THE DERAILING ROOM

[DeanHartwell]

Admin notice (simonshack) :Sorry, Dean - we don't do this Fetzer stuff over here. This post of yours (posted in our important "GETTING THE WORD OUT" thread) goes straight into the derailing room.



Dear Simon and Hoi,

To answer the question about the JFK assassination, I first assert that Oswald was innocent:

The shooting allegedly took place at 12:31 PM.
According to Presumed Guilty by Howard Roffman, Mrs. Carolyn Arnold, a secretary, said she saw Oswald on the FIRST floor at around 12:15 PM.
Roffman points out that the President was scheduled to arrive at 12:25, which would give Oswald, assuming he had no knowledge of the motorcade’s delays, ten minutes to go up five flights of stairs and then set up his rifle and sniper’s nest.
Bonnie Ray Williams, by Commissioner Gerald Ford’s account in his book, Portrait of the Assassin, was at the sixth floor and left there without seeing Oswald around 12:15 or 12:20. [1]
The Commission’s key witness alleging Oswald was on the sixth floor, Howard Brennan, claimed to see a man who looked like Oswald on the sixth floor just before the shooting. He gave the police a description of the shooter, including his height. [2] But later, investigators discovered that a person firing a rifle outside the sixth floor window Oswald allegedly used would most likely have had to crouch, a position that would not reveal the assassin’s height to someone at least one hundred twenty feet below. [3]
Brennan also claimed to have seen the same man point a rifle out the window and fire what some believe was the fatal shot. But to another source, he said he saw the same shot hit the President. These two sightings could not have both been made because Brennan could not have turned his neck at a speed faster than a bullet. Brennan has also stated in his book Eyewitness to History that the man at the window stayed there for three seconds after killing the President. [4]
In any event, after the last shot apparently hit JFK, Officer Marion Baker, close to the President’s motorcade, immediately drove his motorcycle straight to the TSBD, where he thought the shots came from. He got off the motorcycle and ran into the building. He went up the stairs and got to the second floor where he noticed a young man off to his right. With the building supervisor, Roy Truly standing nearby, Baker asked Truly if the young man, Oswald, worked for him. Truly said yes and he and Baker went up the stairs together. [5]
After asking Officer Baker to run a simulation of his actions after the shooting and before meeting Oswald, the Commission got the answer of ninety seconds. Then the Commission had a representative trace Oswald’s alleged movements after the shooting, including placing the rifle on the floor, until the Baker/Oswald meeting. His time came out to one minute, fourteen seconds and one minute, eighteen seconds in two separate trials. [6]
But critics have said that the simulations left key details out.
For example, some contend that Oswald was drinking a Coke© at this time. According to noted JFK assassination researcher and author David Lifton, early news reports stated that he was. [7] If true, it would have added time since Oswald would have had to retrieve a coin, deposit it, select the drink and remove the bottle cap.
Furthermore, critics of the simulation point out that it failed to take into consideration that the assassin hid the rifle carefully under and between a stack of book boxes. [8] Finding a hiding spot and placing the rifle there would undoubtedly have taken more time than merely putting down the rifle. Roffman identifies other discrepancies between the real-life actions and the simulation. [9]
We did not likely receive an accurate simulation of the time it would have taken an assassin to go downstairs from the sixth floor to the second floor. Of course, the Commission’s simulation required less time than the time critics of the simulation say it would have taken had it been done properly. This apparent reduction in the assassin’s time to get to the second floor buttresses the Commission’s belief that Oswald had the time to commit this crime.

As to my assertion of multiple shooters, there is evidence of bullets from the back of JFK and from the front:
James Tague, a spectator, claimed that one bullet missed and hit him. [10] From a diagram showing his location and the location of the motorcade, it is probable that the shot was fired from behind. [11]
Officer Bobby Hargis, right behind the motorcade, claimed to have heard a gunshot and been hit with brain mass and blood. [12]

In short, I believe in the innocence of Oswald, the falsity of the official report and the multiplicity of shooters. I believe, having gone to the Archives, that there were at least three "autopsies" conducted and the falsification of evidence by authorities. I do not know who shot at JFK and am entertaining doubts about his actual wounds, if any. So I have reconsidered referring to this event as an assassination.

1 mtgriffith.com/web_documents/wherewasoswald.htm
2 jfk-assassination.de/warren/wcr/page144.php
3 ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/PGchp7.html
4 wnd.com/2013/09/key-jfk-witness-was-looking-wrong-direction/
5 jfk-assassination.de/warren/wcr/page149.php
6 jfk-assassination.de/warren/wcr/page152.php
7 mtgriffith.com/web_documents/wherewasoswald.htm
8 Ibid
9 ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/PGchp8.html
10 jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol7/page552.php
11kenrahn.com/JFK/Scientific_topics/NAA/NAA_and_assassination_II/Resolving_the_logical_incompatibility.html
12.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol6/page293.php

[fbenario]

In short, I believe in the innocence of Oswald, the falsity of the official report and the multiplicity of shooters. I believe, having gone to the Archives, that there were at least three "autopsies" conducted and the falsification of evidence by authorities. I do not know who shot at JFK and am entertaining doubts about his actual wounds, if any. So I have reconsidered referring to this event as an assassination.

"Multiplicity of shooters" my ass. What in the world are you basing that conclusion on - the fabricated videos that we've proven are not trustworthy? Why are you jumping to believe the material issued by government and its media is the least bit trustworthy?

So you think JFK was shot, and an assassination occurred? You must not have read our thread on the supposed shooting of JFK. Or are you just trolling us and wasting everyone's time, most importantly your own? Fool.

[brianv]

A Multiplicity of Clowns watching a TV show then spending 50 years studying the physics of the magic bullet, the hearsay evidence of actors, a bunch of fake photos and a stupid piece of film.

[DeanHartwell]

"Multiplicity of shooters" my ass. What in the world are you basing that conclusion on - the fabricated videos that we've proven are not trustworthy? Why are you jumping to believe the material issued by government and its media is the least bit trustworthy?

So you think JFK was shot, and an assassination occurred? You must not have read our thread on the supposed shooting of JFK. Or are you just trolling us and wasting everyone's time, most importantly your own? Fool.

Febenario,

Maybe I am a fool. But you did not bother to read my post very well. Nowhere do I refer to videos as evidence. And I do refer to two witnesses to the Warren Commission (material issued by the government). But not all statements in the Warren Commission Report by witnesses are lies.
Furthermore, I stated that I have doubts that JFK was hit and that I have reconsidered calling the event an assassination.

Dean

[fbenario]

But not all statements in the Warren Commission Report by witnesses are lies.

Gullible much?

Or do you just selectively decide evidence is credible when it supports your otherwise unsupported theories?

[bostonterrierowner]

[...] All so called "Abrahamic" religions originated in Rome and again so called "christianity" is nothing else but Emperors' cult with its direct roots in deification of Julius Ceasar and later Augustus who perfected the whole scheme to the point that we are still play to his tune thousand of years later [...] Islam also originated in Roman Empire with Mecca and Medina being the sites of Ceasarian temples connected as well to the cult of Lepidus , JC's ( acronym identical to this other guy's, amazing ain't it )personal guard head. Lepidus was Ceasar's trusted soldier and "lapideus" in Latin means "stone" hence this giant black marble thing in Mecca , I suspect [...] It's a title , every Emperor was a "Jesus Christ" . The reason behind such idolatry has always been power and control so the ZIONISTS want total control and excercise it via financial system ( epigraphic symbols of Augustan cult were $ and P for example ), mainstream media, art , religion, law , and so on and so forth [...] Pope, CIA, Jesuits, Maltans, Free Masons , Bankers, MSM owners, drug cartels, some politicians, scientists , Rabbis, Islamic clergy and others bent on controlling the masses via ways of deception, wars, economic slavery are the zionists.

Maybe you should consider co-authoring a book with Dan Brown.

I hereby empower you to be my agent regarding this matter.

@Hoi , thanks for being open minded

@Brian , of course it's all about control over masses and earth's productive capacity , the rest is just semantics and psyopera.

This is exactly what this funny thing on this dude's head symbolizes :



3 papal bulls claiming rights to our souls, property and freedom .

[Critical Mass]

I was going to put this in the 'theater of the absurd' thread before remembering that Hoi doesn't like the UFO nonsense... but even so I thought it'd be worth sharing this ludicrous example of 21st century journalism at its finest.

The day UFOs stopped play

It was 27 October 1954, a typically crisp autumn day in Tuscany. The mighty Fiorentina club was playing against its local rival Pistoiese.

Ten-thousand fans were watching in the concrete bowl of the Stadio Artemi Franchi. But just after half-time the stadium fell eerily silent - then a roar went up from the crowd. The spectators were no longer watching the match, but were looking up at the sky, fingers pointing. The players stopped playing, the ball rolled to a stand-still.

What's even more funny about the whole thing is that this is not even the first time the BBC have pushed this angle...

The day UFOs hovered over Fiorentina's Stadio Artemio Franchi

Same quotes, same writer... virtually identical 'articles' 22 months apart.

And just in case somebody googled 'Florence' & 'UFO' we have these recent stories too.

Repeat a lie often enough.

[repentantandy]

I would have preferred to have heard "andy" reply to the question! And he should not be let off the hook from replying.

"9/11", in my opinion, was a US "Military" operation through and through. Military Camouflage, Military Demolition, Military Control of the Airwaves, Military Secrecy and Military Lies.

"Zionists" is just Ass Pull or Plot Fuel from the fake truther crowd!

Brianv, to deny that (some) Zionists were central to the 9/11 plot is akin to blindly insisting (after all that we've learned over the past 13 years) that the 9/11 imagery is entirely genuine!

Just what are you up to with this bizarre act of denial anyway?

As for my definition of the term, a modern-day Zionist is an ultra-motivated supporter of the policies, actions and goals of the nation-state known as "Israel". Of course there are many Zionists who had absolutely no part in the plotting of 9/11, but there were also several well-placed Zionist agents who DID help bring about the war-enabling, false-flag scam this very forum has been fearlessly and brilliantly investigating.

And as for the US military, OF COURSE there were top-rank sectors of it that were ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to staging the 9/11 events. And it is well known IN the military that these sectors are heavily infiltrated by Zionist sympathisers and agents.

One very quick way for an American flag officer to be "media-scandalised into early retirement," "accidentally killed in an airplane/helicopter crash," "blown up by a 'terrorist' bomb" or simply "suicided" is to start resisting that Zionist influence.

On the other hand, ambitious officers enthusiastically supporting the plans of the "war party" (which is certainly NOT exclusively Zionist, but DOES LOVE lots of military interventions and "boots on the ground") can lead to quick promotions, followed by lucrative, post-retirement "consulting" jobs with top Pentagon suppliers/contractors.

That's the way the "game" works .

[brianv]

I would have preferred to have heard "andy" reply to the question! And he should not be let off the hook from replying.

"9/11", in my opinion, was a US "Military" operation through and through. Military Camouflage, Military Demolition, Military Control of the Airwaves, Military Secrecy and Military Lies.

"Zionists" is just Ass Pull or Plot Fuel from the fake truther crowd!

Brianv, to deny that (some) Zionists were central to the 9/11 plot is akin to blindly insisting (after all that we've learned over the past 13 years) that the 9/11 imagery is entirely genuine!

Just what are you up to with this bizarre act of denial anyway?

As for my definition of the term, a modern-day Zionist is an ultra-motivated supporter of the policies, actions and goals of the nation-state known as "Israel". Of course there are many Zionists who had absolutely no part in the plotting of 9/11, but there were also several well-placed Zionist agents who DID help bring about the war-enabling, false-flag scam this very forum has been fearlessly and brilliantly investigating.

And as for the US military, OF COURSE there were top-rank sectors of it that were ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to staging the 9/11 events. And it is well known IN the military that these sectors are heavily infiltrated by Zionist sympathisers and agents.

One very quick way for an American flag officer to be "media-scandalised into early retirement," "accidentally killed in an airplane/helicopter crash," "blown up by a 'terrorist' bomb" or simply "suicided" is to start resisting that Zionist influence.

On the other hand, ambitious officers enthusiastically supporting the plans of the "war party" (which is certainly NOT exclusively Zionist, but DOES LOVE lots of military interventions and "boots on the ground") can lead to quick promotions, followed by lucrative, post-retirement "consulting" jobs with top Pentagon suppliers/contractors.

That's the way the "game" works .

I haven't a fucking clue what you are on about!

Oh I see, tucked away in the middle of all that news-cutting blather we have your definition of a Zionist!

a modern-day Zionist is an ultra-motivated supporter of the policies, actions and goals of the nation-state known as "Israel

MEN and WOMEN "blew up the towers" perhaps, (I'm still not convinced they were blown up at all)! MEN and WOMEN cleaned up the mess! MEN and WOMEN fixed the TV.

Who gives a fuck what football team they support!

[repentantandy]

Who gives a fuck what football team they support!

Means, MOTIVE and opportunity are the three essential avenues of investigating a crime, Brianv.

Starting wars to benefit the nefarious/parochial/hegemonic objectives of some murderous, criminal-haven of a "football team" should never be IGNORED... unless, I suppose, if YOU are a fanatical SUPPORTER of that team!

[brianv]

Means Motive and Opportunity

The US Military. The US Military. The US Military.

Given their popularity around the world, and considering the manpower involved in actual physical "demolition and removal" of said crusty old unoccupied buildings, wouldn't it be equally fair for you to assume that it was done by supporters of the "Manchester United" football team or the "Mets"?

[brianv]

[A] Zionist is an ultra-motivated supporter...

(X = Y) ? Oh well, that's the subject of a more lofty discussion.

Let's try something easier : Are you using the term "Zionist" as an Adjective or a Noun?

*
Furthermore...

Supporter : A person who approves of and encourages...

Person : A human being by STATUTE...the term can include firms, labor organizations, partnerships, associations, corporations, governments...

However, corporations, counties and cities cannot have the emotions of humans such as malice, and therefore are not liable for punitive damages.

Your fictional "Zionist" corporation cannot be tried for the crimes of "9/11". The clown outfit known as the "US Government" can't be tried. The equally ass-clown "US Military" can't be tried. The fictional "City of New York" can't be tried. Only the men and women involved in the conception and the carrying out of said unparalleled Act of Global Terrorism can be brought to trial - regardless of who or what their shallow brains "support" or where they are employed, be it in an office in "Washington" or a trailer-park in Peoria.

Why the Bizarre Act of Denial that Men and Women were involved?

[Farcevalue]

I will posit a guess and submit that the specific homo sapiens who pushed detonators, placed demolition apparati, or shot and edited the 9/11 movie are unbeknownst to anyone making assertions about fictional entities bearing responsibility for the psyop.

Moreover, even if the specific homo sapiens were identified on provably unadulterated video pushing detonator plungers, editing the news movies and were found with confessional diaries written by their own hands, the idea that they could be brought to some sort of justice in courts sanctioned and funded by the same fictional entity that sanctioned and funded the psyop is beyond ludicrous.

The only solution to the state/state-toady-media scam is to recognize it for the scam it is and withdraw from it. Ridicule and humor are optional.

[Critical Mass]

Following on from my earlier post at the top of the page the BBC is once again pushing the UFO angle (these nonsensical stories by the way are meant to be from a News Service which declares itself as "the best in the world at what it does")...

Why the French state has a team of UFO hunters



For those who like the numbers this may bring a chuckle...

The team receives, on average, two UFO sightings a day. The department insists an 11-page form is filled out for each one.

Further chuckles...

France has the biggest space agency in Europe... An offshoot of all that - France is the only country in Europe to maintain a full-time state-run UFO (unidentified flying objects) department.

They also link to the above football stadium story.

[hoi.polloi]

Derailing the forum. We have been skirting the UFO stuff here quite enough, no? Even looking at it with a critical eye, we risk the mud and mire of such a divisive topic. Regardless of your intentions, I agree with Simon that it stinks up the place. Please, don't. Sorry and let's move on.