Egypt 'Revolution'- all the way to Libya 'War'

[fbenario]

Four possible scenarios off the top of my hat: 1. He turned to crack cocaine and just smoked a rock to console himself, and lost all touch with reality, or 2. He knows full well Al-Qaeda is the IDF Mistaravim unit, so he is telling the truth with doublespeak, or 3. He is begging the West to stop the provocation by declaring he is on their side in the War on Terror, or 4. It is a totally fake story.

What is your take on it?

He is seeing his power and control - and funding - coming to an end, and he figures that blaming Al CIAda will keep the U.S. in his corner, helping him retain power. He's not mad. Nothing important is ever an accident. Perps at the top of the perp pyramid have initiated/manipulated this whole 'revolution thing' beginning with their use of the Wikileaks disinfo false front.

[warriorhun]

Dear simonshack and forum administrators,

I would like to propose an opinion poll on this topic.
I tried to follow the steps of the FAQ description, but I did not succeed.

The poll title would be:
Faked or real revolutions?

The two poll options would be:
1. Are these events part of a "Crescent of Arabic Democracy"-plan?
2. Are these events legit revolutions of the Muslim people to create secular liberal democracies?

I have no access to start a poll I guess, so please let me propose this one.
Thank you.

[hoi.polloi]

Added something. Let me know if it looks alright. I figure people can choose one or two or all three answers. It seems speculative and I am presently in the "we don't know" camp, but it's an interesting discussion worthy of some kind of fun poll.

[simonshack]

This is a firsthand testimony of an Italian who has just returned from Tripoli (LIBYA's capital) and writes to the director of an Italian newspaper (the right wing "Il Giornale") of his personal experience of what is going on down there. I tend to privilege the credibility of such a reader's comment rather than what the 'info' the mainstream media hammers into the minds of hapless TV viewers.

Here is the original comment, and below you'll find my translation of it:

Vengo da Tripoli e vi dico che i giornali raccontano un sacco di menzogne

Egregio Direttore
Mi chiamo Paolo Pazzini vivo a Tripoli e sono appena rimpatriato ieri, 24 febbraio. La nostra azienda ha dei contratti in Libia per questo vivo li, nel centro di Tripoli. Vorrei confortare le dichiarazione dell'Ambasciatore Italiano Schioppa: a Tripoli la situazione è calma, fino a ieri tutti lavoravano, e i bombardamenti sulla folla sono propaganda pura, come propaganda pura sono le fosse comuni. Infatti il cimitero di Tripoli sorge sul mare e le foto fatte vedere da giornali, e non, italiani («Repubblica» etc..) sono foto di normali sepolture in quel cimitero.

I giornali italiani ed in genere occidentali stanno raccontando una marea di menzogne mirate con l'appoggio di elementi libici che vivono all'estero cacciati dal Paese. Le faccio presente che io stesso lavorando con i militari, le assicuro che non un solo reparto dell'Esercito, né della Marina, né dell'Aviazione si sono ancora mossi. Ci sono combattimenti nella zona di Bengasi ed in altre città dell'est tra la Polizia Libica (non le forze armate quindi) e le bande armate. Le due navi che, dicono, avrebbero disertato sono una menzogna e propaganda pura. É stato smentito anche dalle forze Amate maltesi, («Times» di Malta): nessuna nave militare libica è approdata a Malta. Ci sono state diserzioni di solo due aerei i cui piloti hanno approfittato della giusta occasione per espatriare all'estero chiedendo asilo, ma nulla a che vedere con diserzione delle Forze Armate. La rivolta è iniziata da Bengasi mi hanno spiegato i militari, perché è stata fatta da egiziani, armati sino ai denti, entrati in Libia illegalmente che hanno preso il potere a Bengasi con l'appoggio di elementi libici dell'opposizione. Sono state fermate carovane di auto nella zona di Tripoli, cariche di egiziani e colme di armamento ed esplosivo di fabbricazione occidentale. E queste bande armate egiziane, sono state finanziate non si sa da chi.

Teniamo presente che con la propaganda che stanno facendo in giro per il mondo (con l'appoggio della opposizione italiana che lo fa per avere vantaggi elettorali interni, e perdite enormi per il sitema Italia) il gioco è chiaro, cioè togliere la Libia all'Italia, quindi a Eni, Impregilo, Finmeccanica e migliaia di altre aziende, (parliamo di contratti in corso per miliardi di Euro) per accaparrarsi il petrolio libico, le infrastrutture, e la posizione strategica. Infatti, oggi, inglesi, francesi, americani, tedeschi, etc...etc... stanno già parlando di inviare «navi militari» per «aiuti umanitari», quindi installarsi nel Paese militarmente. Il gioco è chiaro.

La saluto cordialmente

Paolo Pazzini

My translation:

I come from Tripoli and I tell you that the newspapers tell you a sack of lies

Dear director,

My name is Paolo Pazzini, I live in Tripoli and I have just returned (to Italy) yesterday, February 24th.
Our company has contracts with Libya and that's why I've lived there, in the centre of Tripoli. I would like to back up the statements of the Italian ambassador Schioppa: in Tripoli, the situation is calm. until yesterday everyone was working, and the bombings of the people are pure propaganda, and so are the mass graves - pure propaganda. In fact, the Tripoli cemetery located by the seaside and the photos shown by the Italian (and other) newspapers are normal pictures of burials in that cemetery.
The Italian newspapers and other western media are reporting heaps of lies with the backing of Libyan elements living abroad, ousted by the country. I am myself working within the military, and I can assure you that not one department of the army, or the navy, or the aviation have been mobilitated.

There are fights in the Bengasi zone and in other eastern cities between the Libyan police (not the Army) and armed gangs. The two ships that, they say, would have deserted are just lies and pure propaganda. Even the Maltese armed forces have denied ("Times" of Malta) that any Libyan ship has docked in Malta. There have been only two desertions of aircrafts whose pilots have taken the opportunity to ask for political asylum, but this has nothing to do with (mass) army forces deserting. The uprising started in Bengasi, as I have heard from military circles, and was fomented by Egyptians armed to their teeth who entered Libya illegally and took power in Bengasi with Libyan opposition elements. Auto caravans have been stopped around Tripoli, filled with Egyptians and loaded with western-produced armaments and explosives. And there is no way of knowing who financed these armed Egyptian gangs.

Let us be aware that this propaganda that is being fed to the world (with the backing of the Italian opposition who does it for internal electoral advantages, with enormous losses for the Italian system) is a transparent game, i.e. cut off Libya from Italy, from ENI, Impreglio, Finmeccanica and thousands of other industries (we are talking about contracts worth milions of Euros) to take hold of the Libyan oil reserves, their infrastructures and their strategic position. In fact, today, the British, the French, the Americans, the Germans, etc...etc...are already talking about sending "military vessels" with "humanitarian aid", or in other words, enact a military occupation of the country. The game is clear (transparent).

I salute you cordially

Paolo Pazzini

[hoi.polloi]

Wow - that's a striking contrast to the media's message. Thank you for posting, Simon! Even if it's invented (which it doesn't feel like, to me) it just shows that people are aware that an entire country can be blanketed in propaganda.

[nonhocapito]

Yes it is a striking difference, and it does not surprise me much. I think that message of Pazzini is perfectly credible. As I said, I had a -limited- experience in Lybia not long ago, and the country was NOT desperate, the people were NOT desperate.

But think about this: the UN has voted now in favor of sanctions. What a shame! This is outrageous! Sanctions are hard for the people in their everyday life!! So what is the real reason for these sanctions? Anybody remembers IRAQ? You keep a country under sanctions for weeks or months until people get desperate. Then the conditions become perfectly aligned with the projections of them you have the plato's cave of us "westerners"... Same thing happened in Yugoslavia, etc etc

[warriorhun]

Dear All,

something is stinking in Libya.
When I heard the "Libyan army massacring their own folks", that was my unlocking.
When you take your army oath, you swear to defend your people even if it means your death.
You are ready to kill and die in the defence of your folks. You are not afraid of dying. And you have a gun.
How can the evild dictator convince you to shoot your folks? Threatening with the firing squad? You are not afraid of dying to defend your folks. You have a gun to rebel with-you can not cower a man who has a gun, no wonder they took them away from us in Europe.
But let's say, you are a coward and comply. In the 1989 Romanian revolution, the army started shooting the people. The used up, let's say 20,000 live bullets. When the statistics said the death toll was under 10, they were returned to the barracks asap. They were all firing in the air. So this will not work.
And do not come up with Saddam's army using WMDs at home: his officer corps was Sunni, and they gassed Kurds and Shia.

Saddam was helped by US against Khomeini, was supplied with US WMDs, got a green light to invade Kuwait. Then he got fucked over.
Gaddhafi played along with the West with the War on Terror, sucked up to them, helped in the Lockerbie case. Now they fuck him over, too. Gaddhafi is kind of Axis of Evil, and I told you some of the plans may contain invasion, didn't I? I was concentrating on Iran and Syria, but today I heard that sanctions against Libya are on the way, and a UN approved invasion to liberate the country? Well folks, that means this may be practice of what is planned in Iran and Syria. I said the aim is in Iran to make them shoot their own people? The example of Libya says maybe a media-faked massacre is enough for invasion. Also "Al-Qaeda"-Mistaravim provocators on ground level to stir up shit-think Bengazi. I know it is a long shot: let's wait, but I stick to the "Crescent of Arabic Democracy"-plan theory as if it was my own plan .

[brianv]

Call for Libya "No Fly Zone"

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20110228/tu ... 23e80.html

There's fire in your words guys - keep it coming!

[simonshack]

*
The massive, unbearably silly media bullshit really never stops. Here's a headline from the largest Italian newspaper, "La Repubblica":

MASSACRE IN LIBYA - 10.000 DEAD (according to "Al Arabiya")
http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2011/02 ... -12794693/

(My translation of first lines of article):
"The violence doesn't stop, the casualties in Tripoli alone could number one thousand, mass graves in the capital, but the arabic television reports much higher figures: the wounded are reportedly 50.000. The (Italian) Foreign Minister reports to the chamber of deputies: "Credible figures".

Yeah, so someone had to provide videos of these 'mass graves' to back up the bullshit story. And - pronto - out they came. Well, it didn't take long for someone to notice that the images proposed was that of the old seaside Sidi Hamed cemetery - and that the video is just stock footage from former burials there ...absolutely-nada-zilch-dead-nothing to do with the current events in Tripoli.
Here you can watch the "mass grave" video: http://petrolio.blogosfere.it/2011/02/l ... arole.html

Now, exactly WHO - you may ask - diffused this video purportingly showing "mass graves for victims of Gaddhafi's wrath"? Well, none other than this brand new "people's videos organization" backed by the United Nations :

PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-PERP ALERT-

ONE DAY ON EARTH (founded by Los Angeles "students" Kyle Ruddick e Brandon Litman)
"One Day on Earth, a global documentary project amassing footage from every country in the world shot during the 24-hour period of October 10, 2010 (10.10.10), launches its online video archive today. In partnership with the United Nations, Vimeo and more than 60 non-profit organizations, One Day on Earth tapped thousands of filmmakers and inspired citizens, representing every country, to share their unique experiences."
http://www.seekingmedia.com.au/news.php ... smlid=2978

Check them out - I have no doubts we will hear (or see) a lot more crap from them: http://www.onedayonearth.org/

[warriorhun]

Dear All,

As everybody in Libya is arming themselves to the teeth to fight the evil dictator's massacring army, a few photos to feel serious:

Would you give weapons into these HANDS?



These violent sims should either close the shoulder stock of their AKs or open it full, but this way they look like a bunch of dickhead sims.

Fucking hard to fight with one leg. The famous 1956 rebel, Mesz "Tuskólábú" János at least had a pegleg, unlike the libyan in blue jeans:



Yep, if I were a glue-sniffing tagger in Bengazi, I would spray the walls in English, so the police wouldn't have a fucking clue what I am on about



I have no words for this scene. As Naudet said, Zis is not happenin'. :



Till the cows come home, folks. This would be so fucking ridiculous, if I did not know that based on this lame shit real people will die.

I would rather watch goats and WMDs :


Ok, here is my take: there are no Western reporters roaming Libya freely. There maybe are disturbances or fightings, but whatever the "Al-Qaeda"-Mistaravim are up to, you will not see no videos about.
And probably Gaddhafi will be the next Saddam, and a new country and peoples will be liberated. I myself still waiting for communism to end in the real fucked-up parts of the world, but it seems freedom is not in a hurry to reach those sorry places and folks...

[nonhocapito]

Boy this story makes me so angry I can barely articulate my feelings. It is so ridiculous.

We supposedly have people fighting the Lybian army street by street. And Gaddafi barricaded in his "compound". (BTW: Gaddafi's "compound" is larger than an entire neighborhood. It is completely surrounded by high walls and guard towers. It is not Hitler's bunker, it is a small city. On my first or second day in Tarabulus I made our guide-reference guy laugh hard as he drove past the compound, in the middle of the city, when in I asked: "is that a prison or something?") You can see the place on google maps here.

To me right now the bigger question is: who are these people fighting? When Fidel Castro fought against Batista, the world knew there was a guerrilla leader named so and so. They had history, organization, motives, faces. They answered questions, and had plans. These rebels... who are they? Who are their leaders? What are their demands? Nobody knows. They didn't even bothered to make up a sub-comandante or something.
Who cares? It is a movie, it is not reality!! Isn't this what we are asked to think when we watch a movie? Relax, It's just a movie, stop picking on every little detail!!
So to enjoy a movie we didn't even paid the ticket for, we are believe that these people, without leaders, demands, history or "friends abroad" gave 50,000 lives in a week?? WWTC? (Who Writes This Crap?)

But think this: if the outcome of this movie is really going to be Gaddafi exhiled, or killed, and Lybia falling into other hands, then you gotta wonder: who is actually doing the fighting now?

On one hand, you have the fakery team inventing "rebels" and inventing "insurrection" and inventing "victims".

On the other hand, the real one, you have an army with weapons and tanks and strategy and equipment and control actually squeezing Gaddafi's out. An army that has prepared for this months in advance. Some foreign paid army, I reckon? I say... Blackwater/Xe, because I cannot think of anything else.

p.s. and talking about that: maybe you did not know that Xe is apparently now owned by Monsanto... and that Monsanto is buddying-up with the Gates Foundation to force every single African nation to accept its GMO seeds, something that muslim leaders that want to unite Africa, such as Gaddafi, are very likely resisting?

[brianv]

Residents of Benghazi who have volunteered to train with the opposition cleaned and greased their weapons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/world ... ml?_r=2&hp

[Extremophile]

Just my 2 cents for now..

Do you know by any chance what the 'original source' (I mean a website, not the producer ) of these photos is, warriorhun?

*erratum*: where I put "shadow made by what??", in the above edited picture, could be produced by a fold in the guy's trousers. Although that guy seems to have a very long left leg and arm (right side in pic).

[warriorhun]

Dear Extremophile and All,

To answer your question: I took the picture from this link: http://galeria.index.hu/kulfold/2011/02 ... age_size=l
It says,
Photo: AFP - Daniel Slim.
(The photo shows us: "Libyan border guards who defected and joined the popular uprising against leader Moamer Kadhafi celebrate at the Salloum border with Egypt." Their feet are as outrageous as their hands)
Seems like AFP is as big a faker as AP.

And not just in Libya: the next AFP photo is from Bahrein. On the right of the picture, there is Alien disguised as human in a striped T-shirt: I wonder where Ripley is when Bahrein needs her:




This next AFP photo even shows us Western reporters taking pictures in Libya on the tank, so we can see that they really-really are there, and are taking lots of real pictures . I wonder why do they need fake pictures then. As I say, I would bet no Western reporters are roaming Libya:



3 simple questions and answers on Libya:
1. Who are those strangers who are showing us the images and news on the Media about Libya? Answer: let us call them perps.
2. Why are they showing the news and images to us? Answer: they want us to believe them as reality, as real happenings.
3. What is their aim to achieve with us showing these news and images? Answer: they want us either to approve another invasion to liberate a massacred nation, or approve the revolutions of islamic people who want to live in secular liberal democratic societies, or both. Put your hands to your hearts: could you disapprove such noble things?

And besides, why the fuck would the Media tell us what is really happening? Let me quote my humble self:

1. We live in an information age.
2. In an information age, having information on real events and live happenings from trusted sources, is not just simply time-critical in decision making, but an outright decisive factor in winning warfare, in realising economic gains, in achieving political agenda.
3. If you had such information, would you share it with every peasant who has a TV subscription?
4. No, you won't.
5. Therefore the Media is not doing it either.
6. So, what is the media doing instead?
7. Projecting images of a non-existent "reality" only, altered and faked images, in order to provoke thought patterns in the viewers, provoke emotions and opinions in the viewers, and incite mass reactions.

And I did not say anything really serious so far about Gaddhafi talking about Al-Qaeda, and the supposed Bengazi islamist extremist infiltration/armed rebellion. I am saving my detailed "Al-Qaeda"=Mistaravim-theory for a rainy day to post.

[Extremophile]

Dear Extremophile and All,

I took the picture from this link: http://galeria.index.hu/kulfold/2011/02 ... age_size=l
It says,
Photo: AFP - Daniel Slim.
Seems like AFP is as big a faker as AP.

Thanks. This Daniel S(l)im , according to his/her Linkedin site ( http://www.linkedin.com/pub/daniel-slim/1b/a96/bb4 ), he/she is a Technical Manager for Latin America at AFP (Agence France Presse) since 1981.
I don't have a Linkedin account so I can't take a closer look at his/her profile. But this line at the above link strikes me: "She is a very serious journalist with a vast general knowledge."
At this site ( http://82.227.148.74/Techafp/trombinoscope.htm ), which is full of funny mugshot pics by the way, we can see a picture of him/her :



Not a she, but definitely a he.

The text that goes with the photo, according to http://ca.news.yahoo.com/terror-tripoli ... 8-861.html (click on photo at left to see description)

Libyan border guards who defected and joined the popular uprising against leader Moamer Kadhafi celebrate at the Salloum border with Egypt. Rebels advanced on the Libyan capital Sunday as US President Barack Obama urged Moamer Kadhafi to step down "now" amid growing fears that his teetering four-decade rule could descend into civil war.

So we have to assume a technical manager of latin america is in Libya on the ground taking picture(s). But this is the only picture credited to him which deals with Libya.

There is a French article too by the way which carries Slim's picture. But the source of the article is Reuters.
http://www.lepoint.fr/monde/l-onu-adopt ... 104_24.php

Oh look at that, they cropped away all the problems

There are some pictures credited to Slim from the FIFA World Cup in South Africa of last year.. that is the only stuff from mr. Slim I could find so far. For someone working at AFP for 30 years this kind of.. strange, wouldn't you agree?
I could send him an email ( [email protected] ) to see if that generates a response.