The Holocaust Under Review

Global War deceptions & mass manipulation, fear-mongering terror schemes and propaganda in the Age of the Bomb
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Haze
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Haze » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:29 pm

@hoi.polloi
http://archive.org/details/DavidColeFr

There are french subtitles ... just ignore them ^^

hoi.polloi
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:03 am

Great movie, thanks, with some great quotes.

"Survivors and experts can be wrong."

"... Our own army and propaganda department did not sit idly by and let the Soviets have all the atrocity propaganda fun!"

The subtitles aren't even that good based on the way they heard "1989" as "1999" particularly given the movie was made before 1999. I would indeed ignore the subtitles; it's quite good in the original English. I wonder if this place still exists, where one can learn more about the videos:
vlcsnap-16462223.jpg
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anonjedi2
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by anonjedi2 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:13 am

Here's David Cole and Bradley Smith on an episode of the Phil Donahue show from 1994 with some commentary by the uploader. Cole ended up walking off during a commercial break. Things get real interesting and heated when the "witnesses" begin to tell their stories.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmNTIfoWNog


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ugVxGQ_sKc


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVOf7aWb2kA


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkF1-Ow5X8A

Part 5 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVOn_UYKio4
Part 6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRctpwcSqrI
Part 7 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXDdLntmCBQ

David Cole with Mark Weber on the Montel Williams Show - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx9G4zmpKv0

Haze
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Haze » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:33 am

If you want to know what David Cole is doing today ?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ma ... evisionist

It's interesting to see that today, he's just saying that there weren't gaz chambers in Auschwitz, but there were some in other camps. Same when he is saying that it's not 6 but 4 millions. He became a " half-revisionist ".
His new argument doesn't have any sense because he is saying : " I investigated in Auschwitz and I can tell you that there weren't gaz chambers. In the contraty, I didn't investigate in other camps but I can tell you; there were a lot ! "
Nobody can blame him, he has received a lot of dead threats in the past, from the Jewish Defense League ect for example...

simonshack
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by simonshack » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:59 pm

Haze wrote: Nobody can blame him, he has received a lot of dead threats in the past, from the Jewish Defense League ect for example...
Yeah - sure... :rolleyes:

Mon cher Haze... It should be pretty clear by now that the nerdy kid was just yet another Hollywood creation ever since day one - and a most pathetic one at that.

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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:26 pm

anonjedi2 wrote:Here's David Cole and Bradley Smith on an episode of the Phil Donahue show
Wow, this shit doesn't waste time getting subliminal on your ass.

The semi-famous white-haired man announces the topic by declaring that just the questions of whether the holocaust happened and whether a single Jew died in any gas chambers is causing "Fuhrers" (oh sorry, was that "furors"?) on campuses all across America.

Then you have the Donahue-Cole interaction which comes across as very stage managed and almost rehearsed.

When Michael Shermer (of CSICOP and Skeptic Magazine) was announced, it was all over for me believing this program was little more than another dog-and-pony show.

I guess they saw the issues with their holocaust story, decided to lead the battle for themselves and create a sort of Alex Jones hero figure in Mister Cole. But was Mister Cole genuine?

Let's look at the characters of this public play, which in all likelihood focused primarily and foremost on this exact episode of the Donahue show, though each character has been properly backstopped and prepared beforehand.
  • Donahue - loyal servant of the media, experienced host to a variety of propaganda stories, an actor, and instant living room speaker to millions of people
  • Michael Shermer - loyal servant of the hoaxed science of our past century, defender and promoter of Dinosaurs, the Holocaust, extreme Soviet-like anti-Religious stance, public relations figure
  • "Holocaust survivor" - in front row, poising herself to engage with an extremely sympathetic Donahue who suddenly collapses all ordinary boundaries of society and his own program to let her give her performance
  • Questioners - seated some distance away from one another (huff puff!) which (kind of) supports the idea that they are not plants
  • David Cole - wily student who amazingly gained access to the main scientist stationed at the Auschwitz museum and yet is suddenly thinking himself groomed for public broadcasting; did he not ask about how exactly the show would be structured since he is apparently so aware of the extent of modern day propaganda?
  • Brad Smith - hapless professor-type (like our modern day Kevin Barrett, Jim Fetzer, etc.) using crass and gimmicky methods of getting negative attention (almost as if to 'gather a herd' to his eventual appearance on the Donahue show) and who ineffectually handles the emotional posturing of the program and is also poorly groomed for public broadcasting, but could he be genuine?
If Cole or Smith (the smith shoveling coal, fueling the fire, burning bodies ... ?) were not aware of how they were used in this play, they would certainly become aware and should loudly protest the media that was turned against them at this show. Or maybe that is an impolite judge of what anyone would do in their situation. Perhaps they find it more effective to schmooze with the Hollywood folks. Where are they now?

We see Cole's reappearance (as recent as last month?) has been rather Wikileaks-ish and "denier lite". As for Brad Smith, well, perhaps he just never learned how to deal with his infamy. If these quotes are taken out of context or if they're meant to stand for what Holocaust questioners should all sound like when we think of them, Wikidpedia certainly focuses on his most manipulative-sounding statements:
“I don’t want to spend time with adults anymore, I want to go to students. They are superficial. They are empty vessels to be filled.”
“What I wanted to do was I wanted to set forth three or four ideas that students might be interested in, that might cause them to think about things or to have questions about things. And I wanted to make it as simple as possible, and to set it up in a way that could not really be debated
Unsurprisingly, Brad Smith only gets a sort of mini entry under Anti-semitism. But it is an entry. I could go either way on this. Are they unlucky? Are they pawns? Actors? Some of the evidence seems pretty good. Is it bait? Did they snatch it up before others picked up on the weakness of the holocaust story? "Lead the opposition" mantra making itself known in the debate? What do y'all make of this site of Smith's: http://codoh.com/ ?

Haze
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Haze » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:54 pm

simonshack wrote:
Haze wrote: Nobody can blame him, he has received a lot of dead threats in the past, from the Jewish Defense League ect for example...
Yeah - sure... :rolleyes:

Mon cher Haze... It should be pretty clear by now that the nerdy kid was just yet another Hollywood creation ever since day one - and a most pathetic one at that.
I was just saying what I read about David Cole. I must say that I'm not interested on this guy, on Bradley Smith ect
Maybe you are right, and the fact that this guy disappeared during 20 years go in your way.

But since Paul Rassinier, most of the significant revisionists are french so I don't need to go elsewhere.
In every case, David Cole is unimportant in revisionism, and a man like Vincent Reynouard ( Robert Faurisson's padawan in some way ) deserve more attention.

hoi.polloi
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:09 pm

According to this generous appraisal of Vincent Reynouard, the man is a kind of Nazi who approves of Germany's support of Hitler, and he describes his work as a kind of huge drama between the forces of good and evil.

http://revisionists.com/revisionists/reynouard.html
"The German homicidal gas chambers never existed. Yes, 'the Holocaust' is a myth. For my part, I add: Yes, Hitler embodied the hope of Europe in the face of the ruinous ideals of 1789; Yes, we must take up the best of what National Socialism comprised in order finally to surpass it and forge a doctrine that will be able to save our Old Continent."
I can see why evidence against the Holocaust might be ignored if it's led by people like those who have so far been mentioned. Robert Faurisson's story sounds noble by comparison.

Why do people who are convinced the holocaust is negative propaganda turn into propagandists for a militarism in the other direction? Sometimes, I am reminded of the metaphor for humanity that says something like: mankind is a rider who, in trying to mount a horse, continually falls off the other side.

Haze
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Haze » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:26 pm

I'm far away of Reynouard idelology, but his studies about revisionism are very strong.
Now, if you take some quotes, deprived of any sense, to judge someone...
About the good and evil, he went in jail, and maybe will go in again soon, because I think you know that in France, you go in jail to be a revisionist.
So in some way, a believer like him can compare his work for the truth at a work for the good versus the evil.

But he is far away of a " NAZI " like we understand this word, he don't say " germans were angels " or shit like that.

Just see his work about Oradour event, to understand that he is not a clown.

Now, I admit that he can't be the guy who will " generalize " revisionism, because his ideology is far away of the one who rule our world, rule our minds !

Just don't judge people too quickly, like you sometimes do it here !

PS : Faurisson was a guy which is completly neutral on the subject, he never turned the subject on any kind of propaganda, despite of all the press right about him.
Did he generalize the subject ? I don't think so. Internet did it !

hoi.polloi
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by hoi.polloi » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Well, even some of David Cole's points seem strong to me but I am new to this realm of historical revisionism. I can see how there might be some serious gatekeeping going on in all of this subject as well.

Anyhow, thanks for the names. I am not judging too quickly, but I am not concerned about doing so either. I think the truth stands for itself and all of these folks could collectively comprise the latest hints about where to begin Holocaust research.

Robert Faurisson and Vincent Reynouard are interesting characters. I am intrigued. From the little I've just read, Faurisson seems like a cool cat. I like his focus on facts.

anonjedi2
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by anonjedi2 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:02 pm

hoi,

Interesting observations and valid points. I hadn't really thought of the angle that Cole could just be another controlled opposition agent, but that is certainly an angle worth considering. He seems honest and genuine to me but again, you do raise some valid questions. Thanks for always keeping me on my toes and helping me to think outside of the box!

Critical Mass
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Critical Mass » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:08 am

I've heard a lot of very silly Holocaust stories but this one from a 1945 Newspaper was new to me. Thought I'd share it...
Women As Sheep Flock

LONDON, Sep. 5 (A.A.P.) — . Hitler's Storm Troopers kept a great flock of women prisoners at Ravensbruck concentration camp (north-east of Berlin) to aid the German war machine. Thousands of women, most of them Jewesses and French, had their hair sheared like sheep. The hair was sent to war plants. Throughout the war the women were periodically herded in a 'shearing room' where their heads were cropped. As they grew new hair they were returned to the room to be sheared again. The French War Crimes Commission announces that this was revealed when two former women S.S. guards at the camp were captured. The guards admitted that during the war 200, 000 women and children were killed, at Ravensbruck.

MsQ
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by MsQ » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:29 pm

Does anyone know how many gas chambers there were said to be in Germany during WW2? I can't seem to find a set number.
I read the following 2 sentences in a class I'm taking which made me curious:

The German state annihilated approximately six million Jews. At the rate of 100 per day this would have required nearly 200 years.

I'm curious about breaking down the maths. I have read that there were 20 mobile gas chambers for a while that could be used for up to 40 people at a time, and that some of the stationary chambers could hold up to 2,000 people. But no actual figures of how many gas chambers there were. I also wonder what the time frame was for getting people in there, gassing them, and getting them out again. I guess a gas chamber that could hold 2,000 would be efficient by nazi standards, except that it strikes me moving 2,000 bodies out afterwards could not be an easy task. The time spent doing so would slow down the process of gassing the next 2,000 people.
I'm just curious to see it all added up.

Flabbergasted
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:42 pm

Now some coot pretending to be an ex-SS has come forth, eager to be tried for "the murder of 300,000 Jews".
Oskar Gröning was a German SS-Private (Rottenführer) at Auschwitz. Gröning's responsibilities included sorting and counting the multitude of currencies taken from arriving deportees and sending it to Berlin, and attending the selection process, not to decide who was to be killed but to guard the belongings of arrivals until they were sorted. He said he was astonished to learn of the extermination process, but later accepted his part in it, stating that his work became "routine" after several months. For the first time Gröning decided to speak openly about his experiences, and publicly denounce people who maintain the events he witnessed never happened. Gröning was an SS guard at Auschwitz from 1942-1944.

full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiuAM7zYhhs

As usual, witness accounts are held up as absolute proof, in stark opposition to forensic evidence (or lack of same), common sense and physical laws. If holocaust witnesses say pigs can fly, who are we to invoke the authority of farmers and textbooks on zoology?

I take this silly twist as a sign that the Holocaustic Church is losing parishioners ... fast.

Flabbergasted
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Re: The Holocaust: propaganda, censorship and media fakery

Unread post by Flabbergasted » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:04 pm

Every prison camp had crematories with two or three berths. Indeed, it would be impractical, unsafe or outright impossible to bury anyone within the camp perimeter. If the information provided by S. E. Castan (http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.ph ... &p=2384481) is correct, it takes at least 90 minutes to cremate a corpse. Thus, assuming uninterrupted operation (hard to picture, though), 48 corpses could be disposed of in 24 hours, a capacity which seems large enough even in times of cholera and typhus epidemics.

But, curiously, the word "crematory" has come to mean "gas chamber" in the holocaust lore. It´s Krema this and Krema that. I realize that in some cases the crematory was supposed to be contiguous with the "gas chamber" (good luck with that!), but I wonder if there is a scarcity of believable "gas chambers" (like the air shelter in Auschwitz) to show tourists visiting the converted concentration camps. The association of the word "crematory" with the idea of execution is a rhetorical trick.

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