American Airlines Flight 587, November 12, 2001

Anything on the news and elsewhere in the media with evidence of digital manipulation, bogus story-lines and propaganda

American Airlines Flight 587, November 12, 2001

Postby ATTC on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:34 pm

American Airlines Flight 587, an Airbus A300, crashed into the Belle Harbor neighborhood of Queens; a borough of New York City in New York, shortly after takeoff from John F. Kennedy International Airport on November 12, 2001. This is the second deadliest U.S. aviation accident to date, after American Airlines Flight 191.

The accident took place two months after the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center in Manhattan. Several factors, such as the date, aircraft size, airline, and location in New York, raised concerns that the crash was caused by another terrorist attack.[1]


We always ask "where were the real passengers? Aside from theories like a tone of them were fake names, some of them had to be real. Could it be this simple? Were the real ones killed in this accident that perhaps also included fake names?

How much do we know about the victims of Flight 587. Obviously not a lot of coverage about that like there was on 9/11. Maybe there should be more scrutiny.
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Postby fred on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:39 pm

I found it amazing that they instantly concluded that "terrorism" was not to blame (within hours.) How could they be so sure so quickly?
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Postby idschmyd on Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:51 pm

fred 4 Oct 8 2010, 11:39 PM wrote: I found it amazing that they instantly concluded that "terrorism" was not to blame (within hours.) How could they be so sure so quickly?


They didn't do it!!

No, that joke doesn't work. After a ten minute scan about I'm far from sure that 'they' didn't do it...
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Postby brianv on Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:11 pm

I made a very amateurish attempt at looking into to it a few years ago on another forum. There are some images missing of the flight data etc....

http://letsrollforums.com/american-flig ... t4964.html
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Postby idschmyd on Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:35 pm

Image

Image from http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/aa587/photo.shtml

Very blocky and Shoppy, no?
Time and patience disallow a full breakdown, but is that guy doing an Irish jig?

Image
Star Trek Voyager character?

Another savagely blocky and blurry pic, with ghostly image in the hedge.
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Postby simonshack on Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:41 pm

And the History Channnel has the story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5beNH9EKnps

I really have no words. This all sounds so contrived - I cringe when I see these History channel 'reconstructions' - loaded with CGI imagery. But what do I know about Flight 587? Virtually nothing, I'm afraid.

However, it appears that THE ONLY ON-SITE IMAGES OF THE DISASTER the History channel proposes (at 0:12sec in the above documentary and once again at 7:36) last for a few seconds only. Why do they not show MORE footage of the real events on the ground?


And here's more docu material about Flight 587:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMG0Eitq-3Q
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby guivre on Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:51 am

One of the big Q's about that crash was how the passenger list looked like a 'Dominican telephone book.' Probably quite a lot of non-passengers in there.


Official list
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Postby idschmyd on Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:22 am

After an hour or three browsing, finally find a vic pic. On a more respectful note, not posting the image directly just in case. Note the familiar and peculiar practise of taking framed portrait to memorial service.

http://www.rockawave.com/news/2005-12-0 ... y/054.html.

No indication of the framed man's name.

Article states Kriendler and Kriendler are handling the compensation cases.

http://www.kreindler.com/ '...has joined forces with some... law firms...on the Gulf Coast to represent the interests of clients... from the B.P. Deepwater Horizon Oil Disaster.'

Why such paucity of victim information? Big case, lots to see lots to do...
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Postby hoi.polloi on Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:39 am

:lol:

I see.

So the "victims of 9/11" that likely didn't exist are being transfered to other disasters because 9/11 failed so miserably to convince?

Let's propose that the "victims of 9/11" were all sent on a rocket to the sun while we're at it.

This Flight 587 should be treated as a separate case from 9/11 and not get any attempts to tie it to 9/11 for no particular reason.

I value far-thinking speculation, but this seems a rather ridiculous way of "vicsim-hugging" here.
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Postby idschmyd on Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:05 pm

hoi.polloi 4 Oct 9 2010, 04:39 AM wrote::lol:

I see.

So the "victims of 9/11" that likely didn't exist are being transfered to other disasters because 9/11 failed so miserably to convince?

Let's propose that the "victims of 9/11" were all sent on a rocket to the sun while we're at it.

This Flight 587 should be treated as a separate case from 9/11 and not get any attempts to tie it to 9/11 for no particular reason.

I value far-thinking speculation, but this seems a rather ridiculous way of "vicsim-hugging" here.


I ain't huggin nuttin, and don't understand the 'rocket' comment.

Links between the 2 cases aren't exhaustive, but include Big Media, New York, aviation disaster, documentaries taking the chance to pump out 9/11 imagery and affirmations, poor imagery flashed by as though it's not meant to be scrutinised, limited number of interviewees in documentary, The History Channel(!), early days conspiracy theories about what witnesses saw ocurring in the sky (but it was a plane, they tell you!), and more. Nothing super-convincing, but at this stage, I rule nothing out.

As Brianv previously found, no flight data exists for 587 out of JFK for the year 2001,

http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarysta ... taDisp.xml

Info exists for all other flights I checked, including UA93 Sept 2000 to Sept 2001 and AA1624 30th Sept to Oct 8th 2009, randomly selected.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFmVUok05E4
At 7:53 Narrator intros footage from ‘amateur cameraman’ . Ensues poor quality, fast cutting clips from multiple positions.
8:05 colour balance change for oddly isolated fire.
8:15 man in cap becomes headless and opaque.
8:31 man at one with tree.
Are all these disjointed and fleeting scenes by the same cameraman? Why close ups of fire burning? “Why do they not show MORE footage of the real events on the ground”, and why not slow it down to give us a good view? Suspect, that’s what it is.

Also accept Brianv's observation of the unlikelihood of a third aviation disaster in NY in a month, and right after 9/11, but did I mention not ruling anything out?

Here's the Wiki shot of the zone, pic courtesy of National Oceanic and Atmospheric Admin.
Image

The case was a sure disaster for modern photgraphy and data transfer. Queens is apparently much populated by services, firefighters and the like. Does this mean there's lots of government contract housing? Does this mean 'they' would have been able to torch an empty government complex?

Case open, or at least ajar, i say.
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Postby idschmyd on Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:20 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFmVUok05E4

At 6:10 we hear from Deputy Fire Chief Pete Hayden, instrumental in production of the 9/11 fictional narrative, working closely with Jo Pfeiffer. 12th Nov was veterans day, public holiday, and Hayden had just popped out to walk the dog: he hears the aircraft overhead making a ‘straining’ noise, and witnesses it break apart and crash. “There are bodies everywhere, all over the streets, in yards, some victims still strapped into the seats.”

Image
Trustworthy testimony?
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Postby simonshack on Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:40 pm

idschmyd 4 Oct 9 2010, 01:05 PM wrote:
Case open, or at least ajar, i say.


It certainly is open, Idschmyd.

I've taken a brief, cursory look at this affair. These are just a few notes I am scribbling down here - not nurturing any particular theory at this time - no worries, folks! Anyhow, so far I have learned that:

This young fellow with the punky hairstyle is, practically, blamed for the 587 disaster:
Image
First Officer Sten P. Molin - age 34 https://www.alliedpilots.org/Public/Gon ... te.asp#587
Edward A. States was the Flight Captain:
Image
(Neither of the two are listed in the SSDI: http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi (please double-check it for yourself)

As the story goes, Mr. Molin apparently yanked the Airbus commands too brusquely while trying to avoid the wake turbulence of a preceding Jumbo, thus causing the vertical stabilizer to neatly snap off from the fuselage. Here's the offending aircraft part fished up from the waters of Jamaica bay - about a mile from the crash site:

Image
I would ask any experts if such a breakage has ever occured in aviation history. Anyone?

A look at the passenger manifest reveals it was an almost exclusively hispanic lot of travellers. Of the 251 passengers, a mere 18 had non-latino/hispanic sounding names. Those 18 passengers are listed below:




NON-Hispanic-sounding passenger names :


DENNIS BLAIR UNITED STATES
GENIMIZ CARTY UNITED STATES
DAVID (CHING)CHEN TAIWAN
MIGUELINA FABRE UNITED STATES
MARRA FILANOVSKY UNITED STATES
ILYA FILANOVSKY UNITED STATES
SYLVIE GRELEAU GREAT BRITAIN
MARION HARTIGAN UNITED STATES
JEAN HEUZE FRANCE
MELVIN LANDSMAN UNITED STATES
ELAINE LANDSMAN UNITED STATES
ASHOT MELIKJANIAN UNITED STATES
ANGEL PARADIS B) UNITED STATES
JEAN PHANORD HAITI
ELEUTERIA REID-HAY UNITED STATES
PO TSENG TAIWAN
ILAN VASERMAN ISRAEL
KATHLEEN WILLIAMS UNITED STATES

http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stor ... 5907&EDATE



I must say that the few, blurry available frames of "amateur video" of the event (at 7:53 in video pointed out by Idschmyd) are most reminiscent of the horrid Camera Planet animations of 9/11 - and that the eyewitness seen in this video at 8:35 is possibly more hilarious than all the 9/11 eyewitnesses put together! :lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFmVUok05E4

That's all for now.
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby idschmyd on Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:34 pm

simonshack 4 Oct 9 2010, 06:40 PM wrote:the eyewitness seen in this video at 8:35 is possibly more hilarious than all the 9/11 eyewitnesses put together! :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFmVUok05E4




Well, 9/11 hits hard in the Witness Hilarity dept, but that guy's a card! Very hard to see exactly what's going on around him, or to know who filmed it. Was it the amateur cameraman mentioned ealier - seems to be the same rubbishy camera.

Just about all pics in this story are familiar quality.

Image

This from the BBC from AP.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1656408.stm

Article titled 'US aircrash victims favoured', which should have made this one a bargain.

The SSDI records are as for 9/11; terrible, laid out by Brianv here: http://letsrollforums.com/american-flig ... t4964.html

Ongoing.
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Postby simonshack on Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:48 am

*

Giuliani gets casualty figure wrong

Here's part 2 of that History Channel documentary :
Flight AA587 (Plane Crash In Queens) - 2/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbSzsXuVQ2E

At 3:05 in this video, Giuliani states :
"As the governor said, there were 255 people and crew members that were listed on the manifest..."

The documentary unfolds in pure 9/11 propaganda style - mixing seemingly "real news reports" with seemingly "candid reconstructions" in a hypnotic manner which blurs any casual viewer's distinction between fact and fiction. But let's leave aside those aspects for now and just point out the following fact:

The Flight587 disaster allegedly claimed 265 fatalities: 251 people + 9 crew members + 5 fatalities on the ground. Giuliani reported in his press conference a flight manifest figure of "255" instead of 260. This little 'mistake' is not as little and innocuous as it may sound: In the months following 9/11, it would seem wildly improbable that American Airlines didn't keep infallible records of the passengers boarding their flights. Not? <_<
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby hoi.polloi on Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:27 am

Not you, idschmyd.

I was referring to ATTC's comment (my bolds)


Were the real ones killed in this accident that perhaps also included fake names?
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