Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby patrix on October 27th, 2017, 5:14 pm

I try to be as courteous as possible


I know from first hand experience that you do Simon. I remember when we had our first talk and I was at the same place as Barbie regarding satellites (presuming she's genuine which can be doubted from the story above). You graciously said something along "well they might exist but it doesn't seem like it" although you well knew you had spent a great deal more time (a couple of years or so) than I looking into this before you came to the conclusion they must be fake.
Last edited by patrix on October 27th, 2017, 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby brianv on October 27th, 2017, 8:05 pm

[st]Nice Camera. The Nikon P900, you can almost not see Neil's Armstrong's footprint on the Lunar Surface with them and seems to be a favourite among the FE crowd. I don't know what it's being pointed at, but it has been gimped anyway.

What EXIF Data actually looks like if anyone's interested http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?i ... 5a71.45443

Click the "Metadata" option![/st]

Switch off your audio and skip to the end about 17: 25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJzIQf3nR9g

Does it look familiar?

And it looks like FE Central and their opposites over there!

Didn't we have an Andrew Johnson before?
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby NotRappaport on October 27th, 2017, 10:51 pm

brianv » October 27th, 2017, 12:05 pm wrote: I don't know what it's being pointed at, but it has been gimped anyway.

What EXIF Data actually looks like if anyone's interested http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?i ... 5a71.45443

Click the "Metadata" option!

Simon said he enlarged the picture to show the thing being photographed, and the exif confirms the modification was shortly before it was posted here.

Software GIMP 2.6.0
Modify Date 2017:10:27 12:05:34

The rest of the exif data - Coolpix P900 camera set to 1/1000 second exposure, 2000mm focal length in 35mm format + 1.2x digital zoom, ISO 800, f6.5, 1 degree field of view - all looks legitimate. Unless the un-enlarged picture also shows GIMP modification in the exif data.

Whether the "ISS" is a light, some kind of object, or a projection, it can definitely be photographed. I think that's a much less contestable issue from the fact that the "onboard" video fakery by various space agencies proves there is no one actually inside the "thing".
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby brianv on October 27th, 2017, 10:55 pm

NotRappaport » October 27th, 2017, 10:51 pm wrote:
brianv » October 27th, 2017, 12:05 pm wrote: I don't know what it's being pointed at, but it has been gimped anyway.

What EXIF Data actually looks like if anyone's interested http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?i ... 5a71.45443

Click the "Metadata" option!

Simon said he enlarged the picture to show the thing being photographed, and the exif confirms the modification was shortly before it was posted here.

Software GIMP 2.6.0
Modify Date 2017:10:27 12:05:34

The rest of the exif data - Coolpix P900 camera set to 1/1000 second exposure, 2000mm focal length in 35mm format + 1.2x digital zoom, ISO 800, f6.5, 1 degree field of view - all looks legitimate. Unless the un-enlarged picture also shows GIMP modification in the exif data.

Whether the "ISS" is a light, some kind of object, or a projection, it can definitely be photographed. I think that's a much less contestable issue from the fact that the "onboard" video fakery by various space agencies proves there is no one actually inside the "thing".


Did you look at the youtube video? Looks like the same image. I did strike that previous comment but it didn't work.

I downloaded the video and took a snap, just for comparison.

Image and enlarged. Image

it can definitely be photographed.


What is "it"? If you are referring to ISIS in the Sky, please do it and post your footage or images here or else ...
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby NotRappaport on October 28th, 2017, 6:32 pm

brianv » October 27th, 2017, 2:55 pm wrote:I downloaded the video and took a snap, just for comparison.

Image and enlarged. Image

I don't see that as the exact same image posted by Simon. Are you saying you think either of the pictures he posted are stills from that video?

brianv » October 27th, 2017, 2:55 pm wrote:
it can definitely be photographed.


What is "it"? If you are referring to ISIS in the Sky, please do it and post your footage or images here or else ...

You have just seen a picture of it posted by Simon and have the metadata to show it was taken with a camera using settings capable of producing such a picture. There are many, many such pictures taken all the time by amateurs and posted in astronomy forums. Personally, I don't waste my time (or money on a $600 camera with 2000mm zoom) trying to follow the piece of junk sideshow.

As far as what is seen, I lean towards the idea that there is an actual "object" up there at the very edge of the outer atmosphere where there is still enough atmospheric pressure for rockets to be able to generate some thrust. The object is more or less the same dimensions we are told it is, but certainly is not pressurized nor does it contain people. The reason I say there is actually something up there is that there are just too many opportunities to see it, on a continuing basis, and the sightings all fit within the specific path they claim the thing follows.

http://www.heavens-above.com/
http://transit-finder.com/

HOWEVER, the fact that it is maintained at such a troublesome altitude is the most damning evidence against it being a "spaceship" full of people. From a logistic standpoint, it would be infinitely more sensible to place the thing at a much higher altitude (why not 500 or 600 km?) where there should be close to zero atmospheric drag, drastically reducing the need for all those reboosts. Ah, but since rocketry cannot function in a vacuum, they really are stuck keeping it at an altitude from which it constantly descends and requires continuous reboosts to create the illusion that it is in "orbit".

Looking at a graph purporting to show the ISS altitude over time, we can see that, far from being in a "stable orbit", it constantly loses altitude and requires continuous boosting and major periodic altitude adjustments:
Image
(notice the altitude line is always jagged even in between the major periodic boosts)

A more current graph - notice how it dropped like a stone in January 2017!
Image
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby brianv on October 29th, 2017, 12:37 am

Yes transit finder is an app. Great! Graphs don't mean squat!

There are many, many such pictures taken all the time by amateurs and posted in astronomy forums.


Can you be at least bothered to post some links?
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby NotRappaport on October 29th, 2017, 7:19 am

brianv » October 28th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:Yes transit finder is an app. Great!

Yes, and it does something - it provides data about when and where upcoming "ISS" transits of the Sun and Moon can be seen. Just pointing out that the ISS thing has a very predictable visibility schedule.

The main problem with getting a good look at the "ISS" is twofold: it has a very small angular diameter (less than 1 arcminute) and it is moving fast. It has about the same apparent size as Saturn, which looks no different from a bright star to the naked eye (you need some good magnification to be able to see it's rings). The higher the magnification, the narrower the field of view; and the narrower the field of view the more difficult it is to keep a moving object in frame. That said, it's not particularly difficult to get a fuzzy picture if you have good magnification and fast exposure, or a picture that shows nothing but a streak of light if you don't.

brianv » October 28th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:Graphs don't mean squat!

The graph represents data points regarding average altitude. It could be all fake, but if it were fake, why not make it look like the thing was in a stable orbit? Its interesting because it shows near constant small boosts punctuated by large boosts every couple of weeks. Far from being "in orbit", the thing actually would fall straight to the ground without the endless fuel expenditure to keep it aloft. The reason given for this effect is "atmospheric drag" - which means it is not in the vacuum of space and is not in orbit. All those boosts upward means no real "microgravity" on the thing, which would be a deathtrap anyway - that's why its unoccupied.

brianv » October 28th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:
There are many, many such pictures taken all the time by amateurs and posted in astronomy forums.


Can you be at least bothered to post some links?

The astronomy forum I look at every now and then is cloudynights.com, but I'm not about to search through it for ISS images. I'm still not clear on the reason for dismissing the "Barbie" one a few posts up, so it would be pointless to find other pics that probably don't even have xcif data (most people convert their images to PNG format, which does not have xcif).

If you don't mind my asking, what do you think the ISS in the sky is? Not the phony stuff showing the inside and astronauts, but the actual "thing" up in the sky that can be seen from the ground.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby brianv on October 29th, 2017, 3:04 pm

NotRappaport » October 29th, 2017, 7:19 am wrote:
brianv » October 28th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:Yes transit finder is an app. Great!

Yes, and it does something - it provides data about when and where upcoming "ISS" transits of the Sun and Moon can be seen. Just pointing out that the ISS thing has a very predictable visibility schedule.

The main problem with getting a good look at the "ISS" is twofold: it has a very small angular diameter (less than 1 arcminute) and it is moving fast. It has about the same apparent size as Saturn, which looks no different from a bright star to the naked eye (you need some good magnification to be able to see it's rings). The higher the magnification, the narrower the field of view; and the narrower the field of view the more difficult it is to keep a moving object in frame. That said, it's not particularly difficult to get a fuzzy picture if you have good magnification and fast exposure, or a picture that shows nothing but a streak of light if you don't.

brianv » October 28th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:Graphs don't mean squat!

The graph represents data points regarding average altitude. It could be all fake, but if it were fake, why not make it look like the thing was in a stable orbit? Its interesting because it shows near constant small boosts punctuated by large boosts every couple of weeks. Far from being "in orbit", the thing actually would fall straight to the ground without the endless fuel expenditure to keep it aloft. The reason given for this effect is "atmospheric drag" - which means it is not in the vacuum of space and is not in orbit. All those boosts upward means no real "microgravity" on the thing, which would be a deathtrap anyway - that's why its unoccupied.

brianv » October 28th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:
There are many, many such pictures taken all the time by amateurs and posted in astronomy forums.


Can you be at least bothered to post some links?

The astronomy forum I look at every now and then is cloudynights.com, but I'm not about to search through it for ISS images. I'm still not clear on the reason for dismissing the "Barbie" one a few posts up, so it would be pointless to find other pics that probably don't even have xcif data (most people convert their images to PNG format, which does not have xcif).

If you don't mind my asking, what do you think the ISS in the sky is? Not the phony stuff showing the inside and astronauts, but the actual "thing" up in the sky that can be seen from the ground.



but I'm not about to search through it for ISS images


Yup just as I reckoned : you can't be arsed (or perhaps you already know you won't find any). We'll have to take your word about the existence of real ISS photographs then.

What actual thing that can be seen from the ground?

Well I spent last night searching for images of the ISS, and I'm not at all impressed. Mind you not that I give a "rodents" one way or the other about spacefanboyism. From what I can gather, anyone who expresses doubt about the existence of the ISS is immediately labeled a "conspiritard" or "flat-earther". Again I couldn't care less if the world was dildo shaped, useless information. Has no bearing on my life.
Watson: "Holmes did you know the Earth was round"? Holmes: Useless information, I shall promptly proceed to forget it.


I'll post a screenie from one of the videos I downloaded!

Image

And for the Record:

Transit-finder is owned by a Polish "Astronomer" and writer (who looks as fake as the ISS) allegedy named "Marek Substyk" and who runs the "Polish Astronomy" forum here:

http://forum.ptma.pl/index.php?sid=2109 ... 5e86210638

Lots of talk about the App - NO photos of the ISS :rolleyes:
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby NotRappaport on October 29th, 2017, 9:45 pm

brianv » October 29th, 2017, 7:04 am wrote:
but I'm not about to search through it for ISS images


Yup just as I reckoned : you can't be arsed (or perhaps you already know you won't find any).

No, I'm just not going to waste my time doing it for you because you are behaving rudely and have already shown that you will outright reject evidence (ie, the "Barbie" picture posted by Simon) without reason.

That you think there are no ISS images to be found on cloudynights.com shows that you won't even look.
GOOGLE: ISS DSLR site:cloudynights.com returns over 3,000 results. That's a good starting point to finding threads that contain ISS images in them. They're not in every thread as some are just discussion about how to photograph it.

brianv » October 29th, 2017, 7:04 am wrote:What actual thing that can be seen from the ground?

The thing that ANYONE can see if they look at the times it is visible in their area as Simon himself discovered on Apr 09, 2013 and subsequently posted in this very thread:
simonshack » April 12th, 2013, 3:20 pm wrote:I SAW IT ! ISS IT A BIRD? ISS IT A PLANE?


Allright, folks. So after three successive alerts from NASA's "Spot the Station" e-mail service, last Tuesday I finally got to see the thing flying over my head - from horizon to horizon. I am now a firsthand eyewitness to what NASA calls the "ISS"!


And later asks the cogent question:
simonshack » April 1st, 2014, 8:10 am wrote:WHAT IS THIS "ISS" WE CAN SEE FLYING ABOVE US?


brianv, you simply need to avail yourself of the tools that alert you to when and where the "ISS" will be visible from your location and then actually LOOK in order to know there really is something "up there" purporting to be the "ISS" and that it can be seen and even photographed. Attaining this level of knowledge is not at all difficult: http://www.heavens-above.com/
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby brianv on October 29th, 2017, 10:33 pm

I wasn't around for several months so a few things might have escaped me, and like I said I have no particular interest in spaceman fantasies.

Have you seen the ISS Space Station from the ground with your own eyes or through a lens? Maybe I should answer that : "No, I'm just not going to waste my time doing it for you because you are behaving rudely and have already shown that blah blah blah".
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby NotRappaport on October 29th, 2017, 11:06 pm

brianv » October 29th, 2017, 2:33 pm wrote:Have you seen the ISS Space Station from the ground with your own eyes or through a lens? Maybe I should answer that : "No, I'm just not going to waste my time doing it for you because you are behaving rudely and have already shown that blah blah blah".

You are still being extraordinarily rude and not contributing anything to this discussion. However I will answer the question that yes, I have seen it once with my eyes (not through a camera/telescope) about a year ago. To the naked eye it looks almost as bright as Venus but too small to see any detail beyond a bright point of light.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby brianv on October 30th, 2017, 12:37 am

NotRappaport » October 29th, 2017, 11:06 pm wrote:
brianv » October 29th, 2017, 2:33 pm wrote:Have you seen the ISS Space Station from the ground with your own eyes or through a lens? Maybe I should answer that : "No, I'm just not going to waste my time doing it for you because you are behaving rudely and have already shown that blah blah blah".

You are still being extraordinarily rude and not contributing anything to this discussion. However I will answer the question that yes, I have seen it once with my eyes (not through a camera/telescope) about a year ago. To the naked eye it looks almost as bright as Venus but too small to see any detail beyond a bright point of light.


You saw a bright point of light? What with a big sign on the side, with "ISS" written clearly on it? How do you know what you saw was the ISS? Does the "point of light" have a uniqueness that makes it readily identifiable as the "ISS"? This bright point of light of yours is supposedly traveling at what speed? 25000 mph or something? Would that not be a streak that you saw? Venus my arse! An ice dust particle colliding with the atmosphere!

Last time some nutters made a religion out of a point of light in the sky. Oh wait, isn't that what you are doing? Trying to make people BELIEVE without evidence? I don't do FAITH or RELIGION, I'm not sorry to say!
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby NotRappaport on October 30th, 2017, 2:03 am

brianv » October 29th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:
NotRappaport » October 29th, 2017, 11:06 pm wrote:
brianv » October 29th, 2017, 2:33 pm wrote:Have you seen the ISS Space Station from the ground with your own eyes or through a lens? Maybe I should answer that : "No, I'm just not going to waste my time doing it for you because you are behaving rudely and have already shown that blah blah blah".

You are still being extraordinarily rude and not contributing anything to this discussion. However I will answer the question that yes, I have seen it once with my eyes (not through a camera/telescope) about a year ago. To the naked eye it looks almost as bright as Venus but too small to see any detail beyond a bright point of light.


You saw a bright point of light? What with a big sign on the side, with "ISS" written clearly on it? How do you know what you saw was the ISS?

Don't be obtuse. I saw a bright point of light moving along the exact path at the exact time heavens-above.com said it would be visible. I wasn't just randomly looking at the sky and thought the first thing I saw was the ISS.

brianv » October 29th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:This bright point of light of yours is supposedly traveling at what speed? 25000 mph or something? Would that not be a streak that you saw?

It wouldn't be a streak unless I was photographing it and using a long exposure. Why don't you stop being ignorant and try to spot it yourself rather than making a jackass of yourself via mindless arguing?
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby brianv on October 30th, 2017, 2:19 am

NotRappaport » October 30th, 2017, 2:03 am wrote:
brianv » October 29th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:
NotRappaport » October 29th, 2017, 11:06 pm wrote:
brianv » October 29th, 2017, 2:33 pm wrote:Have you seen the ISS Space Station from the ground with your own eyes or through a lens? Maybe I should answer that : "No, I'm just not going to waste my time doing it for you because you are behaving rudely and have already shown that blah blah blah".

You are still being extraordinarily rude and not contributing anything to this discussion. However I will answer the question that yes, I have seen it once with my eyes (not through a camera/telescope) about a year ago. To the naked eye it looks almost as bright as Venus but too small to see any detail beyond a bright point of light.


You saw a bright point of light? What with a big sign on the side, with "ISS" written clearly on it? How do you know what you saw was the ISS?

Don't be obtuse. I saw a bright point of light moving along the exact path at the exact time heavens-above.com said it would be visible. I wasn't just randomly looking at the sky and thought the first thing I saw was the ISS.

brianv » October 29th, 2017, 4:37 pm wrote:This bright point of light of yours is supposedly traveling at what speed? 25000 mph or something? Would that not be a streak that you saw?

It wouldn't be a streak unless I was photographing it and using a long exposure. Why don't you stop being ignorant and try to spot it yourself rather than making a jackass of yourself via mindless arguing?


I live in a rural area mostly uncontaminated by "ground light" and lots of sky, I have never seen a satellite or the space station nor anything of the sort. People keep telling me there's shit up there but I don't buy it!

Once again, how fast was your point of light traveling?
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby NotRappaport on October 30th, 2017, 4:24 am

brianv » October 29th, 2017, 6:19 pm wrote:I live in a rural area mostly uncontaminated by "ground light" and lots of sky, I have never seen a satellite or the space station nor anything of the sort. People keep telling me there's shit up there but I don't buy it!

Staring at the sky for a few minutes at random times in random directions is not the way to spot the ISS. You have to know exactly where and when to look for it and that's what sites like heavens-above.com will tell you.

brianv » October 29th, 2017, 6:19 pm wrote:Once again, how fast was your point of light traveling?

According to the official numbers about 27,580 km/h, which is 7.66 km/s. If you want to visualize what that looks like you have to take into account it's distance from you. When overhead it's distance is ~405km, so:
ARCTAN(7.66/405) = 1.08°
It moves at a rate of about 1° per second across your field of view when it is directly overhead (to help put that distance into perspective, the full moon's angular diameter is about 0.5°). When its 10° above the horizon (distance ~1450 km) it will move at a maximum rate of ~0.3° per second if it's trajectory is parallel to the horizon and significantly less than that if the trajectory is perpendicular.
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