Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby pov603 on June 26th, 2014, 9:08 am

I would think we get 'outnumbered' by this mere handful of foxy players for the simple reason that we empower them to take us towards, what we think will be [based upon their promises/threats/lies], a better life.
The only analogy I can think of at present is someone going on a journey from point 'A' to point 'B' and paying their money to the bus driver/bus company in the same way 50+ other people are doing [none of whom we may even know] all in the hope we arrive safely.
As unscrupulous as the bus driver/company may be i.e. they may drive too fast, in a vehicle not up to standard, via a route which is beneficial to them rather than the passenger, make us buy and eat/drink foodstuffs that they want us to purchase at their prices, make us watch the on-board TV showing programme/adverts they want us to see etc., we have no dilemma in choosing one company or the other [probably owned by the same people in the first place].
Upon boarding, we seemingly have no control over how safe/comfortable/bumpy the ride may be and even when faced with the 'democratic choice' of being able to stop the bus at any time and get off [in the middle of nowhere as far as they would have us believe] not many, if any, would choose to exercise this 'right'.
Yet we will take that bus time and time again, eventually without even thinking too much about it.
It's probably only when they see others walking the same route [ie not taking the bus] that they give the matter any thought, but even then, they will only wonder 'why on earth is someone walking the route when they can take the bus?' rather than realize 'oh, I could walk it instead'.
Sorry if the above seems a bit off the mark or simplistic but ultimately people take the path of least resistance especially when someone is shouting 'roll up, roll up, come and use the world's best bus service, there's no other like it, once on, you'll never [be allowed to] want to get off".
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby lux on June 28th, 2014, 10:08 am

brianv wrote:The word Occult simply means Hidden, but strangely, many ascribe some voodooic value to it.


Hidden is one definition of occult and it is the word's derivation but ...

Image
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/occult?s=t

.. in typical usage it primarily refers to "any system claiming to use knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies" and that is the meaning I meant with my use of that word.
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby brianv on June 28th, 2014, 1:18 pm

lux wrote:
brianv wrote:The word Occult simply means Hidden, but strangely, many ascribe some voodooic value to it.


Hidden is one definition of occult and it is the word's derivation but ...

Image
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/occult?s=t

.. in typical usage it primarily refers to "any system claiming to use knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies" and that is the meaning I meant with my use of that word.


Origin
" late 15th century (as a verb): from Latin occultare 'secrete', frequentative of occulere 'conceal', based on celare 'to hide'; the adjective and noun from occult- 'covered over', from the verb occulere."
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby lux on June 28th, 2014, 10:40 pm

brianv wrote:Origin
" late 15th century (as a verb): from Latin occultare 'secrete', frequentative of occulere 'conceal', based on celare 'to hide'; the adjective and noun from occult- 'covered over', from the verb occulere."


It appears you didn't fully read my post, brianv.

I said ...
lux wrote:
Hidden is one definition of occult and it is the word's derivation but ... in typical usage it primarily refers to "any system claiming to use knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies" and that is the meaning I meant with my use of that word.


What that means is yes, the word "occult" derives from "secret" but in common usage the word refers to a system related to supernatural powers or agencies. My point was that such a definition of occult is indistinguishable from the definition of a religion and that this is the most common meaning of the word.

Example: When someone says, "I'm into the occult" what is meant is that they are interested in beliefs and practices claiming to use knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.

brianv, you seem bent on finding something ... anything ... which you perceive as being "wrong" with virtually every post I write these days. Why is that? Have you fallen in love with me?
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby brianv on June 28th, 2014, 11:36 pm

lux wrote:
brianv wrote:Origin
" late 15th century (as a verb): from Latin occultare 'secrete', frequentative of occulere 'conceal', based on celare 'to hide'; the adjective and noun from occult- 'covered over', from the verb occulere."


It appears you didn't fully read my post, brianv.

I said ...
lux wrote:
Hidden is one definition of occult and it is the word's derivation but ... in typical usage it primarily refers to "any system claiming to use knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies" and that is the meaning I meant with my use of that word.


What that means is yes, the word "occult" derives from "secret" but in common usage the word refers to a system related to supernatural powers or agencies. My point was that such a definition of occult is indistinguishable from the definition of a religion and that this is the most common meaning of the word.

Example: When someone says, "I'm into the occult" what is meant is that they are interested in beliefs and practices claiming to use knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.

brianv, you seem bent on finding something ... anything ... which you perceive as being "wrong" with virtually every post I write these days. Why is that? Have you fallen in love with me?


Lux, I wasn't contradicting you or arguing with you, and you didn't read my post. It simply irks me that the word 'occult' is used in the manner it is. You know me, I don't go for all that wacky witchcraft/voodoo nonsense...actually anywhere belief is involved. That's all.

Example: When someone says, "I'm into the occult" what is meant is that they are interested in beliefs and practices claiming to use knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies. That's when I usually fall over laughing!!
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby lux on June 29th, 2014, 1:10 am

^ OK
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby hoi.polloi on June 29th, 2014, 1:13 am

lux, I also didn't read it as contradiction. If his argument style to disagree with you was going to be standing by a single definition and claiming it were the only one, I would assume brianv was having a bad day with brain-fog and I'd defend you. But I think he was just kind of explaining where he finds the term the most useful.

Let's not argue if we can help it. Although, in my opinion, this kind of discussion and misunderstanding leads to clarification if one has the patience to get through the snits, and that is very useful to bringing the whole practice of analyzing the news into casual conversation instead of leaving these things as mysterious or scary.
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby lux on June 29th, 2014, 6:52 pm

Well, first of all let me say that I really couldn't care less if someone argues with me or contradicts me. In fact it can be kind of fun. And, if they do, I promise not to run and get help from a mod to scold them for it. However, they should expect a cheeky reply from me for their efforts. It's only fair, after all.

Having said that ... (my favorite nonsense segue phrase)

hoi, please allow me to draw your attention to this post:

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2390793#p2390793

As you can see I was quoted and beneath that quote some contrary or "corrective" information (or at least intended to be such) was written.

Now, let me see if I understand this. When I quote someone and then post some contrary or "corrective" information beneath that quote, I am contradicting them and I am arguing with them. And, this is bad. But, when another member does it with my quotes then it is neither a contradiction nor an argument. It is good.

Do I understand the rules correctly?
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby hoi.polloi on July 3rd, 2014, 4:57 am

Sorry I have been away. I am interested in this subject, which is why I started the thread. First, let me get this off-topic thing about moderation out of the way. I wouldn't interpret you as arguing/correcting by posting that information. I see it as you are showing the definition you are curious about and brianv is showing the definition he is curious about. I don't think this is a double-standard. I think this is just the tiniest of unimportant snits between you two. And both of you are already over it. I can see where you both were and are coming from, I think. Moving on to those definitions in question ...

I think 'occult' means hidden in its original form and that is the form we know to use it. If we imagine 'occult' means secret or hidden, it means almost the same as cryptography, which is what I am getting at in this thread.

If we are saying there is some hidden magic — like bibbidy bobbity boo magic — behind the cryptography and that is one reason why the cryptography exists, I am going to leave it to someone else to believe that. But also request that they don't try to tell others on our site their beliefs about it until they come up with some seriously impressive theory/writings on it that will not sound like David Icke hoodoo. On the other hand, if someone is saying the numbers themselves actually contain magical properties without presenting this seriously impressive science and reason-based research, we would probably ask that person to refrain from arguing about it, take a break from the site (and the Internet as a whole) and come back to us when they have that. The old "put up or shut up" thing.

I don't think you are doing that. Discussing what occult beliefs really consist of does not necessitate a long overview of all the most fantastical beliefs, but the direction of research seems a bit copypasta right now.

Just as we don't know the true nature of the WTC towers' destruction because it is hidden behind a cryptography of shiny UFO lights (signifying nothing), flashes and squibs (signifying nothing) and waves of powder flying everywhere (also signifying nothing), so too can we presume from the outset that any patterns we choose to find in a fake news story are just that: interesting, attention grabbing patterns.

It isn't as if finding the numbers adds any significance. How many times have you heard this conversation when you were a kid?

Did you hear about the 11 deaths?

Oh, 11? Hmm. 11.

Yeah, 11 people died.

How horrible.


It is almost a bizarre kind of automatic, instinctual thing we do and overlook when confirming a news story. Well, how many died? It is as if we cannot begin to grieve or even process the information until we stick a number on it.

Would it have made any difference to the average person, really, if that number had been 100? Or 10,000? Perhaps if we stick the number far, far away — say, in Africa — and then process it. What is the magic number of digits that necessitates military action?

These things are interesting to me because they involve the ways we fool ourselves without any need for intention or particularly special significance to the numbers.

The crime happened at 5:45. There were 2 witnesses. She owned 13 cats. Her favorite news station was channel 4.

With all the ways we fool ourselves, confuse ourselves and see "special" or "magic" numbers literally everywhere, how can you really assume that you can decode the cryptographic nature of the news? How do you know, if there is some secret message, as some apparently believe about the repeated use of numbers, that you alone can identify which numbers mean a specific aspect of an article has any particular significance, let alone whether or not it is fake?

We can assume at this point that all news is reviewed, edited and delivered to match the appearance of fake news if it isn't fake in the first place, anyway!

I think to be convinced that people are seeing these things where they are significant rather than where they must be out of sheer happenstance, we must get statisticians to prove it, or else show readers only the very most egregious examples without comment. I strongly feel Simon has gotten 'carried away' with the numbers and I worry about how much he is alienating people like me who want to focus on using facts, reason and science — which are the skills Simon has that attracted me to his research in the first place.

After all, there are only nine non-zero digits, and if at least three of them — 9 and 7 and 3 — are already "magical" in your imagination, that makes at least one third of all numbers "evil conspiracy" numbers and that means if an article has more numbers in it, there is a higher chance you will assume all of it is some secret code. What about 8, too? Don't forget that sinister 2. How many have we left? Look at a random weather report and see if we can find "magic" numbers. Please refrain from the temptation to tell your own fortune by "calculating" your birthday and your name and "plugging it into" the weather report if you have been in it too long.

I find it embarrassing and frustrating that we are even telling thinking adults on CluesForum to stop this kind of so-called research; at the very least if you spend more time thinking about the curvature of digital fonts and trying to find significance inside that has anything to do with finding out the nature of the psychology of the perps, come up with a solid theory with reason and science. If the numbers have a pattern to them, tell us what you at least think it is rather than identifying over and over and over that you think there may be something there. We know it's a cryptography. Decrypt it.
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby Nick Java on July 3rd, 2014, 9:12 am

trying to find significance inside that has anything to do with finding out the nature of the psychology of the perps

Hey Hoi, I hear you!

Identifying the recurring numbers really only helps in identifying the presence of the perps. They are a superstitious/religious lot that run their operations based on information given to them by psychics, astrologers, numerologists and high priests, all of which are heavily ensconced in the 'magic' of numbers, planetary allignment and the roll of dice or other mystical determinants. As far as I can tell, the presence of these numbers can tell us no more than that.

The Christian bible is a collection of chapters or "books". The Old testament has 39 (3x13) and the New Testament has 27 (3x9), 66 (2x3x11) in total. And that's just the beginning of the number play regarding Christianity. I can guarantee you that is by design. Why, because it feels good. There is comfort in the predictability of numbers. And, casting out nines has been a popular pastime for ages, it's cool how you can take a big number and reduce it to one, one that can confirm whether or not a calculation is accurate, and it's universal and easily taught to the absorbent masses. When something can be proved with arithmetic and you associate allegories with the math, in most minds it proves the story, plus it makes it easier to recall.

Here in Canada we commence the minute of silence during the celebration of Remembrance Day (a highly significant military ritual) at 11 am on the 11th day of the 11th month. (Hostilities formally ended "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month," in accordance with the Armistice, signed by representatives of Germany and the Entente http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day) Coincidence? I doubt it. Did they really wait for that time to occur? Or, did someone look at the clock just as the document was being signed and notice, "hey, it's 11:00 11/11, cool!" (Astute observers will note that they missed the opportunity to include another 11 or two. You'll have to consult with the numerologists for the reasoning behind that omission.) Just more evidence that sick f*cks are hovering in the wings, just off-stage? More than likely. Follow the smoke, it will lead us to the fire!
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby hoi.polloi on July 3rd, 2014, 8:44 pm

Nick Java wrote:Hey Hoi, I hear you!

Identifying the recurring numbers really only helps in identifying the presence of the perps. They are a superstitious/religious lot that run their operations based on information given to them by psychics, astrologers, numerologists and high priests, all of which are heavily ensconced in the 'magic' of numbers, planetary [alignment] and the roll of dice or other mystical determinants. As far as I can tell, the presence of these numbers can tell us no more than that.


My sense is that you are really onto something there. Thank you for putting it into words. Just as these people hire public relations staff because they don't understand psychology, only to think of themselves as experts when they pay the weasels; they probably also hire or associate with viziers and gurus without knowing fully what they are doing. And just like all gurus, their cosmic experts probably know enough truth to squeeze by and convince those with flimsy moral compasses, but themselves don't really know much more shit than anyone else who asks the big, deep questions.

I wonder if it is at like Hollywood movies that must constantly be invaded by every power-tripping Tom, Dick and Harry wanting to take advantage of the unprecedentedly enormous audiences that movies get of late. Everyone wants to put their 'fingerprints' in it, for a variety of reasons, and that almost universal desire for attention alone can explain both the presence of the smudges and all the attention given on them. My sense is that we might kill the beast — or at least make it make desperately stupid moves — by starving it. But then again, it seems to all be kind of in the perps' addled heads in the first place.
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby hoi.polloi on July 5th, 2014, 3:07 am

See Christianity thread: viewtopic.php?p=2390863#p2390863
For Pilgrim's refutation of Nick Java post about falseness of Bible. (I don't care; it's just a side argument)
Let's get back on topic.
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby RaoulMarz on July 12th, 2014, 1:19 pm

Hello Hoi.

I hope this is not off-topic but it relates to numbers and dates. I can not be sure that this association have not been made before, at least I haven't read something specific about this. This could also fall under the 9/11 section but this is more to do with numbers and dates and how they inter-relate.

My contention is that George Washington is associated with the number "22", and that 9/11 is associated with this number and by extension to him. Doing some research I came accross the following significant dates in his life
1. Date of Birth: 22 February 1732 (22-2-1732)
2. Date of Death: 14 December 1799
3. Date of becoming "Charter" master of Freemasonic Virginia Lodge no 22: 22 April 1788!! (22-4-1788) Also 22x4=88!
4. Battle of Brandywine: 11 September 1777: very, very significant! (11-9-1777) or (9111777
See the wikipedia articles about George Washington and Battle of Brandywine

The Battle of Brandywine is 911
The 911 of 2001 is exactly 224 years late, link to (.3)
What time the Battle of Brandywine really happen, time of actual battle? Mid-morning e.g between 9 and 10 am
Why is 911 the emergency number in USA?

Another interesting thing about the "occult" of numbers, is the numbers you get when calculating the days between 2 "coupled" significant dates.
One can use http://www.timeanddate.com to calculate "days between dates"

So here are number sets for (.3) and (.2) 14 Dec 1799 - 22 Apr 1788

11 years, 7 months, 22 days. 11 and 22 separated by 7. (Twin towers and WTC 7?)
4253 days
607 weeks

And the number set for (.2) and (.1)

67 years, 9 months, 22 days
24767 days
3538 weeks

I believe that George Washington was most likely "Illuminati". Illuminati is a secret order within the Freemasons I think. Yes I know about the death of the Bavarian Illuminati, but death has it's own significant meaning in the occult, e,g rise of the phoenix. My reasoning of linking George Washington and the Illuminati is simple, the George Washington Masonic National Memorial. The G-W-M-N-M is based on the ancient lighthouse of Pharos in Alexandria, Egypt, which was one the 7 wonders in the ancient world. What is more symbolic than a lighthouse in association with Illuminati?

Maybe someone can do Gematria on G-W-M-N-M and see if there is a number link between 9/11 and 22 (Washington)?
Last edited by hoi.polloi on July 13th, 2014, 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: This post has been locked to serve as an example of the "Gematria researchers" products.
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby fbenario on July 13th, 2014, 1:27 am

^^ Derailing Room fodder. G.Washington and the Illuminati. Oh how interesting and valuable.
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Re: Numbers and Semiotics in the News: Why?

Postby hoi.polloi on July 13th, 2014, 5:59 pm

RaoulMarz, what would you propose you mean by your use of the passive voice when you say

My contention is that George Washington is associated with the number "22", and that 9/11 is associated with this number and by extension to him. Doing some research I came [across] the following significant dates in his life


?

You do realize that "is associated" could merely refer to you yourself being distracted by your own imagination? It could mean that when your brain is busy "associating", that you have credited yourself in the passive voice and therefore invented a power that you are not being honest about — namely, the power of your own imagination that you willingly hand to the Illuminati in the self-same post a few sentence fragments later? Why must you use the passive voice, sentence fragments, random associations and other cryptic turns of speech if your research into numbers is so credible to someone other than yourself?

Please, pause your "gematria" mode and do a bit of critical thinking on your research process. Do not respond to me by running off more numbers or I will have to assume you have gone off the deep end. Please engage me on this level of thinking and show me that you are capable of thinking critically about this new kind of research you have discovered for yourself. Please, please take a moment and examine carefully what you actually just posted, line by line. And explain, in very precise terms, what you mean to imply by any of it besides loosely jumping from one topic to another, chasing numbers that interest you, then concluding with a non sequitur about the Illuminati.
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