THE DERAILING ROOM

A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest

Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby fbenario on Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:27 am

Flabbergasted » November 14th, 2018, 9:22 am wrote:
fbenario » November 12th, 2018, 9:32 pm wrote:Too much bragging, too much effusive praise for our forum, too much gilding our lily. Seemed to be trying to convince us of something, such as her bona fides and trustworthiness.

Not my style either, fbenario, but don´t let jealousy get the better of you.

Ooooh, how droll of you. Well done!
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby PianoRacer on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:27 am

Observer,

I fully agree with your line of reasoning / questioning and share your dismay/dissatisfaction that both of us must "cease and desist" our respective concerns and disagreements, without any kind of satisfactory resolution.

Like you, I resign myself to the clearly-stated wishes of our gracious hosts, Simon and SCS (the latter of which is, by the way, now the sole financial backer of this forum's existence. I think it should be known that donations to Simon, while perhaps still perfectly appropriate given his previous work, will not in any way contribute to the continued existence of Clues Forum).

Let it be known, however, that no satisfactory answers were even attempted to be given to either of our (in my opinion) quite reasonable lines of questioning regarding our respective topics of interest, both of which seem quite relevant to the purported purpose of this forum.

This fact should be clear to all, and the implications of such are left to the interpretation of the reader.

All the best,
-PR

P.S. I have notified SCS of my wish to be removed as a "sysadmin" for the forum, as I intensely dislike the "politics" that have very quickly emerged as a large factor in the upkeep of this site. I'd still very much like to stay on as a regular member, but time will tell if that will be feasible. If not, I doubt I'd be sorely missed.
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby PianoRacer on Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:24 am

For the record - though the topic has been deemed VERBOTTEN:

http://www.phy.mtu.edu/alumni/history/DMGPlumbLines.pdf
Are you seriously suggesting that this paper disproves a spherical Earth?


No, I am suggesting that the experiment being referenced is a legitimate way to test the curvature of the Earth, whether it be concave (the plumb lines would diverge, as was reportedly the case), flat (the plumb lines would be parallel), or convex (the plumb lines would converge). Do you disagree with this?

Look, I don't know if the paper referenced is accurate. It was reported by the media (over a century ago), which we all know is prone to error (i.e. egregious lies). That's why I am emphatically for a reconduction of the experiment in question, because I think that regardless of the reported results, the experiment is brilliant in it's ability to conclusively prove the center of gravity and thus, the shape of the Earth.

Let me ask you this, "dear Patrix" - is the experiment conceptually valid? Regardless of the results, would you not agree that the experiment, if conducted "scientifically" and publicly and repeatedly, would definitively ascertain the curvature of the Earth? If not, why not?

I don't expect you to answer, and I don't expect that I will be able to continue to ask this question. Here it is nonetheless.

All the best,
-PR
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby patrix on Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:26 am

PianoRacer » November 15th, 2018, 6:24 am wrote:For the record - though the topic has been deemed VERBOTTEN:

http://www.phy.mtu.edu/alumni/history/DMGPlumbLines.pdf
Are you seriously suggesting that this paper disproves a spherical Earth?


No, I am suggesting that the experiment being referenced is a legitimate way to test the curvature of the Earth, whether it be concave (the plumb lines would diverge, as was reportedly the case), flat (the plumb lines would be parallel), or convex (the plumb lines would converge). Do you disagree with this?

Look, I don't know if the paper referenced is accurate. It was reported by the media (over a century ago), which we all know is prone to error (i.e. egregious lies). That's why I am emphatically for a reconduction of the experiment in question, because I think that regardless of the reported results, the experiment is brilliant in it's ability to conclusively prove the center of gravity and thus, the shape of the Earth.

Let me ask you this, "dear Patrix" - is the experiment conceptually valid? Regardless of the results, would you not agree that the experiment, if conducted "scientifically" and publicly and repeatedly, would definitively ascertain the curvature of the Earth? If not, why not?

I don't expect you to answer, and I don't expect that I will be able to continue to ask this question. Here it is nonetheless.

All the best,
-PR


Earlier you wrote:

patrix » November 13th, 2018, 6:19 pm wrote:
and has NEVER been disproven.

PianoRacer: Except, of course, by the Tamarack mine shaft experiment, and arguably, the Rectilineator.
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/alumni/history/DMGPlumbLines.pdf
**********
So how do you expect "Except, of course by" to be interpreted?
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby PianoRacer on Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:36 am

So how do you expect "Except, of course by" to be interpreted?


Because the experiment, if conducted legitimately and reported accurately, would in fact disprove convexity.

Why do you ignore all of my questions, Patrix? How can someone so well versed in deception, be so susceptible to it? Is Simon truly that charming?!

Good luck to you and Simon in your "grand works". As Simon recently noted, you are on track to convince absolutely nobody with your convoluted diagrams and incomplete 2d and 3d models. I'm pretty sure that the membership at Wild Heretic, flawed as it may be, far outnumbers anybody who has been convinced by your TYCHOS model, which you have utterly failed to represent in any kind of cohesive way.

Hey, remember when I showed you that your model failed to show retrograde motion for Venus that is easily observable? When will that be accounted for and/or corrected? I shan't be holding my breath, that's for sure!

All the best,
-PR
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby Observer on Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:45 am

Hi Piano Racer,

I highly respect the intelligence + courage + honesty, shown in all your posts.

Here's a note I was going to send to you by PM but I decided to make it visible:

About Simon, he unfortunately still doesn't realize his beautiful Tychos model:
could CONCURRENTLY exist inside (and not conflict with) the Concave model.
He simply refuses to imagine for a moment - all the planets and stars as tiny.
He incorrectly assumes the Concave model is an attack on the Tychos model.
The curvature which his model requires is indeed found in the Concave model.
It's quite possible the Tychos model explains the workings within the Concave.
Tychos model could be explaining the movements of the tiny internal objects.
And Patrix doesn't realize Concave IS perfectly spherical ball of internal space.

And yes, PianoRacer, I now realize: plumb-lines would indeed be the best test.
But since I can't ever do such an experiment myself, I will never know for sure.
And because I will never know for sure I can't push Simon to consider that idea.
I'm convinced of curvature but lack proof about which way the curvature goes.
I'm basically saying, "PianoRacer, your belief might be right, but it lacks proof."
"I can't make two 2-kilometer holes in the ground, so I can't check plumb-lines."
So I've resigned myself to no longer pushing for Concave since I have no proof.

Simon's site is the only place, where people realize, the proven Vicsim reality.
I want to continue to be able to post here, regardless of curvature-direction.
So please, let's be satisfied with this rare oasis where Vicsim reality is known.
Thus, let's not push the Concave idea here, which admittedly we can't prove.
So let's allow your fine plumb-lines point to be the FINAL mention of Concave.
I have found absolutely no problems with Simon's Tychos model, and I love it.
It matches the planet movements better than any other model, so I choose it.
I simply think he should focus more on the evidence visible to all, not parallax.

So again as I said in my most recent post let's just get back to hoax-destroying.
viewtopic.php?p=2407766#p2407766

I prefer the focus on undeniable VISUAL proof of hoaxes (CGI, bad-acting, etc.)
I look forward to future posts concentrating on visuals, much more than words.
viewtopic.php?p=2407746#p2407746
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby patrix on Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:11 am

PianoRacer » November 15th, 2018, 7:36 am wrote:
So how do you expect "Except, of course by" to be interpreted?


Because the experiment, if conducted legitimately and reported accurately, would in fact disprove convexity.

Why do you ignore all of my questions, Patrix? How can someone so well versed in deception, be so susceptible to it? Is Simon truly that charming?!

Good luck to you and Simon in your "grand works". As Simon recently noted, you are on track to convince absolutely nobody with your convoluted diagrams and incomplete 2d and 3d models. I'm pretty sure that the membership at Wild Heretic, flawed as it may be, far outnumbers anybody who has been convinced by your TYCHOS model, which you have utterly failed to represent in any kind of cohesive way.

Hey, remember when I showed you that your model failed to show retrograde motion for Venus that is easily observable? When will that be accounted for and/or corrected? I shan't be holding my breath, that's for sure!

All the best,
-PR


Good to know where you stand on this PR.

I’ve had the privilege to study Simons model for about two years now, and I disagree that its badly explained or hard to understand. The other day I was thinking about the “elevator explanation” of Tychos. Imagine you are in an elevator and someone asks you what the heck is Tychos?

Tychos is the only model of our solar system that is in accordance with observations and experiments.

And Simon shows this beyond doubt in his book and articles. And Tychosium 2D is the only simulation of the solar system we have that is correct.

The Tychos model is a reasonable and logical hypothesis to test, just like the spherical Earth, since the configuration Simon proposes is the same as the binary stars we now can observe, and it has also been proposed historically by Tycho Brahe and Indian astronomers. Simon verifies it repeatedly throughout his book and it holds, just like the spherical Earth.

Perhaps it was not your intention but this was actually a very inspirational post made by you PR. I realize that the fun and rewarding work with Simon and his Tychos has only begun and I look forward to every minute of it.
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby simonshack on Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:41 pm

PianoRacer wrote:As Simon recently noted, you are on track to convince absolutely nobody with your convoluted diagrams and incomplete 2d and 3d models.


Huh? Where on Earth did I "note" that? Oh, perhaps you are referring to my comment/lament that very few people - so far - seem to be interested in the TYCHOS model. Well, I'm extremely confident that this is just a matter of time. Let this be said.

Matter of Time: https://thesocialservice1.bandcamp.com/ ... er-of-time

PianoRacer wrote:I'm pretty sure that the membership at Wild Heretic, flawed as it may be, far outnumbers anybody who has been convinced by your TYCHOS model, which you have utterly failed to represent in any kind of cohesive way.


Utterly? Really? So what about your previous, very positive comments and contributions to the TYCHOS model?
And, quite frankly, I cannot care less about what the membership at Wild Heretic thinks of the TYCHOS model!

PianoRacer wrote:Hey, remember when I showed you that your model failed to show retrograde motion for Venus that is easily observable? When will that be accounted for and/or corrected? I shan't be holding my breath, that's for sure!


No, I don't remember that. But thanks for reminding me to explain the retrograde motions to our readership. Here's a post I made today - showing how the TYCHOS perfectly accounts for the observed retrograde motions of Venus and Mercury: viewtopic.php?p=2407777#p2407777

*************************
And just to address your Concave Earth theory: fine, if it ultimately turns out that we live in a concave cosmos / universe, this will not by any means invalidate the TYCHOS research - which provides the most accurate match between geometric / optical realities and empirical observation. I don't think that you could say that I'm a close-minded person, so I'd be quite happy to participate (intellectually) in any future "Tamarack experiment verifications". Let's do it. Any billionaires out there wishing to fund it? Please get in touch!

And lastly, if you're inclined to believe that the stars, moons and planets are nothing but "holographic projections"(or anything of that sort), again - the TYCHOS provides you with the most accurate account of their secular motions - as observed over many centuries by countless astromomers. How can this be deemed as "utterly useless"? The TYCHOS provides the most cohesive explanation for ALL observations performed ever since ancient times. Try to beat that - if you can. Good luck!
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Re: THE DERAILING ROOM

Postby pov603 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:17 pm

PR, I go along with what Observer said.
If you have doubts about “tychos” and can highlight them as you’ve said about Venus’s retrograde motion that is exactly the sort of critique that is needed.
Let’s not get too “emotionally involved” with one viewpoint or another just yet, let’s just enjoy the ride and the scenery.
We may well find our destination(s) soon enough.

Edit: typo
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