we have 2 observant observators in different places on the same trajectory. Not too much apart to make sure they see the same thing.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby lux on August 27th, 2014, 10:03 pm

An interesting blurb about a recent solar drone ...


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmN13LnBk3c

They are now calling these things "atmospheric satellites" and saying they can do what satellites have supposedly been doing previously without the expense of launching them into space. See this.

This reminds me of the recent and current decommissioning of "nuclear" power plants. It's as if they are covering their asses by backing out of hoax technologies as the public begins to become aware of the implausibility of them. They know they are lying and they know that we know it too. They also know that their bullshit "space technologies" won't hold up to scrutiny forever once they begin to be questioned.

But anyway, I think the idea that the ISS is really one of these solar drones seems quite plausible. Other types of "space satellites" may well be these things too, I think.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby HonestlyNow on August 27th, 2014, 11:06 pm

Seneca wrote:We should be able to calculate the speed of the thing if we have 2 observant observators in different places on the same trajectory. Not too much apart to make sure they see the same thing.


If you're looking to calculate actual speed between two points in the craft's path, the two points being relative to the surface of the globe where each observer looking toward the path of the craft in the sky as the craft passes from observed point "A" to observed point "B," then would you not also need the actual elevation of the craft to calculate it's speed, since the closer the craft is to the earth, the slower it's calculated speed? How would you propose to get the craft's elevation?
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby tak47 on August 28th, 2014, 8:00 am

i think it is not possible to fake the ISS from low altitude because it wouldn't be visible from such (horizontal) distance. i live near stuttgart and on clear nights the thing becomes visible when it's over england. on standard airplane altitude the visibility radius would be way smaller.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby Seneca on August 28th, 2014, 11:12 am

tak but how do you know it is above england?
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby tak47 on August 28th, 2014, 11:27 am

Seneca wrote:tak but how do you know it is above england?


otherwise the people in england wouldn't see it at the same time. the whole schedule/positioning wouldn't add up if it weren't flying that high.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby Seneca on August 28th, 2014, 4:08 pm

tak47 wrote:
Seneca wrote:tak but
how do you know it is above england?


otherwise the people in england wouldn't see it at the same time. the
whole schedule/positioning wouldn't add up if it weren't flying that
high.
but you dont know if it adds up. or do you have proof???
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