Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Historical insights & thoughts about the world we live in - and the social conditioning exerted upon us by past and current propaganda.
nonhocapito
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by nonhocapito »

hoi.polloi wrote:Fine thoughts all around, but it still doesn't answer whether Peak Oil is a real phenomenon that will happen (because of its artificial inducement or because oil truly is finite) or if it won't happen.

I was hoping for some speculation on the real science and research of it. We can say they are "using" Peak Oil or they created it in the first place, but those are radically different possibilities. If we know they want to control every significant phenomenon, it still doesn't answer whether oil is truly scarce or not.
But there are sources on the web about this. Research has been done, maybe we can start by taking that and considering it using a few useful links and quotes. Funny how if I enter 'the myth of peak oil' into google, the first entry I get is an article by Alex Jones & Paul Watson on the subject (dated 2005)... because one has to contradict oneself, I'll say that it has persuasive arguments into it... or at least arguments that fit into the peak-oil problem very well. Like the alexjonesian idea that the elites want "to control the world population through neo-feudalism by creating artificial scarcity". The only problem is the lack of support of more technical documents on the matter, provided we would be able to judge their veracity. Instead prevalence is given to newsmedia articles, and we all know how much manipulation and bias that method of 'research' can bring. The article is here: http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/peak_oil/index.htm

There are more, but most seem 'not so sure' as to what is the truth. I remember an article i read a while back that seemed to have better scientific arguments. I'll post it if i find it. If we all search the same thing in google, we are bound to find different things, so that's a good method.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by Gracist »

I think Peak Oil is a myth. Here is a good article I have read before on the subject that I just remembered because of this thread.

Intro:

Dave McGowan Newsletter #70

Beware the 'Peak Oil' Agenda

[Editor's Note: Dave McGowan deserves a Pulitzer for not only helping to unmask the Peak Oil scam, but also revealing the true colors of Michael Ruppert, the principle mole in charge of Peak Oil disinformation. Michael Ruppert calls his web site, "From the Wilderness (FTW), as if he's The Spy Who Came in From the Cold and is letting us 'civilians' in on the real deal in world politics. His rise to national recognition is a typical covert grooming job to establish Ruppert as one of the Good Guys of the internet world whose only interests are that of Truth, Justice, and Honor; the good cop who took on the nasty CIA Baddies in the LA drug wars and lost. I believe Ruppert, a former Los Angeles cop, was convicted in 1978 on drug related charges. Ruppert, of course, claims his conviction was a frame up in which he accuses Ted L. Gunderson, of all people, of having played a role in his 'set up'. It was Ruppert's false allegations against Ted (who had no idea who Michael Ruppert was in 1978 while Ted was the Bureau Chief of the FBI in Los Angeles) that started me to suspect that Ruppert wasn't as straight shooting as he wished the public to believe. Nonetheless, I was impressed with the quality of stories that Ruppert was writing in the late 90's and was willing to give him the benefit of doubt and cut him some slack when it came to his paranoia about Ted, but his continuing false allegations about Ted, next published in Nexus magazine, started to make me think that Ruppert may be working for somebody. Now that Ruppert has blown his cover completely by promoting the Peak Oil scam, there is no longer any doubt in my mind: Ruppert is a mole. Note these two brief paragraphs referring to Ruppert and Peak Oil excepted from Joe Vialls' article titled "Black Psyop at Russian School Controlled by Wall St." (http://joevialls.altermedia.info/myahud ... psyop.html)

"Though the "Peak Oil" scam currently being peddled by Mike Ruppert and others has absolutely no validity in global terms, it does make sense if viewed as deliberate Wall Street propaganda. The world as a whole has massive oil reserves on tap, with more continuing to flow from up from the earth's mantle, but American oil reserves cannot at present meet American demand, due primarily to a lack of investment in new domestic oil drilling and production infrastructure. Thus when Ruppert and others claim "The world is running out of oil", the accurate underlying truth of the matter is that "America alone is running out of oil".

The same holds true for the parallel propaganda claim that "World oil production had peaked, and can no longer keep pace with global energy requirements". In reality world oil production as a whole has not peaked, but the world as a whole is no longer prepared to provide America with one out of every two gallons of gasoline it refines every day of every year, especially not on the strength of worthless Federal Reserve promissory notes. Therefore this particular piece of 'Peak Oil' propaganda can be interpreted as meaning, "The world is no longer prepared to keep pace with, or provide, America's excessive energy requirements."..

Note too, that Dave has exposed Ruppert's bent towards eugenics. Ruppert embraces the notion of population reduction, but he just doesn't want to state publicly exactly how that 'goal' ought to be accomplished. Now what other group do we know about that is equally interested in population reduction and eugenics?

Finally, Dave has also nailed down the brainwashing inculcation by our covert manipulators of the passive acceptance of death as mundane. With kids, it's video games and movies. With adults, it's movies and TV; the promotion of a 'dog eat dog' mentality and 'survival of the fittest' as clearly promoted in all those TV brainwahing programs about Survival, the Weakest Link, Extreme This, Extreme That, Divorce Court, etc. The manipulation couldn't be more obvious. Why don't more people recognize it?... Ken]

Article found here: http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr70.html

More on this topic here: http://educate-yourself.org/cn/peakoilindex.shtml
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by Gracist »

I thought this one was good enough to post in full, hope that is okay. Emphasis added is mine.

Dave McGowan Newsletter #66

When 'Peak Oil' Met The 'West Nile Virus'

By Dave McGowan <[email protected]>
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/davemcgo ... ep04.shtml
September 2, 2004

I don't know how much press attention the story has gotten outside of the region, so to bring the potentially uninformed up to date, there has been a series of deaths in recent months in Southern California that have been attributed to the dreaded 'West Nile Virus.' According to the official party line, the virus is being spread by infected mosquitos, which are picking up the disease from infected birds.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that is very unlikely that 'West Nile Virus' actually exists as a specific, identifiable viral agent. And if it does exist, there is no evidence that it is pathogenic. As one illuminating post concludes, after reviewing the medical literature, "It is quite clear that West Nile Virus has never been purified, and that without purification not only is it impossible to say whether it is the cause of the disease that it is associated with, but it is impossible to say whether it even exists."
(http://www.mercola.com/2001/oct/3/west_nile_virus.htm)

Even if the virus does exist, and even if it is pathogenic, it seems very unlikely that it has been the cause of death in the Southern California cases. The ten purported victims were, overall, an elderly bunch, and most had preexisting health conditions. The oldest was 91; the average age of the ten was 75. No offense to the surviving family members of the deceased, but these weren't people who needed some exotic virus to finish them off; they were people with one foot in the grave and the other on the proverbial banana peel.

Not surprisingly, this alleged deadly outbreak has been seized upon as a pretext to further advance the police state, and to further blur the line between healthcare and law enforcement. Wholesale spraying of who-knows-what has become all the rage in some parts of town, and there has been talk of greatly expanding the police powers of county health officials, including granting them the power to enter upon any property, at any time, in search of any potential mosquito breeding grounds (as if it is possible to eliminate every drop of standing water in all of Los Angeles, Orange, and San Bernadino Counties). Next on the agenda will probably be another round of discussions about the need for mandatory vaccinations.

This is all pretty disturbing stuff, to be sure, but in this post-911 dystopia we live in, it is pretty much par for the course. As anyone with eyes and ears and a few brain cells in between has probably noticed, there are any number of disturbing things happening in the world these days. But the West Nile Virus story took a particularly troubling turn a couple weeks ago.

While idling watching some of NBC's stellar prime time Olympic coverage last Monday night, I happened to catch a brief teaser for the upcoming evening newscast in which it was announced that the 'West Nile Virus' had claimed another Southern California victim. The man was identified only as a "local political activist." Details, of course, would have to wait.

So ... I patiently waited through about two hours of NBC's "thought we were arrogant before? how do you like us now?" Olympic coverage, only to find, much to my chagrin, that when the nightly news finally rolled around, the story of the political activist cut down by 'West Nile Virus' had disappeared. I guess they couldn't fit it in around all the recaps of what they had just finished broadcasting.
So ... the next morning, I turned to the ever-vigilant Los Angeles Times to get the inside story, and ... nothing. Not a word. So I checked again the next day, and still found nothing. The day after that, I apparently did not read far enough into a report carrying the headline "Woman's Death May Be State's 10th W. Nile Fatality" to find what I was looking for. But I did find it when I conducted a web search a few days later. It was in the closing paragraph of the August 26 LA Times report:

Also on Tuesday, a 62-year-old Claremont man who died of complications from the virus was honored as a Green Party activist. Walter Sheasby, whose death from West Nile on Thursday was Los Angeles County's fourth, ran twice for the House of Representatives.

Anyone who has been closely following these newsletters in recent months should recognize the name Walter Sheasby. If not, then here's a reminder: Walter Contreras Sheasby was the gentleman who, late last year, penned a devastating exposé on the real backers of the 'Peak Oil' scam. In March of this year, I posted Sheasby's piece as my Newsletter #55 (http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr55.html). Here are a few of the more provocative snippets:

<snip>
In fact the coalition that is pushing for a radical new energy policy is largely composed of those who stand to benefit from a revival, not a phase out, of oil and gas development.
<snip>
"This much is known, Kenneth Deffeyes writes, "the loudest warnings about the predicted peak of world oil production came from Petroconsultants." In a late 1998 merger Petroconsultants became IHS Energy Group, a subsidiary of Information Handling Services Group (IHS Group), a diversified conglomerate owned by Holland America Investment Corp., IHS Group's immediate parent company, for the Thyssen-Bornemisza Group (TBG, Inc.). In the 1920s George Herbert Walker and his son-in-law, Prescott Bush, had helped the Thyssen dynasty finance its acquisitions through Union Banking Corp. and Holland-American Trading Corp.
<snip>
ASPO has Associate members like Halliburton and financial sponsors like Schlumberger.
<snip>

ASPO, of course, is the Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas, a group relentlessly promoted by the 'Peak Oil' crowd. Schlumberger has been described by Ruppert himself as the "world's premier oil drilling firm." And I think we all know who Halliburton is ... I mean, besides being a bedmate of the 'Peak Oil' promoters.

Sheasby had much more to say in his article and anyone who has not yet read it should definitely do so. Especially now that he's dead ... struck down by a nonexistent virus less than a year after exposing a massive scam known as 'Peak Oil.' Hmmm ....

In completely unrelated news, Dr. Thomas Gold, for years the West's most vocal proponent of the abiotic origins of hydrocarbons, dropped dead two months before Mr. Sheasby had a fatal encounter with a mosquito. One of Gold's heretical beliefs was that actual reserves of crude oil could be up to 100 times what the oil companies and oil-producing nations have claimed. The following is from a post-mortem published in the Telegraph this past June:

None of Gold's theories aroused as much anger as one he first outlined in 1980 and elaborated on in The Deep Hot Biosphere (1999): that "fossil" fuels such as gas, oil and coal are not fossil at all, as conventional wisdom holds, but produced by the constant upwelling of carbon-based compounds from deep below the earth's surface where they have been trapped since the formation of our planet 4.5 billion years ago. A corollary of this theory was that, far from facing an energy crisis, the world has a huge reservoir of deep non-biological natural gas that could meet its energy needs for thousands of years, but which orthodox petroleum geology says should not exist.

The theory earned the derision of the world's petrochemists, some of whom refused to appear on the same platform with Gold. But in 1985, to test his theory, Gold persuaded investors to drill for oil in an area of granite in central Sweden. By 1990, 12 tonnes of crude oil had been extracted - not enough to make extraction commercially viable, but an achievement which (assuming the oil had not somehow got into the granite via cracks, as some have suggested) ranks in the same league as getting blood from a stone.
(http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main ... db2501.xml)

I seem to remember the From the Wilderness team spending a considerable amount of time a couple years ago, in the aftermath of the Anthrax attacks, chasing a story about the mysterious deaths of a number of microbiologists. Since that proved so productive, I would like to suggest a new assignment for the team: looking into the mysterious deaths of leading 'Peak Oil' debunkers just as the 'Peak Oil' scam is picking up serious momentum. I think there might be a story there.

* * * * * * * * * *

A number of compelling 'Peak Oil' related postings have been brought to my attention in recent weeks. The most interesting of the bunch is reproduced here in its entirety, as it provides a good overview of the fossil fuel/abiotic petroleum debate for those readers who have arrived late in the game.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Abioge ... eum_origin
Abiogenic petroleum origin
The theory of abiogenic petroleum origin states that petroleum is produced by non-biological processes deep in the Earth. This stands in contrast to the more widely held view that it is created from the fossilization of ancient organic matter. According to this theory, petroleum is formed by non-biological reactions deep in the Earth's crust. The constituent precursors of petroleum (mainly methane) are commonplace and it is possible that appropriate conditions exist for oil to be formed deep within the Earth.

Although this theory has support by a large minority of geologists in Russia, where it was intensively developed in the 1950s and 1960s, it has only recently begun to receive attention in the West, where the biogenic theory is still believed by the vast majority of petroleum geologists. Although it was originally denied that abiogenic hydrocarbons exist at all on earth, this is now admitted by Western geologists. The orthodox position now is that while abiogenic hydrocarbons exist, they are not produced in commercially significant quantities, so that essentially all hydrocarbons that are extracted for use as fuel or raw materials are biogenic.

A variation of the abiogenic theory includes alteration by microbes similar to those which form the basis of the ecology around deep hydrothermal vents.

One prediction of this theory is that other planets of the Solar system or their moons have large petroleum oceans, either from hydrocarbons present at the formation of the Solar system, or subsequent chemical reactions.

That this theory is receiving increasing attention from Western geologists is indicated by the fact that the American Association of Petroleum Geologists scheduled a conference (http://www.mail-archive.com/fogri@iagi. ... 00802.html) to meet in Vienna in July 2004 entitled "Origin of Petroleum—Biogenic and/or Abiogenic and Its Significance in Hydrocarbon Exploration and Production". The conference had to be canceled, however, due to financial considerations. Instead, AAPG will be holding a one-day session on the topic at the June 2005 annual meeting in Calgary, Alberta.
Comparison of theories

There are two theories on the origin of carbon fuels: the biogenic theory and the abiogenic theory. The two theories have been intensely debated since the 1860s, shortly after the discovery of widespread petroleum. There are several differences between the biogenic and abiogenic theories.
Raw material

* Biogenic: remnants of buried plant and animal life.
* Abiogenic: deep carbon deposits from when the planet formed or subducted material.

Events before conversion

* Biogenic: Large quantities of plant and animal life were buried. Sediments accumulating over the material slowly compressed it and covered it. At a depth of several hundred meters, catagenesis converts it to bitumens and kerogens.
* Abiogenic: At depths of hundreds of kilometers, carbon deposits are a mixture of hydrocarbon molecules which leak upward through the crust. Much of the material becomes methane.

Conversion to petroleum and methane

* Biogenic: Catagenesis occurs as the depth of burial increases and the heat and pressure breaks down kerogens to form petroleum.
o Significant advances in the understanding of chemical processes and organic reactions and improved knowledge about the effects of heating and pressure during burial and diagenesis of organic sediments support biogenic processes.
* Abiogenic: When the material passes through temperatures at which extremophile microbes can survive some of it will be consumed and converted to heavier hydrocarbons.

Formation of coal

* Biogenic: Coal is organic material which was buried and compressed but did not undergo catagenesis into kerogens.
* Abiogenic: Coal is organic material which was filled with hydrocarbons which seeped into the deposit. This can happen on the surface, such as in a swamp with methane and petroleum seeps.

Evidence supporting abiogenic theory
Cold planetary formation

In the late 19th century it was believed that the Earth was extremely hot, possibly completely molten, during its formation. One reason for this was that a cooling, shrinking, planet was necessary in order to explain geologic changes such as mountain formation. A hot planet would have caused methane and other hydrocarbons to be outgassed and oxidized into carbon dioxide and water, thus there would be no carbon remaining under the surface. Planetary science now recognizes that formation was a relatively cool process until radioactive materials accumulate together deep in the planet.
Known hydrocarbon sources

Carbonaceous chondrite meteorites contain carbon and hydrocarbons. Heated under pressure, this material would release hydrocarbon fluids in addition to creating solid carbon deposits. Further, at least ten bodies in our solar system are known to contain at least traces of hydrocarbons. In 2004, the Cassini spacecraft confirmed methane clouds and hydrocarbons on Titan, a moon of Saturn.
Unusual deposits

Hydrocarbon deposits have been found in places which are poorly explained by biogenic theory. Some oil fields are being refilled from deep sources, although this does not rule out a deep biogenic source rock. The White Tiger field in Vietnam and many wells in Russia, in which oil and natural gas are being produced from granite basement rock. As this rock is believed to have no oil-producing sediments under it, the biogenic theory requires the oil to have leaked in from source rock dozens of kilometers away.
Deep microbes

Microbial life has been discovered 4.2 kilometers deep in Alaska and 5.2 kilometers deep in Sweden.
Evidence supporting biogenic theory

It was once argued that the abiogenic theory does not explain the detection of various biomarkers in petroleum. Microbial consumption does not yet explain some trace chemicals found in deposits. Materials which suggest certain biological processes include tetracyclic diterpane, sterane, hopane, and oleanane. Although extremophile microorganisms exist deep underground and some metabolize carbon, some of these biomarkers are only known so far to be created in surface plants. This shows that some petroleum deposits may have been in contact with ancient plant residues, though it does not show that either is the origin of the other.
See also

* Fossil fuel

External links

* Fuel's Paradise (Wired) (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.07/gold_pr.html)
* The Mystery of Eugene Island 330 (Science Frontiers) (http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf124/sf124p10.htm)
* The Origin of Methane (and Oil) in the Crust of the Earth (Thomas Gold) (http://people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/usgs.html)
* Gas Resources Corporation collection of documents (http://www.gasresources.net/index.htm)
* Abiotic oil debate (http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/peakoil1.html)
*
Gas Origin Theories to be Studied (American Association of Petroleum Geologists) (http://www.aapg.org/explorer/2002/11nov/abiogenic.cfm)
*
Abiogenic formation of alkanes in the Earth's crust as a minor source for global hydrocarbon reservoirs (Nature) (http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage. ... 2a_fs.html)
* Geobiology @ MIT about biomarkers

* * * * * * * * * *

Who would have guessed that there were once dinosaurs on one of Saturn's moons?! And on a number of other bodies within our solar system?! Those dinosaurs really got around, I guess. Apparently, they were a little ahead of us humans in the space exploration department.

Of course, even bought-and-paid-for Western petroleum geologists have shied away from arguing that our solar system was once teeming with organic life forms. Indeed, it is just this sort of irrefutable evidence that has forced Western scientists to reluctantly acknowledge the existence of abiotic hydrocarbons:

Although it was originally denied that abiogenic hydrocarbons exist at all on earth, this is now admitted by Western geologists. The orthodox position now is that while abiogenic hydrocarbons exist, they are not produced in commercially significant quantities, so that essentially all hydrocarbons that are extracted for use as fuel or raw materials are biogenic.

What has happened, in other words, is that a huge lie perpetrated by the West became completely unworkable, and so a new, and even more absurd, lie was substituted in its place. Sound familiar?

What the new lie says is this: "Sure, we'll acknowledge, if forced to, that abiotic hydrocarbons exist -- and not just here on earth, but throughout our solar system and likely beyond it. But that really has nothing whatsoever to do with the hydrocarbons that we actually use here on planet earth. Those hydrocarbons are different, you see, than the more common abiotic hydrocarbons, even though they have the exact same chemical structure. So even though we have the more common abiotic hydrocarbons, we don't use them because ... uhmm, that just wouldn't be economically prudent. Fortunately then, we also have these very special hydrocarbons that are only available here on planet Earth, because ... well, because we're special, that's why."

Those special hydrocarbons are, of course, what are commonly referred to as 'fossil fuels' -- and what Mike Ruppert recently described as "the oil God placed on this planet." God, being blessed with perfect foresight, I presume, must have thought to himself: "I'm giving them a planet awash in hydrocarbons, but I don't know if those hydrocarbons will be economically viable, so just to be on the safe side - and because I can, being omnipotent and all - I think I'll also give them some special hydrocarbons. But only enough to last a century or two. After that, they're on their own."
:lol:

* * * * * * * * * *

Before closing, I am wondering if anyone else finds it curious that the landmark "Origin of Petroleum" conference that was to be held this past July had to be canceled due to lack of funding, unlike both the 2003 and 2004 international 'Peak Oil' conferences, which don't seem to have been hampered by any funding problems. I guess it's easier to get financial backing when you are only presenting one side of the story -- and presenting it as absolute fact. And it probably also helps to have friends with deep pockets, like Halliburton and the Thyssen Group.

Dave McGowan
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by fbenario »

nonhocapito wrote:whereas 40 years ago they were winning all across the board.
They were winning across the board until Simon released the first version of September Clues. Until that point, while humanity might have questioned the moon hoax, or JFK or MLK deaths, they didn't question their oh-so-beloved mainstream media.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by Heiwa »

Actually ‘live‘ crude oil (?) coming up from a 1000+ meters deep oil well consists of hydrocarbon gas and solids at high pressure and temperature and plenty of water! In order for this mix to become real crude oil you have to kill it, i.e. reduce the pressure/temperature to ambient ones and then remove the gas and the water. And then you have your crude oil! The water/gas can be reinjected into the well or you can use the gas for whatever. In some wells there is no solids at all – just gas (and water). Imagine that. That the origin of the crude oil or gas (and the water!) should be biologic and 100’s of million years old is a strange idea IMO.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

The dead dinosaurs and dead forests theory seems very slippery and speculative so far.

On the other hand, when we have "evidence" for extraplanetary hydrocarbons like this:
Further, at least ten bodies in our solar system are known to contain at least traces of hydrocarbons. In 2004, the Cassini spacecraft confirmed methane clouds and hydrocarbons on Titan, a moon of Saturn.
... while the Cassini spacecraft is likely an ESA/NASA hoax, and this:
The world as a whole has massive oil reserves on tap, with more continuing to flow from up from the earth's mantle
... while the 'Peak Oil' proponents (seemingly) rightfully argue that this vague unsubstantiated statement is repeated against the idea of Peak Oil over and over ...

to me, it still seems like a vague idea that we have "infinite" supplies of oil.

I respect a lot of Dave McGowan's writings - definitely. And I am not challenging his sense of the matter, but so far it seems he has only detected a big money/power/social struggle for control of this information - whatever it is. And that is no surprise.

Perhaps the truth is that we are meant to be divided on a controversial issue - with both the "Peak Oil" proponents and the "Infinite Oil" proponents getting funding from the same monied interests. That seems very much like the way things are normally done.

Yet, a part of me wonders still - even if it doesn't matter as much as the influence of these monied interests - which story is closer to the truth?

This site seems to delve into the issue: http://www.oilscenarios.info/

Rating different opinions on the matter and linking to articles that argue each point ...

Here is some evidence for more oil though: http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2009/3028/

(I found this in a rather sloppily argued, and dumb blog named "peak oil debunked" here: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID ... 1931105819 )

And also isn't it suspicious that WikiLeaks "leaked" an article about Peak Oil in Saudi Arabia? (ha ha)
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/05/0 ... t-got-away

And this official story sees the Peak Oil proponent I mentioned before ("Matthew Simmons") losing a bet with a Peak Oil skeptic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simmons-Tierney_bet
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by Gracist »

hoi.polloi wrote:
The world as a whole has massive oil reserves on tap, with more continuing to flow from up from the earth's mantle
... while the 'Peak Oil' proponents (seemingly) rightfully argue that this vague unsubstantiated statement is repeated against the idea of Peak Oil over and over ...

to me, it still seems like a vague idea that we have "infinite" supplies of oil.


Perhaps the truth is that we are meant to be divided on a controversial issue - with both the "Peak Oil" proponents and the "Infinite Oil" proponents getting funding from the same monied interests. That seems very much like the way things are normally done.
I don't see how the statement that oil reserves are flowing up from the mantle is vague and unsubstantiated. If you look you can find info on oil fields that were used up refilling in the Gulf of Mexico and other places. I'll try to find and post some examples that I've read about before but here is one: http://educate-yourself.org/cn/oilfield ... pr05.shtml

Also, I agree that often people are divided on issues by design but what do you think would be the point of doing that with this issue in particular?
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Kennicutt, a faculty member at Texas A&M University, said it is now clear that gas and oil are coming into the known reservoirs very rapidly in terms of geologic time.
Texas A&M - the quasi-military university that Robert Gates loves so much? That makes me suspicious of the research already, no matter how illustrious the story.

Here is the original - http://www.rense.com/general63/refil.htm

I am not saying what they declare is impossible - only that it hasn't been spelled out as "cheap, accessible oil" as the Alaska wildlife refuge has. Some methane, natural gas, oil and such escaping into the Gulf of Mexico ... is interesting. Does it mean "Peak Oil" as a whole is unsubstantiated? (It does raise the question of what the BP hoax was all about - inventing a spill or controlling information about what goes on in the Gulf?)
would be the point of doing that with this issue in particular?
I assume that, after discussing current affairs in their small groups like Bildeberg, etc. they devise a number of "upcoming topics" that they need to control and monitor. Oil being the main cheap energy source of almost all public life, it would be in their interest to surround such a controversial issue quickly and gain from whichever way it ends up heading.

I believe they do a lot of "topic surfing" rather than outright planning every single event like the omnipotent powers they wish they were.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by Gracist »

hoi.polloi wrote:

Texas A&M - the quasi-military university that Robert Gates loves so much? That makes me suspicious of the research already, no matter how illustrious the story.

Here is the original - http://www.rense.com/general63/refil.htm


I assume that, after discussing current affairs in their small groups like Bildeberg, etc. they devise a number of "upcoming topics" that they need to control and monitor. Oil being the main cheap energy source of almost all public life, it would be in their interest to surround such a controversial issue quickly and gain from whichever way it ends up heading.

I believe they do a lot of "topic surfing" rather than outright planning every single event like the omnipotent powers they wish they were.
Good points. That seems like a reasonable motive for causing a debate. In a way it seems to me to be difficult to reach a conclusion just because I'm suspicious of research coming from anywhere "official." I do find the Peak Oil theory to be the most suspicious still though and think that it is probably further from the truth than abiotic non-finite oil reserves.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

Unread post by hoi.polloi »

Yes, I guess I am suspicious of both ideas.

The idea that oil is abiotic is suspicious to me because it's so convenient. The idea that oil is finite is suspicious to me because we get it from the Earth and for all we know, oil is the blood of the Earth and it is as plentiful as anything else is below the mantle.

I definitely agree that the idea that we are reaching "Peak Oil" is suspicious. To me it is because I think the issue could be solved if we were given more information about it - and so why would it have to be so secretive and why are there so many bizarre, suspicious characters behind the "Peak Oil" theory? Is it because it is crazy or they just want to make it look crazy? (Like how Nico Haupt makes 9/11's "no plane theory" and then makes it look unappealing at the same time.)

Anyway, since we rely on experts to tell us about how oil works, I am going to start asking scientists I know personally and post information about it here, since I am so suspicious of the powers that be about this "matter", so to speak.

What is oil? I want more resources on how it has been proven to be a self-replenishing substance.

(On a personal note, I don't believe that proving oil is self-replenishing is necessarily an excuse for us to use it, especially irresponsibly, but it would definitely seem more justifiable if we could prove that it was part of our natural system rather than a foreign element that could destroy us and destroy the environment that keeps us alive.)
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

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hoi.polloi wrote:(On a personal note, I don't believe that proving oil is self-replenishing is necessarily an excuse for us to use it, especially irresponsibly, but it would definitely seem more justifiable if we could prove that it was part of our natural system rather than a foreign element that could destroy us and destroy the environment that keeps us alive.)
Totally agree. I've always hated hearing people, usually smug, self-righteous Euros, tar and insult ALL Americans as selfish bastards, because SOME people choose to live 'too far' from their job so they can have a bigger house, and to avoid inner-city life/problems (which is just code for hatred, racism, and intolerance against Blacks). At the most basic human level, a car and cheap gas equals freedom. The freedom to go where you please, to live where you please. In other words, to exercise autonomy over your own life in as many ways as possible.

Having said all that, I despise the ease with which most Americans are wasteful, and can't even be bothered to recycle household garbage/trash.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

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whatsgoingon wrote:I am not an oil geologist. But I think Hubbert was correct. He said Texas would peak in oil production in 1970 and it did. The predictions for peaks in Mexico, North Sea, Alaska, etc. have all turned out to be true so far.

Since the price of oil spiked to as high as $147 / bbl and no new production came online I think we are left with a quandry. Oil was unable to be produced in the face of high prices. It is historic. The resolution of that price of oil was the housing collapse -- where folks could not pay bills due to rising fuel and food costs.

Hubbert said in 1956 that the world would peak in half a century. And here we are 50 years later and the IEA has admitted that the world peaked in conventional crude production in 2006.

Now we have trickery and fakery in stats and not in pictures with oil. The game of images is played on people everyday. Look. They report the WTI price of oil ~$80/bbl but that only serves 3% of the oil market. The real price of oil is Brent and that is well over $100/bbl. They are not reporting that higher price.

So we have to assume the media is under-reporting the oil problem. The Masters want oil to go unnoticed since it is so critical to our infrastructure. It is the major energy source and very critical as a liquid fuel.

I personally think all our problems relate to the oil problem and half of the media fakery we discuss here relates to the physical reality of oil. If they could airbrush 100000000 new bbls of oil a day -- they would. I think the fakery is designed to achieve goals of protecting international supplies of oil while deluding the public that terrorists are making oil markets unstable. But really the issue is perhaps that we are seeing a decline in cheap crude oil -- a real problem for the capitalist growth paradigm and perhaps an explanation for why financials are in such terrible shape.
OK. This is an interesting going "back to reality". Maybe you are right, this would also explain fake oil spills such as the gulf of Mexico, to support the idea of scarcity or difficulty with oil. Same goes for wars like Libya, then, whose oil resources were perhaps already under control (and weren't those in Iraq as well, if we only wanted it?) It also explains in the simpler way, after all, why the last decades we all have been so busy experimenting alternatives to oil, although with little success.
But -- on the other hand everybody knows oil is a problem. If they want it to go unnoticed as a problem they are doing a terrible job, since it is all people talk about. We all feel the effects; everyone thinks wars are really for oil; we pay the price, after all; we know it is valuable. Oil has been at the center of any economic discussion for the last five decades or more. Everyone is worried or scared about it one way or the other, which could be interpreted, after all, as a classic trademark of fakery. The problem is really to put under discussion all the major reasons of concern that have been played on humanity, to see what there is really to them, since fakery and fear seem to go so often hand in hand. --But I really have no decided opinion on this issue, and your arguments sounded to me certainly valid.
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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

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Re: Peak Oil and The End of Cheap Energy (and the Internet?)

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Thank you, whatsgoingon.

I think what you say makes a lot of sense and it is food for my thought.
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