Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread postby lux on Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:35 am

Maybe I was being being over-critical of Zappa. I didn't really mean to pick on him in particular. Your praise of him reminds me that I did like what he was doing and he did spark some new awareness in me at some point. After all, that's why I went to see him perform in the first place. Maybe he just pissed me off with that insulting routine of his. :)

Artists are often complicated people, I've found. I have more than once been pissed off by artists I formerly admired when I came into contact with them. It's a bit of a shock but it has also served to “keep me grounded” as far as not becoming star struck over celebs. Some of them are real dickheads.
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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:51 am

I know what you mean. I am consistently grateful that while they say never to meet your heroes, I have not once regretted meeting Simon.
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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread postby lux on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:11 pm

Simon is lucky to have you as his friend, hoi.


If I may, I have an anecdote that illustrates another side of this coin. It is meant to relate to the thread's topic in an allegorical way. And, I will try to be brief.

For some years I worked in Hollywood as an “extra performer” (an actor without lines). There was a TV comedy writer that I once greatly admired and thought of as a genius. I was booked on a show of his that he both wrote and starred in. I worked in that capacity for a total of about 5 or 6 episodes. I think it was on the 2nd such job that we were shooting in a hospital room set. I was playing a person visiting a patient who was in a hospital bed. However the “patient” in bed kept falling asleep during takes (not uncommon with extras who get little sleep between jobs). The problem was that this guy snored very loudly and making noise is strictly a no-no during a take. I was trying to gently wake him up while cameras were rolling so the shot wouldn't be ruined. But this guy was a super sound sleeper. Shaking him didn't work and he just snored more loudly. At one point I softly whispered to him to wake up or shut up or something like that. Well, the star, who was in a dialog with another actor at that time, suddenly and angrily called for a cut and then marched directly over to me.

In a rage he demanded, “Were you talking during the take?!?!?!?!”

There was dead silence on the set while the whole company, cast & crew had their eyes on me.

Now, in the fraction of a second before I answered that question, a number of thoughts raced through my mind as I tried to figure out the best way to respond. Should I try to explain that I was only trying to quiet the moron in bed who was snoring? That seemed like it would be interpreted as my trying to shift blame to someone else. Lame! Should I just deny that I was talking? No, that could get messy and it wouldn't be true. What should I say?

Well, in the end my decision was: Fuck it, just say yes.

So, that's what I did. I looked him in the eye and just said, “Yes.” It was true after all, and the extenuating circumstances would probably just sound lame if I tried to explain further.

He then proceeded to rant at me in front of the whole company about what a low life cretin I was for ruining the take. It was quite a tirade. I never saw him do anything like that before or since. I never saw any star or director make such a fuss over something like that. But, the odd thing was I think he was surprised that I didn't cave in and didn't try to squirm out of this confrontation. I think that is what pissed him off the most -- that I wasn't afraid of him and just answered up with no attempt to dodge the bullet.

But, afterward, the experience left me shaken. Not that I cared about my employment on the show. I actually worked on a number of subsequent episodes and that incident only seemed to endear me to the crew who remembered me and greeted me warmly whenever they saw me back on set. Though Hollywood often treats extras with contempt, they still know that they are needed and that replacing them costs money and can hurt a show's screen continuity so they rarely fire them.

The experience shook me because I had admired this guy so much as a comedy genius for years and I suddenly discovered, face to face with this “hero,” that he was a supremely arrogant asshole who tried to intimidate a lowly extra for an error that would have been brushed off as nothing if any other cast or crew member had done it. (Re-takes are drops in a bucket with shows like this.)

Anyway, this bubble-bursting experience then got me to thinking along certain lines which eventually led to my realizing what Hollywood was really all about and, long-story-short, realizing the tremendous propaganda machine it really is. In other words, the bad experience turned out to be more valuable to me than I would have ever thought and I am glad it happened.

So, I guess my point is: it's not necessarily a bad idea to meet your heroes but be prepared for a shock if you ever do. :)
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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread postby hoi.polloi on Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:22 pm

Funny and meaningful story, lux. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread postby iCONOCLAST on Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:17 am

Exactly Lux, you can only judge the greatness of a man by his interaction with "inferiors" (e.g. disabled, poor, distraught)

I was extremely humbled once to hear a ex-Head of Surgery from a major teaching hospital take time to validate my social upheaval with his own tale of marital woe!
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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread postby Cobra Commander on Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:19 am

hoi.polloi wrote:
Cobra Commander wrote:As for Jim writing a book, the Doors movie shows him recording an audio book, so maybe it's something worth digging for to see if he gave any other info on what he may have known.


That is interesting. Hmm.

Check this out Hoi.

I don't know if it is what the movie was depicting Jim Morrison recording. It's really weird and it seems like Jim Morrison just rambling on about different topics, so not really an audio book, but one of his rant tracks is "Adolf Hitler is still alive". I just found it, so I haven't given it too much of a listen yet. You can listen to all the tracks at this link to Jim Morrison "The Lost Paris Tapes"...

https://archive.org/details/JimMorrison ... ParisTapes

I'll keep digging to see if I can find anything else.
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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread postby Mansur on Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:42 pm

SacredCowSlayer » October 1st, 2018, 1:29 pm wrote:Ben Folds .... is an amazing talent for one. Moreover, there are times when he seems to be telling some brutal truth, as he peppers it throughout his music with wit, and in this case a degree of satire.

Music clips like this, in the same way as clips of other kinds, should, I think, be viewed also in the perspective of frauds and lies.

In my dictionary, the right term to denote such a man as Ben Folds is: a musical clown (homme-orchestre). (I have seen about one hour of his clips. Maybe some kind of mental tax to the empire!) E.g.: Before great audience, he is giving us to believe to compose in “real time” on the podium, which is being the performance itself, some cadences for a symphonic orchestra around him that promptly realizes it. Now, to anybody endowed with a little critical eye (and ear) and who doesn’t wear a fan’s eyeglass while watching, the fraud can not but be obvious.

Bobby McFerrin comes to mind, his being the Cesar of this kind of stunt, and his making the audience --- sing. The whole thing seems with him to be a real wonder of some kind, as he is pulling the figures out of his soul or sometimes seemingly of the audience’s soul and making them sound together… While in truth the whole production is well-rehearsed, with a choir and the soloists and the actors for the gags, and all the latter are sitting among the other viewers “incognito”.

Maybe I am terribly naïve and everybody in the audience is fully conscious of the trick, I don’t know, -- but in this case the matter is much more terrible. As with the all-in “wrestling” show.

And fakery in no ways stops with such tidbits.

--------
--------

Ben Folds Composes a Song LIVE for Orchestra In Only 10 Minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BytUY_AwTUs
Introduced by Dr. Charles Limb --- he „is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain.”

https://www.ted.com/talks/charles_limb_ ... v#t-133330

„… Artistic creativity is a neurologic product that can be examined using rigorous scientific methods…”
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Re: Is MUSIC used as a propaganda/mind-control tool?

Unread postby SacredCowSlayer on Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:49 pm

Mansur » October 5th, 2018, 1:42 pm wrote:
SacredCowSlayer » October 1st, 2018, 1:29 pm wrote:Ben Folds .... is an amazing talent for one. Moreover, there are times when he seems to be telling some brutal truth, as he peppers it throughout his music with wit, and in this case a degree of satire.

Music clips like this, in the same way as clips of other kinds, should, I think, be viewed also in the perspective of frauds and lies.

In my dictionary, the right term to denote such a man as Ben Folds is: a musical clown (homme-orchestre). (I have seen about one hour of his clips. Maybe some kind of mental tax to the empire!) E.g.: Before great audience, he is giving us to believe to compose in “real time” on the podium, which is being the performance itself, some cadences for a symphonic orchestra around him that promptly realizes it. Now, to anybody endowed with a little critical eye (and ear) and who doesn’t wear a fan’s eyeglass while watching, the fraud can not but be obvious.

Bobby McFerrin comes to mind, his being the Cesar of this kind of stunt, and his making the audience --- sing. The whole thing seems with him to be a real wonder of some kind, as he is pulling the figures out of his soul or sometimes seemingly of the audience’s soul and making them sound together… While in truth the whole production is well-rehearsed, with a choir and the soloists and the actors for the gags, and all the latter are sitting among the other viewers “incognito”.

Maybe I am terribly naïve and everybody in the audience is fully conscious of the trick, I don’t know, -- but in this case the matter is much more terrible. As with the all-in “wrestling” show.

And fakery in no ways stops with such tidbits.

--------
--------

Ben Folds Composes a Song LIVE for Orchestra In Only 10 Minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BytUY_AwTUs
Introduced by Dr. Charles Limb --- he „is a doctor and a musician who researches the way musical creativity works in the brain.”

https://www.ted.com/talks/charles_limb_ ... v#t-133330

„… Artistic creativity is a neurologic product that can be examined using rigorous scientific methods…”


Ben Folds is an entertainer, and I don’t know a single fan who claims anything to the contrary. I’ll just leave it at that.

NOBODY is going to come out and write it on the wall AND still have a sizable audience and platform. I’m open to the idea that some people (perhaps even Ben Folds) are aware of this painful reality, and do have to say certain things in a round-about way so as to avoid being shut down.

Nevertheless, I appreciate wit, satire, and music that is unique and doesn’t sound like everything else.

My post was really meant to be on the lighter hearted side of things here. So chill my friend. It’s Friday. :)
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