OSLO and UTØYA, 7/22 2011

[lauring]

Anyway, if ABB didn't get the material for his bomb from Poland, from where did he get it?.

From "Felleskjøpet".

http://nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7735393

[lauring]

So, of course they declare their sim 'bomber-shooter' officially bonkers: problem solved!
Being locked away in a loony bin removes any need for explanations, 'appeals', visitor attempts, interviews etc.
How perfectly convenient, eh

Nope. The trial will take place as scheduled in April.

[Makkonen]

"Paranoid schizophrenia" sounds like the cheesiest possible movie script - like pseudo-analysis. Surely nobody is taking this seriously? If anything, people "generally" branded as "paranoid schizophrenics" don't function very well or efficiently on a day-to-day basis and aren't a threat to everyday/anonymous people. So, basically, the complete opposite of Breivik's "official" analysis!

I somehow find it morbidly hilarious that the whole ABB fiasco has pretty much dragged the crediblity of psychology/psychiatry into the muds, whether one is aware of media-led hoaxery/fakery or not. Hopefully, with time, the former.

[brianv]

So, of course they declare their sim 'bomber-shooter' officially bonkers: problem solved!
Being locked away in a loony bin removes any need for explanations, 'appeals', visitor attempts, interviews etc.
How perfectly convenient, eh

Nope. The trial will take place as scheduled in April.

April 1st?

For there to be a trial they will need a flesh and blood man not a photoshop created cartoon character.

[Maat]

So, of course they declare their sim 'bomber-shooter' officially bonkers: problem solved!
Being locked away in a loony bin removes any need for explanations, 'appeals', visitor attempts, interviews etc.
How perfectly convenient, eh

Nope. The trial will take place as scheduled in April.

Unless you're one of the Norway Psy-Op script writers, what part of the following directive did you not understand?

Lauring, please introduce yourself on the Required topic now if you wish to continue posting here.

[brianv]

I predict a riot!

[oslo29112011]

Hi guys, I'll be happy to provide some answers for you. Not that I believe that everything is as it appears within society and politics, and I support your right to analyze and understand the world in your way. But we can still clear some of the more factual errors. And I'll be happy to provide some answers for you.

But we are told he ordered 1000 kgs of fertiliser (amonianatriumoxide???) from Poland to build a bomb and that he managed that by adding 200 litres diesel oil. OK, OK! All at a lonely farm 5 hrs north of Oslo. And then he produced a detonator so this 1000 kgs bomb could detonate. Fantastic.Then he reented a VW minibus to transport the bomb to Oslo. We are told. You believe it?
Real stupid question : How did ABB all alone manage to load this 1 000 kgs bomb into the rented minibus? Using a crane? Pushing it?

He lived at a farm, was registered as a farmer, and could as such legally order several tons of fertilizer from http://www.felleskjopet.no/Om-oss/Sider ... brief.aspx
The order from Poland was for the fuse. Very small amount.
He long term rented a VW Crafter from Avis.
How he managed to create the bomb, and load the car, he discusses himself in his "manifesto".
The distance he drove was according to google-maps about 2Hours 20 Minutes. (Rena, Norway to Oslo, Norway)

Anyway. You were on the isle, not Iceland, and ABB appeared with his little GLOCK arm and starting shooting, killing people in front of you. About 70 were killed and another 60 just hurt!
Question (stupid again): Do you really think one crazy guy like ABB with a little GLOCK can hit 130+ people (most of which do not really know each other) in less than one hour and making telephone calls at the same time???? Sorry. The isle is pretty rocky with steep shores and it is not easy to move around but easy to hide.
Sondre, why didn't you jump on ABB? You would be a hero! And why jump on SC forum?

He used more than a glock, he used a rifle as well. (a Ruger Mini).
The vegetation on the island is not that dense. According to an acquaintance of mine that was on the island when it happened, and my parents which actually met each other on one of these camps on utøya in the 70's, hiding places are scarce.

There are several ways Simon or one or more of you could move forward to get to the bottom of this.

a/Visit Oslo! I would gladly offer my services as a guide, but since I'm not exactly a trusted member of this forum, I'd rather just suggest you visit on your own.
Ask your way around town. Ask anyone. Ask them about their experiences on the 22nd, ask people in bars. Ask them if they knew anyone affected.

b/Visit the "memorial" by the busstop by utøya. Yes it's a busstop, so it's possible to take a buss there for real.
It would be wrong of me to suggest you "borrow" a boat and visit the island itself.

c/Best bit: attend the court case! Yes you heard me correctly. It is open to the public. On his last visit in court, people who had been standing in line for as little as 2 hours got in.
You can see it for yourself! In real life! Details: http://www.domstol.no/en/Enkelt-domstol ... ict-Court/

d/I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Ryanair offers super-low fares to Oslo from all over europe. So does Norwegian.com . SAS is often a bit more expensive, British airways, Air France, Alitalia, CSA etc. has routes from their respective countries.

[upstream]

a/Visit Oslo! I would gladly offer my services as a guide, but since I'm not exactly a trusted member of this forum, I'd rather just suggest you visit on your own.
Ask your way around town. Ask anyone. Ask them about their experiences on the 22nd, ask people in bars. Ask them if they knew anyone affected.

b/Visit the "memorial" by the busstop by utøya. Yes it's a busstop, so it's possible to take a buss there for real.
It would be wrong of me to suggest you "borrow" a boat and visit the island itself.

c/Best bit: attend the court case! Yes you heard me correctly. It is open to the public. On his last visit in court, people who had been standing in line for as little as 2 hours got in.
You can see it for yourself! In real life! Details: http://www.domstol.no/en/Enkelt-domstol ... ict-Court/

d/I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Ryanair offers super-low fares to Oslo from all over europe. So does Norwegian.com . SAS is often a bit more expensive, British airways, Air France, Alitalia, CSA etc. has routes from their respective countries.

That is so generous of you to offer your services to Simon as a guide. Such a time consuming gesture, how kind of you.

Since you have the time to provide those type of services, perhaps you also have the time to take a video camera and "ask your way around town. Ask anyone. Ask them about their experiences on the 22nd, ask people in bars. Ask them if they knew anyone affected."

This is probably the most helpful way you can assist us. Is it possible for you to do this?

[brianv]

Hi guys, I'll be happy to provide some answers for you. Not that I believe that everything is as it appears within society and politics, and I support your right to analyze and understand the world in your way. But we can still clear some of the more factual errors. And I'll be happy to provide some answers for you.

But we are told he ordered 1000 kgs of fertiliser (amonianatriumoxide???) from Poland to build a bomb and that he managed that by adding 200 litres diesel oil. OK, OK! All at a lonely farm 5 hrs north of Oslo. And then he produced a detonator so this 1000 kgs bomb could detonate. Fantastic.Then he reented a VW minibus to transport the bomb to Oslo. We are told. You believe it?
Real stupid question : How did ABB all alone manage to load this 1 000 kgs bomb into the rented minibus? Using a crane? Pushing it?

He lived at a farm, was registered as a farmer, and could as such legally order several tons of fertilizer from http://www.felleskjopet.no/Om-oss/Sider ... brief.aspx
The order from Poland was for the fuse. Very small amount.
He long term rented a VW Crafter from Avis.
How he managed to create the bomb, and load the car, he discusses himself in his "manifesto".
The distance he drove was according to google-maps about 2Hours 20 Minutes. (Rena, Norway to Oslo, Norway)

Anyway. You were on the isle, not Iceland, and ABB appeared with his little GLOCK arm and starting shooting, killing people in front of you. About 70 were killed and another 60 just hurt!
Question (stupid again): Do you really think one crazy guy like ABB with a little GLOCK can hit 130+ people (most of which do not really know each other) in less than one hour and making telephone calls at the same time???? Sorry. The isle is pretty rocky with steep shores and it is not easy to move around but easy to hide.
Sondre, why didn't you jump on ABB? You would be a hero! And why jump on SC forum?

He used more than a glock, he used a rifle as well. (a Ruger Mini).
The vegetation on the island is not that dense. According to an acquaintance of mine that was on the island when it happened, and my parents which actually met each other on one of these camps on utøya in the 70's, hiding places are scarce.

There are several ways Simon or one or more of you could move forward to get to the bottom of this.

a/Visit Oslo! I would gladly offer my services as a guide, but since I'm not exactly a trusted member of this forum, I'd rather just suggest you visit on your own.
Ask your way around town. Ask anyone. Ask them about their experiences on the 22nd, ask people in bars. Ask them if they knew anyone affected.

b/Visit the "memorial" by the busstop by utøya. Yes it's a busstop, so it's possible to take a buss there for real.
It would be wrong of me to suggest you "borrow" a boat and visit the island itself.

c/Best bit: attend the court case! Yes you heard me correctly. It is open to the public. On his last visit in court, people who had been standing in line for as little as 2 hours got in.
You can see it for yourself! In real life! Details: http://www.domstol.no/en/Enkelt-domstol ... ict-Court/

d/I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Ryanair offers super-low fares to Oslo from all over europe. So does Norwegian.com . SAS is often a bit more expensive, British airways, Air France, Alitalia, CSA etc. has routes from their respective countries.

"HE" is a cartoon created by the media. "HE", therefore, neither was a farmer nor used a Glock or a Ruger nor hired a car nor bought Nitrogen rich fertilizer from Poland nor bought his swastika badge from India.

"HE" will not be tried in an open court! Stop deluding yourself!

[oslo29112011]

Hi, Upstream.

I only see one problem with that approach.
No way you guys will accept video as evidence. It'll just be another bunch of psy-ops.

Plus, seing a new place in person, talking to real people in real-life, ending the night with a nice bar to bar plus maybe making a few new friends is much more fun, even when it might challenge your world view a bit, don't you think?

I'll repeat my guide offer, but I'm afraid this would be seen as a hostile attempt at manipulation. Maybe then much better to be "under cover" and wander around randomly asking random people. I think you'll be surprised at how quickly you will find people with real stories to tell.

I'll gladly offer tips on places where you can likely meet journalists, photographers, politically active people which might have a lot to tell. Or simply a place to catch a great concert.

Brianv, I understand this is how you see this situation. From my point of view it looks differently, and yes he will be tried in an open court. The last hearing was an open court hearing, and large part of the audience was real civilian visitors. They where even surprised at how lax the security was.

[brianv]

^ Were any of the alleged parents or brothers or sisters or aunts or uncles or cousins or friends in attendance at the court?

Was there a riot?

[oslo29112011]

Brian,

There was not reported any riots.
There was some family of deceased and survivors attending.
Since they attended as any other member of the public, there where no registration of the exact number.

[upstream]

Hi, Upstream.

I only see one problem with that approach.
No way you guys will accept video as evidence. It'll just be another bunch of psy-ops.

You or we can't judge that unless you actually provide a video. Why do you say "NO WAY"?

Just a video of you just asking some questions to people on the street. Nothing to do with "another bunch of psy-ops". Not a big deal. Just as a show of good faith. Is that not fair? Perhaps Simon cannot make it to Norway, this would be the next best thing. Do you truly want to help?

[brianv]

Brian,

There was not reported any riots.
There was some family of deceased and survivors attending.
Since they attended as any other member of the public, there where no registration of the exact number.

In other words there was nobody in the court!

There was a young guy killed by a single blow in a street fight here last year! There was a riot inside and outside the court when the accused was brought from jail to attend a hearing! The hearing was called off and put back to a later date!

[oslo29112011]

upstream,

there is so much video on this event, which i firmly believe to be real footage, that you guys has denoted as being fake, I honestly don't believe a video made by me would be treated any differently. Nothing beats seeing things and talking to real people in real life. Imho it even beats the internet. Travel in europe is now so cheap and so easy, that if the existence of this event is in doubt that is a really small price to pay to get some info. And might be fun. Doesn't need to be Simon, I'm sure you guys have other members you also agree to trust.

brianv,
I would think most murder cases or even large war criminal cases with thousands of affected are open, but, without riots.
You could see for yourself, welcome to Oslo!