Strange stories of The Beatles

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lux
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by lux »

fbenario wrote: Another oddity of this situation is that the period when The Beatles produced the most revolutionary, new music, in so many different ways, is after 1966. Their stuff beforehand was much more of the I Want To Hold Your Hand very basic pop, and the post-66 material was much more complex. Could it be possible the replacements had more musical creativity and originality than the original 4 who became so famous?

I agree that the earlier material was mostly love songs, quite a difference from the later recordings. As to which is better -- musical tastes and opinions vary.

IMO the last true "Beatles album" was Revolver, released in August 1966. Many believe it to be one of the greatest musical achievements in history. I don't know about that but I hold it in very high regard and consider it the best Beatles album.

"Yesterday," recorded in 1965 is one of the most recorded songs in history, was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame and been voted the #1 pop song of all time. Not my favorite but enormously popular.

I don't know how to measure creativeness but I think the earlier material has made a more lasting impression on the public than the later stuff, though I don't mean to knock the later stuff. For example, I think Abbey Road is very, very good. On the other hand I don't think much of Magical Mystery Tour and some of the White Album.

It's possible that some of the post-66 music was still written by the original Lennon/McCartney/Harrison. Song writers often have a quantity of unpublished or unrecorded work in their files.
joey
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by joey »

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Last edited by joey on Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Maat
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by Maat »

lux wrote:I did not say such a thing as this ...
Maat wrote:Lux, can you explain why you don't believe it's possible that an intelligent but immature larrikin with prodigious talent could mature and change his behavior and style in any way?
That was just my natural question prompted by what you wrote:
"John" also had important behavioral & personality differences before and after 1966. The original John Lennon had an acerbic wit and a prankster mentality. He was a genius but not particularly a nice guy (e.g., his infamous "Jesus" comment and frequent insults). He was also a writer of several books. The post 1966 "John" wrote no books and had a completely different personality, more of a "peace-nik" and "Free Love" proponent -- nothing like the original. John Lennon also had a distinctive stance whenever he performed while playing guitar which suddenly disappeared and was never seen again after 1966. You can see it in many early Beatle vids on YouTube. Not an easy habit to break for a musician.
So 'normal' people can mature and change their behavior, style etc. without being assumed to be 'imposters', but not John Lennon?
... nor have I made a particular point of ..
"As for their sounding crappy live ..."
... so I can't comment on those things.
That was my inference from their decision to stop playing concerts and, as you said, the Candlestick Park one had "received more than a few bad reviews." Also that "they then suddenly stopped playing live concerts citing 'we can't hear ourselves play because of the screaming girls' (yeah, what a pain that must be for guys in their twenties)"...Why would serious musicians of any age not want their music properly heard?
As for your comment on a hypothesis regarding how it is done, I would ask you: Do you really need to know how the magician 'saws the lady in half' to know that he does not really saw the lady in half? In other words if you don't know how he does it, does that mean it must be done by magic?

Or, if I don't explain how NASA faked Apollo astronaut voice transmissions coming from the Moon does that mean they really went there?
Sorry, I can't see how those are relevant analogies. Creating visual and aural illusions with psychological trickery, sleight of hand and/or film fakery has no equivalence to supposedly duplicating a physical person with unique features, persona, personal history and relationships in reality.

I'm simply trying to understand how you believe such a thing is possible and why.
I am not a cosmetic surgeon nor a geneticist and I can't give you the details of how the tricks of replacements are done. I suspect a combination of methods are used. This may include surgery. It may also include the use of lookalikes, twins or siblings. It may even include genetic technology that is not publicly known. These are among the speculations which I am considering. Cloning, we are told, is a reality at least in some forms. So are other genetic manipulations -- genetically modified plants and animals have become an everyday part of human life (unfortunately), for example. And, secret research and technologies in many fields do evidently exist -- sometimes we find out about them later and sometimes we don't [...]
It wasn't long ago, for example, that the idea of an aircraft being invisible to radar was considered sci-fi. At least until such aircraft began dropping bombs on Iraq about 20 years ago. Now we're told they have or will soon have aircraft that are invisible to human sight as well.
Actually, real breakthrough discoveries in science, technology etc. begin in the private sector, commercial enterprise, not government controlled anything. The perfect example is that "stealth bomber" which took 20 years to develop under government control and even then can barely fly, needing computers to constantly correct its instability.

But this Beatle thing is about something claimed to have been done in 1966! :huh:
All I can say is that after a considerable amount of study I feel certain that a "magic trick" has been performed as regards The Beatles and after 1966 they were not the same people. But, again, this is something that is hard or perhaps impossible to prove and I have no desire to try. IMO it's one of those things you have to look at yourself and make your own decision about. I did supply a link above to some scientific evidence (the Italian Wired article translation) that supports the idea that PM was replaced but, again, the "how" is not known.
Lux, there are plenty of things we may see that only appear peculiar because we don't know and can't see all the real facts behind them. :)

But is that second-hand, agenda-driven commentary on some Italian Wired magazine article that no longer exists really supposed to be a 'serious' analysis? :blink:
All based on the dubious opinions of a couple of obscure Italians (allegedly an IT guy & a "medico-legal") with even more dubious government & media associations, using only "two photos dated before 1966 and two after 1967", plus the already disproved allegations of some German claiming to be his illegitimate daughter for money — and that's 'scientific method'! :P

Very goldbug-esque face and ear 'comparisons' from different angled/distanced (admitted "scaled") photos of McCartney — years and decades apart! :rolleyes: (Newsflash: facial muscles + gravity x time = change)

Yeah well, like "Judy Wood" had a Phd <_<
And this [Google trans] is the main reference for that "Gabriella Carlesi" character.
RoyBean
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by RoyBean »

What do ya'll think... perp replaced ?

Images of Sylvester Stewart (aka Sly Stone - from Sly & The Family Stone) from 1974 & 2011)
Image
Exclusive: Sly Stone Talks Rehab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IftRiYvr5Ok
Sly Stone on Mike Douglas '74 part 2 of 3 thebadcause.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmoUuo_bQhQ

check out the star of david he's sporting !
Last edited by RoyBean on Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
reel.deal
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by reel.deal »

Hitler plans and attempts to become a scouser... But will he pass the test?


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L22GdROdW9Q

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhWNt6Ax7t0

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOUnpy1jRzc

The 'Macca' 'mark#2' 'Doppelganger' 'also' plays bass left handed,
& guitar, piano, drums, & is also a multi-instrumentalist;
& also speaks perfect fluent scouse...


Image

:P
RoyBean
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by RoyBean »

Besides, once again that approach deals with the "resemblance" problem: a problem that by definition for its vagueness seems to be unsolvable, and that for this reason is a favorite of all the shills and perps we deal with. So, food for thought there.
Image

I'm not me...I'm not me...not the real McCartney...

Fuckin perps replaced me... I'm not me

:lol:
lux
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by lux »

Maat, as I've said I have no reason to argue or convince anyone. It's something one must look into oneself if one is interested enough. And, as I've also said, I don't blame anyone for not believing it. :)

At least you haven't stooped to the level of childish ridicule which means there is still some hope for you. :P
reel.deal
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Re: Strange stories of Liverpool

Unread post by reel.deal »

Dear lux, no disrespect meant, or intended. i do actually love this thread, & i'm kinda interested in the Lennon slaying. before i ever joined here i spent a lot of time looking at the Hendrix murdered theory, which i think is false, and some time looking at the Kurt Cobain murdered theory, which i think is true. In my High School years i lived about 30 miles from Liverpool, used to go up there quite a bit. It's still a foreign language to me. For Macca to be a doppelganger, who's also a scouser, to me thats one pretty hefty parameter too many to meet, to fit the bill. but anyways, i do still really enjoy this whole PID theory, even if i think its flawed...
Liverpool & its music scene has many many strange stories beyond the Beatles, one of which is a 17yr old Courtney Love rocking up there for a year or so en route to becoming a stripper in Japan. She was the groupie to Julian Cope of The Teardrop Explodes, & most of Echo & The Bunnymen (except 'Echo' - the drum machine). She failed to land the lead role in the Alex Cox movie 'Sid & Nancy', but got a bit-part, but did feature more prominently in Cox's spaghetti Western 'Straight To Hell', with Joe Strummer & The Pogues. In fact Courtney is a vampire, when Kurt Cobain died my neighbor Catherine got an 8 page letter she showed me by Courtney's still husband 'Falling James', singer of L.A. band 'The Leaving Trains', saying what a psycho-bitch she is. Courtney tried to kill Kurt with an 50 rohypnol OD in Rome, then hired the hit that 'whacked' him a month later,
but thats another story...
;)
Maat
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by Maat »

lux wrote:Maat, as I've said I have no reason to argue or convince anyone. It's something one must look into oneself if one is interested enough. And, as I've also said, I don't blame anyone for not believing it. :)

At least you haven't stooped to the level of childish ridicule which means there is still some hope for you. :P
Lux, I am always ready and willing to hear ideas, perceptions and examples from others' experiences before reaching conclusions on anything so extraordinary — but I will also challenge whatever appears dubious or illogical to me. ;)
By the way, as I'm sure you've noticed, humor is often used here to highlight a perspective or make a point and not intended as personal "ridicule" of anyone.

Of course everyone is free to believe whatever they wish. However, when anyone makes a bold assertion regarding any suspiciously popular alternate theory on this forum, they will naturally be expected to explain the reasoning that led to their belief with any verifiable facts and comparative examples. As Hoi says, "exceptional claims require exceptional proofs".

With any strongly held convictions, most are usually more than willing to present all the clues, sources and evidence that led to their conclusion for others' scrutiny, perspectives and feedback. If not, why declare it here at all? :unsure:
lux
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by lux »

Maat wrote: With any strongly held convictions, most are usually more than willing to present all the clues, sources and evidence that led to their conclusion for others' scrutiny, perspectives and feedback.
Sorry, not possible. This is something I spent several years on studying photo, video, audio and other evidence as well as my years of memories of them and the "Beatlemania" phenomenon (I was 14 when that Ed Sullivan Show aired). You'll just have to do your own research I guess (if you are sufficiently interested). It was important to me because they had a significant influence on my life in a number of ways.
If not, why declare it here at all?
When this topic began, before it was moved/renamed it was in the "Chatbox" thread. I was chatting. I also didn't "declare" the topic. It was first brought up by another member and others have expressed agreement in its possibilities besides myself.
Maat
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by Maat »

lux wrote:
Maat wrote: With any strongly held convictions, most are usually more than willing to present all the clues, sources and evidence that led to their conclusion for others' scrutiny, perspectives and feedback.
Sorry, not possible. This is something I spent several years on studying photo, video, audio and other evidence as well as my years of memories of them and the "Beatlemania" phenomenon (I was 14 when that Ed Sullivan Show aired). You'll just have to do your own research I guess (if you are sufficiently interested). It was important to me because they had a significant influence on my life in a number of ways.
If not, why declare it here at all?
When this topic began, before it was moved/renamed it was in the "Chatbox" thread. I was chatting. I also didn't "declare" the topic. It was first brought up by another member and others have expressed agreement in its possibilities besides myself.
So are you saying that if HappyCynic had posted this as a topic first herself, you would not have declared your belief in it? (You were the second to comment and the only one to assert that all 4 Beatles were "replaced".)

But you're right, if one's convictions are not strongly based, it's "not possible" to provide compelling reasons when there's still apparently nothing but exploitative joke 'comparison' sites as any 'research' examples on the subject after all these years. :)
lux
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by lux »

Maat wrote: So are you saying that if HappyCynic had posted this as a topic first herself, you would not have declared your belief in it?
What I said is written above for all to see. I don't know what I would or wouldn't have said had circumstances been different. I haven't thought about it. Someone posted something about it and then I posted something about it and others have posted something about it. It's a thread and that's what happens with threads.
But you're right, if one's convictions are not strongly based, it's "not possible" to provide compelling reasons when there's still apparently nothing but exploitative joke 'comparison' sites as any 'research' examples on the subject after all these years. :)
How could I be "right" about something I never said? :blink:
Maat
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by Maat »

Well, I couldn't find any "PID" proponent sites that didn't use manipulative, misrepresented/misheard "clues" and altered 'photos' (like "plasticmacca" and that "Wired" article 'review'), but there are quite a few Beatles aficionados applying sensible, well researched analyses to expose some of the sillier PID fallacies at least:

Part 1

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCiX2UfpW-k

Part 2:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOtNAASWSRw

Part 3:

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SmpH4uLbnM

And, for those interested in "all things Macca or Beatles related", there's the Macca Fun House forum.

Here's a particularly relevant thread: The Truth About the "Wired" Article (posted April 7, 2009)
SmokingGunII
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by SmokingGunII »

I spent many long hours into the night studying the PID theory within the last year, watching all the "Iamphoney" vids.

There is no doubt it is a fascinating subject and there is also no doubt that the Beatles (beatles) albums/films have hidden messages. Indeed, the "new" McCartney seems to love the occult.

My conclusion was similar to Antipodean's. McCartney was replaced circa 1966 (I don't buy the "death" story) by the current incarnation.

The reason he looks more like the younger McCartney now than post 1967 is due to surgery. The best comparisons are between pre and post 65/66. There are two interviews with McCartney around that time - one from the US tour and another in the UK where he talks about his drug bust and use. I believe these are two different men, with two different voices and demeanours and the 2nd one is most definitely the version that has been knighted. I will try to dig these two vids out later, but if anyone knows the two I am talking about please post as I am too busy with work to start hunting round for them. EDIT: found them.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ydua3F1Ik


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q87_QjYqbMY

It's also worth watching his interview with Letterman in 2008(?). Letterman openly asks him about the replacement rumours. It's worth watching for McCartney's behaviour. I think Maat recently published how to tell if somebody is lying. What "tells" can we gather from McCartney's eyes and rubbing of nose etc?


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT2utvvlHQw

And why did he not attend the funerals of Mal Evans & Lennon? Evans was shot in similar circumstances to Bill Cooper - by local police. Or was it time for him to "disappear"? Watch McCartney's statement regarding the death of Lennon. Not the sort of reaction you would expect from somebody that had been so close to you. Was it because Lennon wasn't murdered? Was ita doppelganger? Was it an elaborate hoax to make Lennon "disappear"?

I have also looked at various photos of JPM with Jane Asher and again, there is evidence IMO that she was in on the charade as she appears with both versions of the character. She has never spoken about her relationship with McCartney and I believe she has links to the Tavistock Institute through her Father - although this is a line that I have never researched, so I stand corrected if this is not the case. This is a good resource for comparisons:

http://www.allstarpics.net/pictures/173 ... -pics.html

The best resource of early Beatles photographs:

http://www.beatlesource.com/savage/main.html
lux
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Re: Strange stories of The Beatles

Unread post by lux »

Maat wrote:Well, I couldn't find any "PID" proponent sites that didn't use manipulative, misrepresented/misheard "clues" ...
I don't consider looking at proponent web sites & contrived videos or reading forum threads to be any sort of serious research. There are proponent web sites and videos about the Apollo Hoax, 9/11, JFK and many other issues which are full of misleading BS. The PID issue is no different except that it has more BS than most.

You'd have to actually directly study the original (where possible) photo, video, audio, interviews and other evidence of the individuals involved to come with any sort of real idea if it is true or not. It is not easy to do and may involve buying books, CDs, DVDs, etc as well. The web material is vanishing and what remains is becoming increasingly altered and useless.

I earlier mentioned a plastic macca web site (meaning Tina Foster's site) because it does have some worthwhile material and links but also much chaff and "clues" material which I consider red herrings. But, for the lazy "researcher" it at least has some good material to get one started.
Last edited by lux on Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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