The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Questions, speculations & updates on the techniques and nature of media fakery
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:29 am

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by MrSinclair » Fri May 24, 2013 3:41 am

Yes thanks Libero, for this and many great contributions. That is such a dense and convoluted narrative, stranger than fiction for sure.

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:06 pm

I stumbled across this gem of a website today brought to us by the good folks at the University of Maryland that should be part of the arsenal of every current or aspiring CluesForum sleuth -- The Global Terrorism database.
The Global Terrorism Database (GTD) is an open-source database including information on terrorist events around the world from 1970 through 2011 (with annual updates planned for the future). Unlike many other event databases, the GTD includes systematic data on domestic as well as international terrorist incidents that have occurred during this time period and now includes more than 104,000 cases.
Go ahead and track the historical actions of your desired terrorist organization -- Its all there. Black and White Panthers... Black, White, New World and Symbionese Liberation Armies and Fronts . In fact, here's a bit of trivia -- I counted no fewer than 238 organizations worldwide containing "Liberation" in the name of the organization. The ALF (Animal Liberation Front) and ELF (Earth Liberation Front) look to have been especially busy since 9/11.

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:15 pm

In revisiting the President Ford assassination attempt in 1975, we know that 2 people were reported to have tried to assassinate President Ford within 17 days of each other -- the first being Lynnette “Squeaky” Fromme, a Manson girl and the second, Sara Jane Moore, an employee of Hearst and admitted informant for the FBI. Reports say that a second bullet fired from Moore's gun would have hit Ford if a 33 year old ex-marine named Oliver Sipple hadn't stepped in to grab her arm and deflect the shot. Here are a few excerpts about Oliver Sipple from his wiki:
...Sipple, who was closeted in his hometown of Detroit had met Harvey Milk back in New York and had participated in San Francisco's gay pride parades and gay rights demonstrations. Sipple was active in local causes, including the historic political campaigns of openly gay City Council candidate Milk. The two were friends and Sipple would also be later described as a "prominent figure" in the gay community who had worked in a gay bar and was active in the Imperial Court System.
Though he was known to be gay among members of the gay community, and had even participated in Gay Pride events, Sipple's sexual orientation was a secret from his family. He asked the press to keep his sexuality off the record, making it clear that neither his mother nor his employer knew he was gay. The national spotlight was on him immediately, and Harvey Milk responded. While discussing whether the truth about Sipple's sexuality should be disclosed, Milk told a friend: "It's too good an opportunity. For once we can show that gays do heroic things, not just all that caca about molesting children and hanging out in bathrooms." Milk reportedly outed Sipple as a "gay hero" to San Francisco Chronicle's columnist Herb Caen in hopes to "break the stereotype of homosexuals" of being "timid, weak and unheroic figures"
Ford was said to be thankful of Sipple's heroics, but once Sipple was outed as being gay by Harvey Milk, Ford apparently shied away from offering any sort of heroic ceremony or extending a White House invitation of any sort. ... lpres.html

Sidenote: Coincidentally, this event occured within a few weeks after Leonard Matlovich self-outed himself and was featured on the cover of Time magazine.


Harvey Milk eventually moves on on to win a supervisor position in San Francisco. Of course, many may remember how less than a year later down the road, Milk is reported to have been killed along with San Francisco Mayor George Moscone by an ex military/policeman/fireman named Dan White with new mayor and future senator Diane Feinstein bearing witness, and this event occurring a mere one week after the reported Jonestown event. (Jones, Moscone, and Milk were all evidently good pals at one point. In fact, here is Harvey Milk penning a note to then President Carter defending Jim Jones. Additionally curious is that Diane Feinstein, in her life experiences, is said to have witnessed not only this event but additionally a separate shooting event in a market where she saw 'brain matter all over the wall' and would additionally be a victim of an attempted bombing by a terrorist group called the New World Liberation Front. The bomb, however apparently did not go off that evening because it was reported to have been too cold, but that's a different story. ^_^ )

Back to the Dan White trial -- In skipping the dreary details, this would eventually end with Dan White not being convicted of murder but of the far more lenient crime of manslaughter assisted by his lawyer's defense that White had been living on too much sugar and junk food the preceding weeks leading up to the shooting, a trial eventually sweetly referred to as “The Twinkie Defense.” In reaction to the verdict, riots were said to ensue including many gay participants now known as the “White Night riots.

Milk would eventually posthumously receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom. However, his name still has not been entered into the Social Security Death Database.

Unrelated but sort of along the same lines, it appears that Geoffrey F. Bowers, the 'Philadelphia' lawyer that Tom Hanks portrayed, appears to have died at age 33 and does not appear to be in the SSDI either.

As a final interesting point to note, Leonard Matlovich profiled above, along with Randy Shilts, a freelance reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle as well as for San Francisco Bay Area television stations and who was additionally the author of "The Mayor of Castro Street: The Life and Times of Harvey Milk" -- it seems that both would eventually become yet two more media connected folks reported as having died from AIDS.

Randy Shilts is not in the SSDI either.
Last edited by Libero on Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:29 am

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by MrSinclair » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:21 am

Thanks for another great post Libero. Your recounting of things jibes pretty much with how I remember all of these events. Diane Feinstein, someone I always found revolting going back to her days as an SF Supervisor did not witness the shootings but was in her office nearby and witnessed the aftermath. She sure stepped up for the cameras after the murders and made her play for fame, I remember thinking at the time that she benefited greatly from it. I remember how little press and followup the "New World Liberation Front" got and if anything seems falsely staged for political gain it was them and their shitty bomb...

Other than his non appearance in the SSDI I have no reason to think Milk and also Moscone were not both murdered that day although it is something to consider. Would Milk have been complicit in his own staged death to create an iconic gay martyr? My best guess is no as he seemed to be more concerned with SF political power building and having a gay old time...He loved being in public and out and amongst people. Back then even straight couples knew that his store was the one safe place to bring intimate photos for development and printing.

As for Sipple he got a lot of press in SF for that and achieved some local fame (of a sort I'd have no interest in the details or rewards of...)

The Dan White trial and the manslaughter conviction resulted in some rioting, some friends of friends who got caught up in it stopped by my building and recounted the events that very evening. Some burnt and overturned police cars was the worst of it. Dan White was like the Hitler of Castro St and there was partying in the streets years later after his alleged suicide.

It all seems like the good old days to me now...

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:44 pm


You, of course may be right regarding Harvey Milk but I found it interesting to note in his wiki that Castro Camera appears to have shut down approximately a month prior to his assassination, supposedly due to the bad economy (operation near completion?) Another thing that may alter your opinion might be further investigation into the Coroner who testified in the Dan White trial and who has also been involved in a few other quite dramatic events in the bay area (101 California Street shooting allegedly involving a bunch of attorneys, 14 total victims, and eventually leading to the passage of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act and the now expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban comes to mind.) I also looked a bit more into the letter that Milk supposedly sent President Carter that I highlighted in my previous post, and the wiki of the subject involved that Milk writes about in Jones' defense raises a bunch more WTF's for me -- none likely more "oh, of course!" than finding out that some affiliated with the Black Panthers that I mentioned a few pages back in this thread were also allegedly involved in doing radio broadcasts to Jonestown. Also, Dan White's previous occupations, along with the fact that he appears to be another valedictorian, super good citizen hero-type to me has me wondering what the heck would have snapped in him as I wondered what would have made Manson snap in the very beginning of this thread. It seems to me that San Francisco was super 'Spooky' in the 70's for whatever reason.

And in event you may wonder if they would invent a story including a gay martyr, don't forget the one about one of the Flight 93 'Let's Roll boys' , Mark Bingham(also not in SSDI.) And, another hero they chose to make gay but in this case, survived, was the bloodless Daniel Hernandez Jr. in the Gabriel Giffords event who currently appears to be pursuing a path into politics.


Regarding your last statement, it's precisely why I don't bother trying to point out fakery to others outside of this forum much anymore unless they seem really bothered by something that they have heard in the news. I'm sure in the grand scheme, they have that figured out as part of the psych ops too as to how we humans naturally react to each other.
Last edited by Libero on Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:29 am

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by MrSinclair » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:51 pm

Given the long planning cycle these forces employ and their demonstrated creation of far larger scams it is obvious they would have the motive, means and opportunity to create a fake Milk martyr for the masses to swallow. It is clear that Milk's death has been one of the catalysts for the current gay positive agenda so at the least it has been exploited. I lived in and around the Castro district and knew many people there. Based on that I would say that today's gay political agenda does not in any way seem to have sprung from grassroots efforts at that epicenter for expanded sexual consciousness but rather from a top down decision by more traditional and well established powers. Just an observation...

At the time of the alleged assassinations a good job was done of portraying the pressures weighing on Dan White that might have caused him to "snap". He had bought that stupid little potato stand at Pier 39 and was losing money running it not to mention the time pressures of that type of service business. The Supervisors job paid very little, more like a part time salary but was quite time consuming. He had a wife and at least one kid, maybe another on the way and being Irish Catholic the expectation was for a large family . So he resigned from his Supervisor position, a clear non-starter in terms of salary. Then the pressure from Feinstein and the downtown forces to reacquire his seat, clearly with some suggestion of financial support to help him get by. For a moment it seemed as if Moscone might be in agreement to him doing so, it was his call as Mayor, but he quickly rejected the notion as politically they were worlds apart. Nonetheless he welcomed White in for a meeting, one that White came to armed. He allegedly snapped due to Moscone's patronizing attitude and a smirk from Milk. The twinkies were used to help create a portrait of him as unstable and lacking in clear judgement, and on this point I agree, toxic crap... If this story was a fraud it was a very well created one as the narrative held together rather well with no oddities or major contradictions creeping into it. The public beneficiaries were Feinstein in particular, Randy Shilts, Cleve Jones and a few others. Who knows who the hidden beneficiaries of the event are whether real or not...

I remember the 101 California St shooting particularly as I had worked all over the financial district as a temp for awhile. Really though it might as well have happened or been alleged to have happened anywhere as there was no particular local angle to the story for me and I have no idea at all as to its veracity. In the Milk/Moscone/People's Temple days people constantly questioned the nature of events but never questioned whether or not they actually occurred other than the Moon Landing.

I very much appreciate your efforts to revisit this fascinating era and to raise the possibility that media fakery was alive and well at the time. Considering media fakery in cases where one has long established memories, beliefs and assumptions is a very different and quite interesting experience. In the case of the Milk shooting I'm open to the possibility but do not yet find

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:14 pm


I totally agree with your assessment in it being a top down decision from the powers that be. The timing of the Matlovitch Time magazine cover looks to be undoubtedly some sort of tell or set up. And the smacks in the face of the Sipple snubbing and ridiculous Dan White verdict look to me to be antagonistic propaganda to the extreme with the apparent desired effect being either added polarization between the gays and straight folks, or perhaps to cause many to become sympathetic to the gay cause as the 'prejudice' was now evidently so transparent. And once again, as in many of the 'assassinations' throughout U.S. history, the verdict also excitedly caused the voters to welcome changes to the law.
CHANGE IN CALIFORNIA LAW: After the jury convicted White of voluntary manslaughter -- the least serious charge for homicide. This caused uproar against the diminished capacity plea in California, and in 1982, voters overwhelmingly approved a proposition to eliminate the defense.

See: 1981 CAL. STAT. ch. 404, effective January 1, 1982.

See: 1982 CAL. STAT. ch. 893, effective January 1, 1983.

Regarding the 101 California Street shooting, with the knowledge that we have currently gained about the current psych ops and are now able to pick them apart in real time by the info the media provides, how familiar and at the same time somewhat silly do some of these statements from the LA Times article from back then seem now about the event?

Shortly after she was wounded and her husband and seven other people were killed in July by a crazed gunman in a San Francisco high-rise, Michelle Scully concluded that she had to do something about the proliferation of assault weapons.
The 27-year-old attorney embarked on a personal lobbying mission to get Congress to ban high-powered semiautomatic weapons, a quest that brought her face to face with about 40 senators.
On July 1, Scully was doing research on the 33rd floor of her husband's law firm of Pettit & Martin when the gunman, Gian Luigi Ferri, began shooting.
Within a week of the shooting, Michelle Scully and her husband's family set up the John and Michelle Scully Fund, whose goal was to enact handgun control legislation and to educate youths about the culture of guns and violence. In mid-October, they flew to Washington for three days to lobby Congress in support of the Brady gun control bill and an assault weapons ban.
John and Michelle Scully had been classmates of Doug Boxer, son of Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), at the University of San Francisco. Doug Boxer helped arrange a meeting with First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Mrs. Clinton "warned us about the opposition and not to underestimate their tactics," Scully said. " . . . She was very supportive of our efforts and very committed to gun control." ... ntrol-bill

Immediately after the shooting event allegedly occurred at the law firm, the Legal Community Against Violence was formed. More work and $$$$ for the lawyers, no doubt ....
LCAV formed in the wake of the July 1, 1993 massacre at a law firm in downtown San Francisco. On that date, a gunman armed with several weapons, including a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol, shot 14 people at the law firm of Pettit and Martin at 101 California Street in San Francisco before turning a gun on himself. In response, Bay Area lawyers established LCAV

...(LCAV) is a national public interest law center dedicated to preventing gun violence. LCAV provides legal assistance to elected officials, government attorneys and activists across the United States to promote effective, legally defensible laws and policies to reduce gun violence. LCAV also educates the public via print publications and media outreach about gun laws and gun control. The organization has been active in promoting gun control ordinances in California and elsewhere, as well as conducting litigation to defend gun control laws against challenges. ... t_Violence

Here we have them discussing the Virginia Tech shooting. Looks like Doug Boxer, Barbara's son and friend of one of the victims is on the board of LCAV, or whatever they call it these days. Surprise, surprise on both notes. ... 564935.php

Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:29 am

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by MrSinclair » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:07 am

I think you are really on to something with the 101. It is interesting that a crime like this is rarely mentioned in the annals of true crime reporting. With such a high death count it would be a natural for a cheap true crime book and yet it barely garnered an article or two. Meanwhile it was being used to drive an agenda of a type we have grown all too familiar with since then.
For that matter and to reference the title of this thread why have so few books been published in recent years regarding the "dead" of 911. To quote an old line "It too quiet out there Sarge, I don't like it" or to quote a cheesy rock ballad its all just "dust in the wind"... If it were a real event with real dead we would be hearing vehemently from their survivors on every occasion of possible support of Al Quieda by any agency of the US government yet we hear nothing. Why should fake survivors of fake dead care about funding for a fake organization? : :huh:

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:10 am

Presidential Pardon (my psyop?) -- Patty Hearst, Bill Clinton's brother, Susan McDougal, "Scooter Libby", My Lai Massacre's William Calley, George Steinbrenner, Jimmy Hoffa... even the "Whiskey Rebellion" boys across two Presidencies early on in the country's formation. And more. Many more.

Edit: Isn't this an interesting item to note from the wiki of the "Whiskey Rebellion"...
Soon after the Whiskey Rebellion, actress-playwright Susanna Rowson wrote a stage musical about the insurrection entitled "The Volunteers", with music by composer Alexander Reinagle. The play is now lost, but the songs survive, and suggest that Rowson's interpretation was pro-Federalist. The musical celebrated the militiamen who put down the rebellion, the "volunteers" of the title, as American heroes. President Washington and Martha Washington attended a performance of the play in Philadelphia in January 1795. ... ted_States

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:35 pm

Interesting numbers, number combos and follow-the-photographer silliness are among items that pop up in the highly publicized kidnapping case of Jaycee Dugard from a few years back.
Jaycee Lee Dugard was kidnapped on June 10, 1991, in South Lake Tahoe, California. Dugard was 11 years old at the time and was abducted from a street while she was walking from home to a school bus stop.
Garrido, 58, and his wife Nancy Garrido, 54, of Antioch, California, were arrested for kidnapping and other charges. On April 28, 2011, they pleaded guilty to Dugard's kidnapping and sexual assault. Law enforcement officers believe Dugard was kept in a concealed area behind Garrido's house in Antioch for 18 years. During this time, Dugard bore two daughters who were ages 11 and 15 at the time of her reappearance. On June 2, 2011, Phillip Garrido was sentenced to 431 years imprisonment; his wife received 36 years to life.
Here's an article from People magazine titled "Jaycee Dugard: Her First Account of Kidnapping" where she begins to tell her story of her 18 year ordeal in captivity. Nick Ut, AP photographer credited with the famous "Napalm Girl" photo from the Vietnam war era looks to be credited with a photo in this article. Interestingly, the picture appears to be sourced from 1991 -- the year of the alleged kidnapping. Are we to assume the Nick knew Jaycee prior to the kidnapping and that his "media photographer Spidey sense" told him something was gonna happen? :)

Jaycee Lee Dugard in 1991
Nick Ut/AP

Three weeks after her release, Jaycee Dugard made a request to gain control of the pets that were raised in the home where she was held captive. On October 14, 2009, People published on its cover the first verified photo of Jaycee Dugard as an adult. Her mother, Terry Probyn, was reported in 2009 to have planned with Broadway Books to publish a book, originally set for release in 2010, detailing Dugard's decades-long absence and return. Dugard's memoir, A Stolen Life, was published on July 12, 2011, by Simon & Schuster.
During the 18 years she was held captive, Jaycee Dugard made a list of the things she wished to do in her life. Among them was write a bestselling book — and it’s one of several items she’s crossed off her list as she’s reclaimed her freedom after finally being found by authorities in 2009.

Date of Simon & Schuster’s publication of the first edition of the memoir “Jaycee Dugard: A Stolen Life.”

Total number of pages in the hard cover edition of the book.

Copies of the book sold on the day of publication.

Number of weeks spent on the New York Times bestseller list.

1.6 million
The number of copies — including hardcover, trade paperback and ebook editions — presently in circulation. ... e-numbers/

Hmm. Those are some nice reported numbers in addition to the following reported payout from the state of California for, evidently, dropping the ball:
In July 2010, the State of California approved a $20 million settlement with Jaycee Dugard, to compensate her for "various lapses by the Corrections Department [which contributed to] Dugard's continued captivity, ongoing sexual assault and mental and/or physical abuse.", ... 52,00.html ... Lee_Dugard

For a bit more entertainment, here's a video discussing a few other of the kidnappers' 'reprehensible activities' reportedly caught on their own personal video camera along with commentary following from Dr. J. Buzz Von Ornsteiner, aka Dr. Buzz, a prior "consistent face in a number of 1980s slasher films" turned forensic psychologist and current "regular expert analyst commenting on current high profile criminal cases."

full link:

Finally, here's an interesting point noted by at least one blogger regarding Jaycee's resemblance to another well known and highly publicized kidnapping victim, Elizabeth Smart. Elizabeth would eventually become a commentator for ABC News, focusing primarily on missing persons.
Jaycee Dugard and Elizabeth Smart resemble each other enough to be sisters. How is it that these two lovely young women could have endured horrors beyond our imaginations, and still remain so fresh-faced and cheerful?
How is it, indeed! :D For the record, I searched the internet for a photo of the "girls" appearing together and could not find any. Since they are so strikingly alike in appearance and are reported to share a somewhat similar life experience, one might think it a good opportunity for a photo-op. <_<

Image ... smart.html

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Tue May 13, 2014 6:48 pm

Here are a few updates regarding the the Paul Walker event, most of which previously covered content can be found in the Cluesforum topic The "CHATBOX." ... r#p2388472

Lots of recognizable numbers and number combinations jump out in this article regarding the investigators' conclusions.
The Porsche carrying "Fast & Furious" star Paul Walker was traveling up to 94 (13)mph ...

The sports car driven by Roger Rodas slammed into a light pole with a 45 (9) mph speed limit sign...

Based on post-crash calculations, accident reconstruction specialists with the Highway Patrol believe Rodas was driving his 2005 Porsche Carrera GT between 81 (9) mph and 94 (13) mph... (94-81 = 13)

Post-crash investigators noted several issues with the condition of the car, which logged just 3,333 (33 2 times) miles as of September...

left front and right rear tires were about nine (9) years old...

Rodas, 38 (11), and Walker, 40, had taken what was supposed to be a quick ride ... lker-crash

It looks like Rodas' supposed widow has filed a lawsuit against Porsche now and has hired the well known celebrity attorney Mark Geragos to represent. Here's a short bit about Geragos:
Clients that he represented include Michael Jackson, actress Winona Ryder, politician Gary Condit, Susan McDougal and Scott Peterson. He was also involved in the Whitewater controversy. Geragos represented suspended NASCAR driver Jeremy Mayfield, Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal, two brothers injured after a tiger escaped in San Francisco Zoo, and musician Chris Brown, who pleaded guilty in the assault of his then girlfriend Rihanna.
The lawsuit contends that the right rear tire suddenly steered to the left and that despite the efforts of Rodas, a veteran race car driver, the vehicle continued a clockwise movement before climbing the curb, swiping a tree and then hitting a light pole and a second tree.

The car then hit a third tree on the passenger side, causing the vehicle to split and catch fire. ... story.html
Perhaps somebody should contact Porsche to view my actual pictures taken at the crash site, skid marks and all to know that the above theory of the described situation is extremely unlikely if not impossible. :rolleyes: :D I personally would still love to know how those big beefy tires could possibly have made such light, skinny skid marks. And of course, it appears that they indicate a direct course into the light post for whatever made them -- the car would needed to either have traveled straight into the light post (not indicated by lack of damage to the front hood) or the car would apparently have been traveling sideways already for quite a lengthy stretch of road. Of course if anyone else sees evidence that I'm not seeing -- tire marks produced by a clockwise spinning car or a tree that could have been "swiped" prior to contact with the light post, feel free to chime in!

In the court case, will they question as to how the pipe fixture visible in both the Google Maps picture and in one that I took stayed intact as this car was implied to have slid along that thin stretch of dirt while finally wrapping itself around that rather skinny looking tree? I imagine not.


Google Maps photo


Media images of car (notice hood and lack of damage)


Media photo of scene on morning following the event
Image ... che-526708

Here's another one from the next morning taken at a different angle (not sourced but obtained from a commenter to the story from this website ... explained/). Man, that car must've hit the one tree so hard that it caused the top of the tree to just snap right off and leave the stump behind!! :P In the picture I took above, it looks like by the time I had arrived, someone had already begun to decorate the stump. :D
Last edited by Libero on Mon May 19, 2014 6:10 am, edited 10 times in total.

Posts: 5061
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:24 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Wed May 14, 2014 3:44 am

I feel like we should start a whole new section called "CluesForum Reports!" featuring on the ground real reporting from members. Would anyone else be for this?

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:18 pm

Which alleged criminal mastermind has the best advice for gun control and general police practices? <_<

John Warnock Hinckley
Cluesforum topic : Reagan Assassination Attempt
From CNN transcript: Crimes of the Century: Reagan Assassination Attempt
During Reagan's second term, Jim and Sarah Brady became vocal supporters of gun control legislation. Their efforts paid off in 1993 with the signing of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act. It required federal background checks on commercial sales of handguns to individuals.

Unfortunately, the Brady Bill came too late for John W. Hinckley. Several months after the shooting, his father asked him what might have stopped him. Hinckley replied, maybe if I had to wait a while to buy a gun, had to fill out forms or get a permit first, or sign in with the police or anything complicated, I probably wouldn't have done it. ... se.02.html

Christopher Dorner
Cluesforum topic: Christopher Dorner Manhunt
From his manifesto.
If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save
lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a
suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized
in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don’t give me that
crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That’s bullshit because troops who carry
the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in
contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn’t even 1% in combat. So in essence,
the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily
as walking to your local Walmart or striking the enter key on your keyboard to “add to cart”. All the
firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private
party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations
or FFL’s. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a
background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust
account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them
legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a
NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR’s,
and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker
program? The answer is NO. I’m not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just
wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID.
Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such
as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the
ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a fucking silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR
AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls,
Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault
weapons ban needs to be re- instituted. Period!!!

Mia Farrow said it best. “Gun control is no longer debatable, it’s not a conversation, its a moral mandate.”

Sen. Feinstein, you are doing the right thing in leading the re-institution of a national AWB. Never again
should any public official state that their prayers and thoughts are with the family. That has become
cliche’ and meaningless. Its time for action. Let this be your legacy that you bestow to America. Do not be
swayed by obstacles, antagaonist, and naysayers. Remember the innocent children at Austin, Kent,
Stockton, Fullerton, San Diego, Iowa City, Jonesboro, Columbine, Nickel Mines, Blacksburg, Springfield,
Red Lake, Chardon, Aurora, and Newtown. Make sure this never happens again!!!
In my cache you will find several small arms. In the cache, Bushmaster firearms, Remington precision
rifles, and AAC Suppressors (silencers). All of these small arms are manufactured by Cerberus/Freedom
Group. The same company responsible for the Portland mall shooting, Webster , NY, and Sandy Hook
massacre. ... ifesto.pdf

Elliott Rodger
Cluesforum topic: "Elliot Rodger Santa Barbara murder rampage"
From his manifesto.
After only a week passed since I uploaded those videos on Youtube, I heard a knock on my apartment
door. I opened it to see about seven police officers asking for me. As soon as I saw those cops, the
biggest fear I had ever felt in my life overcame me. I had the striking and devastating fear that someone
had somehow discovered what I was planning to do, and reported me for it. If that was the case, the
police would have searched my room, found all of my guns and weapons, along with my writings about
what I plan to do with them. I would have been thrown in jail, denied of the chance to exact revenge on
my enemies. I can’t imagine a hell darker than that. Thankfully, that wasn’t the case, but it was so close.
Apparently, someone saw my videos and became instantly suspicious of me. They called some sort of
health agency, who called the police to check up on me. The police told me it was my mother who called
them, but my mother told me it was the health agency. My mother had watched the videos and was
very disturbed by them. I don’t suppose I’ll ever know the full truth of who called the police on me. The
police interrogated me outside for a few minutes, asking me if I had suicidal thoughts. I tactfully told
them that it was all a misunderstanding, and they finally left. If they had demanded to search my room…
That would have ended everything. For a few horrible seconds I thought it was all over. When they left,
the biggest wave of relief swept over me. It was so scary. ... -World.pdf

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:39 am

Silly Shoe bomber and Underwear bomber... Didn't you know this fact about plastic explosives before you attempted your daring feats of terrorism? And shouldn't your respective attorneys and judges for your trials have known this as well?

...Just as with other explosives, you need to apply some energy to C-4 to kick off the chemical reaction. Because of the stabilizer elements, it takes a considerable shock to set off this reaction; lighting the C-4 with a match will just make it burn slowly, like a piece of wood (in Vietnam, soldiers actually burned C-4 as an improvised cooking fire). Even shooting the explosive with a rifle won't trigger the reaction. Only a detonator, or blasting cap will do the job properly.
A detonator is just a smaller explosive that's relatively easy to set off. An electrical detonator, for example, uses a brief charge to set off a small amount of explosive material. When somebody triggers the detonator (by transmitting the charge through detonator cord to a blasting cap, for example), the explosion applies a powerful shock that triggers the C-4 explosive material.

It makes one wonder if the much larger diesel/fertilizer bombs are even a sound science as it apparently demands such a precise recipe. And after all, diesel fuel is a combustible, not a flammable.

Can anyone spot a 9 meter by eight foot deep hole in the photo as shown in the diagram?

Image ... 5uUXfldU8I ... otos-6.htm ... -work.html

Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Many Things That Make You Go Hmm...

Unread post by Libero » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:56 pm

What do I gotta do to get elected here???

The reputed "fair" and "liberal" judge from Alabama, George Wallace would put that exact question to the test at the beginning of his run for Governor in 1958. Backed with support of the NAACP, Wallace's first run for office would be lost by a wide margin to his opponent, state attorney general John Malcolm Patterson who had the backing of the notorious Ku Klux Klan on his side.
After the election, aide Seymore Trammell recalled Wallace saying, "Seymore, you know why I lost that governor's race? ... I was outniggered by John Patterson. And I'll tell you here and now, I will never be outniggered again."

In the wake of his defeat, Wallace "made a Faustian bargain," said Emory University professor Dan Carter. "In order to survive and get ahead politically in the 1960s, he sold his soul to the devil on race." He adopted a hard-line segregationist stance and used this stand to court the white vote in the next gubernatorial election in 1962. When a supporter asked why he started using racist messages, Wallace replied, "You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about niggers, and they stomped the floor."

According to the Merriam-Webster corporation, "nigger" contains multiple possible definitions:

1 usually offensive; see usage paragraph below : a black person

2 usually offensive; see usage paragraph below : a member of any dark-skinned race

3 a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons <it's time for somebody to lead all of America's niggers … all the people who feel left out of the political process — Ron Dellums>

Wikipedia additionally provides information to the word's origin for those interested.

Ahh, what sweet music to the ears of the bigoted electorate. Wallace's second run at office in '62, now with the backing of the Ku Klux Klan would prove successful. His inaugural speech included the line for which, according to his wiki, he is best known. (The Wiki also strangely credits this single sentence to his new speech writer, KKK leader and later famed western novelist Asa Earl Carter. More on Carter to follow.)

“ In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. ” ... -campaigns

Perhaps the highest profile event which occurred during Wallace's first term of Governorship and eventually would become known as the "Stand in the Schoolhouse Door" took place at the University of Alabama on June 11, 1963.

A bit of background first...

On May 17, 1954, the Supreme Court of the United States handed down its decision regarding the case called Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas, in which the plaintiffs charged that the education of black children in separate public schools from their white counterparts was unconstitutional. Brown v. Board of Education meant that the University of Alabama had to be desegregated. In the years following, hundreds of African-Americans applied for admission, but all were denied. The University worked with police to find any disqualifying qualities, or when this failed, intimidated the applicants. But in 1963, three African-Americans with perfect qualifications—Vivian Malone Jones, Dave McGlathery and James Hood—applied, refusing to be intimidated. In early June a federal district judge ordered that they be admitted, and forbade Governor Wallace from interfering.
On June 11, Malone and Hood arrived to register. Wallace, attempting to uphold his promise as well as for political show, blocked the entrance to Foster Auditorium with the media watching. Then, flanked by federal marshals, Deputy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach told Wallace to step aside. However, Wallace cut Katzenbach off and refused, giving a speech on States' rights. Katzenbach called President John F. Kennedy, who federalized the Alabama National Guard. General Henry Graham then commanded Wallace to step aside, saying, "Sir, it is my sad duty to ask you to step aside under the orders of the President of the United States." Wallace then spoke further, but eventually moved, and Malone and Hood registered as students.

Mentioned in Wallace's wiki -- "Some of this display was arranged for the public; Robert F. Kennedy, the Attorney General, had been in touch with Wallace behind the scenes to arrange some of the events."
Certainly, one can see from the photographs that the media was quite well represented at the event.


And as often happens when perusing the annals of history, this one appears to have a somewhat fairy tale-ish ironic twist. The same Vivian Malone Jones (now deceased) who was the first black female admitted to the University of Alabama, also happens to be the sister-in-law of the first black Attorney General of the United States, Eric Holder.

Sidenote -- If one wasn't a youngster back when to have witnessed the televised event regarding the "Stand in the Schoolhouse Door", they may have instead more recently been introduced to it via either the film "Forrest Gump" (1994) or through the television movie "George Wallace" (1997). Both features curiously starred actor Gary Sinise and the latter was directed by Robert Kennedy's chauffeur to the Ambassador Hotel on his alleged fateful assassination eve, John Frankenheimer. "Forrest" also happens to play a part in both features. While it is possibly an ironic humorous spin within the movie "Forrest Gump" that the main character happens to be named after the alleged founder of the Ku Klux Klan, Nathan Bedford Forrest, it turns out that the alleged writer that penned the famous sentence in Wallace's speech above also happens to have ghostwritten under the same name "Forrest" as tribute for the same reason. If interested to do more research, you'll find in Asa Earl Carter's wiki that drama ensues later in his career with Oprah Winfrey and her book club among other miscellaneous exploits...

Democratic presidential primaries of 1972 and assassination attempt

A "moderate" change...
On January 13, 1972, Wallace declared himself a Democratic candidate, entering the field with George McGovern, 1968 nominee Hubert Humphrey, and nine other Democratic opponents. In Florida's primary, Wallace carried every county to win 42 percent of the vote; another of his opponents was John V. Lindsay, the liberal mayor of New York, who had switched from Republican affiliation to enter the Democratic presidential primaries. In the 1972 campaign, Wallace announced that he no longer supported segregation and had always been a "moderate" on racial matters.

For the next four months, Wallace's campaign proceeded well. On May 15, 1972, he was shot five times by Arthur Bremer while campaigning at the Laurel Shopping Center in Laurel, Maryland, at a time when he was receiving high ratings in national opinion polls. Bremer was seen at a Wallace rally in Wheaton, earlier that day and two days earlier at a rally in Dearborn, outside Detroit, Michigan. He hit Wallace in the abdomen and chest, and one of the bullets lodged in Wallace's spinal column, leaving him paralyzed from the waist down for the rest of his life. A five-hour operation was needed that evening, and Wallace had to receive several pints of blood in order to survive. Three others were wounded in the shooting and also survived.

full link:

{sigh} Sometimes forever seems a very short time, or, perhaps ideals simply change with the times. :)
In the late 1970s, Wallace announced that he was a born-again Christian and apologized to black civil rights leaders for his past actions as a segregationist. He said that while he had once sought power and glory, he realized he needed to seek love and forgiveness. In 1979, Wallace said of his stand in the schoolhouse door: "I was wrong. Those days are over, and they ought to be over."

This is one of the few high profile alleged American political assassinations/attempts not touched on thus far on Cluesforum, but can we ascertain if it was "real?"

The alleged assassin's writing compilation "An Assassin's Diary" was published and allegedly had possible ties to E. Howard Hunt. The diary was said to have inspired the film "Taxi Driver." The film "Taxi Driver" then became inspiration for the Ronald Reagan assassination attempt. These are yet just a few of the "hmm's" encountered in the Wallace story.

But, as always, it's up to the independent-minded researcher to absorb and to process. ... house_Door

Related Cluesforum links of possible interest:

The Robert F. Kennedy "assassination" --
Reagan Assassination Attempt, US 1981 --
The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. --
Was J.F.K. murdered? --
Last edited by Libero on Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:43 am, edited 8 times in total.

Post Reply