MK ultra and neurological remote control

[fbenario]

you have to wonder if and when MK-ultra is even needed to get people to swallow bullshit.

I agree that you don't need any mind control (other than garden-variety TV and an upbringing in American Exceptionalism) to get the sheeple to believe bullshit stories about enemies - but you sure do need mind control to get Mark David Chapman to shoot Lennon, and Sirhan Sirhan to shoot RFK, and both say afterwards they have no memory at all of doing it.

[hoi.polloi]

you have to wonder if and when MK-ultra is even needed to get people to swallow bullshit.

I agree that you don't need any mind control (other than garden-variety TV and an upbringing in American Exceptionalism) to get the sheeple to believe bullshit stories about enemies - but you sure do need mind control to get Mark David Chapman to shoot Lennon, and Sirhan Sirhan to shoot RFK, and both say afterwards they have no memory at all of doing it.

I see. But is it possible these people are pathological killers who are good at lying to people? Or patsies? Is mind-programming the only explanation here?

I know the CIA is batty enough to desire mind control of the entire populace but let us postulate this sort of thing existed in the 1980's. So then what level is the technology at today? And why haven't we seen it being used? If it is an enormous secret that one murderer got exposed as a mind-control victim, why haven't we seen any conspiracy stories about armies shooting themselves because the USA beamed mind-control rays onto their victims?

Or - if it is a technology that can only be applied to a selected and trained victim or Manchurian Candidate or the like, what is the difference between one of these people and a "normal" person?

What are we saying MK-ultra actually is and what might be the reason and evidence for the level one thinks it is at?

A detailed response would be appreciated.

[fbenario]

I see your point, and I may have spoken too strongly about something I know nothing about. I guess I find the existence of hypnosis believable enough to conclude that the CIA might have figured out to hypnotize patsies to the point where they could kill someone famous, and afterwards truthfully have no memory of doing it. That just doesn't strike me as so outlandish that it doesn't exist as a believable concept. Whether we call any CIA program like this Ultra doesn't really matter, I wouldn't think.

[fred]

Your patsy doesn't really need to do anything but stand around and act confused and a little bit crazy while the smoking gun with his fresh fingerprints sits on the sidewalk for the police detective.

Everybody has heard of roofies, or a Mickey Finn. A lot of MKUltra-type research was into mundane drug applications like that. Basically you can have a professional hitman of the garden variety shoot the target, and all you need the MKUltra stuff for is to have some likely suspect who's kind of crazy but maybe not so crazy that he couldn't have committed the murder present at the scene of the crime.

You don't need to use mind control to make a competent assassin, it's more useful for producing a plausible suspect that can be dropped off at the crime scene.

If I wanted to burn down some building and I had access to institutionalized mental patients, say through my job in a VA psych ward, I might look for a mildly retarded schizophrenic patient with a history of setting fire. With help from friends it would not be terribly difficult to use a competent arsonist to set the fire, and then drop off the crazy guy at the scene, sedated out of his mind so he stays there until the police arrive, and with a bunch of illegal drugs and receipts for fire-starting materials and maybe a diary talking about how much he hates whatever building he supposedly burned down in his back pocket.

If you want to blow up a building, just call Halliburon or XE or whatever they call themselves now. The mind control stuff is just so you can blame it on some poor crazy person. Just my 2 cents.

[fbenario]

I'm posting this in case anyone wants to read the CIA memos on hypnotism and Manchurian Candidates, not to start the argument about the plausibility of MK Ultra again.

"Easier to hypnotize large groups of people than individuals"? No f**king kidding.

"Docs Detail CIA’s Cold War Hypnosis Push

Two memos from 1954 and 1955 dredged up by Cryptome show the CIA thinking through post-hypnotic suggestion in extensive, credulous detail. How, for instance, to pass a secret message to a field operative without danger of interception?
Encode it in a messenger’s brain, an undisclosed author wrote in 1954, so he’ll have “no memory whatsoever in the waking state as to the nature and contents of the message.”
...
The agency’s mind-control experts gave up some helpful tips, according to the 1955 memo. It’s easier “to hypnotize large numbers of people” than individuals” — alas, there’s no useful elaboration on that point — and in no circumstance can the hypnotizer fail to get a subject to snap out of his trance.
...
The CIA’s aborted experiments in hypnosis are long-documented. (There was a pretty good National Geographic Channel exploration of them not long ago.) Its impulses to master the human mind led to the mass LSD tests called MK-ULTRA, which became the subject of acrimonious congressional inquiries.

And three years ago, the CIA’s document dump of its so-called “Crown Jewels” of decades-old secrets went into further detail about its hypnotism fetish."

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/12/cia-hypnosis/

Here are the two CIA memos.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/45949511/CIA-Hypnotism-1954

http://www.scribd.com/doc/45949553/CIA-Hypnotism-1955

[hoi.polloi]

Admittedly fascinating that it is easier to hypnotize mass numbers of people rather than individuals. I hope they'd go into that in more detail, but it would probably just confirm what we are already know. Peer pressure is enough for people to believe the physically impossible. Such as aluminum wide-bodied aircraft effortlessly piercing enormous steel structures and causing them to collapse.

[Dcopymope]

They give us all these clues to keep us running in circles. Beyond the footage, there is no evidence of anything hitting the towers, so there is no need to hypothesize about missiles being used simply because some "eye witnesses" claim they thought they heard and saw one, and based off of one very dubious audio clip. Electronic equipment was jammed by EMP weaponry and the attack happened in an area with nothing but tall buildings which completely obscured everyone’s view, no missiles or drones of any kind were needed. In my opinion, the only place where we could legitimately hypothesize of any kind of projectile weaponry being used is at the Pentagon where there is open field and hundreds of surveillance cameras. Keep in mind that they also have voice to skull technology where they can easily beam sounds and even images of anything they wish directly into your mind. This is not science fiction, it is old technology that has been used for decades by governments and is now used in billboards in New York City among other places.

New Voice to Skull Technology Freaks Out New Yorkers

We're going to have a lot more people tagged as "schizophrenic" as time goes along because of this technology.

[hoi.polloi]

it is old technology that has been used for decades by governments and ...

This sounds like a belief rather than a proven idea, but let's discuss that in another thread - maybe something labeled "Voice to Skull Projections" or something.

However, I agree with your idea that there wasn't necessarily any need for a real projectile.

[hoi.polloi]

[ADMIN: this text picks up on conversation from another thread, as the "mind control" thing was getting somewhat off-topic there: http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f= ... 7#p2355967 ]

it is old technology that has been used for decades by governments and ...

This sounds like a belief rather than a proven idea, but let's discuss that in another thread - maybe something labeled "Voice to Skull Projections" or something.

However, I agree with your idea that there wasn't necessarily any need for a real projectile.

It seems that people have really short memory. I gave links showing they had this tech a long time ago in the Japan Earthquake thread. In fact, this very technology that is being sold to us today as if its new was actually shown to the public on CNN.

CNN Electromagnetic Frequency Weapons from 1985 Part 1

CNN Electromagnetic Frequency Weapons from 1985 Part 2

Electromagnetic Frequency Mind Control Weapons

Here is what Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote in his book called "Between Two Ages", published in 1970:

"In addition, it is possible--and tempting--to exploit for strategic-political purposes the fruits of research on the brain and on human behavior....Accurately timed, artificially excited electronic strokes could lead to a pattern of oscillations that produce relatively high power levels over certain regions of the earth....In this way, one could develop a system that would seriously impair the brain performance of very large populations in selected regions over an extended period." - Pg. 57

Enough said here indeed.

Enough said? This is a very different claim from "beaming images" into people's minds.

Furthermore, the "holosonic" thing you mentioned in the New York article about street ads has nothing to do with images.

What is your game, Dcopymope? Do you not care about actual research? Are you thinking, "better safe than sorry" when you deliberately skew things to an opinion with no evidence?

Also, you frequently just link to articles without asking if they are real or not, then make a sweeping statement about what you think the message is. It's contrary to a lot of what we are trying to do on this board, and it's really obnoxious when you do this Alex Jones kind of thing. Please use your words more carefully.

[Dcopymope]

Enough said? This is a very different claim from "beaming images" into people's minds.

Furthermore, the "holosonic" thing you mentioned in the New York article about street ads has nothing to do with images.

What is your game, Dcopymope? Do you not care about actual research? Are you thinking, "better safe than sorry" when you deliberately skew things to an opinion with no evidence?

Also, you frequently just link to articles without asking if they are real or not, then make a sweeping statement about what you think the message is. It's contrary to a lot of what we are trying to do on this board, and it's really obnoxious when you do this Alex Jones kind of thing. Please use your words more carefully.

Sure, do I know if what is discussed in these articles is real or not? I can waste my time giving links to patents and give continual admissions from the perps themselves of its existence from as far back as the 60's showing the technology is real like I did with holographic technology in one thread as well as with HAARP, stuff that anyone can find just doing a five minute Google search. Beyond this, everything boils down to your own experiences, which I can give all day long, but it would be a waste of time. I was simply pointing this tech out in my thread in relation to how it may have been used on 9/11. To me, the use of voice to skull projection on 9/11 is a far more valid hypothesis than any kind of projectile weapon being used on the towers. There was no need to risk using a missile, drone, plane, or any real object when you can just beam the sound directly into the minds of an entire region.

[hoi.polloi]

Fine, but I still think disinformation is a possible explanation for many of the inventions supposedly "admitted" to by the government.

[pov603]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-14706864

Has anyone seen this guy above who 'draws in his sleep'?

I do not doubt that that is what he is alleged to do but I do wonder [long shot as it may be] whether this is a symptom of something else, especially as he refers to the hundreds of emails he gets from people with similar oddities?

[Unleashed]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-14706864

Has anyone seen this guy above who 'draws in his sleep'?

I do not doubt that that is what he is alleged to do but I do wonder [long shot as it may be] whether this is a symptom of something else, especially as he refers to the hundreds of emails he gets from people with similar oddities?

Whenever I come across stories like this, my tendency is to put it within a context that meshes with other similar phenomena. What does this have in common with, for instance, the RF experiments?
MKUltra experiments? Remote viewing? More than likely it would seem from his early age, this fellow was taken to psychiatrists. Those in turn would have referred him to "specialists". This would put him on "the radar" of people with agendas of manipulation.

I detect a difference of style with his drawings shown in this video clip. For instance, the Marilyn.
She is a well known meme among the manipulators. But, not so much on the minds of people of this man's generation, if you know what I mean.
He could be an experimental subject without his knowledge.

I would be curious whether his doctors were trained or affliated with The Tavistock Institute.
Likewise in America, there is a network of psychiatrists that turn up over and over when researching
past conspiracies, high profile murders and assassinations, and psy-ops.

In this instance, the man with dream art might not be useful in any way to use directly, but simply to hone and refine abilities to control actions of the mind through dreams. This is entirely speculation on my part, of course.

[pov603]

He has a website:

http://www.leehadwin.co/#!

It is a bit disappointing to find that his 'art' is for sale therefore in a devious way the Beeb are merely acting as an advertising platform for the guy [and inadvertently, I'm doing so too! ]
Anyway, take a look at some of his 'art' I find it pretty good, but there seems to be a massive amount of subliminal messaging going on with some of them.
It may just be an elaborate hoax which he is capitalising on, or as Unleashed mentioned, part of the practice for institutes with more sinister motives involving people we will either never hear about or who we will hear about when they become a 'perp'.

[Unleashed]

I also get the idea that there is a subliminal aspect. I was most intrigued with his piece appropriately entitled "23".