American Airlines Flight 587, November 12, 2001

Anything on the news and elsewhere in the media with evidence of digital manipulation, bogus story-lines and propaganda

Postby idschmyd on Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:42 am

hoi.polloi 4 Oct 10 2010, 03:27 AM wrote:Not you, idschmyd.

I was referring to ATTC's comment (my bolds)


Were the real ones killed in this accident that perhaps also included fake names?




Fuck my! I've been on my hobby horse about that. Perhaps I should read all comments more carefully. Thanks for saying.


I suppose EXIF data doesn’t exist for non digital shots, but just in case, can someone with the time and apparatus do an EXIF check on this 1988 shot, please?

http://billvalentine.net/images/billval ... _aa_bw.jpg

And perhaps also on these two

http://billvalentine.net/images/billval ... ke_200.jpg
http://billvalentine.net/images/billval ... in_pat.jpg
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Postby idschmyd on Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:07 am

Simon, regards the horizontal tail fin sheering off, you ask if such a breakage has ever occurred in aviation history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5beNH9EKnps

At 7:48 in this vid, Robert Benzon, NTSB investigator, says "This type of accident has never happened before, hasn't happened since the accident, and we would hope it would never happen again."

Just before that, narrator says "As of 2006, Airbus has yet to modify its A300 600." It was not ordered to do so by the investigators, but suggestions were made.


Looks remarkably well considering its final decent, doesn't it?

Image
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Postby idschmyd on Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:57 pm

Correction: Im my prevous, for 'horizontal' read 'vertical'. Doah!

Another Gay Character from the 9/11 Crew?

Image

Bill Valentine is the name accredited with book ‘A Season of Grief’. Website here. http://billvalentine.net/ He’s the Shoppy partner of phantom flight AA587 attendant Joe Lopes. (NB the flight doesn't exist in take-off record). Here’s one bad artistic impression of the couple together.

Image
For example, note the guy behind the protagonists and to the left of the pic, with the US flag encroaching in his head.

The other pics are here. I challenge anyone to declare that any of these is a genuine photograph, and to explain the anomalies that will be pointed out in such case.

ImageImageImageImage

Wondering if the creators of this kind of rubbishy supporting evidence make low quality their key signature to avoid wasting each other’s time when they’re on the receiving end of it. I mean, who among intel gathering services would waste time on this?

But why fake AA587? What’s the point? Who gained? Perhaps the answer’s in the money. Dinner to cook?
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Postby SimonJCP on Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:17 pm

VICTIM'S LIST
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/no ... scrash.usa

Crew
Captain Edward States, US
First Officer Sten Molin, US
Deborah Fontakis, US
Barbara Giannasca, US
Wilmer Gonzalez, US
Joseph Lopes, US
Michele Mills, US
Carol Palm, US
William Valdespino, US

Passengers
Manuel Abreu, Dominican Republic
Juana Abreu, US
Candida Rosa Acosta, US
Oneida Acosta De Araujo, US
Rosa Alcantara, US
Selene Alcantara, Dominican Republic
Danny Alcantara Taveras, Dominican Republic
Hipolito Algarroba, US
Ubencia Algarroba, US
Josefina Allende, US
Ramon Almanzar, US
Rosa Almanzar, Dominican Republic
Juan Almonte, Dominican Republic
Luz Alvarado, Dominican Republic
Rafael Alvarez, US
Marina Aponte, US
Regina Arroyo Molina, US
Jovanny Baez, Dominican Republic
Noemi Batista, US
Lialette (Lie-A-Lot?) Batista, US
Tito Bautista, Dominican Republic
Baudilio Bautista, US
Xiomara Betances, Dominican Republic
Dennis Blair, US
Jose Bonilla, US
Wilberto Brito, US
Pedro Brito Rodriguez, US
Angela (Maria) Burdier, Dominican Republic
Martina Burdier De Rodriguez, US
Maria Burdier Tapia, Dominican Republic
Robert Cabrera, Dominican Republic
Consesora Calaff, US
Ramon Calderon, US
Petronila Capellan, US
Genimiz Carty, US
Juana Castillo, US
Santana Castillo Fernandez, US
Sobeira Cedeno, US
Angel Celestino, US
Christina Charles, US
David (Ching) Chen, Taiwan
Victor Cornelio, Dominican Republic
Juan Coronado, US
Gladys Coronado, US
Danilo Corporan (Corporate/Corporation?), Dominican Republic
Eduarda Corporan (Corporate/Corporation?), US
Janet Corporan )Corporate/Corporation?) (infant)
Gisela Cuello, US
Indira Cuevas, US
Federico de la Asuncion, US
Karla de la Cruz, US
Clara de la Cruz, US
Leonardo de la Cruz, US
Leonte de la Cruz, US
Marino de la Cruz, Dominican Republic
Angela de la Cruz, Dominican Republic
Glen de la Cruz, US
Maria de la Cruz, US
Alexandra de la Cruz, US
Juan de la Cruz, US
Rafael de la Cruz, US
Alcibiades de la Cruz, US
Ramona de Leon Corporan, US
Nieves de los Santos, Dominican Republic
Guadalupe del Rosario De Peralta, US
Eustaquio Delarosa, US
Reynida Delgado, Dominican Republic
Patricia Demarchena, Dominican Republic
Lorenzo Despradel, US
Robert Despradel, US
Roberto Despradel (infant)
Julia Diaz
Victor Diaz, US
Francisco Diaz, Dominican Republic
Luz Diaz, US
Maria Diaz, Dominican Republic
Alejandro Diaz, US
Eduvige Diaz Pachano De Bright, Dominican Republic
D Angelo Dilone, US
Julia Dominguez, US
Adriano Espino, Dominican Republic
Florentine Estrella, US
Miguelina Fabre, US
Marra Filanovsky, US
Ilya Filanovsky, US
Lasar Flores, US
Mariana Flores, US
Lasar (Isaiah) Flores, US
Anthony (Antonio) Forteza, US
Nalda Galva de Reynoso, Dominican Republic
Milagros Garcia Perez, US
Eduardo George, US
Milton George, US
Felix Gervacio, US
Jose Gomez Contrera, US
Pedro Gonzalez, Dominican Republic
Carmen Gonzalez, US
Regina Gonzalez, US
Sylvie Greleau, Great Britain (see note below)
Altagracia Guerrero, US
Dariana Guerrero, US
Diomarys Guerrero, US
Glenda Guzman, US
Johnny Guzman, US
Nicolasa Guzman De Mercedes, Dominican Republic
Miguel Guzman Jr, US
Marion Hartigan, US
Teofilo Hernandez, Dominican Republic
Juan Hernandez, Dominican Republic
Carla Hernandez, US
Joanny Hernandez, US
Jean Heuze, France
Yohanly Hidalgo, US
Dario Hidalgo, US
Alexander Hodge, US
Joseph Huber, US
Frances Huber, US
Sarah Huertas, US
Jose Vicente Infante, US
Yamil Jerez, US
Humberto Jimenez, Dominican Republic
Yesica Jimenez, Dominican Republic
Jayke Jimenez (infant)
Roberto Jimenez Perez, US
Ernestina Jiminian, US
Jose La[bfontaine, Dominican Republic
Melvin Landsman, US
Elaine Landsman, US
Luz Maria Lendof, Dominican Republic
Marcelina Liriano Guerrero, US
Mercedes Lopez, US
Emily Lopez, US
Argentina Lopez, US
Roberto Lopez Jr, US
Jose Lora, US
Karl Lora, US
Mercedes Luciano De Veloz, US
Maricio Made, Dominican Republic
Ana Made, Dominican Republic
Victor Marcano, US
Digna Marte, Dominican Republic
German Martinez, Dominican Republic
Aurora Martinez, US
Yanelly Martinez, US
Angel Martinez, US
Sura Martinez, US
Juan Martinez, Dominican Republic
Ibelise Martinez De Goris, Dominican Republic
Nieve Mason, Dominican Republic
Virgilia Mateo, US
Nuris Matias, US
Dominga Matias, Dominican Republic
Orlando Matos Perez, US
Hilda Mayol, US
Carmen Medina, Dominican Republic
Wilfrido Medrano, US
Ashot Melikjanian, US
Grace Mena, US
Wilton Mendez, US
Daisy Montalvo, US
Diane Monte, US
Remedios Montilla, Dominican Republic
Antonia Morales, US
Luis Morales, US
Efrain Mota, US
Luis Munoz, US
Alen Noboa, US
Victoria Nova Rivera, US
Ana Nunez
Fatima Nunez, Dominican Republic
Aaliya Nunez Reynoso (infant), US
Siegried Objio, US
Rosanna Ogando, Dominican Republic
Ramon Oviedo Germoso, US
Angel Paradis, US
Carmen Pena, Dominican Republic
Katherine Pena, US
Michael Pena, US
Magnolia Pena Nadir, US
Yelisa Peralta, Dominican Republic
Ramon Peralta, Dominican Republic
Augusto Peralta, US
Fernando Perez, US
Carmen Perez, Dominican Republic
Jose Perez, Dominican Republic
Maria Perez Mendez, Dominican Republic
Luis Perreaux, US
Jean Phanord, Haiti
Luis Pichardo, Dominican Republic
Ramona Pimentel, Dominican Republic
Nurys Polanco, US
Ercilia Polanco, US
Reyna Prospero, US
Joseph Ramirez, US
Victor Ramirez, Dominican Republic
Jose Ramirez, Dominican Republic
Rafael Ravelo, Dominican Republic
Eleuteria Reid-Hay, US
Agapito Reyes, Dominican Republic
Roberto Reyes, US
Norbeto Rivera, US
Julio Rodriguez, US
Ruben Rodriguez, US
Julia Rodriguez, US
Maria Rodriguez, US
Lucia Rodriguez Almonte, US
Juana Rojas Javier, Dominican Republic
Mercedes Roman, US
Whilman Rosa, US
Angel Rosa, US
Jose Rosa Toledo, Dominican Republic
Danilo Rosario Castillo, Dominican Republic
Rosa Ruiz, US
Johanna Sanchez, US
Gilbert Sanchez (infant)
Felix Sanchez, US
Luis Sanchez, US
Jose Sanchez, US
Elvis Sanchez, US
Timo Santala, US
Iris Magali Santana, Dominican Republic
Jose Siri, US
Imelda Solis, US
Daria Soriano De Batista, Dominican Republic
Asencion Sosa, US
Franklin Soto, US
Balbina Soto De Rodriguez, US
Angela Suazo Perez, US
Lina Tabar, Dominican Republic
Milagros Tabar, Dominican Republic
Maria Tatis, US
Jose Tatis Minaya, Dominican Republic
Guadalupe Taveras, US
Ivelisse Taveras, Dominican Republic
Adaline Tejeda, US
Evelyn Tolentino, US
Po Tseng, Taiwan
Feliciano Valera Sierra, US
Maximo Valerio, Dominican Republic
Norma Valoy, US
Maria Vargas, US
Ilan Vaserman, Israel
Zeneida Vega, Dominican Republic
Carlos Veloz, US
Braudilio Veloz, US
Gloria Ventin, US
Cristopher Ventin, US
Maria Del Carmen Ventura, Dominican Republic
Nicola Villella, US
Kathleen Williams, US
Cesar Zabala, US

=====================

Give me a break -- this is just another computerized vicsim list.
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Postby brianv on Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:50 pm

Ha, I hadn't spotted all the holy schmolies before, but I did spot the "phonebook" list. Musn't forget the old "one Israeli" slip and slide!
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Postby SimonJCP on Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:47 am

There are conflicting casualty figures, as usual:

Wikipedia: 265 Victims
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_A ... Flight_587

CBS: "At Least" 265 Killed (In 2002!)
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/plane_cra ... _time.html

TIME: 262 Victims
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 63,00.html

New Zealand Herald: 260 Victims
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... tid=228170

Rudy Giuliani: 255 Victims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbSzsXuVQ2E

Jewish News: 266 Victims
http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/011130/belle.shtml

The authoritative figure, however? 265.

The total amount of passengers on board Flight 11, Flight 175, Flight 77, and Flight 93 was officially 266.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/plane_cra ... _time.html

Sheer Coincidence?
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Postby simonshack on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:32 am

SimonJCP 4 Oct 11 2010, 12:47 AM wrote:
The authoritative figure, however? 265.

The total amount of passengers on board Flight 11, Flight 175, Flight 77, and Flight 93 was officially 266.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/plane_cra ... _time.html

Sheer Coincidence?



Well, SimonJCP

The "265" (not "266") total casualty figure (for the 9/11 passengers) was actually the most 'authoritative' for quite a while in many news reports:

265 people killed on four planes; 232 passengers, 25 flight attendants, 8 pilots. (Note that this total includes the 19 hijackers, who reportedly boarded the planes as passengers.)
http://www.fact-index.com/c/ca/casualti ... tacks.html

As of October 29, 2003, 2,995 people were presumed dead as a result of all four September 11 attacks. This includes the casualties at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, on the airplanes and the hijackers. 265 people killed on four planes; 232 passengers, 25 flight attendants, 8 pilots.
http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclo ... m_legends/

The fatalities were in the thousands: 265 on the four planes; 2,595, including 343 '' (reported by CBS News ). October 30, 2003

The casualties were in the thousands: 265 on the planes;....
http://mathdaily.com/lessons/September_ ... st_attacks

*******************************************************************


In fact, that "265" figure seems to be a pretty 'popular' one. At 9:30PM on September 11, it was the estimated figure of dead firefighters !
9:30 pm - New York fire officials confirmed that at least 265 firefighters who had responded to the World Trade Center had been killed.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/blattack0911.htm

Oh, right: so, at 9:30 PM the NYFD firehouses still had not made a proper count of their "lost heroes" - who eventually turned out to be "343"?????
Gimme a flaming break! :rolleyes:
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby SimonJCP on Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:25 am

CNN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3bJYzLRZ7k

The reporter notes that a witness stated that the right side engine was on fire. The witness who is on the phone at this point, however, maintains that it was definitely the left side.

At 4:19, the anchor notes that each of the witness saw the attack "somewhat differently".

WNBC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzc7W0c ... re=related

At 4:56, the entire scene turns dark blue and then turns back to normal.

At 5:44, we're treated to a painfully obvious actor. He excitedly goes on until 6:31, claiming to have seen everything -- including people inside the plane!
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Postby SimonJCP on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:15 am

simonshack 4 Oct 11 2010, 02:32 AM wrote:
SimonJCP 4 Oct 11 2010, 12:47 AM wrote:
The authoritative figure, however? 265.

The total amount of passengers on board Flight 11, Flight 175, Flight 77, and Flight 93 was officially 266.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/plane_cra ... _time.html

Sheer Coincidence?



Well, SimonJCP

The "265" (not "266") total casualty figure (for the 9/11 passengers) was actually the most 'authoritative' for quite a while in many news reports:

265 people killed on four planes; 232 passengers, 25 flight attendants, 8 pilots. (Note that this total includes the 19 hijackers, who reportedly boarded the planes as passengers.)
http://www.fact-index.com/c/ca/casualti ... tacks.html

As of October 29, 2003, 2,995 people were presumed dead as a result of all four September 11 attacks. This includes the casualties at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, on the airplanes and the hijackers. 265 people killed on four planes; 232 passengers, 25 flight attendants, 8 pilots.
http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclo ... m_legends/

The fatalities were in the thousands: 265 on the four planes; 2,595, including 343 '' (reported by CBS News ). October 30, 2003

The casualties were in the thousands: 265 on the planes;....
http://mathdaily.com/lessons/September_ ... st_attacks

*******************************************************************


In fact, that "265" figure seems to be a pretty 'popular' one. At 9:30PM on September 11, it was the estimated figure of dead firefighters !
9:30 pm - New York fire officials confirmed that at least 265 firefighters who had responded to the World Trade Center had been killed.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/blattack0911.htm

Oh, right: so, at 9:30 PM the NYFD firehouses still had not made a proper count of their "lost heroes" - who eventually turned out to be "343"?????
Gimme a flaming break! :rolleyes:



NICE CATCH, SIMON!

So:
The widely-reported figure of casualties on all four 9/11 flights? 265.
The initial figure of "firefighter" casualties? 265.
The official casualties figure of the Flight 587 crash? 265.

Wow.

And it's ludicrous that the FDNY would have given such an "off" figure. We've been repeatedly told about how "tight" the FDNY is.
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Postby simonshack on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:45 pm

*

FLIGHT 587 CRASH SITE (one of several)

The airliner apparently broke up mid-air in several pieces - thus 'explaining' the various house fires in the Queens FDNY neighborhood.
This digital scenery with the little white house should be where one of the engines smashed on the ground:

Artist's impression of engine crash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lIzyUWAG3U (at 0:17)
ImageImage

CNN shot of real location
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3bJYzLRZ7k (at 1:33)
ImageImage

As should be evident to any observer, the artist appears to have used the very same CNN shot (at virtually same angle/perspective/framing) to construct his digital reconstruction/animation. Call me a 'paranoid conspiracy nut' - but I can't help feeling something's fishy about this. Oh well - of course - this was the view CNN showed on
TV so the artist naturally just grabbed that to compose his 3D animation. Right...silly me...Duh - WHY do I see sinister things everywhere? :P

But let's forget the 3D animation for a minute and look at the 'real' CNN scenery images. On the top of my head, I would like to submit the following observations:

1- No fire seems to have raged here at all; the white house is still white and the only "signs of firefighting" here are the fire hose and some water spilled on the tarmac.

2- The "Airbus jumbo engine" looks like a hollow, totally uncharred, half-cylinder and does not appear to have made any crater in the ground as it "plunged from a height of 28.000 feet" - as stated officially. It really looks like a heap of junk unloaded from a truck. If it were a real Airbus engine, why does it seem that roughly half of the engine is missing? When and how did it split in 2 pieces and where is that missing half? Did it break off on impact and bounce behind the white house? :huh:
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby idschmyd on Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:36 pm

Supreme work, guys. From 'not sure' to 'busted!' in 60 hours. The full details of the scam and its workings are yet to be known, and maybe some unfortunate got hurt on the day, but I don't see need to respect the passengers anymore!
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Postby simonshack on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:40 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I just had to screencap this ad !

Image
http://www.septemberclues.info
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Postby corsarino on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:42 pm

I have seen thousands of formation of aircrafts flying and taking off together or one bye one without problems.

The similar little problem occurs when a ship follows another ship.

No a big problem.

It is impossible to crash an Airbus for a wake vortex.
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Postby idschmyd on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:56 pm

simonshack 4 Oct 11 2010, 04:40 PM wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:
I just had to screencap this ad !

Image


Thankfully, in NY, if you're in an aviation disaster you're probably not real.

'Warn'? Does that mean I've no red cards as yet, or a full house?

Or does that say 'warm'??
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Postby Terence.drew on Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:00 pm

simonshack 4 Oct 11 2010, 02:45 PM wrote:
ImageImage





The engine size doesn't seem to fit with that of real A300 Airbus Engine pictured below...it looks smaller


Image

There is also a '7' written large on the upside of what is supposed to be the engine cowling in the picture with the man squatting. I have seen logos painted onto engines but not large numbers - except on test flights where the aircraft model is written a few times on the fuselage..

like the BOEING '7'67 below

Image

AA dont seem to write anything on their engine cowlings you can see both sides of the engine in this pic.

Image
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