Simulacra and Simulation

Questions, speculations & updates on the techniques and nature of media fakery

Re: Simulacra and Simulation

Unread postby edgewaters on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:49 pm

whatsgoingon wrote:It is so odd that Baudrillard's philosophy was dead nuts correct about simulation in the modern era, and the book Simulacra and Simulation was then used as a prop in The Matrix, which is the ultimate movie of a simulation, and yet, this philosopher was so easily drawn to the notion that 9/11 was real. Wonder how much money he took to say that?


I think Baudrillard can't be read so simply. It does seem he believes the media account of planes hitting buildings - but it doesn't seem he thinks it is what it purports to be. Keep in mind here that Baudrillard called the Gulf War a "hoax" but he didn't think no planes dropped bombs, or that nobody was killed - he thought it wasn't really a war. It was a non-event, in the sense that nothing changed.

He calls 9/11 an "absolute event" in contrast to a "non-event" because unlike the non-event, it did create change.

He also drops quite a few hints about what he thinks. Take this part for instance:

Moral condemnation and the sacred union against terrorism are equal to the prodigious jubilation engendered by witnessing this global superpower being destroyed; better, by seeing it more or less self-destroying, even suiciding spectacularly. Though it is (this superpower) that has, through its unbearable power, engendered all that violence brewing around the world, and therefore this terrorist imagination which -- unknowingly -- inhabits us all.

That we have dreamed of this event, that everybody without exception has dreamt of it, because everybody must dream of the destruction of any power hegemonic to that degree, - this is unacceptable for Western moral conscience, but it is still a fact, and one which is justly measured by the pathetic violence of all those discourses which attempt to erase it.

It is almost they who did it, but we who wanted it. If one does not take that into account, the event lost all symbolic dimension to become a pure accident, an act purely arbitrary, the murderous fantasy of a few fanatics, who would need only to be suppressed. But we know very well that this is not so. Thus all those delirious, counter-phobic exorcisms: because evil is there, everywhere as an obscure object of desire. Without this deep complicity, the event would not have had such repercussions, and without doubt, terrorists know that in their symbolic strategy they can count on this unavowable complicity.


I think that last sentence is pretty important. In context, he's talking about the perpetrators counting on the complicity of the public in their "symbolic strategy."

It continues:

This goes much further than hatred for the dominant global power from the disinherited and the exploited, those who fell on the wrong side of global order. That malignant desire is in the very heart of those who share (this order's) benefits. An allergy to all definitive order, to all definitive power is happily universal, and the two towers of the World Trade Center embodied perfectly, in their very double-ness (literally twin-ness), this definitive order.

No need for a death wish or desire for self-destruction, not even for perverse effects. It is very logically, and inexorably, that the (literally: "rise to power of power") exacerbates a will to destroy it. And power is complicit with its own destruction. When the two towers collapsed, one could feel that they answered the suicide of the kamikazes by their own suicide. It has been said: "God cannot declare war on Itself". Well, It can. The West, in its God-like position (of divine power, and absolute moral legitimacy) becomes suicidal, and declares war on itself.


I haven't read through the whole thing, but it looks like he's dropping a lot of blatant hints there. He was just a person like you or me, keep in mind, and I don't think he was impossible to fool. He was also subject to the same pressures to conform and the same threats of humiliation (very public humiliation in his case), and in fact he'd been defending himself against accusations of "anti-realism" for years.

Maybe he had special knowledge - or maybe he got a whiff of something stinky but he couldn't yet understand that maybe there weren't any hijackers. His belief in the Gulf War as a simulation and a hoax isn't literal; it's in the meaning of it. Nevertheless he does seem to be talking a lot about complicity, mentions a self-attack or suicide repeatedly, and says that the desire to destroy the 'dominant global power' is not just in the heart of the 'disinherited and exploited', but the elites who benefit the most from it.

But he is a philosopher and not one like Karl Popper, who was using philosophy to develop rigorous new empirical methods for use in science. He was more the sort of philosopher that talks out of his rear end often, and uses clever semantics to make simple ideas look more clever and mysterious than they really are. My own take, though admittedly I haven't read the whole thing right through, is that he was just an average spectator like the rest of us, and he was getting the same mixed impressions, hadn't yet clued in to the possibility of it being a *true* hoax rather than his Gulf War sort of hoax, and he was just regurgitating his mixed impressions.

nonhocapito wrote:That's just one part of the story. The difference among the two is or at least was enormous. Christianity was a living religion that, for better or worse, furnished moral values and ethics for most of human experience.
I know that nobody wants to hear this today, but Christianity was radically different from any previous religion, and certainly even more from the ancient myths.
The attitude towards victims and sacrifice, mainly; a certain idea of right and wrong, a theoretical drive towards the overcoming of social injustice and hierarchies.


Well, it was totally different than anything that had happened before in the West - but it was old hat in the Near East. In the West, ideas about right and wrong and moral behaviour and all that didn't, for the most part, come from religion - although it wasn't absent either, it was contained in philosophy.

But in the Near East, the idea of religion furnishing moral codes, legitimizing law, and defining right and wrong had been a feature of all the religions of the area for as long as civilization had existed there - and that's still true to some degree. The law was sacred (the idea of secular law, like secular morality, comes from the West, and it's a cultural divide that exists to this day) and it was handed down from and approved by the gods. If you read a translation of Hammurabi's Code, you quickly see it's not like any legal document you'd see today: it's a religious text, and begins with a lot of talk about the gods and righteousness and destroying the evil-doers and "bringing about the well-being of the oppressed" and the gods having summoned Hammurabi and handed him the code, "so that the strong should not harm the weak"
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Re: Simulacra and Simulation

Unread postby LightCone on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:51 am

§

Strong hints from an article by Baudrillard entitled:

The Mind of Terrorism

This terrorist violence is thus not a rekindling of the fire of reality, or of history. This terrorist violence is not "real" at all. It's worse, in a sense: it's symbolic. Violence in and of itself can be perfectly banal and inoffensive. Only symbolic violence generates singularity. And this singular event, this Manhattan disaster film, consummately combines the two elements of mass Fascination in the twentieth century: the whit. magic of cinema and the black magic of terrorism.


http://www.egs.edu/faculty/jean-baudrillard/articles/the-mind-of-terrorism/
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby jumpy64 on Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:17 pm

Guys, did you know about this site http://www.crisiscast.com/ ?

If it's already been mentioned here before, I couldn't find it.

Anyway, it's an apparently British "agency" that offers "award-winning (What? They even have awards for this? :o ) CRISIS ROLEPLAY ACTORS psychologically prepared in criminal and victim behaviour and film makers specially trained in disaster and crisis management"!!!

They even advertise this with a website! And take a look at the clients...

I couldn't wait to share this, so I haven't studied the site in depth yet, but I think we'll have a field day with it ;)
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby brianv on Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:35 pm

jumpy64 wrote:
Guys, did you know about this site http://www.crisiscast.com/ ?



Somewhat convenient, nevertheless let's have a gander!

Domain Name: crisiscast.com
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Brian Mitchell
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: Cottage Lane
Registrant Street: Wheel House Pump
Registrant City: Westfield
Registrant State/Province: SSX
Registrant Postal Code: TN35 4RP
Registrant Country: GB
Registrant Phone: +44.1424870380
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: Email Masking Image@mde.uk.com[/quote]

Westfield, Hastings, East Sussex TN35 4RP, UK

MR BRIAN STUART MITCHELL
Born: 1960
Nationality: BRITSH (?)
Posttown: WESTFIELD
Postcode: TN35 4AP

Country of residence: UNITED KINGDOM


http://www.cbetta.com/director/brian-stuart-mitchell-2

http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/director/ ... T-MITCHELL

A director of http://www.flashpointrbt.com/
Reality-based training in which trainees are immersed in hyper-real physical recreations of security or combat scenarios to encourage lightning-fast, tactical decision-making. For professionals, companies and teams involved in resilience, defence, and the security and protection of targeted groups and individuals anywhere.


CrisisCast Registered Address

20-22 WENLOCK ROAD
LONDON
N1 7GU

Which is a VirtualOffice with 1850 companies "registered" there http://companydb.uk/postcode/n17gu#.VmrRj795xv0
Last edited by brianv on Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby pov603 on Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:41 pm

Interestingly they appointed an Aussie 'film producer' on 25 October 2014, two months before the Lindt cafe 'siege' in Sydney, Australia.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08533880/filing-history
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby simonshack on Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:51 pm

*

Absolutely fabulous: we should hire these folks for a super-special, televised CLUES CHRONICLE episode! :lol:

Image
http://www.crisiscast.com/

"We use state of the art British film industry techniques, props and special effects to help trainers deliver essential, hands-on, high octane crisis response and disaster management training. We also work with trainee doctors, psychologists and care professionals."

Hmm - I have to wonder if there's a typo error there... Is it "state of the art" - or "art of the state"?
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby tokyojoe1 on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:00 am

I just don't believe anybody would be dumb enough to do this.

It's either a random guy playing a joke, or purposeful disinformation.
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby Apache on Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:06 am

Brian Mitchell appears to be married to Francesca Hunt.

imdb.com/name/nm0402448/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

known for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (2005), Strathblair (1992) and A Prince Among Men (1997). She is married to Brian. They have two children.


Attended Oxford University from 1983 to 1986, the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School from 1987 to 1989, and the Moscow Arts Theatre School in 1989.
Speaks fluent French, sings soprano, and does jazz and tap dancing.
Elder sister of actress India Fisher ("Fly Me To The Moon", Doctor Who audio adventures)


unitedagents.co.uk/francesca-hunt

Crisiscast-ltd is also run by a Mrs Ingrid Francesca Hunt.

duedil.com/company/04433073/mad-dog-enterprises-limited

Also run by Mrs Francesca Hunt along with:

Mr Douglas Esplin Mitchell - Producer

Mr Douglas Esplin Mitchell is Australian. The first directorship we have on file for him was in 1992 at Kennedy Miller Europe Limited. His newest directorship is with Crisiscast Ltd where he holds the position of "Film producer". The company was established 17 May 2013.

Brian's Linked-in page - uk.linkedin.com/in/mitch1
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby brianv on Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:34 am

tokyojoe1 wrote:I just don't believe anybody would be dumb enough to do this.

It's either a random guy playing a joke, or purposeful disinformation.


I share your concerns TJ, too easy. Domain Names and Servers and Web-Sites cost money and time. Unless he has both to burn of course.

@Jumpy How did you come across this site?
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby brianv on Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:08 pm

Francesca Hunt - sister of India Fisher voice actress - for which she has the perfect face! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_Fisher

Her Father is the ex-UK Government THUG Mark Fisher, and one of Bliar's Gang . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fish ... itician%29

...Meanwhile back at the Paris tewwow attacks... maybe a mod might care to move this diversion...
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby jumpy64 on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:21 pm

brianv wrote:
tokyojoe1 wrote:I just don't believe anybody would be dumb enough to do this.

It's either a random guy playing a joke, or purposeful disinformation.


I share your concerns TJ, too easy. Domain Names and Servers and Web-Sites cost money and time. Unless he has both to burn of course.

@Jumpy How did you come across this site?


I saw it in an Italian video on the Paris "attacks" and checked it out immediately. I don't remember the title of the video right now, but it is on a tommix channel. He seems to be in on the fakery, although he claims that maybe somebody did die and we weren't shown the real footage.

I don't agree with that, I think everything was staged from start to finish, of course.

One thing I don't understand, though. How would such a site be disinfo? What would be the point?
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby brianv on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:43 pm

jumpy64 wrote:
brianv wrote:
tokyojoe1 wrote:I just don't believe anybody would be dumb enough to do this.

It's either a random guy playing a joke, or purposeful disinformation.


I share your concerns TJ, too easy. Domain Names and Servers and Web-Sites cost money and time. Unless he has both to burn of course.

@Jumpy How did you come across this site?


I saw it in an Italian video on the Paris "attacks" and checked it out immediately. I don't remember the title of the video right now, but it is on a tommix channel. He seems to be in on the fakery, although he claims that maybe somebody did die and we weren't shown the real footage.

I don't agree with that, I think everything was staged from start to finish, of course.

One thing I don't understand, though. How would such a site be disinfo? What would be the point?


That's a bit vague Jumpy. I'm not going looking for some possible fakery clown on Youtube. You can't sit on both sides of the fence. To me it's all a bit too convenient, like it was made for the Icke crowd. I'd seriously question where you get your info! So-called "governments" and their propaganda machine known as "the media" are behind these hoaxes. My nose tells me it's the Shayler, Icke and that unspeakable clown whose "brother died on 9/11" dis-info troupe at work here! And this would have been more suitable in the "chat box"!
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby jumpy64 on Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:39 pm

brianv wrote:That's a bit vague Jumpy. I'm not going looking for some possible fakery clown on Youtube. You can't sit on both sides of the fence. To me it's all a bit too convenient, like it was made for the Icke crowd. I'd seriously question where you get your info! So-called "governments" and their propaganda machine known as "the media" are behind these hoaxes. My nose tells me it's the Shayler, Icke and that unspeakable clown whose "brother died on 9/11" dis-info troupe at work here! And this would have been more suitable in the "chat box"!


Look, brianv, I told how I discovered the site just to kindly answer your question, not to upset you. To me it wasn't relevant. I'm not sponsoring the "fakery clown" that made the video. In fact, I didn't even mention him until you asked a specific question, and I did it vaguely just for this reason: I don't think his video is important, and it's in Italian to boot. I don't see any direct or meaningful connection between the author of the video and the crisiscast website. He wasn't sponsoring it, so I don't see the equation "he's a clown, so the site is bogus too" that you seem to make. In my experience, good or at least interesting info doesn't come only from the pure of heart. As I think we all know here, there are morsel of truths to extract even from the disinfo artists.

I could have found the site even by chance surfing the web, it doesn't matter. You can find good pointers anywhere and in any way. I thought this was something interesting, that's all. And if I posted it on the wrong thread, I'm sorry, but that's not for you to decide, I think. Simon or other administrators can move my post wherever they like, if they think it's in the wrong place.

Anyway, not that I want to question your "nose", but you seem to make a lot of assumptions in your post without backing them up with much, if anything. And you haven't answered my question:

How would such a site be disinfo? What would be the point?

Please explain this to me, if you wish. Mine is a sincere, not polemical question.
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby tokyojoe1 on Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:12 pm

jumpy64 wrote:How would such a site be disinfo? What would be the point?

Please explain this to me, if you wish. Mine is a sincere, not polemical question.


As brianv said, it's just too convenient, too obvious, too "perfect". There's no industry jargon or vague descriptions, just straightforward with no need to conceal. In fact it looks like it's written FOR the conspiracy crowd, rather than government. Your BS detectors should go off immediately. Even the domain name has "crisis" in it. This is NOT how the IC or their contractors operate in real life. And the website just "popped up" on Youtube? With public WHOIS credentials?

As for why it would be disinfo? For the same reason any person on planet earth is one click away from a "Sandy Hook crisis actor" video on Youtube. It's the new 9/11 Truth movement. Crisis actors are now in mainstream conspiracy lingo like "NWO", "Illuminati", "inside job". This is more food for the Alex Jones crowd to conclude they've figure it all out. Meanwhile avoiding all discussion of simulated victims, suspects, and environments.

When a "VicSim" computer simulation company creates a website, let me know. By then, the TPTB will have already moved on to their next fakery method.

Edit: I wanted to add that if the father of this Francesca Hunt is a former politician, he would have had a heart attack if he heard about the website his daughter and son-in-law created online. If we are to believe these connections, wouldn't they have gotten into this business with their hybrid acting/government experience? Mark Fisher would have never condoned this. That is, unless.......
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Re: Paris 'Terror attacks' - Friday November 13, 2015

Unread postby brianv on Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:39 pm

What would be the point you ask? You obviously came down in the last shower. To mislead and misdirect of course, and exactly as TokyoJoe says. And I did do a Google search for "crisis actors", and does "crisicast" founded in 2013 come up? No!

Spot on Joe.
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