THE NUKE HOAX

Global War deceptions & mass manipulation, fear-mongering terror schemes and propaganda in the Age of the Bomb
Macaria
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Macaria »

Dear Simon,

What I’m saying is: while we have very good reason to question the number of Hiroshima / Nagasaki bombing victims and the various bomb accounts, I believe there were real victims of a real bombing and I want to be careful not to overstate victim fakery.

Yes, I became aware of Thurlow via this thread.
**********

I have found a few other bits and pieces:

Similar to the accounts in my previous post, she says that the bomb blast had this effect on her:
https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/06/19 ... _view.html

"I felt I was swimming or floating in the air. I guess my body was thrown."

Similarly she says that her
https://nationalpost.com/news/this-is-w ... ears-later

"body started floating through the air"

And apart from the eyeball and gut afflictions, according to her, bomb victims' "hair was standing on end"

Besides her questionable claims, her high renown and high level of media attention are reasons enough for suspicion. She appears to be one of the most high profile anti-nuke campaigners out there and as noted was rewarded with a UN prize and all.

About her husband.

The second source above describes James Thurlow very modestly as “a high school history teacher in Toronto”
He was more than that.

https://www.legacy.com/ca/obituaries/th ... =150611603
In 1952 Jim responded to the call of the United Church of Canada to teach in Japan at Kwansei Gakuin, a United Church related school. He spent eight happy years teaching English at the high school and history at the university.
(…)
In 1962 Jim returned to Toronto with his family where he had an opportunity to teach at Don Mills Collegiate Institute, and thoroughly enjoyed his teaching career as the Head of the History department until his retirement in 1991. He challenged students to think critically, both in the classroom and during many study tours to the USSR during the Cold War, as well as to other European, Asian and African countries. Deeply concerned about Canada's silence over the intensifying nuclear arms race, he became instrumental in mobilizing concerned colleagues in the mid-1970s to organize a disarmament education group, Hiroshima - Nagasaki Relived, with the support of the mayors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Toronto. He established the James and Setsuko Thurlow Scholarship in Peace and Disarmament Studies at the University of British Columbia. (…)Indeed he was a man of global vision and local action.
So he was also a big anti-nuke campaigner, a globetrotter and a people mobiliser. I note that he was teaching history in a recently defeated Japan in what was an important period for establishing / standardising the recent historical record. And though it might have been innocent and all, not too many ordinary westerners visited the USSR, less still on multiple occasions. Sounds a little spooky to me.

Finally, Setsuko Thurlow is distantly related by marriage to current Japanese PM Kishida, whose family includes many politicians - according to Kishida's Japanese wakipedia page.
サーロー節子(反核運動家、従叔祖父・岸田人見の義妹、8親等)
Goggle translation: Setsuko Thurlow (Anti-nuclear activist, sister-in-law of Hitomi Kishida, 8th degree)

Bonus beat

Star Trek’s George Takei is a more distant Kishida connection.
ジョージ・タケイ(俳優、従叔祖父・岸田人見の義甥、9親等)
George Takei (actor, nephew-in-law of Hitomi Kishida, ninth degree)

I don’t know how close this makes Thurlow and Takei
Macaria
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Macaria »

And now for some Australiana, nuclear style.

Follow this link to find a short clip of one of the alleged Australian Maralinga nuclear detonations.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-10/ ... 101310032
Which detonation? The ABC do not bother to tell us.

We get 4 whole seconds of bomb, with typically poor production values- crappy audio, crappy video and crappy drama.
Do the vocals match up with the reaction of the soldiers? (no)
And don't those guys look amazed at the spectacle! (They don't)
Mansur
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Mansur »

Macaria wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:57 pm The cliché that Japanese culture is very conformist is broadly true and most Japanese feel the pressure to conform keenly. This desire to ‘fit in’ coupled with a pariah status attributed to anyone considered radiation affected created a climate where one would dare let it be known that they were even in Hiroshima on the day, let alone were impacted by the bombing.
The proverbial conformism of the Japanese (and the Far East in general) has nothing to do with the propaganda-dominated (Western) situation today.

The 'national character' which is used to be proud of is entirely a product of propaganda (even if it seems derogatory to some, to a Yankee perhaps, to think about it for a moment or two). And I don't think any fool would consider Japan anything other than a Western country.

That 'cliché' is mainly based on, or comes from, their traditional way of life. And ‘traditional’ means that it is a practice that has been built up, or rather cultivated, over centuries, sanctioned and consciously maintained by many-many generations, - and which has no ‘dark secrets’ behind it...(to expose). Presumably, there is nothing of that today!!!

The fact that the 'Land of the Rising Sun' has become 'Westernised' in its entirety and for quite some time now, can perhaps be taken as symbolic. (The Americans burnt up the whole country, some sixty plus cities, among them the famous two - it is not impossible that one of the important aims of the never-ending propaganda about these two cities was to divert attention to them, to 'moral considerations' concerning Americans’ responsibility, etc. The subsequent 'invasion' could perhaps be described as propagandist rather than military in nature. And the so-called 'Japanese miracle' was in the making...)


On the other hand: all peoples, without exception, simply as such, as people, are necessarily 'conformists', i.e. they inevitably adapt to the status quo, the system of power. There must be a minority in power (democracy is nonsense), but there is no need for them to be villains. At least in the past, this was always an exception, and was considered to be so, - but now it seems to be the law... In other words, everyone (in their hearts) feels and thinks it is normal. But I digress.

The fact that the Japanese had some kind of conformist tradition should actually be a reason rather for some kind of hope (that something of it might still exist there), because this 'conformism' (as a culture, or part of it, i.e. as a conscious practice) refers to externals, to the learning of external rules and their conscious routine observances, - and to the equally (or more) conscious routine detachment of these externals from everything that is not external... (The western mass propaganda, in the first place, if not so consciously, but maybe even with a more secure sense, is perhaps aimed at this very faculty of perception.) What I mean here is that it is perhaps to be assumed that the vigilance on this matter might be much broader there than in the West, but that in the same time it does not and cannot, ipso facto, appear on any media platform. Quite certainly not in an explicit way. One is not willing to mingle with those launched for muddying the waters.


If you don't mind, Macaria, I'd like to ask -
- what makes you think there are such things as bona fide witness testimonies.*
- Why the 'confiscation of documents' and the fact that no particular mention of it is made seems so new or unusual to you.
- Why do you think that in the decades since then even a single non propaganda book on ‘nuclear weapons’ has been or could be published.
- The 'pariah status' referred to above is not clear to me: did this mean lengthy and compulsory hospital care or something similar, or that people treated him as an infectious person and dangerous to come into direct contact with? I have not heard of such a thing, and while I would not want to pre-judge, it is rather suspicious, it seems to bear the hallmarks of a 'post-publicity' treatment. It also, incidentally, seems to contradict that very conformism. (If, before the cities were burned, they were first evacuated, as I believe they were -- although I haven't dealt with the subject for quite some time, but it seems logical enough, since it eliminates tens of thousands of ('surviving') eyewitnesses whose accounts would be more or less consistent with each other, and not the cavalcade that the official eyewitness accounts provide -- well, then such a 'pariah status story' from the propaganda side seems pretty familiar, doesn't it?)

* Why do you think that any plausible or even meaningful estimate can be made as to how much of the testimony - both collectively and separately - is real or realistic; - that ultimately, and to some extent, it can be inferred from it as to "what really happened"? Were the propagandists that stupid and inconsistent?
simonshack wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:52 pm
(‘Hiroshima: Before and After’)
This guy calls himself father of nuclear revisionism, and as far as the Internet is concerned, he's probably right. But why do we think there was no world before the internet? That is a very long thread (from an old archived forum, in one single file), longer than this one, and besides the 'bomb' it deals quite a lot with the circumstances of the Japanese economic boom.

(And commentators occasionally amuse themselves with such old conundrums:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bibp4gp7im5z6 ... x.jpg?dl=0 )
Macaria
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Macaria »

Hi Mansur,

Thanks for your questions.

I don’t know what you mean by “westernised”. Japan is an (overtly) occupied country for sure and absolutely part of the NWO. In what sense is Japan a western country?
The Americans burnt up the whole country, some sixty plus cities, among them the famous two - it is not impossible that one of the important aims of the never-ending propaganda about these two cities was to divert attention to them
Yes, the Hiroshima / Nagasaki stories primarily get attention because they prop up the nuke mythology. And in all that noise, other bombings, though more devastating, are forgotten. However, even though there is so much focus on the nukings, it is most often framed as though it were natural disaster. So the US get little flak for Hiroshima Nagasaki anyway...

Responding to your questions:

-As long as I see a possibility of genuine Hiroshima / Nagasaki bomb victims / witnesses of some sort, then there is the possibility of genuine testimonies. Should I dismiss this possibility? This is separate to the question of determining what really happened, to which I am in agreement with you; trawling the testimonies would be an unprofitable labour.

-The case of censorship highlighted above is not so “new or unusual”. However, I do think it is an important part of the evidence of hoaxery. Folk here at Clues Forum have done an admirable job of examining alleged A-bomb detonation videos and exposing the scientific hoaxsters etc. So, as we well know, the A-bomb is fakety fake and therefore censorship and history fabrication necessarily must have occurred. I think it is worthwhile to document evidence of this where it exists.

-Not sure what you are asking here. My answer: The press / publishers are tightly controlled. In the case of Japan, they were under direct military style censorship for years after - until the occupiers were sure they had a secure regime and a secure control of history.

- My point about Japanese type conformity is that being seen as an outsider, even to a small degree, is very undesirable. To be in a bomb affected area would make one an outsider to a large degree because of the radiation fears. No one would associate with a person with such a history, for even if they did not fear the radiation, they would become an outsider by association. Therefore, this, apart from any other forms of censorship, would help ensure that no one openly discuss their own bomb history. I acknowledged in my earlier post that this fear of radiation may have been deliberately promulgated.

I don’t discount the possibility the cities were completely evacuated. The cities were at least population depleted: many men were away to fight for the country, and it is a common story that, usually children, were moved out to family in the countryside to get away from bombs and for better access to food.
Note that there were tens of thousands of Germans that worked at the alleged death camps who would have had consistent and contradictory stories to the now accepted history. This appears to have been little trouble for the creation of what has been claimed to be the “most studied area of history”. Point being that a complete evacuation would not have been necessary to establish the currently accepted version of events.

Thanks for the forum link you provided - very interesting. From 2004!
Mansur
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Mansur »

Macaria wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:37 pmI don’t know what you mean by “westernised”. Japan is an (overtly) occupied country for sure and absolutely part of the NWO. In what sense is Japan a western country?
Strange you ask that. In what sense it is not? - Democracy, modern science and technocracy, modern laws and administration, compulsory education western both in methods and stuff, 'pop-culture' (it may be added items to make the list more complete, you already mentioned press-media-propaganda*): these are what western life is organized around. (And that is really a 'brand new world', but as to its being an 'order' in any sense whatsoever, I am a denier.)
* Poor Orwell, with his primitive 'thought-police' fantasies!!

'Should I dismiss…?' – I don't know. But why to maintain it? It makes no particular difference whether some of the eyewitness testimony is bona fide or all of it is fabricated or manipulated, at least I don't see any difference, do you?

Then: there is absolutely no need to know or find out, separately or otherwise, 'what really happened'! (Even if that were possible at all.) That's exactly the job they leave to the controlled guys! It would indeed be 'unprofitable' to follow their example.
________

The problem with documentation is I think that if you document or want to document the lack of documentation, it cannot but give wings to some fantasy as to the content of that documentation. And perhaps similar thoughts like this have already crossed the minds of some propagandists... 'The case cannot be closed until all, perhaps the most important witness testimony is found and checked'...and such like. The confiscation story* too can be fake or faked, can't it?
* - or at least the presentation of it; the attitude being what determines everything not the 'facts' so-called. It is always a curious thing by the way what people in their carelessness call fact.

The ingenuity of the controlled guys is not to be underestimated, even if they do their job for the most part apparently routinely; they use mostly the old tried and tested scientific method so-called to gain credit and dissuade people from trying to use their own brains and follow their own methods (or instrument) of research - and especially to sharpen the power and trustworthiness of their intuition, without which there is little worth in human life.

Besides knowing that the 'atomic bomb' is a hoax (as is any other 'application' of modern nuclear physics, for that matter), there is hardly anything we need to know! More data, more research, as we see most of the time, leads people back to a 'prior standing' of, say, 'skepticism'; - I think by now pretty much everyone has forgotten how he or she actually 'changed his or her mind' on this issue, namely that it was primarily not based on information). The 'conspiracy attitude', which is pretty much synonymous to 'skepticism', is what makes one really an 'outsider' and the propagandists presumably know that very much.

In my opinion all such books are only worth discussing in terms of their propagandistic content/intent – and not of their 'good points', - the very first thing to clear up in dealing with any of them.
_____________

This 'pariah status' (this time as 'outsider') is, as I said above, new to me, can you provide some source for this, please? - We know that the radiation story developed much later (otherwise they would indeed have had to start evacuating immediately - and leave the most precious port for good), this being certainly one of the main contradictions / nonsense in the narrative.

As to the 'Japanese type conformity' again: does that differ in any degree from other 'types'? Since as you actually apply it to the 1945 bomb story, seems to show no difference at all. The same (western) picture of all-powerful propaganda we are all familiar with.
_______________

Lastly, there seems to be a considerable difference between 'tens of thousands of German soldiers' throughout a rather vast area in the middle of Europe and tens of thousands local inhabitant at the very same site – knowing nothing of the 'big bang'.* (I think not so much of their 'accounts' potentials but their very existence.) And, by the way, the existing photos feature extremely few people, and of course no piles of dead bodies. They all evaporated, it seems. Or rather they 'teleported' – 'to north from west and to west from north' – as one might assume. (As the Jews in, or from, Europe around the same period.)
* I read somewhere that the Japanese were the last to learn that they had been hit by a new super-weapon; the whole western world throughout was already horrified by press reports that the poor Japs had heard nothing about for quite some time.

But it's very fortunate of you to bring up these German soldiers: well, nobody asked them. Or at least, nobody listened to them. Why would they? Is it censorship not to ask those who might actually have something to say? - Perhaps this could be applied to the other 'points'.


'The most studied area of history' - they seem to be quite right with that phrase, and indeed that is what 'study' or 'history' looks like at its highest (?) point of development.
________________________
Mansur
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Mansur »

It was some years ago that I read Karel Čapek's books - as much as I could get my hands on…

While I know that he had an absolute respect for H. G. Wells and did much to establish a personal relationship with him, he was certainly a far more significant writer on his own, rather than allowing one to assume any outside influence in his choice of subject.

I mention him here because it can illustrate how much the penetration of atomic physics into the imagination of people, i.e. in art and through art, preceded the self-evident nature of everyday press reports. That people began to expect more and more from matter, from within matter, or from the inside of matter, as it were, to find solutions to social situations… For there was plenty to be resolved! And if one is an artist, this will necessarily play a role in his work. ('Space travel' also has considerable records, - it certainly didn't spring from Clarke's mind, - and in general: nothing springs from the minds of such people!)

Perhaps there are several books of his that could be mentioned, but two of them definitely seem to belong here. I couldn't find a description of the first one, only about the movie (1948!) based on it:
https://www.amazon.com/Krakatit-Skola-o ... B00KA6ZLBW

Based on a novel by Karel Capek, a prominent Czech writer of the early 20th century, who coined the word robot for his play R.U.R., the story revolves around a discovery of Krakatit-a powerful explosive by Prokop, the main character of the movie. After an accidental explosion in the lab, exhausted Prokop slips in and out of dream-like hallucinations. He later realizes that in his altered state of consciousness he had given the formula for making Krakatit to one of his colleagues, and he tries to stop its spread before it is too late. But there are too many dark, powerful forces interested in the ultimate explosive.

Image

[The book itself is available online:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Krakatit ]
The other one has a wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Absolute_at_Large

The story centers on the invention of a reactor that can annihilate matter to produce cheap and abundant energy. Unfortunately, it produces something else as a by-product, the absolute. The absolute is a spiritual essence that according to some religious philosophies permeates all matter. It is associated with human religious experience, as an unsuspecting humanity is to find out all too soon in the story. The widespread adoption of the reactors cause an enormous outpouring of pure absolute into the world. This leads to an outburst of religious and nationalist fervor, causing the greatest, most global war in history….

Absolute does more than affect minds. It also does physical work. During the war, it causes catastrophes against the enemy (various parts of absolute support any given side in the conflict). At some point, it also becomes interested in production of material goods and produces them, in a supernatural manner, in enormous quantities. This leads to economic collapse and, absurdly enough, deficit of all manufactured items because, allegedly, once the price of goods has dropped to zero because of absolute, nobody cares to produce or distribute them any more. Starvation is averted because although absolute does not produce food, the peasants who do naturally do not let the price drop to zero. In fact they force every last penny from the urban population in return for food, hence saving humanity.
anonjedi2
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by anonjedi2 »

Hiroshima Revisited - The evidence that napalm and mustard gas helped fake the atomic bombings.

by Michael Palmer
PDF - 317 Pages
Attachments
Hiromshima Revisited.pdf
(4.99 MiB) Downloaded 200 times
Mansur
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Mansur »

anonjedi2 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:28 pm Hiroshima Revisited - The evidence that napalm and mustard gas helped fake the atomic bombings.

by Michael Palmer
PDF - 317 Pages
Yes, the book is about the 'faking'. - And not about the hoax!
And if anyone is curious enough, the book will even tell him what a real nuclear explosion is like!!
So it's a bit like when paleontologists complain that fraudsters are ruining their science with their fake dinosaurs.

https://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p ... 1#p2414781
Rusty ’dropped a link’ to it (from Henry Makow site) already.
Macaria
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Macaria »

Whether one thinks the highlighting of a certain narrative is worthwhile or not is a matter of perspective.
Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am Besides knowing that the 'atomic bomb' is a hoax (...), there is hardly anything we need to know!
I understand if anyone is over the bomb.
In my case, I’m interested in these ‘atomic’ bombing events. And this fakery is still pretty new to me.
Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am The confiscation story* too can be fake or faked, can't it?
Hmmm. Were there ever any of these materials in the first place? I think yes, because hospitals keep records. But the material didn’t fit the narrative, so, confiscation or not, it had to go. There must have also been a photographic record, and that has surely been disappeared. So, the story is at least partially true, even if misleading.

‘Knowing’ as we claim, that the bombs are fake, (better to say that there is no good evidence of their existence), necessarily implies information suppression - no surprises there. However, evidence that illustrates this is uncommon. So, even at face value, the story is useful, because it is an admitted break down in the chain of evidence -(and I don't think many researchers have highlighted the fact there are no newspaper photos of the bombed city (cities?) to be found).
Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am In my opinion all such books are only worth discussing in terms of their propagandistic content/intent – and not of their 'good points'
I recognise this is a sound approach. Reflecting on this, I focus on the fact that the book I cited must have passed through the censor and moreover, may have been completely coached / ghost written. So the whole confiscation account may be a carefully and plausibly crafted story to nicely explain the fact of the missing material.

Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am This 'pariah status' (this time as 'outsider') is, as I said above, new to me, can you provide some source for this, please?
As I said, this idea is common in the literature. Wakipi’s Hibakusha entry has a sub-section for it:
Discrimination

Hibakusha and their children were (and still are) victims of severe discrimination when it comes to prospects of marriage or work due to public ignorance about the consequences of radiation sickness, with much of the public believing it to be hereditary or even contagious.
This repeatedly comes up in ‘hibakusha’ life stories. (I'm not saying this makes it all true BTW).
Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am As to the 'Japanese type conformity' again: does that differ in any degree from other 'types'?
Do you mean from conformity in other cultures? Yes. I said it was a more powerful force than in many other cultures. This is a widely held stereotype, yes, but it is also my experience.

Regarding Japan and westernism, I kind of see what you are driving at:
Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am Democracy, modern science and technocracy, modern laws and administration, compulsory education western both in methods and stuff, 'pop-culture' (it may be added items to make the list more complete, you already mentioned press-media-propaganda*): these are what western life is organized around.
Japanese society/governmental structures have adopted these things. These things (perhaps all – but how to judge what are ‘modern’ laws and administration?) originated in the “west”. Therefore, you are saying, Japan is westernised.

However, I don’t think using “western” in those terms is descriptively useful. Trains were first developed in the west. India has trains. Therefore India is a little bit westernised. Add up a lot of technical innovations that began in the west (this can include education and government systems) India adopts them. That means India is 'a lot' westernised. Maybe. I don't think so.

Moreover these metrics would make most countries of the world more or less western. It would mean Japan is more western than some western nations. It would also mean that western countries of the past would not have been very western – no pop-culture, no technocracy no modern science for starters, but then gradually became more western. But then they could drop them and become...what? Now, that doesn't make much sense.

As for “in what sense is Japan not (western)” – arts, aesthetics psychology, group dynamics, customs, religious practices a lot of stuff. Even things that superficially appear familiar (or western) to people of other countries are actually distinctly different.

I liked this point:
Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am 'The most studied area of history' - they seem to be quite right with that phrase, and indeed that is what 'study' or 'history' looks like at its highest (?) point of development.
And what with all the past and upcoming Hollywood filmery about it and with the holocaust memorials springing up in a city near you, it is only becoming more and more studied!
Mansur
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Mansur »

Hi Macaria, -

Sorry, but you seem somewhat 'cherry-picking' in your response.

I certainly did not want to hold you back in your research, I just wanted to make it clear that this is not, in my opinion, a risk-free activity, at least as far as the happy outcome is concerned, - which is obviously not the search itself. Some of your wording seems over-cautious, as if you are among people who have hostile feelings about the matter and who despite of this you would have to convince of something.
____________________________

The hibakusha thing is indeed a 'gold mine' for those who want to study propaganda in its bottom trawling activity. The few articles I have seen all call it 'story' or 'history'.

I haven't dived into the mire of statistical data, but one of them says:
As of 2016, an estimated 174,000 hibakusha remain alive today. They and their descendants still face discrimination in Japan, particularly with marriage. Many continue to conceal the truth of their history and the suffering that their families endured.
The figure seems to me to suggest that this particular radiation was extremely beneficial to health, - and of course that this story-line is certainly not about to end in the near future.
_____________________________________
Macaria wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:52 pm Regarding Japan and westernism, I kind of see what you are driving at:
Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am Democracy, modern science and technocracy, modern laws and administration, compulsory education western both in methods and stuff, 'pop-culture' (it may be added items to make the list more complete, you already mentioned press-media-propaganda*): these are what western life is organized around.
Japanese society/governmental structures have adopted these things. These things (perhaps all – but how to judge what are ‘modern’ laws and administration?) originated in the “west”. Therefore, you are saying, Japan is westernised.

However, I don’t think using “western” in those terms is descriptively useful. Trains were first developed in the west. India has trains. Therefore India is a little bit westernised. Add up a lot of technical innovations that began in the west (this can include education and government systems) India adopts them. That means India is 'a lot' westernised. Maybe. I don't think so.

Moreover these metrics would make most countries of the world more or less western. It would mean Japan is more western than some western nations. It would also mean that western countries of the past would not have been very western – no pop-culture, no technocracy no modern science for starters, but then gradually became more western. But then they could drop them and become...what? Now, that doesn't make much sense.

As for “in what sense is Japan not (western)” – arts, aesthetics psychology, group dynamics, customs, religious practices a lot of stuff. Even things that superficially appear familiar (or western) to people of other countries are actually distinctly different.
You seem to forget that 'western' here is just a word for modernity or modernism.

The fact that modernism developed in the West obviously has its reasons, but whatever they may be, that does not make it specifically Western. In other words, modernism is not part of Western culture. The fact that we see nothing today, far or near, but the products of this 'modernism', does not mean that we should call it culture. And if you say that 'by this logic' Japan is more western than many countries in the West, I would reply that this is indeed the case, and that it also applies to 'culture'.

You use the term adoption in two places: I think - without going into detail here - that 'adoption' of the means also means adoption of the ends for which these means were created. And if anywhere, it is necessary here to weed out the stubborn propaganda slogans from one's own mind. And, by the way, the nature (and history) of these 'adoptions' might be worth a thought or two.
________________________
Macaria wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:52 pm I liked this point:
Mansur wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:52 am 'The most studied area of history' - they seem to be quite right with that phrase, and indeed that is what 'study' or 'history' looks like at its highest (?) point of development.
And what with all the past and upcoming Hollywood filmery about it and with the holocaust memorials springing up in a city near you, it is only becoming more and more studied!
I'm not clear on your reaction, - I meant literally the intellectual and scholarly study of the matter - of any matter.
Macaria
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by Macaria »

Journalist William L. Laurence, born Leib Wolf Siew in the Russian empire, was the one journalist chosen to be the official historian of the Manhattan project, to witness the Trinity test and to document the Nagasaki bombing.
Of the latter readers can judge for themselves whether he was chosen to give an objective historical account or rather for his dramatic prose and inventive fantastic imagery.

His full account: https://www.atomicarchive.com/resources ... asaki.html

Brief extracts:
EYE WITNESS ACCOUNT
ATOMIC BOMB MISSION OVER NAGASAKI


[...]

Somewhere beyond these vast mountains of white clouds ahead of me there lies Japan, the land of our enemy. In about four hours from now one of its cities, making weapons of war for use against us will be wiped off the map by the greatest weapon ever made by man. In one-tenth of a millionth of a second, a fraction of time immeasurable by any clock, a whirlwind from the skies will pulverize thousands of its buildings and tens of thousands of its inhabitants.

[...]

Does one feel any pity or compassion for the poor devils about to die? Not when one thinks of Pearl Harbor and of the death march on Bataan.

[...]

We flew southward down the channel and at 11:33 crossed the coastline and headed straight for Nagasaki about a hundred miles to the west. Here again we circled until we found an opening in the clouds. It was 12:01 and the goal of our mission had arrived.

We heard the pre-arranged signal on our radio, put on our ARC welder's glasses and watched tensely the maneuverings of the strike ship about half a mile in front of us.

"There she goes!" someone said. Out of the belly of the Artiste what looked like a black object came downward.

We removed our glasses after the first flash but the light still lingered on, a bluish-green light that illuminated the entire sky all around. A tremendous blast wave struck our ship and made it tremble from nose to tail. This was followed by four more blasts in rapid succession, each resounding like the boom of cannon fire hitting our plane from all directions.

Observers in the tail of our ship saw a giant ball of fire rise as though from the bowels of the earth, belching forth enormous white smoke rings. Next they saw a giant pillar of purple fire, 10,000 feet high, shooting skyward with enormous speed.

[...]
Awe-struck, we watched it shoot upward like a meteor coming from the earth instead of from outer space, becoming ever more alive as it climbed skyward through the white clouds. It was no longer smoke, or dust, or even a cloud of fire. It was a living thing, a new species of being, born right before our incredulous eyes.

At one stage of its evolution, covering missions of years in terms of seconds, the entity assumed the form of a giant square totem pole, with its base about three miles long, tapering off to about a mile at the top. Its bottom was brown, its center was amber, its top white. But it was a living totem pole, carved with many grotesque masks grimacing at the earth.

Then, just when it appeared as though the thing has settled down into a state of permanence, there came shooting out of the top a giant mushroom that increased the height of the pillar to a total of 45,000 feet. The mushroom top was even more alive than the pillar, seething and boiling in a white fury of creamy foam, sizzling upwards and then descending earthward, a thousand old faithful geysers rolled into one.

It kept struggling in an elemental fury, like a creature in the act of breaking the bonds that held it down. In a few seconds it had freed itself from its gigantic stem and floated upward with tremendous speed, its momentum carrying into the stratosphere to a height of about 60,000 feet.

But no sooner did this happen when another mushroom, smaller in size than the first one, began emerging out of the pillar. It was as though the decapitated monster was growing a new head.

As the first mushroom floated off into the blue it changed its shape into a flower-like form, its giant petal curving downward, creamy white outside, rose-colored inside. It still retained that shape when we last gazed at it from a distance of about 200 miles.
A real sciency account by the pulitzer prize winning science reporter...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I saw a cool nuclear bomb video in science class in the 90s. It had bomb test footage that many have seen: I'm pretty sure it had the the jellyfish explosion that we all know and love as well as images of the model houses being destroyed, trees flexing in slo mo and I recall myself and classmates having a chuckle at the scene where pigs had supposedly been blown up. But there was also a part about radiation injuries that I have not heard of elsewhere.
My recollection is that the subjects filmed were supposed to be soldiers who had suffered severe radiation poisoning. Now this is pretty weird, but I swallowed this crap at the time... I recall one of these soldiers in particular whose hand had swollen hideously to about 1.5 to 2 times normal size! The hand looked real weird: big and chunky, but flat - like it had been leveled with a rolling pin, the shape was wrong, and the texture looked spongy, and, I think now, nothing like a real hand at all. The only other injury I recall was a man with a gigantic thigh.
I'd be interested to know if anyone has seen this film and could confirm my hazy memory, or better yet could track it down online. I can understand why the film may not be in circulation any more - the special effects are just so poor (worse than the bomb simulations).
sharpstuff
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Posts: 297
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by sharpstuff »

My dear Macaria,

This could be your lucky day!

The 'bubbles' video:

https://archive.org/details/CEP_00_032


This may be what you are looking for:

https://archive.org/details/casacsm_000014

Never forget the good ol' Internet Archive!

Be well.
panertos
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Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:39 pm

Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by panertos »

The Nuclear Hoax is a very important focal point in my personal research to find truth. Reading through this thread, it seems I was not alone. :D Let me try to add some things that I didn't see mentioned here but that might interest you.
Next to the unfocused marketing material they made when they did the "tests".

Otto Hahn

This man is almost erased from history, and his work is often attributed to Lise Meitner, who was likely just an assistant. What I find very interesting is that Hahn was a chemist and viewed the reaction from a chemistry perspective. Otto Hahn first demonstrated the phenomenon of nuclear fission in 1938, but he is rarely fully credited for this. It makes me doubt the full nuclear narrative. Aren't we just seeing a chemical reaction here? Two elements reacting and unleashing energy?

Operation Epsilon
After WW2, many scientists were detained in Operation Epsilon. For example, Hahn was held at Farm Hall in England along with other nuclear scientists. What happened here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Epsilon

Frédéric Joliot-Curie
Joliot-Curie and his collaborators, Hans von Halban and Lew Kowarski, realized it was possible to create a self-sustaining chain reaction using natural uranium and heavy water (deuterium oxide, D2O) as a moderator. They filed a patent for their design in April 1939. This work laid the foundation for nuclear reactor development.

What we see is that all over Europe, people were working on this, in separate universities, cooperating but also competing. Some key names like Hahn and Joliot we almost never hear about.

After WW2, it seems all this research was politicized. Many of these people got high-paying jobs as "head of the national authority" and such. They later supported NGOs saying nuclear weapons "proliferation" had to stop.

I find this intriguing - nerds in a lab having fun understanding stuff become spokespeople to "stop the bomb." I really wonder what happened in Operation Epsilon and the years after WW2.

Interestingly, the Manhattan Project consisted almost solely of Jews - Oppenheimer, Bethe, Feynman, Peierls, Bloch, Frisch, von Neumann, Wigner, Franck, Abelson, Zinn, Weisskopf, Rosen, Frankel, Szilárd, Rabinowitch, Rotblat, Hall, Greenglass, Placzek, Weinberg, Goudsmit, Anderson, Olum, Feld.

Do your own research, it's fascinating. Also interesting is that major scientists like Hahn and Joliot, who did the initial groundbreaking research, were not part of this group. The Manhattan Project seems more like an action hero movie (blowing up characters to huge proportions) than reality.

Also, Hahn doubted an uncontrolled chain reaction would be possible, which I think is the reality of the matter.

The math is also interesting. 1 gram of Uranium (a fingernail) supposedly has as much explosive energy as 17,000KG of explosives. I don't believe this uncontrolled reaction is possible.


full link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t39EpZxjtsQ
This movie shows some TNT explosions. Do you believe 1 fingernail can explode stronger than the biggest explosion in this movie?

What I also find interesting, when 17000kg of TNT explodes CO2 is generated (loads of air leading to shockwave) when 1 gram of Uranium explodes at max the solid matter can turn into a gas, right? Let's say it works like that, how much gas can come from 1 gram of solid Uranium? Just a little bit of very hot Uranium gas?

Geopolitically, nuclear energy also threatens the US. Kazakhstan has the largest global reserves. Control over oil and gas has been the backbone of the Western empire, like an international tax with prices/taxes controlled by the West. The shift to nuclear would change the balance of power. The "energy revolution" we see today is just the same, it's basically increasing scarcity again of energy, so the international tax can be paid. (Scarcity is essential to maintain power)

These are some of the reasons the nuclear weapons narrative is crucial for those in power today.

I think energy is not scarce, it's artificially made scarce.

The longer I dive into this topic, the more ridiculous it has become, I even went to visit Chernobyl, and found out that that after the event in the 80s, 3 reactors kept working for 10 more years, with employees going there every day, 100s of meters from the original explosion. No problems at all.

Also visited Hiroshima and found a modern Japanese city without any radiation or sick people. I found a holocaust style museum though with melted glass and pulverised people which turned to shadows on a wall.

So many things are off in this original narrative, geopolitically, chemically. And then we see the constant pushing of the "bomb" narrative, nuclear danger, like this summer with the Oppenheimer movie, it's all the same propaganda play, the endless repeating, the repackaging, same story, different faces, etc etc. As we see in the holocaust. And the cold war. And we saw in Corona, in the Ukraine today.

I conclude nuclear bombs are a hoax, nuclear reactors are also clouded with mysteriousness, makes me also doubt what's going on there, but knowing that France gets 80% of their energy from Nuclear and the amount of other plants they have would never be enough I can not come up with a right sounding theory that would say "nuclear power" is a hoax.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_p ... France.svg

So I think in a controlled setting over large amounts of time, which aligns with the researches done by Hahn before the large US propaganda war on nuclear, energy can come free in the form of heat. That means only in steam engine like facilities (water cookers essentially) we can generate electricity.

Things I really wonder about, how many people knows about the nuclear bomb hoax on top level? And why doesn't Iran come out and say: "Quit this hoax?"

Clouded with questions, but I'm 99% certain the nuclear bomb is a total lie. Just a great propaganda tool to create fear in the population, to get money, and instill fear in enemies, to gain military pride (we are the strongest country in the world)

The more you think about it, it's really a wonder they can pull these kind of tricks on a population of billions.

All these larger than life stories. We need to believe in stuff that can only happen in our imagination of which we have 0 proof with our own hands and eyes. And believe that our rulers like Gods can control this.

It shows modern society is a faith. And we need to believe in the supernatural power of our rulers and scientists. That they can kill us when they want and heal us when they want.

What if these elites are just a bunch of losers with an aggrandized image of themselves?

I'm so done with this constant honouring of scientists, rulers and billionaires. And I think these lies really harm the souls of billions putting their faith in those that don't deserve it.
panertos
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by panertos »

I'd like to share an insightful piece with you all:
https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-or ... atom-bomb/

This compelling essay, penned by George Orwell in October 1945, the author of "1984", delves into the geopolitical ramifications of the atomic bomb.
When James Burnham wrote The Managerial Revolution it seemed probable to many Americans that the Germans would win the European end of the war, and it was therefore natural to assume that Germany and not Russia would dominate the Eurasian land mass, while Japan would remain master of East Asia. This was a miscalculation, but it does not affect the main argument. For Burnham’s geographical picture of the new world has turned out to be correct. More and more obviously the surface of the earth is being parcelled off into three great empires, each self-contained and cut off from contact with the outer world, and each ruled, under one disguise or another, by a self-elected oligarchy. The haggling as to where the frontiers are to be drawn is still going on, and will continue for some years, and the third of the three super-states – East Asia, dominated by China – is still potential rather than actual. But the general drift is unmistakable, and every scientific discovery of recent years has accelerated it.

We were once told that the aeroplane had “abolished frontiers”; actually it is only since the aeroplane became a serious weapon that frontiers have become definitely impassable. The radio was once expected to promote international understanding and co-operation; it has turned out to be a means of insulating one nation from another. The atomic bomb may complete the process by robbing the exploited classes and peoples of all power to revolt, and at the same time putting the possessors of the bomb on a basis of military equality. Unable to conquer one another, they are likely to continue ruling the world between them, and it is difficult to see how the balance can be upset except by slow and unpredictable demographic changes.
Orwell's essay delves deep into the atomic bomb, viewing it not just as a weapon, but as a tool capable of segmenting the world into distinct power blocs, and within those blocs amplifying the divide between the rulers and the ruled. While Orwell hints at this, it's Burnham who more directly foreshadows the impending "Cold War" era.
panertos
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Re: THE NUKE HOAX

Unread post by panertos »

I'd also like to draw your attention to the events surrounding the Potsdam Conference, which connect the atomic bomb, and the onset of the Cold War, a new world order, the final destruction of Japan, a new propaganda.

Allegedly the first atomic bomb test, code-named "Trinity," was conducted on July 16, 1945, in the New Mexico desert. The very next day after the Trinity test, on July 17, the Potsdam Conference commenced. Stalin, Truman, and Churchill convened for nearly three weeks to deliberate on the postwar world. On July 16 Truman was in Potsdam already.

On July 26, the Potsdam Declaration was issued, demanding Japan's unconditional surrender. (Truman, Stalin and Churchill were all there) Japan declined the terms on July 29. During the Potsdam conference Japan was constantly bombed. While the conference was still in session, the US dropped "atomic bomb" on Hiroshima on August 6. Two days later, on August 8, the USSR declared war on Japan and initiated an invasion of Manchuria. On August 9, a second atomic bomb was unleashed on Nagasaki. Japan formally capitulated on August 15, 1945.

It's noteworthy that Truman was present at the Potsdam Conference both during the inaugural atomic test and the bombing of Hiroshima. This timing showcased the burgeoning alliance's military prowess on the global stage, underscoring the dominance of the US, Russia, and the UK.

Furthermore, Potsdam symbolized the dividing of the world into two major power blocs: the Allies (comprising the UK and US) and the Soviet side. This division was further entrenched by the ensuing "Cold War."

Here are some suggestions to improve the grammar and flow:

I was unaware that Potsdam, the three leaders, the "atomic bomb," and the divided global power all converged within a mere three weeks.

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall, as newfound joint propaganda (the atomic bomb) shaped a new world order founded on grandiose military deception. This laid the groundwork for the coming fictional space race and the Cold War. Germany was broken, and now Japan too, despite notions just two years prior that Japan and Germany would be the new dominant global powers.

As Germany was completely devastated, Japan was similarly decimated through the joint operation of the allies. Brought to their knees, kicked in the head, stomped on hundreds of times over and hundreds of thousands killed.

The leaders conjured this fabricated mega-weapon ostensibly held solely by them against the world.

One can imagine the conversation:

"Germany is defeated, so what do we do about Japan?" All the while, during Potsdam, Japan endured constant aerial raids of thousands of bombers.

The war had to be won, and a new narrative written for newly shaped global society lead by the new powers.

The king is dead, long live the king!

Utterly fascinating.
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