A place to relax and socialize - to muse, think aloud and suggest


Postby hoi.polloi on Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:31 pm

It seems we have a lot of former military or people with military training that cannot seem to dislodge themselves from an investment in a dubious story. I can't help but wonder if there isn't a connection. Some people are more effected by such programs than others, I'd imagine.
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Postby smj on Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:24 pm

“It was only the beeping reality of Sputnik that suddenly made the threat of intercontinental atomic warfare with ballistic rockets more than a science fiction story.”
-william pickering

satellites have got to be the hoaxiest shit ever, except for the nuke hustle of course. both hustles were built on the orbital hustle of course. neils bohr brought the quantum mechanics hustle to rutherford's cavendish atom with his discrete orbital bullpsience and kepler and newton gave us the celestial mechanics hustle using orbitals. it's just a coincidence of course that the platonic ideal of the atom is bohr's quantum mechanical nonsense; it's also a coincidence of course that the platonic ideal of the modern soccer ball is the telstar satellite. butwhatever, the propergander site has some good work on the subject... ... satellites ... Alamos.jpg

...loran and sonochemistry (the real chain reaction) were dreamed up by alfred loomis in his castle in tuxedo park. i'll be explicit this time for patrix, loomis invented the shit that kept you from getting lost on the ocean and the bullshit hustle that goes down at nuclear power plants. alfred loomis was henry stimson's first cousin and protégé. i repeat, alfred loomis was henry stimson's first cousin, please google monster henry stimson and the manhattan project fellow skeptics. and please google sonochemistry and the chain reaction fellow skeptics; then google cherenkov radiation and sonoluminescence, the hustle will become apparent. you'll realize how the reactors make steam and produce that pretty blue light. then look into the loomis family; i suggest starting with mahlon loomis, the first wireless telegrapher, and his f'ing kites.

loomis' loran has been around since the early forties. lorana was accurate to the tens of miles while the modern loranc is accurate to about 10 meters we're told. perhaps it's even more accurate now and it's called gps or maybe the psichotic hustlers at nasa, darpa, rand, and a famous psience fiction writer invented "world traveling spaceships"... ... 11827.html

...if you're of the philosophical bent, bust out your occam razor fellow skeptics if need be; but please sharpen it first. we're also told gps confirmed einstein's relativity and lorentz'/minkowski's/poincare's transformative time dilation and mass contraction bullshit like a good narrative device should. butwhatever, that was psience and whatnot...

"In 1956, the German-American physicist Friedwardt Winterberg proposed a test of general relativity — detecting time slowing in a strong gravitational field using accurate atomic clocks placed in orbit inside artificial satellites.
Special and general relativity predict that the clocks on the GPS satellites would be seen by the Earth's observers to run 38 microseconds faster per day than the clocks on the Earth. The GPS calculated positions would quickly drift into error, accumulating to 10 kilometers per day. The relativistic time effect of the GPS clocksrunning faster than the clocks on earth was corrected for in the design of GPS." ... ing_System

...38 microseconds sounds about right; but i'm no psientist. and as for television signals let's recall that the spanish-american war was about laying submarine cable across the pacific; and cyrus west field had laid the first transatlantic cable all dafeckin' way back in 1858. but jfk, the son of a movie mogul, couldn't talk televised live to europe until 19fuckin'62 cause of clarke et al's spaceships. actually now that i think about it a dull occam razor ought a suffice to slice thru the spaceship bullpsience.

...and it's pure coincidence of course that ken feckin' feinberg is the long-time chairman of the board for the kennedy (jfk gave a speech that said we was going to the moon if i recall correctly) library and that his big sis', kick, married into the cavendish clan or that kennedy has the busiest performing arts (acting) center in the world named after him in the heart of d.c. that just so happened to be designed by the stanford research institute. the video of kennedy giving his famous speech to europe thru the telstar spaceship was shown to gullible apes across the world by pathé, another programming tool that was once owned by his dear old dad of course... ... rming_Arts ... nberg.aspx

...the fuckin' rooskies launched sputnik during the international geophysical year. the igy was dreamed up in dc at james van allen's house. he was the geiger(hans geiger teamed up with rutherford to make his famous counter) counter expert that worked with the disney actor, von braun, and the head of jack parson's lab, bill pickering, on 'murica's brave response to sputnick. the van allen belt is the reason many so called space psience experts say we haven't returned to the moon in half a century; how convenient for the narrative, no? their little beeping hustle response to the dastardly nuke wielding commies was called explorer one... ... hofIGY.pdf

...some heroic fucks in the army documented the explorer one launch for posterity and it's hilarious. enjoy...

...but anyways you seem like a pleasant enough chap so bienvenue dans notre réalité, patrix.
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Re: Does Rocketry Work in the Vacuum?

Postby patrix on Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:21 am

Honestly - To me you sound like people at work saying it's perfectly natural that a building cave into it's own footprint by office and jet fuel fires. To perform an experiment at home with some steel wire and gasoline would be utterly pointless. And likewise it's impossible to design some kind of experiment here on earth that could refute that rockets cannot work in the vacuum of space. What happens if NASA does a 180 and admits they've been lying all the time and that rockets actually don't work in space? Does that mean they have to work since the opposite of what they claim seems to be the only true source of truth?
And just to be clear so I don't get accused of slipping in any disinfo - I agree that most likely all imagery from 911 is fake.
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Re: Does Rocketry Work in the Vacuum?

Postby pov603 on Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:50 am

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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby hoi.polloi on Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:41 pm

While I don't wish to be a vehicle for hate and bigotry, I can't help but find this write up sobering, regarding the liars and scam artists involved in promoting Holocaust mythology:

Holocaust Howlers
by Ken Meyercord

Recently, the heartrending tales of a 95-year-old Pennsylvanian named Joseph Hirt were revealed to be a hoax. Hirt claimed to have been kidnapped by the Nazis and confined in Auschwitz. He illustrated his talks to high school audiences with a photo of an emaciated concentration camp inmate he claimed to be himself. A knowledgeable teacher recognized the photo as one of an inmate of the Dachau concentration camp and exposed other holes in Hirt’s story. When confronted with his lies, Hirt said “I'm sick and I'm tired and I'm old and I don't need this crap." In a comical unintended evocation of the slanderous Holocaust-denier charge, Hirt’s nephew said of his uncle, “He's in complete denial.”1 The blurring of memory with delusion is not uncommon amongst Holocaust survivors, and not just nonagenarians.

Many of the outlandish tales embellishing the Holocaust story are roll-on-the-floor, side-splitting howlers. It may seem in extremely poor taste to poke fun at aspects of the Holocaust story, as I’m about to do, but if you find it so, don’t blame me. Blame those who have appended farcical chapters to what is, at heart, a truly tragic story.

We begin with the Holocaust-denial laws so popular in Europe, which make it illegal to question the orthodox storyline. Leading the inquisition is, not surprisingly, Germany, which has fined and/or imprisoned dozens, if not hundreds, of heretics. As one wag put it, “Today’s leaders of Germany want to prove they’re not the sort of Germans who lock people up for writing books by locking people up for writing books.” And what do the German authorities do with the books written by convicted Holocaust deniers? They burn them (Welcome to the Dark Ages!).2

But the Oscar for Best Comedy in Heresy Suppression goes to France, whose Holocaust denial law makes it a crime to contradict the findings of the Nuremberg tribunal. At Nuremberg it was claimed that soap was made from the fat of Jewish corpses, but Peter Black, senior historian at the United States Holocaust Memorial and Museum, says “It didn’t happen…. even experimentally.”3 He’d better not say that in Gay Paree or he could be accused of contradicting what Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Fiske Stone called a “high-grade lynching party”4 and end up in jail.

Many people find the jailhouse confessions of German prisoners proof of the veracity of the Holocaust story. But consider the confession of a German soldier, Arno Düre, who told Soviet prosecutors he had helped bury thousands of Poles executed in the Katyn Forest Massacre. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russians, who blamed the massacre on the Germans at Nuremberg, admitted they were the guilty party. No German, including Herr Düre, was anywhere near.5 Many similar confessions by higher-ranking Nazis have proven equally counterfactual.6

Not content with only coerced confessions to justify hanging Nazis, the liberators of the Dachau concentration camp decided to create some physical evidence: they built a gas chamber of their own. Presented as a real gas chamber to tourists for years (and introduced into evidence as such at Nuremberg), the Dachau Museum later informed visitors no one was ever gassed there.7 Less truthfully, they didn’t go on to explain why it’s impossible for anyone to have been gassed in the showcase gas chamber.

The Dachau “gas chamber” is a room with a seven-foot-high ceiling in which are embedded fake, sheet metal showerheads. Here’s a photo of it:8

Unfortunately for the fabricators, a congressional delegation visited Dachau just two days after its liberation and they reported the room as having a ceiling ten-feet high protruding from which were real brass showerheads.9 In other words, a room like this one (which is, in fact, the shower room at Dachau at liberation):10

Looks like somebody built themselves a gas chamber, doesn’t it, only it wasn’t the Germans!

But what about the testimony of those who claim to have witnessed gassings, you ask? Well, consider that for years a man named Martin Zaidenstadt, who claimed to be a survivor of Dachau, regaled gullible tourists with tales of his having witnessed gassings at the camp.11 Keep Mr. Zaidenstadt in mind whenever you hear eyewitness accounts, such as the one about children being thrown on top once all the floor space in the gas chamber had been filled by adults (featured on the website of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum),12 or the one about the condemned being given a “nice haircut” just prior to being led into the gas chamber (featured in the acclaimed 1985 movie Shoah),13 or the one about a young girl repeatedly swallowing the family jewels hidden in the hem of her skirt whenever she feared she was about to be searched, then digging them out of her poop and sewing them back in (in the video archives of Steven Spielberg’s Shoah Foundation [“Shoah” is another term for the Holocaust]).14

Then there’s Misha Defonseca, who claimed to have run into the woods to escape the Nazis and been raised by wolves. Who would believe such nonsense? Answer: lots of people. The Romulus and Remus-inspired tale, recounted in her book Misha, received wide acclaim (including an encomium from Elie Wiesel), was translated into 18 languages, and earned her millions (“There’s no business like Shoah business”) before it was exposed as a fraud.15 The capper: Ms. Defonseca isn’t even Jewish!

Other frauds perpetrated on an unsuspecting public include Jerzy Kosinski’s The Painted Bird, a bestseller of the 1960s also lauded by Wiesel;16 Fragments, by Binjamin Wilkomirski, which won the Jewish National Book Award (not bad for a Gentile!);17 and Angel at the Fence by Herman Rosenblat, which was hailed by Oprah Winfrey as “the single greatest love story in 22 years of doing this show.”18 It all goes to show how uncritically Holocaust stories are accepted out of respect for the real victims, except by callous souls who find humor in human credulity (moi?).

Then there’s the testimony which is inexplicably absent. When Winston Churchill heard during the war that the Germans had killed 1.7 million people in gas chambers, he labelled it “the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world.”19 But in his voluminous memoir of the war years he fails to mention any gas chambers. Did “the greatest and most horrible crime” in human history slip his mind, even when the final tally was said to be four times greater than what he had heard? Or, with the liberation of the camps, did he realize the story was a myth, which he assumed would someday be exposed (silly boy!), and he didn’t want to be seen by history as having been duped. Nor does Eisenhower or De Gaulle mention gas chambers in their memoirs of the war. Even Elie Wiesel, the P.T. Barnum of Holocaust huckstering, makes no mention of gas chambers in his tone-setting Night, which chronicles his time spent in Auschwitz.

Not far from Steven Spielberg’s video trove of black comedy in Los Angeles is the Museum of Tolerance, founded by Simon Wiesenthal. Several years back a well-versed revisionist, David Cole, heard that amongst the museum’s displays was a film purportedly showing Jewish kids being herded into a gassing van by grim-faced, rifle-toting Nazis. Cole contends that no such homicidal vans existed (and, in fact, none has ever been found), so he was curious where Wiesenthal had found the contradicting footage. Through some diligent research, he found the obscure, fictional movie made in Poland from which the scene was purloined. Further research led to the Polish producer, who was incensed to learn the museum was showing his work without paying him a cent in royalties.20 I suspect the museum is no longer showing that bit of “documentary” evidence.

Some attempts at finding physical evidence to back up the Holocaust story have proven equally farcical. For instance, there’s the case of the Operation Reinhardt camps – Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec. Supposedly, hundreds of thousands of Jews were gassed and buried in mass graves, later disinterred and cremated in these camps (of which nothing remained but empty fields at war’s end). Revisionists say “no way.” They contend these “death” camps were actually transit camps, in which Jews being deported to areas occupied by the Germans in eastern Europe were processed. Who’s right could be proven quite simply by taking core samples to determine if the subsoil has been disturbed, i.e., pits were dug for burying the bodies. If pits, then death camps; no pits, then transit camps. But the Jewish authorities won’t allow this simple test to resolve one of history’s great mysteries to be performed.21 They did, however, allow an archeologist to do some digging at Treblinka. She dug a pit about four feet by six feet using the best archeological methods, expecting to find bones, teeth, ashes, and the like. She got down a couple of feet without finding anything; then “Eureka!”, she struck pay dirt: a tooth!... a SHARK’S tooth.22 So much for the archeological evidence!

One consequence of the history of the Second World War being reduced to little more than a carnival House of Horrors is that even true believers get duped. An Israeli group called “March of the Living,” which takes young Jews on tours of Auschwitz - traumatizing them for life with the grimmest of fairy tales - includes in their promotional material this photo of a pile of smoldering corpses:23

The tour organizers must have assumed any pile of dead bodies from the war era must be Jews. In fact, the photo is of Germans killed in the Allied firebombing of Dresden in April 1945.24

Similarly, when Phil Donahue had two prominent revisionists on his popular talk show in 1994 (if only such could happen today on network television!), he used photos of the fake gas chamber at Dachau to counter the revisionists’ claim that there were no gas chambers. Donahue became so flustered when this was pointed out to him by one of the revisionists, he revealed he didn’t even know if the photos were of Dachau.25

I’m sick of laughing at the farcical version of the Holocaust story. It’s time that tragic event was given the honest, factual remembrance it deserves and to stop imprisoning those who seek to tell the true story. It’s time to turn this tragicomedy into a bona fide history lesson. ... owlers.php

Anyone who says people should be jailed for pointing out these simple anecdotes must be considered a rather fascist individual themselves, no? I think the sentence near the top sums up draconian laws rather well.

“Today’s leaders of Germany want to prove they’re not the sort of Germans who lock people up for writing books by locking people up for writing books.”

After some reflection on the latest episode of The Clues Chronicle, where we began to read the first page of this thread, and then after reading several articles going back and forth about whom was killing whom during World War II, I can't help but reflect that some of this story will forever remain a mystery. And yet, the truth does show up rather boldly if you just do a little surface scraping on the propaganda.

What comes out, it seems, is that even so-called "Holocaust Deniers" say that a million Jewish people might have been killed during the whole of "World War II" because the Germans were waging an ethnic nationalist war. That really doesn't seem like the symbolic crime it is made out to be by believers of the post-war myth; the Germans were certainly not saints and it's obvious that some people are like jumpy64 and perhaps would very much like to use these Holocaust facts to justify unwise racist beliefs, but the whole purpose of this forum is to explore how propaganda by psychopathic types exposes the human race to wars.

I think there is a kind of "faith-based" belief that when we can "mature" out of the need for wars, we will inherently stop believing the propaganda in the first place. This site may or may not be evidence for that or the contrary; despite people loving peace, propaganda convinces them of the need for war.

There have been some really stupid mistakes in the investigations of the so called Holocaust (like the apparently bad lab tests of so-called "death chambers" done by Fred Leuchter and the messy associated trial), in investigations of 9/11 (A&E for 911 truth, for example) and so forth. What this really shows, to me, is that the human race excels at making ourselves believe in elaborate myths, but we're really quite bad at criticizing them scientifically. We could attempt to draw some connection about how scientific folks are consistently tempted to join the ranks of the largest ruling mob, but that's not quite it either. There are plenty of scientists shunned by the gang at the top, and it could be their (or more likely, a general sort of human) meekness which explains their different behaviors when "accepted" by the mainstream and when they are denied tenure, acceptance or what have you.

The main point regarding this thread should be that if readers agree with research exposing propaganda methods are accused of "holocaust denial" it seems it is an attempt, like being called "flat earthists" or "conspiracy theorists", of discredit by association (and conversely, credit by disassociation for the book burners). And as such, by merely taking on the rather mild position of saying Jews were persecuted just as much as any other enemy in a war is persecuted, one is meant to be considered an outlandish racist extremist.

We should be quite proud of being skeptical of all forms of propaganda, as it does help us attempt as a species to get to the bottom of what exactly is going on. If we take the conservative Swiss estimate of a "mere" several hundred thousand Jews losing their lives to this war, which seems about as believable as the "about one million" number even after reading several view points on the subject, it should still far exceed our threshold for the concept of "peace". A war took place. There was war.

But what exactly war is, and how it appears in our world, is muddied by the strange conclusions of people saying the 6-million figure is some kind of undeniable fact, when it's anything but. Helping people understand the propaganda of "peace time" (maybe more accurately called imperial propaganda of a predatory State) should prove very instructive about the much more confusing and horrific situation of being faced with propaganda of "war time" (when propaganda is pitted against propaganda in a bid for the hearts and minds of the public.) It's not the same, and we should all be aware of the difference if we are to avoid being seduced into a war time.

The propagandists responsible for the Patriot Act type legislation and "anti-Holocaust denial" legislation and so on ought to be held responsible for crimes against humanity. France and Germany have some serious soul searching to do in regards to their criminally insane laws against intellect.

Free speech is a precious value that all countries should aspire to. Not just Japan, Iceland, the UK, the USA and the Netherlands — if those can be considered as free as purported. [/soapbox]
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby hoi.polloi on Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:38 pm

Regarding the trial mentioned above, it should be noted that the "delousing" argument has an official argument against it, that goes something like this:

However, his report contains the assumption that lower concentrations are required for delousing than to kill humans and other warm blooded creatures; in fact, with their simpler structures and slower metabolisms, insects are more resistant to such gross metabolic poisons than mammals. Both toxicological study and practical experience demonstrate that it takes a much higher concentration of cyanide (16,000 parts per million) to kill insects than to kill humans (300 PPM), as well as an exposure time of many hours rather than only minutes. Leuchter also fails to explain his belief that Zyklon-B was used for delousing, in view of his belief that the product would present technical difficulties in ventilating and decontaminating such as to make it impractical for use in a gas chamber.

-Wickedpedia's stance on

For those studying the "death chamber" arguments, it is instructive to read the many official responses to the apparently ill-prepared Leuchter.

For example, he says there was inadequate ventilation, but a diagram apparently surfaced showing ventilation in the killing chamber. Was Leuchter a genuine researcher, or was he meant to bring up just such an argument?

It still seems unconvincing to me that pesticide would be used to exterminate people, and missing in this whole discussion is the idea that pesticide that kills people in tiny doses would be used in huge quantities to destroy its intended target. Were the Germans considered merely ignorant of their own poisons? Are we meant to believe the product was developed like radiology — the idea of devastating the body with attacks in order to kill the disease?

Or is there something deceptive in the official explanation? For example, the form of Zyklon B may have been deadly to insects in its produced state, but said to have been modified to kill people by heating it to the temperature to produce the toxic fumes. Very fishy.

And where are the signs of so called open pits of burning bodies? The whole thing seems entirely too desperate and weird to be considered much more than propaganda from the allies. Like the "nuke bomb" scare.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby sharpstuff on Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:34 am

Dear Hoi,

I am glad you picked up the article you cited above, I nearly uploaded it myself. In fact the whole of the Winter edition at Inconvenient History is worth reading for a number of reasons. I have been researching this 'Holocaust' for a long time now. (Note the very use of the capital 'H').

I especially liked the work of Germar Rudolf in that issue at

which relates to Deborah Lipstadt and her book 'Denying the Holocaust'. His views on this particular matter could related to any number of the issues we are supposed not to question.

As much as I detest the grammatically incorrect phrase 'conspiracy theory' (you can only have a theory of a conspiracy), I detest the notion that the word Semitic is being related to a person or group of persons. The word Semitic relates to a group of languages. Anti-semitic, therefore is a nonsense.
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Re: Engineering 'disease'

Postby patrix on Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:23 pm

FYI - maybe read thru a thread a little before replying to the last post.

I have, but did honestly not find much of interest which is not surprising at a forum where someone gets criticized and censored for using verifiable observations and high school physics to question some of the hypothesizes postulated.

[Flagged for unjustified complaints. See patrix's "verifiable observations" and "high school physics" in preceding posts. -HP]

I am however very grateful of and impressed by Simon, hoi.polloi and other forum members knowledge and work in image analysis and ability to apply that to understand the inner workings of the conspiracy we are confronted with.

And I agree that most diseases, especially the so called western ones (eg. obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, dementia) are engineered, but I think the main culprit is the diet, and that the social engineering to accomplish this goes all the way back to the sixties when the free mason Walt Disney made animals our soulmates through his movies so that we would oppose eating them.

At the same time Rockefeller promoted Ancel Keys and his junk science that argued animal fat is unhealthy. The so called diet-heart hypothesis.

Animal fat is the most essential nutrient to humans. The liver needs it to produce cholesterol which is the raw material needed to repair cells, create hormones and keep the immune system working.

Less animal fat also means more carbohydrates which the body can only tolerate so much of before the hormone system gets disrupted and results in hyperinsulin/diabetes and obesity.

The best hypothesis regarding cancer in my view is that it's not really a disease but a natural mechanism the body uses when it's being poisoned. We actually all get cancer every day. Some cells transform and grow to a sponge like substance that absorbs and isolates the toxic substances from the rest of the body. When less poison is being added and/or the liver, kidneys and lymphatic system (that all detoxifies the body) resumes normal function the "tumour" naturally recesses.

I think this is confirmed by Thomas Seyfrieds work, but he doesn't dare to spell it out. The Nutwork keeps doctors and researches in a tight leach, and add some psyops involving murdered alternative doctors on top of it.

So what causes the poisoning that has given us the alarming numbers of cancer? The culprit is the diet and health advice the Nutwork promotes through their propaganda, psyops and social engineering. It is designed to weaken the immune system, clog up our lymphatic system and promote microbe growth that produces toxins. We are also conditioned to eat frequently and sleep less which makes it harder for the body to detox.

Vegetable oils or "unsaturated fat" as it is also called, should be avoided. It clogs up our lymphatic system and promotes insulin resistance.

Grain, starch and sugar should be consumed moderately since it promotes microbe growth that in turn results in toxic buildup and cancer.

Soy products, sunscreen oil, fluoride, artificial sweeteners and most additives and pesticide residues should be avoided since its highly toxic.

And the icing of the cake is of course the chemotherapy. When a patient goes into chemo the doctor often gives an estimate on how much time the patient has left. The ability to do so is because the toxins added by the chemotherapy usually pushes the cancer over the hilltop and kills the patient within the estimation.

My favorite vegetarian Hollywood psyop is the key scene in Silence of the lambs where Jodi Foster as Agent Starling gets traumatized for life by growing up on a farm and witnessing a lamb slaughter...
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Re: Engineering 'disease'

Postby hoi.polloi on Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:34 am

patrix wrote:I have, but did honestly not find much of interest which is not surprising at a forum where someone gets criticized and censored for using verifiable observations and high school physics to question some of the hypothesizes postulated.

This is the kind of comment we get for putting up with your malarkey and your refusal to follow forum rules like reading the thread you're commenting in? Fuck that.

Patrix, you are rightly criticized for acting like you cannot understand when people don't accept your most ignorant assumptions without question. In what way have your most blase, stupidest and most petulant posts been censored? I moved them to the Derailing Room for everyone to see how you poorly reason, where they are archived as a testament to exactly the kinds of tiresome and lazy arguments that prevent reason from prevailing in our culture. Furthermore, we don't have time to deal with you if you're going to take every opportunity to complain about the very platform you are using for your opinions.

It's also true that I have seen animal fats, or other fats, be absolutely critical in helping people with poor diets recover to full and balanced health. I am skeptical that the "frugivore" method works for all. But that's not an excuse for you to tear into CluesForum's moderation.

As for censorship, it's called moderation. And for being a troll in threads that call for the highest civil discourse, you can leave now and simply start a blog all about your high school physics opinions and egotistical manner. Farewell.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby hoi.polloi on Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:06 am

An enlightening and sobering read. Indeed!

I was tempted to take on jumpy64's "antisemitism means opposed to Jewish superiority" bait, but lately, I am feeling as though antisemite is a complex hate word, like terrorist, conspiracy theorist or heathen.

I agree that your assessment is a powerful understanding of the word. I will use that, if you don't mind. I mean, how was an entire language group claimed by an extremist sect and distributed/taught to the disciples and followers of this extremism as an acceptable thing to call others? "Goy" almost has the same connotation. If you are "Goy" then you are in danger of being an "Anti-Semite" so you'd better just acquiesce, convert and get it over with.


Kind of medieval, when you think about it, actually. Reminds me of "Jesus loves you unless you are [such and such], then you're going to hell for eternity."

Words are undeniably powerful, and we should pay attention when someone abuses powerful words as an attempt to compensate for, perhaps, a lack of real argument. Seems like a thing the wackier of religions love to do. From the article you posted:

2. Anti-Semitism

I hesitated to address this issue in the first place, because most people don’t want to hear or read about it. But Dr. Lipstadt uses the terms “antisemitism,” “antisemite” and “antisemitic” 182 times in her book, so on average almost on every single page of it. Lipstadt’s book is even copyrighted by “The Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Anti-Semitism, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem,” according to the imprint. Hence battling anti-Semitism is what the book is mainly about.

And where is the link? Well, on page 218 she is adamantly clear:

Holocaust denial is nothing but antisemitism.

Pretty much everybody she discusses, and every sincere dissent ever expressed about the mainstream Holocaust narrative, gets hit with the accusation of being anti-Semitic. There is therefore no way of dodging it, short of total acquiescence.

This pretty much says everything. She has already given away the whole game by operating under such a publisher.

"Study of Anti-Semitism" is almost like having an academic "Study of Those Colored People" or "Study of Creepy Weirdos". An absurd notion for a title of a study if it's a supposedly serious and contemporary university.
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Postby hoi.polloi on Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:49 am

To add to my cheerful and happy reflections on this subject lately (after all, shouldn't we be happy and shouldn't we celebrate if there's a remote possibility that 5 fucking million people didn't die a violent death attributed to history? Why are we supposed to feel so bad about this possibility?) I was browsing a very curious site recently.

It is a site for apparently some kind of legal group called the Southern Poverty Law Center.

I find this a very enlightening look at modern Holocaust propaganda. There is a modern concept of something called a "holocaust denier", which apparently the laws in Europe are based on, more or less. In Germany, for instance, the legal language is something like: "someone who hates an identifiable group".

(What this leaves to the imagination about the clandestine Mason-type or Mafia-type groups we speculate about at the top, I won't explore in this post. However, it's worth thinking about this German law as a way of censoring and preventing the discovery of such evil groups.)

This site shows us the implication of something very interesting. One of the big reasons for the success of the "Holocaust Denier" argument is because of immoral lawyers who happily persecute so-called "Holocaust Deniers" because the trials may supposedly lead to success based on nothing more than the public hate of anyone labeled "antisemite" by a Jewish attack organization.

As you can see on the site's "Hate Map", they lump in "Holocaust Denial" groups with such reviled racists as:

- militant White groups and neo-Nazis
- militant Black groups who say White people were invented by an evil mad scientist
- anti-Muslim hate groups


I have circled the areas where evil "Holocaust Denial" is supposedly taking place. I have researched the groups they have labeled and they don't seem to be the evil racists that they are accused of being. They are certainly not the same as Nazi thugs and gang members. Far from it!

Yet, if you read the language on this site carefully, you will note that they have had to spell it out very carefully — as lawyers have the skill set to do — in order to try to characterize these intellectual pursuits as somehow having anything to do with "hate".

The opening is almost embarrassing for stating the propaganda right up front:

Deniers of the Holocaust, the systematic murder of around 6 million Jews in World War II, either deny that such a genocide took place or minimize its extent. These groups (and individuals) often cloak themselves in the sober language of serious scholarship, call themselves “historical revisionists” instead of deniers, and accuse their critics of trying to squelch open-minded inquiries into historical truth.

Aha, so we're not actually intellectual or scholarly. We are merely cloaking ourselves in the raiment of true intellect. Well, fair enough, I guess. Minimizing the extent would be the same thing as denying it, no? Whatever. Must be fancy talk us cannit unnerstan'.

The deniers’ claims run a gamut. Some say that most Jews were the victims of disease and other privations, or died in much the same way that other casualties of a huge and horrific war did. Some say that the gas chambers did not exist, or were only used to delouse prisoners, or could not possibly have killed as many victims as mainstream historians have asserted, and many suggest that the gas chambers were built after the war as a way extracting reparations from the Germans. The main purpose of Holocaust denial has been to rehabilitate the German Nazis’ image as part of a bid to make the ideology of national socialism more acceptable.

Wow, I had no idea that I was trying to create a national palate for some kind of national socialism. I didn't even think I was a nationalist. But there it is. The main purpose of looking into the past is to cause doomed (but conversely perhaps evil) revolutions.

David Irving, a British writer who is the world’s best-known denier, sued an American scholar for calling him a denier but suffered a devastating defeat in 2000, when a British judge concluded that Irving had selectively edited the facts in his books as part of his pro-Nazi, pro-Hitler and anti-Jewish ideology.

- ... ust-denial

In conclusion, and as you can read for yourself, does the legal site have more to do with making a buck than making justice work for those in the right? It's an advertisement for a law group.

Interestingly, they have apparently worked for a more respectable social justice in helping cases against KKK and other insane racists. But the "holocaust denier" bit seems almost tacked on because ... well ... who knows?

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Re: Manchester Arena bombing 22/05/2017

Postby Robbow93 on Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:06 pm

full link:

The "Truth" is out! This girl says it definitely not fake :P :P
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby brianv on Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:07 pm

Given that both are similarly sized - if the "ISS" is visible from Earth then every football stadium in the UK (and there are hundreds) should be visible from the ISS correct? Greater London is barely a dot from 200 km, (like Hoi I also found the Google zoom) so where are the 20-30 Premier League London Stadiums?

The marker is at Manchester, please highlight Old Trafford Football Football Stadium, one of the biggest in Europe!


You will see in the bottom right that we are only at 200km!
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby ObamaSimLaden on Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:17 pm

At night with the lights on at the stadium only you could probably see the little dot...without other light pollution.
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Re: Fakery in Orbit: THE I$$

Postby Flabbergasted on Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:26 pm

brianv » November 6th, 2017, 12:07 pm wrote:You will see in the bottom right that we are only at 200km!

Isn´t that a scale for distances on the surface? The illustration looks more like 3000 km altitude.
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