The Empty Towers

It has taken less than 10 years to pry open the can of worms enshrouding the pathetic 9/11 scam. The central role of the major newsmedia corporations to pull off this sordid "terror" simulation has now been comprehensively exposed. Before joining this forum, please get familiar with the research at: http://www.septemberclues.info

Re: The Empty Towers

Postby bostonterrierowner on May 25th, 2011, 8:56 am

nonhocapito wrote:
bostonterrierowner wrote:I was just trying to find another , preferably official source to confirm FOIA WTC OCCUPANCY lIST. I couldnt find it anywhere. The primary source always is Lets Roll Forums. Maybe you can guys help?


I think the source of that FOIA is the letsroll forum, at least this is what I infer from this post: http://letsrollforums.com/press-release ... 24256.html

Otherwise look up StevenWarran website, there might be other sources there. Actually it matters so little, since all these FOIA things popping up on the internet can be so easily filled with fake material (cf. the NIST videos collection)...


Thanks Nonhocapito but I was thinking about something more official like some government site posting all FOIA requests made by citizens etc. I tried od PANYNJ website and many others and still couldnt verify this list . I dont want to offend anyone but I realized that somebody just announced "we have this list !" and I just jumped on it.

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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby bostonterrierowner on May 25th, 2011, 9:39 pm

I have decided to spend some hours researching FOIA WTC OCCUPANCY LIST which was aquired by LETS ROLL FORUMS from Port Authority of New York and New Jersey this april. Since I couldnt find any official source of FOIA releases I had to compare it to something. I tried various departments FOIA sections but to no avail. On PANYNJ official website I didnt succeed either , though I localized the form for my own FOIA request :) I copmared it to the list from CoStar Group , INC . This one I found on CNN website and it was dated 2001. There are lots of weak points to this thing unfortunately. Let me summerize my conclusions : There were 205 companies with leases on 9/11 according to CNN list. If I counted them correctly there are around 220 firms on FOIA list. Number is very similar. Its very easy to open an LLC in USA so there is lots of room for manuver regarding being in D&B database. 75 % WTC 1 firms from CNN list is also present on FOIA list. 50 % WTC 2 firms from CNN shows up on FOIA as well. They differ pretty much so at least one of them by logic must be fictitious . Or both . Given MSM credibility I am giving LETS ROLL benefit of the doubt. SteveWarren made his own list using the FOIA's one as a platform. He concluded that eg. 79 companies from WTC 1 didnt exist in Dun and Bradstreet data base. I checked his research and it doesnt hold water. Again , 18 fakes from SW's list show up on both CNN , FOIA lists . Lets take care of them. at least 5 of them are in D&B with exact spelling , to the single letter. There are 9 firms in D&B with very similar names. I can bet that if I went with all of them through the d&b browser I would have found majority of them registered. You just cant rely on SW's research , he makes mistakes far too often , hence I am afraid its all badly flawed. Adding it to the probably fake pictures of interior he is circulating , maybe his agenda is not 100% legit. FOIA list must be crossed checked somehow. Maybe its a wrong bait? Maybe there is one more possible angle to look at matters from? What was going on in the towers that they had to be destroyed like this?With perfect evidence removal and monstrous cover-up . Just thinking aloud


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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby Tufa on May 29th, 2011, 12:51 pm

I would like to go back to this image, mostly to clarify my opinion, and to inform any new-comers to the forum that this picture is possibly a total fabrication:

Image

Many threads and posts ago, some one (like simon) noted that in the beginning of the TV-archive version of the event, right at the beginning, the TV news anchor emphasise that the weather is "picture-perfect" bright clear sunny morning in N.Y. It could simply be that this is all wrong. I have understood that a grey and cloudy day is the normal for the period of the year.

My view is that all available photos of the burning towers are fabricated, on the grounds that the 9/11 of 2001 was not a sunny day. Or, to put it in another setting, if the day was a clear day we would have had thousands of private 9/11 photos all over the net, with several hundreds "facebook" sites having massive amounts of these pictures. In high resolution with time stamps. There is a trick, that I have found, to tell if the amateur photo is real or not. Keeping this to myself, I'll tell you if I see a photo to meet this test criteria.
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby simonshack on May 29th, 2011, 11:15 pm

Tufa wrote:
My view is that all available photos of the burning towers are fabricated, on the grounds that the 9/11 of 2001 was not a sunny day. Or, to put it in another setting, if the day was a clear day we would have had thousands of private 9/11 photos all over the net, with several hundreds "facebook" sites having massive amounts of these pictures. In high resolution with time stamps.


Yes, Tufa - I can fully follow this logic.

In fact, as they had to do a pre-fabricated movie of that morning, to have clouds flying around in their movie's skyline was certainly the very last pain in the ass they wished to deal with: I mean - damn it - they weren' t even capable of managing/producing/supervising the 3D environment of a handful of 'airplane' trajectories! Just try and imagine what a horrid headache it would have been to have to animate the cloud's geographical positions/shapes/sizes and timelapse drift - in each and every one of their animation clips !
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby nonhocapito on May 30th, 2011, 1:27 am

Tufa wrote:My view is that all available photos of the burning towers are fabricated, on the grounds that the 9/11 of 2001 was not a sunny day. Or, to put it in another setting, if the day was a clear day we would have had thousands of private 9/11 photos all over the net, with several hundreds "facebook" sites having massive amounts of these pictures.


Yet we should define what a "cloudy day" means.

If you say "so cloudy you couldn't see the towers" (and it might be a little too exceptional for a September day in NYC) then we should imagine that there are no real videos of the events because of these powerful clouds all over the city -- which in turn means that if the clouds were part of the plan, they were put there on purpose with some weather machine.

But it gets uselessly complicated. We see that such powerful (artificial) clouds aren't mentioned anywhere. And we explain this with the fact that there was total control over the information about that day, so news about the clouds couldn't slip through.
BUT: isn't this complete control enough to conclude that it was probably useless to create clouds to cover the towers, since any imagery was totally under control anyway?

After all a picture of the towers shrouded by weather clouds would be as revealing as a picture of the towers being demolished by demolition charges. In other words it serves no purpose, and poses several risks, to cover the towers with bad weather -- and let that be the way you prevent unwanted imagery.

If nothing genuine about the day could slip through, then the clouds don't really matter: the weather on 9/11 could be whatever it wanted to be (as long as it didn't rain, probably: which makes me think that this hypothetical weather machine was rather used to clear the day --not to cloud it).
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby Tufa on May 30th, 2011, 8:03 pm

simonshack wrote:Yes, Tufa - I can fully follow this logic.
In fact, as they had to do a pre-fabricated movie of that morning, to have clouds flying around in their movie's skyline was certainly the very last pain in the ass they wished to deal with: I mean - damn it - they weren' t even capable of managing/producing/supervising the 3D environment of a handful of 'airplane' trajectories!


This I had not thought about! If you have various sized "clouds" they can be used as a time-scale, and must match various perspectives. Ohh!! what a night-mare!

I do mean the following, which I think is one plausible way of keeping tripod-Joe and long-lens-Bill out of sight:

It is a grey and misty day. You add 10 or so white-smoke generators, to cover most of the lower Manhattan. You don't tell the local N.Y. citizen what is up, by cutting the TV, or sending a different show for local N.Y., and possibly arranging a disconnection in the phone lines on a state level. So, people living in New Jersey come in late in the story. There could be smoke generators in the towers, producing a massive amount of black smoke. You don't need a hole (in the Tower) for any plane! Then you cover the hole thing in the thickest smoke you ever seen. This can go for 15 minutes, or so. Time after 10am but before 10.30 am. You now just blow the basement, and both towers simultaneously bottom-up style. There is a no-fly zone in effect. Cover the site with a more reasonable level of white smoke.

So, you don't know any; no one tell you in time; you cannot see any, and it is reasonably consistent with the "official" story and time-scale. How if we find Bill or Joe, and see if we can get a copy of a grey square? And a little house or window at the bottom?
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby nonhocapito on May 30th, 2011, 9:31 pm

Tufa wrote:I do mean the following, which I think is one plausible way of keeping tripod-Joe and long-lens-Bill out of sight


Tufa if you can please answer to my objections above too? Don't you think that a picture of the towers shrouded in clouds would have been a problem if the TV showed a clear day? And if there is no picture of the clouds because all images were under control, then why the need to shroud the towers in the first place?
Me, I rather think the day was perfectly clear. No risk of rain (something too objective, rain) and no risk of contradictions between story and the reality people would remember. Then, evacuation, smoke generators, and image control took care of the rest.
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby simonshack on May 30th, 2011, 10:12 pm

nonhocapito wrote:
Tufa wrote: Don't you think that a picture of the towers shrouded in clouds would have been a problem if the TV showed a clear day?


Nonho,

Here's what the LIVE TV images showed on 9/11:

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage<<<...Hey, this last one looks like a clear day ! :lol:


Please know that this following pre-9/11 picture that I found on a credible private website had a caption under it, to this tune:
"I shot this picture while visiting New York on a rainy day".
Image
Well, here's a shot from the FOX 9/11 archives:
Image

The FOX shot looks very much like a dull, overcast day. Now - I don't disagree with either you or Tufa. My point is, the perps couldn't care less about what sort of weather there would be on 9/11. Having said that - just a thought now: was that mysterious ERIN hurricane perhaps a sophisticated way of creating a low pressure area and 'suck' any clouds away from Manhattan? Duh...I don't know, just some wild speculation... ;)
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby reel.deal on May 30th, 2011, 11:23 pm

Tufa, i wanna say a great big thankyou to you. I honestly thought, watching the "live"
9/11 coverage in the UK that day, that the twin-towers "smoked" way too slowly.
Your video, "FULL SPEED 9/11" - reaffirmed that the 33rpm "footage" was bullshit.
I think you nailed it. The world was easily sold the 9/11 CGI-LIE on a bunch
of SLOW-MOTION. I truly wanna say thanks for your "real-speed" video,
for showing how it really should have looked...
if it was actually "for real"...
=)
Last edited by reel.deal on May 31st, 2011, 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby nonhocapito on May 30th, 2011, 11:39 pm

simonshack wrote:The FOX shot looks very much like a dull, overcast day. Now - I don't disagree with either you or Tufa. My point is, the perps couldn't care less about what sort of weather there would be on 9/11. Having said that - just a thought now: was that mysterious ERIN hurricane perhaps a sophisticated way of creating a low pressure area and 'suck' any clouds away from Manhattan? Duh...I don't know, just some wild speculation... ;)


Well apparently you agree with what I wrote in my first answer to Tufa above! :P
I quote myself: "the weather on 9/11 could be whatever it wanted to be".
If there was control of the imagery, there was no need to shroud the day in clouds -- rather to clear it. I agree with the suggestion about the hurricane, which is a detail about 9/11 that i always considered potentially very enlightening (if the hurricane path is real info and not disinfo, of course, and if weather machines capable of such transformations are real, of course).

As to the TV showing a clear day or a hazy day, I know how the TV images are obviously not representing any real day or any real weather. All I meant was that they showed a clear day enough for the towers to be perfectly visible.
Besides, for clouds to get so low and so dense to actually shroud the towers you would need a very exceptional kind of weather, especially for September...
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby Tufa on May 31st, 2011, 4:02 am

(... completely off-topic, here)
nonhocapito wrote:Yet we should define what a "cloudy day" means.

A clear day I take as blue sky and 10km good photo distance. My thought is that it was grey, but not dark rain-cloud style. But, around the Towers there is much smoke, and you can't see any. My thought is that (A) there are photos (B) there are not interesting and of low quality, very grey and you cannot see anything at all on them (C) the owner of the photo don't know any of this forum, and that we need the photos (D) shame and guilt that not a better photo was obtained, he hide them from his friends.

nonhocapito wrote:If you say "so cloudy you couldn't see the towers" (and it might be a little too exceptional for a September day in NYC) then we should imagine that there are no real videos of the events because of these powerful clouds all over the city -- which in turn means that if the clouds were part of the plan, they were put there on purpose with some weather machine.


There where stories told also about other "attacks", unspecified where, and no one had a concise view of the situation, so you could had done anything and it would not look strange. Smoke is very cheap. The black kind you do with burning oil, any one of you can more or less cover your entire city, if you put in a bit of effort in it.

nonhocapito wrote:But it gets uselessly complicated. We see that such powerful (artificial) clouds aren't mentioned anywhere. And we explain this with the fact that there was total control over the information about that day, so news about the clouds couldn't slip through.


A problem with "image control" is that some one might complain about it. I find this no-image situation extremely strange and difficult to explain. Kindly put some thinking into this.

nonhocapito wrote:After all a picture of the towers shrouded by weather clouds would be as revealing as a picture of the towers being demolished by demolition charges.


No, I don't think so. My thought is that you would think that it is the "dust" from the demolition from the South Tower. As an Exercise I work with a demolition scenario that is rather extremely different compared to the TV version. If new facts are found, this will limit the space of alternatives. I TRY TO EXPLAIN MY CURRENT THOUGHT ON THIS. MY THINKING IS LIKELY NOT CORRECT.
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby warriorhun on May 31st, 2011, 5:32 pm

Dear All,

About the weather and clouds and visibility on 9/11 and WTC:

Please watch this video from 1990 (taken on a sunny day :P ). On youtube, this video is no longer available, for some reason or other...
http://indavideo.hu/video/Depeche_Mode- ... TC_tribute

Any thoughts triggered by the video?
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby SmokingGunII on June 2nd, 2011, 10:25 pm

nonhocapito wrote:
simonshack wrote:The FOX shot looks very much like a dull, overcast day. Now - I don't disagree with either you or Tufa. My point is, the perps couldn't care less about what sort of weather there would be on 9/11. Having said that - just a thought now: was that mysterious ERIN hurricane perhaps a sophisticated way of creating a low pressure area and 'suck' any clouds away from Manhattan? Duh...I don't know, just some wild speculation... ;)


Well apparently you agree with what I wrote in my first answer to Tufa above! :P
I quote myself: "the weather on 9/11 could be whatever it wanted to be".
If there was control of the imagery, there was no need to shroud the day in clouds -- rather to clear it. I agree with the suggestion about the hurricane, which is a detail about 9/11 that i always considered potentially very enlightening (if the hurricane path is real info and not disinfo, of course, and if weather machines capable of such transformations are real, of course).

As to the TV showing a clear day or a hazy day, I know how the TV images are obviously not representing any real day or any real weather. All I meant was that they showed a clear day enough for the towers to be perfectly visible.
Besides, for clouds to get so low and so dense to actually shroud the towers you would need a very exceptional kind of weather, especially for September...



I disagree, Nonho. The weather had to be as people would witness. If there were clear blue skies and the footage showed a rainy day, then everyone in NY would be suspicious. The fact that the MSM showed a variety of colours doesn't deflect from the fact that the sky was predominantly cloudless.

In fact, I believe blue sky was a nessecity to enable the masking of backgrounds.
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby nonhocapito on June 2nd, 2011, 10:34 pm

SmokingGunII wrote:
nonhocapito wrote:
simonshack wrote:The FOX shot looks very much like a dull, overcast day. Now - I don't disagree with either you or Tufa. My point is, the perps couldn't care less about what sort of weather there would be on 9/11. Having said that - just a thought now: was that mysterious ERIN hurricane perhaps a sophisticated way of creating a low pressure area and 'suck' any clouds away from Manhattan? Duh...I don't know, just some wild speculation... ;)


Well apparently you agree with what I wrote in my first answer to Tufa above! :P
I quote myself: "the weather on 9/11 could be whatever it wanted to be".
If there was control of the imagery, there was no need to shroud the day in clouds -- rather to clear it. I agree with the suggestion about the hurricane, which is a detail about 9/11 that i always considered potentially very enlightening (if the hurricane path is real info and not disinfo, of course, and if weather machines capable of such transformations are real, of course).

As to the TV showing a clear day or a hazy day, I know how the TV images are obviously not representing any real day or any real weather. All I meant was that they showed a clear day enough for the towers to be perfectly visible.
Besides, for clouds to get so low and so dense to actually shroud the towers you would need a very exceptional kind of weather, especially for September...



I disagree, Nonho. The weather had to be as people would witness. If there were clear blue skies and the footage showed a rainy day, then everyone in NY would be suspicious. The fact that the MSM showed a variety of colours doesn't deflect from the fact that the sky was predominantly cloudless.

In fact, I believe blue sky was a nessecity to enable the masking of backgrounds.


No but I agree with you. As I said, they probably needed the day to be rather clear, although I don't think their concern was what people would witness.
In fact I wanted to emphasize the fact that they had control over the images and the witnesses: which means they had little need to worry about what the weather exactly was -- as long as it didn't rain: rain is too objective, unlike one or two clouds or some haze.
But you're right: if weather machines exist (and all evidence point to yes), they were probably used to have a spotless clear blue sky.
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Re: The Empty Towers

Postby warriorhun on June 3rd, 2011, 8:17 pm

Dear All,

About the weather on 9/11.
I put aside the HAARP theories, but if it existed back then, whatever weather could have been there what the perps wanted, no? I do not really believe in the HAARP, but... I have to admit really crazy weather we have here now in Hungary, right now this week, which got me thinking... But still, I rather think it is God who decides on rain or sunshine and not some guy in Pentagon. Maybe the HAARP thing is a bluff: if it would be believed, whole continents could be subjugated with the threat...
Back to the topic at hand: weather conditions at the towers and their impact on visibility. I am no meterologist, but common sense says the conditions are different on ground and on high in the air, and the WTC buildings were fucking high. Clouds, winds, may very well be present on that height, which can distort perception from the ground, even on a sunny day, no?
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